What's the alternative to bombing ISIS?

JPRouve said:
FFS, you are as pessimistic as I am.:(
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I am.

The world is not a nice place. It's high time people took stock and realised just what a state it's really in.

I try to be nice to my fellow person, I'd like to think I'm easy to get along with, never had an issue making friends, like to listen to people and engage them in conversation and I'm always willing to learn new things and yet the other day I got beaten up purely because I was in the wrong place in the company of people with no morals and the wrong upbringing.

Human beings are a horrible, horrible species and the small rays of sunshine that come out never outweigh the bad.
 
jackofalltrades said:
How's this for crazy ?

I was reading about Angola. At one time the situation was : The US was funding guerrillas to oust the government. The US oil companies had oil installations in the country. The Cubans were defending the installations of the Americans, which were being attacked by the guerrillas the US was funding.:confused:
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That is truly bizarre. :lol:

I suppose you haven't got the name of the book?
 
Sigma said:
That's working well in Syria at the moment...
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NinjaFletch said:
You mean exactly like they did during the Arab Spring which has led to the growth of IS?
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I mean, if you want to ignore the gaping hole that is Iraq, caused by western intervention, then sure. I don't see ISIS operating in a small section of a turbulent Syria.

Carolina Red said:
Did the Arab Spring have any redeeming qualities? Or did it just create power vacuums filled by worse regimes than before?
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Mixed bag.
 
matherto said:
I am.

The world is not a nice place. It's high time people took stock and realised just what a state it's really in.

I try to be nice to my fellow person, I'd like to think I'm easy to get along with, never had an issue making friends, like to listen to people and engage them in conversation and I'm always willing to learn new things and yet the other day I got beaten up purely because I was in the wrong place in the company of people with no morals and the wrong upbringing.

Human beings are a horrible, horrible species and the small rays of sunshine that come out never outweigh the bad.
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It's not healthy to think to much about that. I send you a virtual hug.;)
 
adexkola said:
I mean, if you want to ignore the gaping hole that is Iraq, caused by western intervention, then sure. I don't see ISIS operating in a small section of a turbulent Syria.
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Almost like IS grows in the very power vacuums you're arguing people should go out and create?
 
matherto said:
I am.

The world is not a nice place. It's high time people took stock and realised just what a state it's really in.

I try to be nice to my fellow person, I'd like to think I'm easy to get along with, never had an issue making friends, like to listen to people and engage them in conversation and I'm always willing to learn new things and yet the other day I got beaten up purely because I was in the wrong place in the company of people with no morals and the wrong upbringing.

Human beings are a horrible, horrible species and the small rays of sunshine that come out never outweigh the bad.
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Sorry to hear about your misfortune, but one 'horrible' would have been enough.

The long term future is indeed bleak, but the key is to snatch a little happiness before our luck runs out.
 
@JPRouve

You have indicated this general view on mankind in a short post in another thread (don't know which it was atm).

I have thought about an answer to that since then, but I don't have much time now. I'll post it in that thread in the next days.

Bottom line would be: It's all unspeakably shitty, but maybe it's not that bad.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Almost like IS grows in the very power vacuums you're arguing people should go out and create?
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It's controversial so I'm not going to state it precisely but there is a way to fill that hole. It has not happen in a long time though.
 
Kill them with kindness.

No but in all honesty it is pretty much impossible due to the fact so many so called isis fighters are born and bred in western countries. It really is a nightmare scenario for the 'global police' because they can't just go and wipe out a landscape and hope they surrender. That actually only exacerbates the situation imho.

Attacks in the name of a religion do occur regardless of geopolitical wars however I guess all those years killing innocent civilians for oil has come back to bite many arses. It really is a sad state of affairs atm because so many people are feeling the effects of a fews actions.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Almost like IS grows in the very power vacuums you're arguing people should go out and create?
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Eh?

How do organic populist uprisings create power vacuums? External interventions in established states create vacuums. ISIS is not an established state. It's a terrorist group operating within failed states. A coalition force dedicated to rooting them out and re-establishing law and order in the area is not creating a power vacuum.
 
Keyser Söze them - when you find out who did it you do everyone associated with the perps.
 
adexkola said:
Eh?

How do organic populist uprisings create power vacuums? External interventions in established states create vacuums. ISIS is not an established state. It's a terrorist group operating within failed states. A coalition force dedicated to rooting them out and re-establishing law and order in the area is not creating a power vacuum.
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Are you seriously asking?
 
adexkola said:
Eh?

How do organic populist uprisings create power vacuums? External interventions in established states create vacuums.
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Not exactly. They don't always create them, but the can if no legitimate governing force comes out of the organic movement. (Ex. French Rev -> Napoleon)

ISIS is not an established state. It's a terrorist group operating within failed states. A coalition force dedicated to rooting them out and re-establishing law and order in the area is not creating a power vacuum.
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I agree completely with this.
 
adexkola said:
Eh?

How do organic populist uprisings create power vacuums? External interventions in established states create vacuums. ISIS is not an established state. It's a terrorist group operating within failed states. A coalition force dedicated to rooting them out and re-establishing law and order in the area is not creating a power vacuum.
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that worked a treat in Somalia after rooting out the ICU. :wenger:
 
JPRouve said:
Military campaign on the ground and installation of very strong states in Irak, Syria and Libya. It will take a very long time, a lot of blood and a lot of diplomacy. The terrorist attacks will continue after that but it will diminish with time and lack of powerful/influential heads.
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How about we invent a time machine and go back to 2000 and tell US citizens not to vote for Dubya. Or better yet go back to some time in the fall of 1945 and slip a morning after pill to Barbara Bush so we could avoid so many problems in the future. Or perhaps travel back to the 80s and explain to the CIA that their bearded friends in the war against common Soviet enemies are going to feck them, and eventually the rest of the world right in the ass in a not so distant future. Then again, we'd probably use the time machine so much just to try and correct US State Dept bullshit alone it'll break down before we could address whatever terrible things Soviets and others were doing for the world to turn into this horrible mess by the year 2016.

Those states you mention WERE strong. Granted, they were not democratic and had some despicable dictators in charge. But until the West decided to get involved in their affairs things were relatively under control.
 
Not every state that partly lost control over it's territory is a failed state.

Also I don't think that getting troops in and reinstate the governing force is really that compelling an idea since the problem obviously is within the country itself. If we are going to assume that the intervention is somehow going to unfold differently then the reasoning as to why it's going to work this time hasn't been provided yet.
 
antihenry said:
How about we invent a time machine and go back to 2000 and tell US citizens not to vote for Dubya. Or better yet go back to some time in the fall of 1945 and slip a morning after pill to Barbara Bush so we could avoid so many problems in the future. Or perhaps travel back to the 80s and explain to the CIA that their bearded friends in the war against common Soviet enemies are going to feck them, and eventually the rest of the world right in the ass in a not so distant future. Then again, we'd probably use the time machine so much just to try and correct US State Dept bullshit alone it'll break down before we could address whatever terrible things Soviets and others were doing for the world to turn into this horrible mess by the year 2016.

Those states you mention WERE strong. Granted, they were not democratic and had some despicable dictators in charge. But until the West decided to get involved in their affairs things were relatively under control.
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Or better yet, invent a time machine where the Soviet Union never existed.
 
antihenry said:
How about we invent a time machine and go back to 2000 and tell US citizens not to vote for Dubya. Or better yet go back to some time in the fall of 1945 and slip a morning after pill to Barbara Bush so we could avoid so many problems in the future. Or perhaps travel back to the 80s and explain to the CIA that their bearded friends in the war against common Soviet enemies are going to feck them, and eventually the rest of the world right in the ass in a not so distant future. Then again, we'd probably use the time machine so much just to try and correct US State Dept bullshit alone it'll break down before we could address whatever terrible things Soviets and others were doing for the world to turn into this horrible mess by the year 2016.

Those states you mention WERE strong. Granted, they were not democratic and had some despicable dictators in charge. But until the West decided to get involved in their affairs things were relatively under control.
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You are preaching to the choir.;)
 
adexkola said:
Eh?

How do organic populist uprisings create power vacuums? External interventions in established states create vacuums. ISIS is not an established state. It's a terrorist group operating within failed states. A coalition force dedicated to rooting them out and re-establishing law and order in the area is not creating a power vacuum.
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This makes sense in Iraq. But what about Syria? Say a coalition retakes Raqqa, who then is the law and order? The Rebels or Assad?
 
antihenry said:
How about we invent a time machine and go back to 2000 and tell US citizens not to vote for Dubya. Or better yet go back to some time in the fall of 1945 and slip a morning after pill to Barbara Bush so we could avoid so many problems in the future. Or perhaps travel back to the 80s and explain to the CIA that their bearded friends in the war against common Soviet enemies are going to feck them, and eventually the rest of the world right in the ass in a not so distant future. Then again, we'd probably use the time machine so much just to try and correct US State Dept bullshit alone it'll break down before we could address whatever terrible things Soviets and others were doing for the world to turn into this horrible mess by the year 2016.

Those states you mention WERE strong. Granted, they were not democratic and had some despicable dictators in charge. But until the West decided to get involved in their affairs things were relatively under control.
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Or better yet, invent a time machine where the Soviet Union never existed.
 
The concept of war is a bit outdated really isn't it? We don't line our armies up for battle any more. There aren't even armies to fight against in some cases.

You can occupy a country but you can't occupy an idea.

The only way out of this is to fight fire with fire. Create a symbol, something that will scare the living bejeezus out of them. A symbol can never die, and it can be omnipresent. We need Batman.
 
Drop some breakfast baskets on them, then send them a text on the way home. Terrorists like that sort of thing.
 
You can 'end' this shite fast by wiping Khalifat or whatever you call this shit off the Earth's surface but why do that when it helps the military sector of economy. Then there's ISIS undercover all over the Europe that has already spread.
 
antihenry said:
Yes, It's Soviet Union that helped create Al Qaeda, invaded Iraq, bombed Lybia to hell and financed Arab Spring.
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Well yes, it was a direct consequence of the cold war that led to proxy campaigns in places like Afghanistan and elsewhere.
 
barros said:
First place on WW2 they didn't give 2 shits about civilians and in second place they used atomic bombs.
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You're correct. Still doesn't dispute the fact that dropping two atomic bombs on Japan ended WWII a few days later. The post I was responding to stated "Bombings will never solve anything." Now back to werewolf as I've got no desire to derail this thread any further.
 
Well, seeing as how so many of the terrorist attacks in Europe lately has been commited by people either returning from Syria or planning to go to Syria to join ISIS then I would suggest executing them. For example the guy killing a priest today was a failed Syria traveller.

To my knowledge a dead terrorist or dead terrorist wannabe is yet to kill anyone.

It is not feasible to imprison them all due to the numbers. Zero tolerance policy.

Today this may be seen as a barbaric policy, but I suspect that within few years it will be seen as necessity. ISIS and the ones who want to join ISIS are per definition dogs with rabies, treat them accordingly.
 
Breaking: the USSR bombed Nagasaki.


Edit: and FDR ran the gulags.
 
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