What's wrong with counter attacking football?

[DSG]

I think you are the one who should read these books. No one said Zidane and Carlo's Madrid or Klopp's Liverpool were playing ticki taka, but they were dictating the play, playing on front foot and were comfortable in possession. Their intention wasn't to set back and wait for a lucky break on the counter against any big team they face. They can do counters while in fast transition, but that's not their main and only plan.

We aren't asking Ten Hag to play Ticki Taka, we are asking to coach the side to play on front foot, press opposition and retain the ball well. That's not Ticki Taka.

Did Real play on the front foot vs Liverpool in the CL final last year? Chelsea vs City in the CL final in 21? I just gave you stats on how both Chelsea and Real beat top teams in the last several years of the CL. How is releasing Vinicius on the left while Kyle Walker pinched in last season vs. City a lucky break? And if you watched the match, it was plan A. They specifically kept compact, defended well and used switches and quick long balls to attack City because they knew they’d have 2, at most 3 players defending on the break.

Mate, Ten Hag doesn’t have the squad to boss possession against every opponent. He’s out to win matches. He’s said this in press conferences and post match interviews MANY TIMES. Results come first and foremost.

You guys complaining about Ten Hag need to relax. Being worried about how we are going to score vs team who park the bus is a legitimate worry, and I share that concern. But this dogged obsession with possession football is ridiculous.

 

[devilish]

This is a good post and I agree with a lot of it. The best teams are pragmatic and can alter approach based on the opponent. I think you’re a bit harsh on Ole though. He was unable to win a trophy and diversify our attacking philosophy, but he really didn’t have the midfielders to do it. I suppose if you want to blame him for not buying the midfielders he needed, that’s fair.

He spent over 420m. He could have added CMs if he wanted to.

 

[el3mel]

Did Real play on the front foot vs Liverpool in the CL final last year? Chelsea vs City in the CL final in 21? I just gave you stats on how both Chelsea and Real beat top teams in the last several years of the CL. How is releasing Vinicius on the left while Kyle Walker pinched in last season vs. City a lucky break? And if you watched the match, it was plan A. They specifically kept compact, defended well and used switches and quick long balls to attack City because they knew they’d have 2, at most 3 players defending on the break.

Mate, Ten Hag doesn’t have the squad to boss possession against every opponent. He’s out to win matches. He’s said this in press conferences and post match interviews MANY TIMES. Results come first and foremost.

You guys complaining about Ten Hag need to relax. Being worried about how we are going to score vs team who park the bus is a legitimate worry, and I share that concern. But this dogged obsession with possession football is ridiculous.

Implementing a defensive game style in a one off game isn't a problem. It's a problem when that's pretty much your way to go against any big opposition. Madrid might have played a defensive game here and there but that's not the way they approach all big games.

You are right that results come first and foremost. However style of play is what brings consistent results. Playing defensive football gives you short term results but eventually it's not sustainable and when it will start failing to bring you results, you will have nothing left to praise in the team.

You have to play with a distinct style and with offensive mindset if you ultimately want consistent results. We have been at this multiple times before.

 

[Tyrion]

We could finish anywhere between 2nd and 6th I reckon, we need a lot more evidence first.

It's not unrealistic. When you are (at worst) the 6th best team in the league, a top 4 finish is never "unrealistic".

4th and 7th I think. I can't see us finishing ahead of City or Spurs or both of Liverpool and Arsenal.

 

[Dempsey19]

I just want CL football. Im afraid that if we overachieve then ETH or the board will be happy with the squad etc and not build on it. Everyone knows Maguire/Shaw/AWB/Ronaldo and possibly Fred will be shown the door in the summer.

I don't mind counter attacking football against the likes of City/Liverpool but against lesser teams we should be controlling the game, creating chances and killing the game.

 

[jesperjaap]

4th and 7th I think. I can't see us finishing ahead of City or Spurs or both of Liverpool and Arsenal.

I still feel its way way too early to predict anything, was surprised to see Keane say we are certaintites for the top four after three good performances.

There is still no way to predict how the London clubs are going to perform over the season from what we have seen so far or whether its a blip for Liverpool or a transitional problem with a few players who have peaked too not jsut by age in there careers but levels they can consistently perform to.

I still feel we coul dfinish anywhere between 2nd and 8th, if I was to predict I think its 4th-6th though. The early signs from management and coaching look promising....but its early on in a season from a reasonable window inwards not outwars and many have got carried away I feel from two results against two big teams....as a whole though....

We have played seven compeititve games this season in which:

We have been diabolical in two, pretty poor in three of which we won two and good in two that we won where if we are honest we were the poorer team in each game and the results could have gone very differently.

And the biggest concern for me, though there have been a few obvious imporovments, especially in terms of the back four as a unit both defensively and offensively......offensively we still only offer counter attackign football.

Counter attacking football is no bad thing, a bug part of us under Ferguuson was actually counter attacking football, not just in big games in the league or champions league. But the big difference between the football then and now, we offered much more than counter attackign football, we were able to offer a high press at times and generally pressing when required all over the park, there was a flow to the football and an ability to get round the sides or through the middle.

Now, we offer lots of pace on the break and defence splitting balls from Fernandes and Eriksen......but bar the Arsenal/Liverpool games playing this way, we have struggled to break down every other side we have played. Hopefully an improment in Sancho and Antony settling in changes that as without a bug improvment in that area of guile and breaking teams down.....there are still plenty of games where we may lose points I feel

 

[DSG]

Implementing a defensive game style in a one off game isn't a problem. It's a problem when that's pretty much your way to go against any big opposition. Madrid might have played a defensive game here and there but that's not the way they approach all big games.

You are right that results come first and foremost. However style of play is what brings consistent results. Playing defensive football gives you short term results but eventually it's not sustainable and when it will start failing to bring you results, you will have nothing left to praise in the team.

You have to play with a distinct style and with offensive mindset if you ultimately want consistent results. We have been at this multiple times before.

I think that you, and many in the Caf, think that possession based football as an unbending and definitive style, wins the most trophies.

I was merely pointing out the many many times that a tactically flexible team has won these big trophies when playing versus a possession heavy opponent. Also, these teams tend to win the CL more often, both in modern times and 20-30 years ago.

There is no doubt that you need to be able to shapeshift and play many different kinds of football to consistently win. We will need to learn how to score versus a low block to beat those teams.

‘I’m more interested in results, winning trophies, and gaining momentum in table position, squad building and club structure than becoming a possession centric side.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Well, counter attack is obviously not something we want to go in long term and neither ten Hag is aiming for. However, it is not possible within short period of time to transfrom a team from playing counter attack for years to a team that dominate possession in majority of the game in couple of weeks or months. Every transition requires time, whether it is sport or business.

We have seen glimps of how we could become in long term for example our first goal vs Arsenal was based on possession and build up play from the back not based on counter attack. The team will slowly graduated to be capable to play like our first goal vs Arsenal in much longer minutes within the game. Some pundits are just clueless that they have no clue if this takes time and they couldn't see the glimps of some moments where we showed a domination of possession.

 

[redIndianDevil]

If you were around for Fergie's early years, I bet that you would be first in line to call for his firing. Probably printing the banners with 'Fergie Out' to give out to your mates.

Can't believe there are still

Because Klopp and Pep didn't take over teams as rubbish as ETH has. If he wanted to play possession football, who could he actually play? Our goalie is appallingly bad at it and he's been our best player since Ferguson left. Our defence can't do it, our midfield can't pass forward and our forwards are fast but that's it. Klopp took over a decent team from Rodgers. Pep took over league champions. ETH took over a team of one trick ponies that have either counter attacked, lobbed it to Felliani or lost for at least 5 years and had given up. Anyone expecting him to make them into proto-Barca was kidding themselves.



They are relevant. It's not a different sport. Pep and Conte did the same things in La Liga and Serie A that they do in England. You can dismiss what happens in those leagues because it undermines your argument if you like but I don't have to. Tactics don't magically disintegrate when you cross a border, if they did, every champions league game would be won by the home team.

You're guessing they wouldn't be as dominant if they played differently. But you have a point in so far as the way they play suits their players. The way we've played in the last few games suits ours. Blindly copying them gets us hammered by Brentford. Burnley couldn't copy Liverpool and suddenly start challenging for the title.



That was it. The Caf didn't appoint him, the club did and those prats probably don't even know what possession football is. You can judge him by what random posters on here want but that won't be what gets him sacked or rewarded.

There's no point in persisting with trying to teach donkeys how to be greyhounds until you get sacked at Christmas when we're 12th.



He's done that. Ole didn't deliver good results in his last year, did he? He couldn't progress the team from the tiny base he had. ETH can. But for now, he's stuck with what he's got.

Jesus, if losing one game in the Europa League is enough to make everyone here start moaning again, maybe we deserve finishing 12th.

Oh get off from your high horse. I have heard all these arguments during Mourinho and Ole era. Always moaning on and on about players but acting blind to small teams playing good possession football. There are loads of team in Spain, top teams in Portugal, even in England Leeds, Brighton manage to play good possession football on a shoestring budget. It was evidently apparent under LvG we were attempting possession football from the get go. My point is a manager makes instant impact. I haven’t seen anything like that from EtH. Yes it is far too sooner to judge him but things are not looking good so far IMO.

 

[sglowrider]

It was evidently apparent under LvG we were attempting possession football from the get go. My point is a manager makes instant impact. I haven’t seen anything like that from EtH. Yes it is far too sooner to judge him but things are not looking good so far IMO.

Have you ever played organised sport before? Actually, never mind sports, what about work?

Who can you name that has made an instant impact? Translation and execution of ideas into play/operations are rarely instant.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Have you ever played organised sport before? Actually, never mind sports, what about work?

Who can you name that has made an instant impact? Translation and execution of ideas into play/operations are rarely instant.

I’ll admit I don’t know the inner workings of organized sport like most of the people here. But in any project/work that is lagging behind and management brings in experts and invests loads of money, they all expect instant impact.

All top managers/coaches make instant impact, Tuchel did, Klopp did, Guardiola did, Bielsa did at Leeds. I’m not saying all these managers won titles within 2 months but all their teams played like how their managers wanted them to play from the get go. They all would have been bad in the first few months but it was clear what their managers wanted todo.

 

[sglowrider]

All top managers/coaches make instant impact, Tuchel did, Klopp did, Guardiola did, Bielsa did at Leeds. I’m not saying all these managers won titles within 2 months but all their teams played like how their managers wanted them to play from the get go. They all would have been bad in the first few months but it was clear what their managers wanted todo.

I think you are suffering from the recency effects. Pep, Klopp all struggled their first year!

Bielsa has been sacked so what sort of impact are you expecting? Anyone with a particular philosophy will struggle to implement their ideas immediately -- Pep even despite having a management structure and personnel in place a couple of years before he even got to City.

United has been an oscillation of dogmatic to pragmatic approaches since Fergie left. And the residuls are combination of players, an ensalada squad.

ETH has a philosophy but so far is not as dogmatic as it seems. Nevertheless, it will take time.

At this level, they have clearly defined skillsets on which they were either coached to or bought for. Players aren't robots where you can just re-programme them overnight. And then have them fit into your system.

Extreme examples -- how to play possession football when you have a Ronaldo that doesn't play to a system? Immediately, your system that's designed for 11 players is now having a vacuum. Then you add De Gea is just isn't a sweeper-keeper. Or we don't have a player who transitions from Defence to Attack like an FdJ.

That's the spine of any team right there.

So now what? What do you do with your vision/philosophy of how you want United to play?

Thus the proverbial three transfer widows requirement for most managers.

 

[redIndianDevil]

I think you are suffering from the recency effects. Pep, Klopp all struggled their first year!

Bielsa has been sacked so what sort of impact are you expecting? Anyone with a particular philosophy will struggle to implement their ideas immediately -- Pep even despite having a management structure and personnel in place a couple of years before he even got to City.

United has been an oscillation of dogmatic to pragmatic approaches since Fergie left. And the residuls are combination of players, an ensalada squad.

ETH has a philosophy but so far is not as dogmatic as it seems. Nevertheless, it will take time.

At this level, they have clearly defined skillsets on which they were either coached to or bought for. Players aren't robots where you can just re-programme them overnight. And then have them fit into your system.

Extreme examples -- how to play possession football when you have a Ronaldo that doesn't play to a system? Immediately, your system that's designed for 11 players is now having a vacuum. Then you add De Gea is just isn't a sweeper-keeper. Or we don't have a player who transitions from Defence to Attack like an FdJ.

That's the spine of any team right there.

So now what? What do you do with your vision/philosophy of how you want United to play?

Thus the proverbial three transfer widows requirement for most managers.

I have already said I’m not expecting us to be transformed overnight and I have also said that Pep’s and Klopps team didn’t become world beaters from the get go but their teams started to resemble how they wanted their teams to play even without their own personnel. I didn’t see City or Liverpool parking the bus desperately and hoofing it long, however bad they played the players still did what their managers wanted them to do. I don’t mind us losing badly or losing a few games if there is improvement in possession or passing or movement, that’s how you learn and weed out poor performers. You don’t keep them in their comfort zones for 3 transfer windows.

Again with the players, they are all top professionals, I’m pretty sure they all can run and make simple passes. Plenty of small clubs with unknown players are playing beautiful one touch possession football all over the world. Not everyone can afford to have De Jongs, Modrics or De Bruynes of this world. And most clubs would be happy to have De Gea starting for them.

I feel like I’m starting to have the same arguments again. All the reasons in your post I have heard again and again when people here defended Mourinho and Solksjaer.

I don’t mind being patient and I’m not moaning because we aren’t competing for titles. It’s the lack of improvement or courage that’s causing me concern in yet another manager. Take the Arsenal game, first 5-10 mins we passed really well and controlled the game and after that resorted to our old or parking the bus. After Antony’s first goal Dalot stopped making passes to Antony and started hoofing even under little or no pressure. He failed to make simple ground passes any professional footballer can make but he resorted to aimless long balls. De Gea again could have made lots of simple passes and even under no pressure still hoofed it long. These sort of things would have made Guardiola or Klopp so mad. This is where I’d like to see improvements. I’m not expecting 90 mins of possession and high pressing football but start making fewer mistakes, if we are in a lead and in the last 5 mins there is not need to lose possession by hoofing it long but attempt simple passes and recycle possession. Im not even seeing these minor improvements. It’s the same hoofing and desperate defending the last few minutes.

 

[Bebestation]

Ten Hag doesn’t play possession football like Van Gaal and Guardiola where the ball is passed around visibly around the team, even slowly if needed to - to break down a team.

Ten Hag’s possesion football is quite fast and is still about beating the opposition with quick passing and tricks.

It’s something I saw at Ajax - he isn’t a slow possesion manager and is quite a fast one to the point you don’t really see the possesion in the team.

I think this just takes time to improve with progress as a team and players.

 

[PepG]

What my impression from this discussion is that its not a question about possession or counterattacking football..the general question about United and the style of play is if this team is gonna be a proactive side or negative side.. both versions include possession or counterattacks as weapons. Erik ten Hag is a proactive manager so i am pretty sure that United would become a proactive team.. its all about time..

 

[redIndianDevil]

I think that you, and many in the Caf, think that possession based football as an unbending and definitive style, wins the most trophies.

I was merely pointing out the many many times that a tactically flexible team has won these big trophies when playing versus a possession heavy opponent. Also, these teams tend to win the CL more often, both in modern times and 20-30 years ago.

There is no doubt that you need to be able to shapeshift and play many different kinds of football to consistently win. We will need to learn how to score versus a low block to beat those teams.

‘I’m more interested in results, winning trophies, and gaining momentum in table position, squad building and club structure than becoming a possession centric side.

To be able to win the CL you have to qualify for it first. And all this point a reactive counter attacking team in the PL is not going to qualify for the CL ahead or City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. I’m not including Spurs because they are a counter attacking side but they have got very good personnel and a manager who completely embraces that type of football. If results and few cups are what we needed then it would have made sense to go for Conte last January.

 

[norm87cro]

Nothing. But you cant implement it if your playing Reading/Burnley/Stoke/Fulham at home and they put 11 men behind the ball. You have to build something while they are the ones looking for the counter

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Truly exceptional teams are deadly in transition.

 

[Marwood]

Counter attacking football is all good as long as it's by choice. As in how we chose to play that way under Fergie at times.

Anybody watching us for the last few years knows it hasn't been a choice. It's been our only option due to the types of players we have. That's not so good.

 

[redIndianDevil]

I think that you, and many in the Caf, think that possession based football as an unbending and definitive style, wins the most trophies.

I was merely pointing out the many many times that a tactically flexible team has won these big trophies when playing versus a possession heavy opponent. Also, these teams tend to win the CL more often, both in modern times and 20-30 years ago.

There is no doubt that you need to be able to shapeshift and play many different kinds of football to consistently win. We will need to learn how to score versus a low block to beat those teams.

‘I’m more interested in results, winning trophies, and gaining momentum in table position, squad building and club structure than becoming a possession centric side.

While fans like you assume that few wins here and there but nicking it on the counter will lead to trophies. There is a reason why City has been the only club able to dominate the PL these last few years and it's not by reacting to how opponents play every week. The style you are preaching may be good enough for cup runs here and there but pretty useless in a league as competitive as the PL.

 

[Tyrion]

Can't believe there are still

Oh get off from your high horse. I have heard all these arguments during Mourinho and Ole era. Always moaning on and on about players but acting blind to small teams playing good possession football. There are loads of team in Spain, top teams in Portugal, even in England Leeds, Brighton manage to play good possession football on a shoestring budget. It was evidently apparent under LvG we were attempting possession football from the get go. My point is a manager makes instant impact. I haven’t seen anything like that from EtH. Yes it is far too sooner to judge him but things are not looking good so far IMO.

He's had an instant impact. When have we last won 4 games in a row?

And I know smaller teams can play possession football but their players are good at that. Ours aren't.

 

[Threesus]

While fans like you assume that few wins here and there but nicking it on the counter will lead to trophies. There is a reason why City has been the only club able to dominate the PL these last few years and it's not by reacting to how opponents play every week. The style you are preaching may be good enough for cup runs here and there but pretty useless in a league as competitive as the PL.

I completely agree. Either ten hag feels that the players at his disposal are not good enough to play his style or we have yet again made the wrong managerial choice.

Don’t know where we go after this guy, tbh.

 

[Tyrion]

While fans like you assume that few wins here and there but nicking it on the counter will lead to trophies. There is a reason why City has been the only club able to dominate the PL these last few years and it's not by reacting to how opponents play every week. The style you are preaching may be good enough for cup runs here and there but pretty useless in a league as competitive as the PL.

It's by having the biggest budget and the best squad. Plus the best manager when it comes to league football for the last decade.

The league being competitive doesn't effect which tactics work.

 

[Bebestation]

It's by having the biggest budget and the best squad. Plus the best manager when it comes to league football for the last decade.

The league being competitive doesn't effect which tactics work.

This.

 

[RedOrange]

Can't believe there are still

Oh get off from your high horse. I have heard all these arguments during Mourinho and Ole era. Always moaning on and on about players but acting blind to small teams playing good possession football. There are loads of team in Spain, top teams in Portugal, even in England Leeds, Brighton manage to play good possession football on a shoestring budget. It was evidently apparent under LvG we were attempting possession football from the get go. My point is a manager makes instant impact. I haven’t seen anything like that from EtH. Yes it is far too sooner to judge him but things are not looking good so far IMO.

Interesting that you mention these teams. You might want to check Brighton's places in the table during Potter's first two seasons there. It took more than 2 years for him to get them going. Leeds also almost got relegated last year.

we've dominated possession against everyone except Liverpool and Arsenal, we are just struggling to break them down at the moment. The players just need time to improve and the club needs another few transfer windows to fill out the squad.

And before you start on the players being good enough, the only midfielder at the club capable of progressing the ball from deep is a 30 year old converted attacking mid with a dicky ticker.

Also who do you think would have had us dominating possession and winning all our games 3-0 already? Please provide names.

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

Counter attack football isn't a problem. It is only a problem when you play a team who enforce a deep block against you. Watch Oles United vs Wolves and anyone else who defended well against us and how clueless we were in possession.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Interesting that you mention these teams. You might want to check Brighton's places in the table during Potter's first two seasons there. It took more than 2 years for him to get them going. Leeds also almost got relegated last year.

we've dominated possession against everyone except Liverpool and Arsenal, we are just struggling to break them down at the moment. The players just need time to improve and the club needs another few transfer windows to fill out the squad.

And before you start on the players being good enough, the only midfielder at the club capable of progressing the ball from deep is a 30 year old converted attacking mid with a dicky ticker.

Also who do you think would have had us dominating possession and winning all our games 3-0 already? Please provide names.

My grievance is not that we are not already dominating possession and winning all games 3-0. My point is that I’m not at all seeing even small/minor improvements.

I know that Leeds almost got relegated last season and Brighton weren’t always good like this, what I’m saying is after Bielsa took over there was an instant impact in that players started pressing and started high tempo passing game from the get go. Brighton is the same as well. Im not claiming these managers transformed them instantly but their teams changed the way they approach the games instantly. Whereas we are still stuck in our old ways despite having a pre season.

Even without EtH we are always going to have possession against smaller teams. But remember the Southampton game, Leicester game in the final 10 mins we reverted to the old and started parking the bus, inviting pressure and almost end up losing points.Why aren’t weable to maintain possession in those minutes? Small improvements like this is what I’m expecting to see. I wouldn’t even care if we end up losing points after attempting to play differently because that’s how you learn. But the same old same old is only going to result in points dropped in the future.

 

[redIndianDevil]

It's by having the biggest budget and the best squad. Plus the best manager when it comes to league football for the last decade.

The league being competitive doesn't effect which tactics work.

Our pockets may not be as deep as them but we have spent shedloads of money to play at least decent football.

 

[padzilla]

The issue is that it is a tactic that can be easily countered by teams sitting deep and playing patiently rather than trying to bombard forward at every opportunity.
Fergie famously played counter attacking football but he would play it mostly when we were away from home against teams who were up for it and capable of giving us real problems, he also set us out most games to be dominant and take the game to most opponents.
If we are only going to play counter attacking football then I feel we won't be winning any trophies any time soon. I also accept Ten Hag and the coaching staff are not dummies and would imagine this is just an early phase of our evolution under the new management.

 

[bimalos]

There is no wrong with counter-attacking football. It is entertaining and also art. Not every team can do it.

 

[redIndianDevil]

He's had an instant impact. When have we last won 4 games in a row?

And I know smaller teams can play possession football but their players are good at that. Ours aren't.

Still moaning about players. There are teams whose entire squad costed what we spent on Casemiro and Antony playing good football

 

[Zen86]

Still moaning about players. There are teams whose entire squad costed what we spent on Casemiro and Antony playing good football

Playing "good football" as you so put it is one thing, playing "good football" that wins on a consistent basis is an entirely different matter. If you force a game plan on a group of players who aren't very good at it, then the results aren't going to be very good even if the whole squad cost £100m each.

 

[Swordsman]

cos counter attacking doesn't works if the opponent is playing low block / parking the bus

 

[RedOrange]

My grievance is not that we are not already dominating possession and winning all games 3-0. My point is that I’m not at all seeing even small/minor improvements.

I know that Leeds almost got relegated last season and Brighton weren’t always good like this, what I’m saying is after Bielsa took over there was an instant impact in that players started pressing and started high tempo passing game from the get go. Brighton is the same as well. Im not claiming these managers transformed them instantly but their teams changed the way they approach the games instantly. Whereas we are still stuck in our old ways despite having a pre season.

Buddy, if you think this you're either clueless or just wumming. I don't know what to tell you if you think there's no change from last season. Are you actually watching the games? Do you have some sort of short term memory problem?

There are major differences from last season, you can tell from still shots of player positions on the field when we have possession, ffs. The wingers are positioned way wider in possession, for one. When the wide players take the ball into the corner they will retain possession and pass it back rather than attempt a cross every time. For stretches in every match, even against Liverpool and Arsenal the forwards were pressing very high up the pitch, which we saw for maybe two matches under Rangnick last season. We are seeing intricate passing in tight spaces being used to avoid being pressed at times. It's not for the entirety of the match and some players are better at it than others, but it's there.

If you've ever actually played a team sport and had a lead late in the game you'd know that there is a natural tendency to drop back and play defensively late in games. It takes a lot of confidence and experience to keep the initiative in these situations and few of the players have it at this point. Also, ETH specifically said after the games you mentioned that the players are dropping into a low block against his instructions and that they will continue to work on not doing it.

 

[Greck]

I think you mean what's wrong with only counterattacking football. Most of the reservations relate to the only. Big big difference.

 

[Flexdegea]

Lot of folk he convinced themselves that counter attack football is easy and not advanced, just parking the bus and breaking into the space so any oul mug manager can do it,

 

[Tyrion]

Our pockets may not be as deep as them but we have spent shedloads of money to play at least decent football.

I think counter attacking can still be decent football. Mourinho scored a lot of goals at Chelsea and Real and we never played much possession under Ferguson.

Still moaning about players. There are teams whose entire squad costed what we spent on Casemiro and Antony playing good football

How many of the players we have signed were signed from possession teams? Not Maguire, DDG, Shaw, AWB, Bruno, McFred, Rashford, Martial or Ronaldo. We've bought good counter attackers for years because that's what the mangers we've had have wanted.

 

[adexkola]

I think counter attacking can still be decent football. Mourinho scored a lot of goals at Chelsea and Real and we never played much possession under Ferguson.

With Mourinho you see what happens when you rely on counter attacking football. His Real and Chelsea teams (specifically the second go round at Chelsea) fell apart the year after they won titles because teams figured out that if you don't give them space to counter into, they look devoid of ideas.

Regarding the bolded, that's not just true. We dominated the ball under Ferguson. Not in a tiki-taka manner, more forceful and dynamic. Bar a few games, Fergie looked to overwhelm the opposition with relentless overloads until the game was won.

 

[Tyrion]

With Mourinho you see what happens when you rely on counter attacking football. His Real and Chelsea teams (specifically the second go round at Chelsea) fell apart the year after they won titles because teams figured out that if you don't give them space to counter into, they look devoid of ideas.

Regarding the bolded, that's not just true. We dominated the ball under Ferguson. Not in a tiki-taka manner, more forceful and dynamic. Bar a few games, Fergie looked to overwhelm the opposition with relentless overloads until the game was won.

I dont think it took a season to figure out what Mourinho was doing. Everyone knew it. They were just too good at it to stop them.

We dominated the game but not really the ball. If you look at all of his ex players turned coaches, they all play a typical British style: organised, counter attacking.

 

[adexkola]

I dont think it took a season to figure out what Mourinho was doing. Everyone knew it. They were just too good at it to stop them.

We dominated the game but not really the ball. If you look at all of his ex players turned coaches, they all play a typical British style: organised, counter attacking.

It probably didn't take a season, but the effectiveness of play of those sides dropped massively the year following their title wins, leading to Mourinho's sack.

On the bolded, huh? This is absolutely news to me. What were we doing with all that talent in midfield and attack then?

His ex players turned coaches... None turned out half as good as SAF. Not a slight on them, but counter-attacking football is the bread and butter of a lot of average coaches (and a few elite ones), so no surprises there.