Where are the bargains?

I don`t believe Sir Alex was on an ego trip when he splashed the cash. Remember that in the not so distant past, various people (connected with Manchester United or not) were having digs at this fantastic club for `sniffing around the bargain bins` while being a club with vast resources.

I believe that what Sir Alex was doing was being sanctioned by the MU board to actually go out and buy big name players, established, at their supposed peak or nearing it for the first time. In itself that is not misguided thinking although the results have been a little poor in some respects. The PLC made the money available and Sir Alex was given the licence he had craved to go and buy such players.

Unfortunately as MU has learned, that does not necessarily make a great team greater. On the evidence SO FAR (I am hoping things will turn around and purchases of players such as Veron will be seen as masterstrokes), the team has become weakened, not improved.

However, who foresaw Veron`s adaptation problems? Anybody who says they questioned his ability to adapt to the Premiership and foresaw a season and a half of mediocrity (relatively speaking, given Veron`s reputation and undoubted talents)is someone who is wise after the event. If anybody on this board did, however, I would not be surprised as I think there are some very insightful posters here.

I remember an ex-teammate of Veron`s saying he wouldn`t be surprised if Veron won the Premiership`s player of the year in his first season. A sad irony now. However, Rio will come through, I believe, and deliver the goods. He has been unlucky with injury. As for Barthez, anybody who writes him off has no real knowledge of the man`s skills as far as I am concerned. He was a great buy, he is a great personality and will prove his detractors wrong - again.

As for Diego - even his most wishfully thinking fans cannot argue that to pay so much for an unknown runs contrary to all the previous wisdom of this club and Sir Alex in recruiting players. In the past, players like Diego were snapped up for around 1 or 2 million.

Yes, yes, we all know his price tage of 7million was too much but MU should not have bought him in that case. Period. There should have been other, cheaper options from clubs that were not so willing to hold MU to ransom over an unknown.
 
Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>
I am more afriad that we have builded a bad reputation of buying a player no matter what the price on him is. This had lead many teams in forcing us pay ridiculous money for thier players
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree with you 100%

Clubs know United are big money so they're willing to hold out their players until United are willing to cough up more money onto the table.
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I think when we're talking about increasing the depth of the squad we should also think about the fact that we must buy quality players who are willing to sit on the bench.

Previous United buys never had problems sitting on the bench. The best examples would be Ole in this case. Then there was Sheringham also - although only for a year he seemed to have been quite a substitute! Then there are players like Butt and P.Neville who have always been on the bench.

So there are two choices here:

1. Buy proven young players with good prospects from teams that will be satisfied with less than 5m for the player because they need cash immediately. Maybe like Tommy Smith of Watford.

2. Buy older quality players who do not have the stamina to run 60 games a year as a starting line up. Maybe Di Canio is still up for graps.

Either way I think we will benefit from this. I'm looking at the bench these days and I see the likes of "Danny Pugh" and I feel extremely depressed and keep my fingers crossed he doesn't come down when we're 1-1 or even 2-1 these days.
 
Well i have poised doubts on 2 players

1 Juan Sebastian Veron 28m. He's a wonderful midfielder but did we needed him? I would have opted on a VALID winger who can cover Beckham and giggs, realising Beckham from his wide role when needed. Manutd needed also a creative forward and when you remember that ronaldinho and duff were rated 12 m i would like to kill all SAF's scouts (joking)

2 R Ferdinard 30m Possibly one of the best defenders in modern football. But why choking all that money when the best defender around (Nesta) was sold to Milan for 19m?? There was a money crisis across the football world and we werent wise enough to exploit it
 
Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>Well i have poised doubts on 2 players

1 Juan Sebastian Veron 28m. He's a wonderful midfielder but did we needed him? I would have opted on a VALID winger who can cover Beckham and giggs, realising Beckham from his wide role when needed. Manutd needed also a creative forward and when you remember that ronaldinho and duff were rated 12 m i would like to kill all SAF's scouts (joking)

2 R Ferdinard 30m Possibly one of the best defenders in modern football. But why choking all that money when the best defender around (Nesta) was sold to Milan for 19m?? There was a money crisis across the football world and we werent wise enough to exploit it</strong><hr></blockquote>

As an English player Rio Ferdinand could settle in and adapt quickly to our team, while you never know how many months/years will Nesta need to adapt to English football. We have spent 30m, but we have got a world class defender who can be the heart of our defence for the next 10 years, so actually I don't think this transfer is that bad.

But I agree the purchase of Veron is definitely a big error, no matter how we see it.
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My point is that we have bought Rio at an unrealistic price. Comeon 30 M is an enormous sum expecially when you see the best defender on earth being sold for nearly half the price!!!!!.

My Bargain team ( next year )

GK Rustu 28yr FREE ( World cup most consistant keeper Rustu is on free next year)
LB Sorin 25 yrs 5m ( Argentinian Int, a fiery left back with a unique class. For a strange reason Lazio seem prefaring favalli making sorin's price go down)
cb Ayala 29 yrs FREE ( Argentinian skipper with an italian passport and 60+ caps in his belt)
CB Escude 21 yrs 5 m ( Ok he is more a left back rather than a cb, but lizarazu's successor is too good to be left out of this side)
RB Cafu 32 yrs FREE ( One of the best full backs in the world and possessing an Italian passport. It up to Manutd to convince him to come at ot and snub Roma)
LW Lopez 28 yrs 5m ( Argentinian Int stiker cum winger. A pacey striker filled with flair, Lopez's price had gone down thanks to Lazio's financial prob)
DM EMRE 26 yrs 7m ( Turkish little engine room. Emre have struggled into the overpopulated Inter's midfield. A Wonderful player)
RW Castroman 21 yr 6m ( Fast and equally talented Castroman is argentinian's answer to Ryan giggs. Can play anywhere in the midfield)
AM Nakata 26 yr 5m ( Creative and hardworking. The Japanese int midfielder is sheer class. Had struggled with Parma in turmoil and is searching a new club)
FW Kluivert 26 yr 12m ( Dutch int and a classy striker. Barcelona are in a wage cut mood sooo he will come at OT with a reasonable price)
FW Gudjhansen 24 yr 10m ( Chelsea are in financial turmoil and they are keen to let Gudjhansen for a reasonable price)

reserves

Adriano 21 yr Inter 5m ( a dangerous stiker the most promising prospect in brazil he is not finding space with inter)
West 28 free ( Nigerian int and a powerful defender)
Ambrosini 25yr 6m ( Italian int solid defensive midfielder who is stuggling to find space at Milan)
Chervaton 23yr 4m ( have lit the serie A and B with his goalscoring spree currently playing at Lecce)
Nakamura 27yr 5m ( nicknamed the japanese R Baggio for the class shown in the serie A. a wonderful prospect)
 
Originally posted by golden_blunder:
<strong>3 seasons ago, United fans were crying that no big names were signed.
Now we're crying that we spend too much money?
<img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />
i think what youre all trying to say is that we could have signed 3 good players for the price of one Veron... ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

Spot on. RVN and Rio are undoubted class, alright Veron hasnt been as good as we'd hoped, but he still came with a World Class tag, and no one argued about signing him at the time.

When you're the best you should only need to add one or two names a season and that's what we've done. Any fault for a decline in standard should be pointed at our existing players. Keano's done that and been slated for it.
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feckin Lampard!!!

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
 
United always have a policy of growing there own with only bringing in players who can add something to their squad. The players they bring in are mostly the finished article with excellence and skill with a lot of ability. These players will always cost you money in todays market. You either wanna remain at the top and you buy class you can't bring through your youth system or you drop down the table maybe not in England but in Europe!!
 
Originally posted by MancFanFromManc:
<strong>

Spot on. RVN and Rio are undoubted class, alright Veron hasnt been as good as we'd hoped, but he still came with a World Class tag, and no one argued about signing him at the time.

When you're the best you should only need to add one or two names a season and that's what we've done. Any fault for a decline in standard should be pointed at our existing players. Keano's done that and been slated for it.</strong><hr></blockquote>


I think the result last season has already shown that we are not "the best" anymore. So at least there should be a major strengthening this year. But we've failed to do that and we will very probably pay for it later.
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Originally posted by Stick:
<strong>United always have a policy of growing there own with only bringing in players who can add something to their squad. The players they bring in are mostly the finished article with excellence and skill with a lot of ability. These players will always cost you money in todays market. You either wanna remain at the top and you buy class you can't bring through your youth system or you drop down the table maybe not in England but in Europe!!</strong><hr></blockquote>

We have bought inexpensive player like Johnsen, Irwin, Ole, Sheringham, etc. and looked what they did for us. With the price we paid for Veron, it's already more than enough for Arsenal to get Vieira+Pires+Ljungberg+Campbel+Silva and still have some changes left.
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Stick in which position we are the Best?

GK We are solid

Defense Decent but Still Miles away from being the best. Without a decent cover for silvestre and with Blanc and P Neville playing we are inferior both to Arsenal and Liverpool

Midfield. Lack cover on the wings. Our Midfield has the quality but not the quantity. And with Fergie constantly changing our midfielders roles we cannot even exploit fully our quality.

Attack. Superb with Van Nis and Solskjear. But I would prefar B Charlton (or my grandma) as their cover rather than Diego Forlan.

Do you call this the best my old friend sticky???
 
Have to disagree with devilish about Hidetoshi Nakata. Living in Japan I know about Inomoto and Nakata and I can tell you, Japanese football is lightweight and so are their players. Forget that rather good run in the World Cup - they were used to the conditions, it was on their home turf, etc.

Nakata has struggled in the slower paced Serie A and would be cut to ribbons in the Premiership, especially as he is easily knocked off the ball. Inomoto is a bit different but I will be surprised to see him make a real impact with Fulham. Unfortunately, as I love the Japanese and their football team.
 
Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>RW Castroman 21 yr 6m ( Fast and equally talented Castroman is argentinian's answer to Ryan giggs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Then he would be LW wouldn't he. I've been a big fan of Castroman for a while now. He seems to have slipped through the cracks and gets very little attention as a potential transfer target. If Lazio still indeed owe us the Stam money then we should consider Sorin and Castroman in exchange.
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Castroman can play anywhere across the midfield + left back wing back and right wing back. I have said that he is similar to Giggsie just because he
has the pace, the technique and the scoring abilities of welsh wizard.

I remember his debut in the Serie A. A wonderful game which ended with 2 of his goals ( superb for a player just coming out from Argentina). Simeone had described him as Argie's best young talent ( better than Saviola and Aimar)

He had showed ample magic in italy and i wonder what he can do in england where the defenses arent so tight.In the past Lazio have treated him as little more than a youth ( they were even thinking sell him to chievo) but nowadays castroman is a first teamer

10 m rated then?WELL I dont think so. With Mancini as Lazio's no 1 ( he seem to prefare italian rather than argentinian talent) it is not difficult to sign Lazio's argentinian's stars for a bargian.
 
We should have bought Robbie Keane for 8 million ,a bargain if I have ever seen one.Cannot understand Fergies attitude to the player,hes going to grow into a world class player
 
Originally posted by JSV:
<strong>Lampard Absoloute shite. Will never be anything more than a decent league midfielder

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Which would be handy

We could always drop him for European games

He also took the piss outa United in the first half at the bridge

Crap player
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Lampard is not a bad player BUT HEEEEELLLLLOOO PPL we have already Loads of competition in that position with Veron, Scholes and Beckham
 
I have to agree with Benny - I have been a big fan of Robbie Keane from the time he was with Coventry, but as someone pointed out to me Sir Alex`s comments about `Baby Irish` were probably taken out of context (surprise, surprise) as some kind of attack instead of a mild surprise at the lad`s pricetag.

I don`t know how well he will do with Spurs - it`s a shockingly mediocre club and team, and it is no surprise Teddy has not shone there as he is deprived of the fantastic service he received during his time with us.

But if Robbie Keane had been bought for 1 million pounds more than Diego, I think by now we would have been repaid with some goals. He loves to run at defences and usually looks dangerous when he is given half chances.

He also would have been accepted by the Old Trafford crowd right away, I think, as he is a man who enjoys his football and it shows.
 
Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>Lampard is not a bad player BUT HEEEEELLLLLOOO PPL we have already Loads of competition in that position with Veron, Scholes and Beckham</strong><hr></blockquote>

Point is that Lampard was cheap and i was under the illusion that we were imagining that we hadn't bought a crock of shit for 28 million. In which case there would have been a position for him
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Sheringham has done very well for spurs since his return and there were calls for him getting an international call up on the merits of his performances last year. As for robbie keane he is a very good player but ferguson offended him when he said 5 million was too much to be asking for an unproven Irish lad(when he was at wolves) so then he goes out and spends 7.5m on an excellent and clearly world class forward in Diego Forlan!!(he cant finish his dinner and wouldnt score in a brothel)
 
Giggsgirl you seem you have never talked to Fergie havent you??

Fergie is the most wonderful and loving person in the world and YET

1 He is Stubborn as a mule
2 He's a bad loser
3 Cannot control his f**kin tongue

He HAD insulted R Keano as in the past he had insulted Rio Ferdinard ( claiming that hes not even half good as Wes Brown)

Claims where Surprise Surprise had been proved wrong.
 
No, I haven`t talked to Fergie lately!

About Robbie Keane, someone on this board said the quote was taken out of context. As for Rio - well, I am sure he took that with a sack or two of salt but I don`t think there is anything necessarily wrong with our cantankerous manager being so loyal to Manchester United lads.
 
Originally posted by JSV:
<strong>

is they buy the best, not the most expensive although the two nearly always come hand in hand.

.</strong><hr></blockquote>

exactly, the price reflects the ability and to be the best you have to get the best players.

Liverpool bought their players during their building phase, i.e. when they were shite, and they have offloaded quite a few of their signings from that period that weren't good enough. It just happens that Riise and Hyypia passed the grade and developed into good players.

And if you have to buy players to develop them into WC players, why not give the players with potential from the academy this chance to develop instead?, i.e. do the vital scouting at a younger age. You get club loyalty as bonus there.

Instead of buying youth players that could become class from France give Oshea etc a chance. And the players you buy from outside should add something to the squad immediately, if you have a good squad from before signings like Rio Ferdinand is the next step.
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Teoratically you are right Ahmed but there are three major problems in grooming English youngsters

1 With the FA rules you can only groom youngsters from a certian area ( ex Manutd only from Manchester)

2 The Market is Oversaturated with loads of teams searching for new talent

3 the prices of youngsters are sky high and can reach up to 10m

4 FA is against clubs who give first team play to players 17 yrs and under.
 
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