What's the reason for our poor away record?

They need to have more players willing to stick out their chests in adversity. The minute we concede these players just slump instead of providing any kind of reaction
 
Can't score goals, even at home it's been a struggle unless Rashford scores were fecked and even if he scores we struggle to get a 2nd, Martial has been poor, after his injuries again, Bruno gets the odd goal , as normal we don't get pens when some have been nailed on .

They just cannot convert chances, and in the last 3 away games there has been loads.. all these games should have been different.
 
I'm not sure ETH is giving the required respect to how difficult away games are in the Premier League. I remember before the Liverpool game he said something along the lines of 'its the same grass and ball' etc...but there's an overwhelming amount of Data and evidence which suggests that, for whatever reason, it IS harder to win away.

I understand that if we want to win the league, we need to control games away from home, like we do at OT. That's fine. However, I feel that our current squad lacks the ability and the mentality to do this on a regular basis. Therefore, personally, I would have liked to see a more conservative approach on the road this year.

I think there is something in what several other posters have mentioned, which is that our current set-up allows us to be overran at times, and turning the tide in away games can be difficult for our 'mentality midgets' because the opposition get the wind in their sails as the crowd respond to even the most minor positive incident.

We saw how effective a basic middle-block and double-pivot was during Ole's tenure but we couldn't then win games at home. Imagine if a manager could set-up like Ole did away but as ETH is doing at home! Sacrilege I know to suggest abandoning a 'philosophy' to actually score more points...but hey, it's an idea!
 
I think it's a combination of the mental approach as a team, and also the way the opposition play at home versus at Old Trafford.

I think the confidence is fairly low away from home because at some point the poor results become self-perpetuating. We see a lot more individual errors as a result, especially at the back. Our attacking record is not great overall this season, but at home we defend well to give ourselves a chance, away from home individual errors and turning the ball over close to our goal become very costly. We're getting punished for that.

Then I also think we struggle more because the opposition press high, the crowd demand they play aggressively. We struggle way more against that than we do against the approach they bring to Old Trafford. We lose the ball in dangerous areas due to a lack of players comfortable to take the ball on the half turn. We also have players in Eriksen and Bruno who have a risky passing profile. The game is very stretched, which doesn't help the defensive structure and the aging midfield. It also means we struggle to build attacks very well against the press and that's probably why we're not scoring many.
 
De Gea (and to a lesser extent AWB/Dalot)

Opposition teams press higher when we're away, and that's been our Achilles' heel because of how deep our defensive line needs to be to accommodate DDG's distribution. The problem doesn't manifest itself as much at home or away against lower teams because those sides tend to sit back a bit more. The fact AWB/Dalot are so vulnerable to pressure is also a big factor as to why we're so liable to end up on the back foot when we try to play out from the back.

I know rightback doesn't get highlighted as a problem area very much, but I think anything that helps us in defensive transitions should be a big priority. If we could get a RB who does what Shaw can do at LB, it would almost as good as having another midfielder on its own. For me it's GK, then striker, then RB, then midfielder.
 
One thing that annoys me with this current team is their slow starts away from home and their continued shock that teams and crowds are well up for trying to beat Manchester United. We are a bigger scalp to most fans than the likes of City and Arsenal and everyone wants to beat us.

We really need to be at it from the start instead of jogging about trying to settle into the games.
 
It’s all down to De Gea really. Can’t build from the back at all so we have zero control of the game and it turns into a transition fest.
 
No goalscorer and no one to control possession in midfield. Our two biggest weaknesses and main priorities in my book
 
Tough away games need more numbers in midfield. There's no point having in effect 4 attackers if they're not getting the ball or as is the case with our players, they lose possession too easily.

De Gea doesn't help either. I thought they started ok against West Ham, and then completely against the run of play, De Gea gifts West Ham a lead. It must be so disheartening for the rest of the team to know they have a liability waiting to happen playing in goal behind them.

EtH is too much of a purist and not enough of a pragmatist. I hope he can adapt. I find his subsitutions, frankly, boring. He very often just switches like for like and doesn't use subs to change the style or formation of the team.
 
Born2Lose said:
Tough away games need more numbers in midfield. There's no point having in effect 4 attackers if they're not getting the ball or as is the case with our players, they lose possession too easily.

De Gea doesn't help either. I thought they started ok against West Ham, and then completely against the run of play, De Gea gifts West Ham a lead. It must be so disheartening for the rest of the team to know they have a liability waiting to happen playing in goal behind them.

EtH is too much of a purist and not enough of a pragmatist. I hope he can adapt. I find his subsitutions, frankly, boring. He very often just switches like for like and doesn't use subs to change the style or formation of the team.
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I’d argue he hasn’t been “purist” enough tbh.
 
arnie_ni said:
No goalscorer and no one to control possession in midfield. Our two biggest weaknesses and main priorities in my book
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This coupled with the lack of grit when we go behind to be Manchester United.

We see it at Old Trafford, it was a running meme for the longest time "don't score first at Old Trafford, it's a trap".

We don't see the fight or determination to regain the lead when away, with the lack of concentration/finishing and mental frailty being our biggest contribution to the loses.

We have such a lack of belief when we leave Old Trafford.
 
Lentwood said:
I'm not sure ETH is giving the required respect to how difficult away games are in the Premier League. I remember before the Liverpool game he said something along the lines of 'its the same grass and ball' etc...but there's an overwhelming amount of Data and evidence which suggests that, for whatever reason, it IS harder to win away.

I understand that if we want to win the league, we need to control games away from home, like we do at OT. That's fine. However, I feel that our current squad lacks the ability and the mentality to do this on a regular basis. Therefore, personally, I would have liked to see a more conservative approach on the road this year.

I think there is something in what several other posters have mentioned, which is that our current set-up allows us to be overran at times, and turning the tide in away games can be difficult for our 'mentality midgets' because the opposition get the wind in their sails as the crowd respond to even the most minor positive incident.

We saw how effective a basic middle-block and double-pivot was during Ole's tenure but we couldn't then win games at home. Imagine if a manager could set-up like Ole did away but as ETH is doing at home! Sacrilege I know to suggest abandoning a 'philosophy' to actually score more points...but hey, it's an idea!
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This is the point I was making too, with the side’s technical inefficiencies in areas and Bruno’s erraticness as a 10, the side needs a Kante/Caicedo type next to Casemiro to clean up the mess that ensues when we play a good opponent at their own ground. Fred is a stop gap for now but he’s as inconsistent as they come and can’t be trusted.
 
At the moment we see Arsenal being lauded as a well coached, well drilled team, can play home and away, the full 9 yards. Yet how long did it take Arteta to get it right. Even going back 12 months ago, some players were absolute car crashes like Xhaka etc.

Genuinely think the away form is in part on the players, their mentality and also on ETH learning the league on the job. Then you add in the owners and the structure above the first team, The Ronaldo situation, the glazers selling the club and gifting us Wout Weghorst (because they wouldn't get their hands in their pockets) to accommodate the departed Ronaldo and Glass Ankles, Martial keeping the clubs doctors in work.

For me the biggest thing is ETH learning about the league this season and also about his players. For every success story like Rashford and Shaw this year, Sancho has stood still and Fred dare I say has regressed (from a very low base) Hopefully he churn out a few more players in the summer who don't have the mentality and bring in players who can rise to the occasion
 
Lentwood said:
Imagine if a manager could set-up like Ole did away but as ETH is doing at home! Sacrilege I know to suggest abandoning a 'philosophy' to actually score more points...but hey, it's an idea!
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Let’s bring Sir Alex Ferguson back!
 
While our away form is clearly poor i would point out that in the away from home table we are fifth behind Arsenal(best away record) city, Newcastle and Brighton. While it is clearly nowhere near good enough to challenge for a title we are not in the relegation zone for away form, for context Liverpool are 9th in the away table but only a point behind us in the league.
 
We keep letting in more goals than we can score.
 
BluesJr said:
I’d argue he hasn’t been “purist” enough tbh.
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I wish he'd been more pragmatic on Thursday and shut the game down to try and take a point. I had a feeling after about 20 minutes in that they'd nick a goal somehow towards the end.

The same at say 3-0 or 4-0 against Liverpool so it didn't become arguably the worst United result for me post SAF. At some point in a hammering, it has to become a question of damage limitation.

Maybe our definitions are different, but to me a purist is someone like Pep, who'd rather lose the right way than win the wrong way.
 
We don't have goal scorers in this team.

Look at arsenal, saka, odegard, martineli can all get you goals.

We just have rashford and if he doesn't score, we struggle. Bruno's goal output has dried up, Antony and Sancho hardly ever score. Im not even going to comment on martial and wout.
 
Not good enough and not enough “away players”.

fergie used have players who only seemed to play away games when things were tough and needed to fight a bit more. We don’t have that no more.
 
Two games a week since the World Cup has meant less time to train for specific opponents and travelling eats into training time also.

I'm expecting an upturn in our patterns of play now that we'll have home games and recovery/training time.
 
It's because we are trying to play brave in away games with players that lack of composure on the ball. When you have keeper that can't pass the ball and gets panic when being pressed, midfielder who is not press resistant, and may be even a right back that is not good to retain possession then we will struggle to retain possession when being high pressed. Hence why keeper and press resistant midfielder are priority, and may be even a right back.
 
I would like to know where the team stays before away games. I feel like we changed our supplier relationship for accommodations when playing away and this is having a negative impact on the players. Maybe they aren't sleeping as well, maybe they don't like the hotel's amenities, maybe it's timing and logistics of arrivals departures etc.
 
RaddyRed said:
One thing that annoys me with this current team is their slow starts away from home and their continued shock that teams and crowds are well up for trying to beat Manchester United. We are a bigger scalp to most fans than the likes of City and Arsenal and everyone wants to beat us.

We really need to be at it from the start instead of jogging about trying to settle into the games.
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Yeah until Erik realises that's still the case we are gonna keep coming unstuck away in these hostile away atmospheres
 
Poor finishing. Leave alone lack of a striker, the finishing skills of our other attacking players is shocking. What are our accuracy% and conversion%. Pretty sure it will be low.
Passing to opposition. We just don't seem to be able to find our players. And not everything is down to trying to play quickly or something of that sort. We can't keep the ball for few secs and almost every player seems to be good at passing straight to an opposition players. It becomes critical when the keeper or defenders do it, but the others aren't much better.
Our decision making seems so slow. When we get the ball, we can't seem to make up our mind, probably because there are no good runs being made. But even otherwise, we dilly dally a lot and eventually lose any openings or the ball itself. Except maybe a couple of players, others seem to be waiting for things to happen.
 
Playing United is a final for most teams and fans. Opposition teams and fans are extra motivated.
 
Lack of controlling midfielders
Lack of killers in front of goal
Terrible goalkeeper
Can’t pass the ball

And most importantly, the team is filled with mental midgets who fall into bad habits when the pressure is on
 
It’s nothing new.

Remember under Ole when we had a ridiculous away winning streak but were rubbish at home?

Next season they’ll probably be the best team away from home, but keep dropping points at Old Trafford again

With consistency, they’d either win the league or get relegated
 
I think its simple enough to explain. Away games are always tougher as the crowd is behind the opposition team, the opposition players tend to be more confident and have belief to press harder, challenge for tackles and be more adventurous in attack.

This can be countered by a) Keeping hold of the ball so that the opposition enthusiasm comes down a bit b) Score early and take your chances to dampen their confidence c) Don’t make blunders & gift goals and give their crowd & team a lift.

Unfortunately, we suck at the first because apart from Shaw, Martinez & at a stretch Varane, Bruno & Eriksen, all our players are not at ease with the ball and cannot navigate in tight spaces. If we were to compare with the Madrid & City team yesterday, only Shaw & Martinez would make the cut in terms of ball control.
To compound the problem, we do not take our chances and constantly fluff our lines. Don’t even remember the last time one of our players scored screamers like Vinicius & KDB yesterday.

We have generally improved on the last part, but lately have reverted to type and are making silly mistakes. This is to do with mental & physical fatigue, a few players with questionable mentality, and the nature of the PL where opposition will have a period where they will go for it.

Solution is to buy a top striker, a playmaking CM, a ball playing GK and a RB and hope for continued progression from Garnacho and one of Amad / Pellistri.
 
Nervousness plays a part. Crowd get on top of you, a lot of our players lack mentality and/or confidence and seem to make more errors than when Old Trafford is behind them. You can tell on a nice day, with the sun out and Old Trafford behind them, they look up for it and seem to play much better no matter who the opposition is.

Away in a hostile environment, they can’t hack it. They start well enough but don’t take chances, then the game gets on top of them. It’s no surprise when you think back over the major errors that we’ve seen this season that most have come away from home.
 
Fatigue, confidence, have all contributed to our recent dip in form. The glaring fundamental weaknesses include not having any decent strikers and a goalkeeper more erratic than a British summer, which is adding to the work load of the back four.
There’s also problems on the right, with Antony squandering possession in key moments, too often going for ridiculous solo efforts from miles out.
We generally seem to be poor on delivering corners recently too.
 
Weak players mentally who are also as thick as mince.

The term ‘mentality monsters’ when referring to Klöpp’s Liverpool was embarrassing but if there is an opposite term, it is us.

It’s pathetic from us as a team
 
Our current issue is fatigue.

This is more or less the same team that went away to the Camp Nou after the World Cup and achieved an excellent platform for the 2nd leg win.
 
Fatigue causing poor performances, low energy and leading to low levels of belief. We constantly need to dig ourselves out of holes and we don't have the characters to do it. We're limping to the end of the season like a knackered marathon runner that gets helped, wobbly legs and all, over the finish line.
 
2 man midfield said:
Nervousness plays a part. Crowd get on top of you, a lot of our players lack mentality and/or confidence and seem to make more errors than when Old Trafford is behind them. You can tell on a nice day, with the sun out and Old Trafford behind them, they look up for it and seem to play much better no matter who the opposition is.

Away in a hostile environment, they can’t hack it. They start well enough but don’t take chances, then the game gets on top of them. It’s no surprise when you think back over the major errors that we’ve seen this season that most have come away from home.
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This, in a nutshell, is where we are.
 
2 man midfield said:
Nervousness plays a part. Crowd get on top of you, a lot of our players lack mentality and/or confidence and seem to make more errors than when Old Trafford is behind them. You can tell on a nice day, with the sun out and Old Trafford behind them, they look up for it and seem to play much better no matter who the opposition is.

Away in a hostile environment, they can’t hack it. They start well enough but don’t take chances, then the game gets on top of them. It’s no surprise when you think back over the major errors that we’ve seen this season that most have come away from home.
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You have absolutely nailed it perfectly
 
Lay said:
Lack of controlling midfielders
Lack of killers in front of goal
Terrible goalkeeper
Can’t pass the ball

And most importantly, the team is filled with mental midgets who fall into bad habits when the pressure is on
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Yeah these are all contributing factors
 
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