What's our best centre-back partnership?

Not having seen Martinez play I would say the best partnership is Maguire Varane.
Considering Varane's injury record we will probably end up with Maguire-Martinez as the starters for much of the season. Or maybe ETH will make Lindelof a better player, who knows...
Can't include Bailly because he can't string 5 games together without getting injured.
 
I think we will try to get Maguire and Martinez to work. They will have to play themselves out of the team. Varane is the only one that have the same level, but he is so injury prone that we can’t build around him. Lindelöf and Bailly are not good enough to start regularly.
 
I dont read too much into Maguire staying as captain as it was the easiest thing to do for TH when he hasnt even been here 5 minutes and managed a competitive game.
Martinez is going to be LCB and Maguire has been played on the right. I dont think any of our husual starting CD have started well. Verane too many back passes and Maguire Lindelof were a joke for the Melbourne goal, so nothing set in stone there. Bailley, however has had an almost faultless start and may give TH food for thought. There are also some media stories on us signing a new CB, so things could change again. With no other signing and if he is fit I think Verane Martinez might start the season and one of Lindelof or Bailley moved on. Jones will probably see out his contract without getting a game.
 
Hopefully Champions League and Nick Nack. Maguire has done nothing for a year which gets him anywhere near the starting line up. Bailly had two brainfarts against Melbourne, but still deserves to be ahead of him right now.
 
I think the season will start with Maguire and Varane, then depending on form and injury Martinez will come in for one of them.

We really need to sell some center backs we have 7 on the first team bucks currently, that mental for 2 positions. Doesn't seem to be anyone interested in any of them though
 
With so many options at the back, we need to start offloading some players. Telles, Mengi (loan?), Tuanzebe, Jones and possibly either Lindelof or Bailly. The squad looks bloated.
 
Ignoring the fact Varane was injured half of the season, I was not impressed by him at all. Surprisingly he's mentioned quite often here.
I have zero faith in guys like Varane/Pogba etc missing less games when getting older.

I want to see Martinez - Maguire, but Lindelof should get a lot of games as well. I don't expect Maguire AND Shaw to be so shite this season again, so I'm not that worried about defense line.
 
bringbackbebe said:
With so many options at the back, we need to start offloading some players. Telles, Mengi (loan?), Tuanzebe, Jones and possibly either Lindelof or Bailly. The squad looks bloated.
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Fully agree. City have sold Ake for 41 and on that basis we should be able to sell Lindelof for 50m, Bailey for 25(he is no worse than Ake) and Tuanzebe for 10. Also AWB for 25 and Williams for 10. That 120m could then be used to buy a striker and right back.

We still have four centre backs and Menghi - more than enough. Sell Maguire and keep Lindelof if you prefer but we no longer need to keep both.

If we could manage to do that and let Ronaldo go I would be very excited for the season ahead. We would finally finally have a balanced squad, decent youth knocking on the door, good coaching and low expectations/lack of pressure for the season ahead.
 
Varane back to his best with Lisandro could possibly be our new Rio and mini Vidic.
 
Martinez and Varane as the first XI, Maguire and Lindelof on the bench. The question is, what are we going to do with another 4 CBs (Bailly, Tuanzebe, Jones and Mengi), considering the fact that there is also Will Fish who features in pre-season.
 
It’s a make or break season for Maguire. Varane also has it all to prove in a United shirt. Neither covered themselves in glory last season so will be interesting to see how Lisandro does.
 
Speako said:
Hopefully Champions League and Nick Nack. Maguire has done nothing for a year which gets him anywhere near the starting line up. Bailly had two brainfarts against Melbourne, but still deserves to be ahead of him right now.
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Why cant fans have the same energy with all the players? Maguire has done nothing but Varane has? Please enlighten me how our defence was so much better when Varane played?

Firstly, he is injured after every other game.

Secondly, he was very poor in games, Newcastle and Atletico come to mind.

I guarantee if Maguire did the same thing Bailly did, it would be clipped up and posted every other post, so how does Bailly deserve to play?
 
romufc said:
Please enlighten me how our defence was so much better when Varane played?
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If somebody genuinely asks me that question, it’s pointless getting into a conversation. I suggest you sit back and seriously watch Harry Maguire’s performances last season, which placed him on the borderline of barely being a professional footballer, let alone the captain of Manchester United.
 
If Varane can convince us of his fitness, then I see no point in keeping Maguire. Lindelof and Bailly / Axel can be backup.

But given his fitness issues, we may want to keep Maguire and maybe sell Bailly
 
Speako said:
If somebody genuinely asks me that question, it’s pointless getting into a conversation. I suggest you sit back and seriously watch Harry Maguire’s performances last season, which placed him on the borderline of barely being a professional footballer, let alone the captain of Manchester United.
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Again, were we better without Maguire in defence last season? The whole team was bad including Varane who can't even stay fit.

its because you dont have an answer to the question, Varane has done nothing to suggest he should start for Manutd. Its that simple.
 
It's actually quite a nice problem having so many decent centrebacks for a change. I think probably any these combinations could do the job:

Varane + Lindelof - Experience and cunning, good against teams who focus on passing the ball around the final third.
Maguire + Lindelof - Strength and awareness, good against old-fashioned teams who like to play with a big man up top.
Martinez + Lindelof - Shithousery and calm, good against teams who play aggressively up front and need taking down a peg or three.
Bailly + Lindelof: Comedy and panache, a roll of the dice really but effective against teams 50% of the time.
Jones + Lindelof: The hipster choice, one to play when we've wrapped up the title for shits and giggles.

I'd be happy with any of them, minus the last one.
 
I think Maguire is our best and worst defender. If Ten Hag can get the best out of him, Maguire - Martinez would be our most dominating and modern duo I reckon.

Bailly on his day is up there, Varane is just too safe/negative and Lindelof really isn't that great on the ball apart from when he sees Rashford once every few games.

Aerial presence, 1 vs 1 ability and defensive positioning is ofcourse also very important.
 
Best partnership would probably be Martinez and Varane followed by Martinez and Bailey. But given Varane and Bailey can't seem to string more than 5 games together, it's unlikely. I thunj we will see Martinez and Maguire or Martinez and Lindeloff. Although only briefly seen Martinez play outside of youtube, I think Hag has signed him to own and take over the left centre back slot hence why we have seen Maguire on the right and Telles playing on the left side, and will probably be back up there. In reality I don't care who the back 2 are, I just don't want to witness defending like last year where I think Maguire was a huge culprit.
 
Speako said:
Hopefully Champions League and Nick Nack. Maguire has done nothing for a year which gets him anywhere near the starting line up. Bailly had two brainfarts against Melbourne, but still deserves to be ahead of him right now.
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neither have the others and surely if Bailly is still erratic in friendlies why do we want him playing in meaningful games?

Natener said:
Varane back to his best with Lisandro could possibly be our new Rio and mini Vidic.
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Real fan on here confirmed Verane is not as great as people make out and Ramos was the real leader. I am inclined to agree as he has been on the decline for a minute. I feel all our CB have major flaws.
 
6 years of either injury or comedy and people are still suggesting Eric Bailly should be anywhere near the team :wenger:
 
Will have to wait and see who the primary option is, but what is interesting is if we ever play a back 3 (maybe against big teams) we’d have a nicely balanced back 3 with Maguire and Martinez on the outside CBs stepping out with the ball and Varane sweeping.

Dalot Maguire Varane Martinez Malacia
 
Whatever our ‘best’ partnership is, the one we pick will include Harry Maguire if he is anything above ‘competent’. That’s just the way it has to be.

In reality, it was always extremely unlikely that all centre halves would start pre-season from zero with this ‘clean slate’ and Harry would only be first-choice if proven to be in the best two in that period. He was always going to be given preferential treatment, and only an absolute disasterclass would keep him out.
 
Don't know but I have a feeling it will be Martinez (LCB) and Maguire (RCB).

Two front foot aggressive defenders, with very good progressive play from the back.

Lindelof to cover Martinez and Varane to cover Maguire.

Next season, replace one of our right footed centre backs with a left footed centre back.
 
JB7 said:
6 years of either injury or comedy and people are still suggesting Eric Bailly should be anywhere near the team :wenger:
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But but but he has shown 60min of pre season football showing how greatness and his comical attributes.
 
Rozay said:
Whatever our ‘best’ partnership is, the one we pick will include Harry Maguire if he is anything above ‘competent’. That’s just the way it has to be.

In reality, it was always extremely unlikely that all centre halves would start pre-season from zero with this ‘clean slate’ and Harry would only be first-choice if proven to be in the best two in that period. He was always going to be given preferential treatment, and only an absolute disasterclass would keep him out.
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Nonsense post based on literally nothing. Why would be given preferential treatment by a manager that hadn't even met him until a couple of weeks ago? Because of the price tag? If it's about money then Varane is on nearly double Maguire's wage then surely he'd be the one getting preferential treatment? Because of the captaincy? You seriously believe he's going to pick a player he doesn't rate over several other options because he can wear an armband? Especially given he's well aware of the structure at the club - ie Bruno wearing it in the first pre-season game. The structure in place when Maguire was brought into the club is no longer in place and as such any supposed protection he might have had is long gone. The manager will pick who he wants to pick, and if that includes Maguire, then that's because he thinks he's part of his best 11 players to win that game.
 
JB7 said:
Nonsense post based on literally nothing. Why would be given preferential treatment by a manager that hadn't even met him until a couple of weeks ago? Because of the price tag? If it's about money then Varane is on nearly double Maguire's wage then surely he'd be the one getting preferential treatment? Because of the captaincy? You seriously believe he's going to pick a player he doesn't rate over several other options because he can wear an armband? Especially given he's well aware of the structure at the club - ie Bruno wearing it in the first pre-season game. The structure in place when Maguire was brought into the club is no longer in place and as such any supposed protection he might have had is long gone. The manager will pick who he wants to pick, and if that includes Maguire, then that's because he thinks he's part of his best 11 players to win that game.
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You say ‘based on literally nothing’ then immediately proceed to begin listing potential reasons. So yes, because he cost an obscene amount of money firstly. Because he is also the club captain and the fallout and distraction from stripping and benching him would likely be unwelcome. It is far easier and less political to keep Bailly on the bench, who has always been on the bench, and has a lower standing with the public. The fact that Bailly, for example, has performed better than Maguire is in pre-season is probably an inconvenience if anything.

Maguire has played ahead of better performing centre halves throughout last season, and he almost certainly wouldn’t have if he cost us £25m. Another interesting situation will manifest if Cristiano Ronaldo is fit and available this season. Far easier to keep Martial on the bench, or if Ronaldo starts on the bench, as soon as he comes on and gets a goal, he’ll be back in under the guise of having ‘won his place back’.

Quite simply, when a club invests £80m on a player, they want it to work, and will give it every opportunity to work. At a greater priority than cheaper players of a lesser standing. He would need to be Torres bad to not play, and even then, he was kept in the team a lot until it became ridiculous. Same as Alexis here. Same as Rooney as skipper. For you to think that football has suddenly changed because of ‘different’ Ten Hag is optimistic.
 
Rozay said:
You say ‘based on literally nothing’ then immediately proceed to begin listing potential reasons. So yes, because he cost an obscene amount of money firstly. Because he is also the club captain and the fallout and distraction from stripping and benching him would likely be unwelcome. It is far easier and less political to keep Bailly on the bench, who has always been on the bench, and has a lower standing with the public. The fact that Bailly, for example, has performed better than Maguire is in pre-season is probably an inconvenience if anything.

Maguire has played ahead of better performing centre halves throughout last season, and he almost certainly wouldn’t have if he cost us £25m. Another interesting situation will manifest if Cristiano Ronaldo is fit and available this season. Far easier to keep Martial on the bench, or if Ronaldo starts on the bench, as soon as he comes on and gets a goal, he’ll be back in under the guise of having ‘won his place back’.

Quite simply, when a club invests £80m on a player, they want it to work, and will give it every opportunity to work. At a greater priority than cheaper players of a lesser standing. He would need to be Torres bad to not play, and even then, he was kept in the team a lot until it became ridiculous. Same as Alexis here. Same as Rooney as skipper. For you to think that football has suddenly changed because of ‘different’ Ten Hag is optimistic.
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Great post. People seem to forget that ultimately football is a game played and managed by real people - not machines. So the optics of each decision matter just as much if not more than the logic behind it.
 
I'm sure it'll be Maguire and Martinez. For Varane to get ahead of Maguire he'll need to first get a chance (a Maguire suspension or injury) and second, immediately look undroppable. I doubt it happen and would expect Varane to move on next summer.
 
Rozay said:
You say ‘based on literally nothing’ then immediately proceed to begin listing potential reasons. So yes, because he cost an obscene amount of money firstly. Because he is also the club captain and the fallout and distraction from stripping and benching him would likely be unwelcome. It is far easier and less political to keep Bailly on the bench, who has always been on the bench, and has a lower standing with the public. The fact that Bailly, for example, has performed better than Maguire is in pre-season is probably an inconvenience if anything.

Maguire has played ahead of better performing centre halves throughout last season, and he almost certainly wouldn’t have if he cost us £25m. Another interesting situation will manifest if Cristiano Ronaldo is fit and available this season. Far easier to keep Martial on the bench, or if Ronaldo starts on the bench, as soon as he comes on and gets a goal, he’ll be back in under the guise of having ‘won his place back’.

Quite simply, when a club invests £80m on a player, they want it to work, and will give it every opportunity to work. At a greater priority than cheaper players of a lesser standing. He would need to be Torres bad to not play, and even then, he was kept in the team a lot until it became ridiculous. Same as Alexis here. Same as Rooney as skipper. For you to think that football has suddenly changed because of ‘different’ Ten Hag is optimistic.
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I listed two of the commonly mentioned reasons on this forum and then explained why they are nonsense - because they are.

You are completely disregarding the judgement of 4 managers at this point who have picked Maguire and putting it purely down to politics essentially which is nonsense. Bailly is unreliable due to being incredibly injury prone and erratic, both in terms of defending and discipline. We've seen it for six years at this stage. He's also not the right type of defender to play alongside Martinez, whereas arguments could be made that Maguire, Varane and Lindelof are all better suited alongside him. Maguire had a really bad season last year, but did we suddenly defend better when he wasn't in the team? No, indeed throughout the spell he missed in January we gave away a ridiculous amount of chances IIRC. This being an issue with Varane and Lindelof largely wanting to do the same job and neither of them pressing the ball. People can shout until they are blue in the face about "better performing centre halves" as much as they like, but the fact of the matter is that we were no better when he was out of the team.

I don't dispute that clubs are going to give their biggest investments every chance to work out. But you are also focusing solely on the transfer fee as the investment. Why? Maguire was a huge investment for the club, almost £130m with transfer fee and wages factored in, £80m and £190k a week over 5 years. But Varane was also a massive investment, £45m fee and £340k per week in wages over 4 years totaling around £115m. Why are you trying to suggest they would cast aside the huge investment in Varane and insist Maguire plays? It is an argument that makes no sense, surely you can see that?

And it's not just Ten Hag that has changed. The structure at the club that brought Maguire in has changed and they are very clear about how they wish to do things differently. Pogba, our record signing at £89m, was just released in case you missed it. If Maguire did have political protection previously, it is no longer there.
 
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JB7 said:
I listed two of the commonly mentioned reasons on this forum and then explained why they are nonsense - because they are.

You are completely disregarding the judgement of 4 managers at this point who have picked Maguire and putting it purely down to politics essentially which is nonsense. Bailly is unreliable due to being incredibly injury prone and erratic, both in terms of defending and discipline. We've seen it for six years at this stage. He's also not the right type of defender to play alongside Martinez, whereas arguments could be made that Maguire, Varane and Lindelof are all better suited alongside him. Maguire had a really bad season last year, but did we suddenly defend better when he wasn't in the team? No, indeed throughout the spell he missed in January we gave away a ridiculous amount of chances IIRC. This being an issue with Varane and Lindelof largely wanting to do the same job and neither of them pressing the ball. People can shout until they are blue in the face about "better performing centre halves" as much as they like, but the fact of the matter is that we were no better when he was out of the team.

I don't dispute that clubs are going to give their biggest investments every chance to work out. But you are also focusing solely on the transfer fee as the investment. Why? Maguire was a huge investment for the club, almost £130m with transfer fee and wages factored in, £80m and £190k a week over 5 years. But Varane was also a massive investment, £45m fee and £340k per week in wages over 4 years totaling around £115m. Why are you trying to suggest they would cast aside the huge investment in Varane and insist Maguire plays? It is an argument that makes no sense, surely you can see that?

And it's not just Ten Hag that has changed. The structure at the club that brought Maguire in has changed and they are very clear about how they wish to do things differently. Pogba, our record signing at £89m, was just released in case you missed it. If Maguire did have political protection previously, it is no longer there.
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I don’t get the relevance of Bailly’s injuries when he is fit. Nobody is suggesting he should play when injured. On the contrary, it is Maguire who is often played when injured, or not fully recovering. And individually, when fit, Bailly, Lindelöf and Varane all performed better than Maguire last season. The team conceded goals, clearly, but that is a lazy observation - I al speaking directly of the culpability in those goals.

You have dismissed my reasoning as ‘nonsense’, the gone on to say that you apparently ‘don’t dispute’ that clubs give every opportunity for their big signings to work out. Speaking of Varane, I have no idea if Varane will or will not play, I don’t know the point there. He was injured during pre-season.

The structure of the club has changedC the meaning of that is yet to be seen. Pogba was not ‘released’, clearly. Mata was released. And speaking of suitability, Maguire is the least suited centre half we have to defending large spaces and playing a high-line, which I understand to be Ten Hag’s preference. We will likely ask him to do it anyway, when the more obvious thing to do would be to ask Bailly to do it, because whether or jot we think he’s as good as Maguire or not - he’s clearly more suited to that. Maguire has no recovery pace or agility. He is suited to defending his penalty area, not his half. And that’s actually obvious, so automatically installing him as first choice cannot possibly be based on his suitability for it.
 
Rozay said:
I don’t get the relevance of Bailly’s injuries when he is fit. Nobody is suggesting he should play when injured. On the contrary, it is Maguire who is often played when injured, or not fully recovering. And individually, when fit, Bailly, Lindelöf and Varane all performed better than Maguire last season. The team conceded goals, clearly, but that is a lazy observation - I al speaking directly of the culpability in those goals.

You have dismissed my reasoning as ‘nonsense’, the gone on to say that you apparently ‘don’t dispute’ that clubs give every opportunity for their big signings to work out. Speaking of Varane, I have no idea if Varane will or will not play, I don’t know the point there. He was injured during pre-season.

The structure of the club has changedC the meaning of that is yet to be seen. Pogba was not ‘released’, clearly. Mata was released. And speaking of suitability, Maguire is the least suited centre half we have to defending large spaces and playing a high-line, which I understand to be Ten Hag’s preference. We will likely ask him to do it anyway, when the more obvious thing to do would be to ask Bailly to do it, because whether or jot we think he’s as good as Maguire or not - he’s clearly more suited to that. Maguire has no recovery pace or agility. He is suited to defending his penalty area, not his half. And that’s actually obvious, so automatically installing him as first choice cannot possibly be based on his suitability for it.
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Because we have seen over six years now that Bailly does not stay fit for long, so it is relevant. And there is no style of football where Bailly is stylistically better suited to play alongside a defender like Martinez than any of our other centre halves by the way; much in the same way that you should not have a pairing that both like to sit off, you should not have a pairing where both prefer to press for the ball, certainly not in the incredibly erratic style of Bailly. Maguire isn't better suited to defending the penalty by the way, I'm not aiming this to be any kind of defence for Maguire but there is a common misconception with the type of game he is suited to and I understand why, it is due to his lack of pace quite clearly, but he actually tends to defend better higher up the pitch in a compressed team - a lot of the issues come from the relationship between centre back and goalkeeper in that regard, as we have a goalkeeper that doesn't want to leave his line in or out of possession, which has tended to highlight our lack of pace defensively in recent years, so we'll have to see how that goes throughout the season with playing a higher line more consistently.

And I've said it's nonsense because it is nonsense - in suggesting Maguire will basically be an automatic pick due to the investment made, you are saying that Varane will not play because the manager has already said Martinez has been signed to be a first choice centre back. So it is quite clearly nonsense that we are supposedly picking Maguire due to him being a massive investment, if that means casting aside Varane who was also a massive (and much more recent) investment. If we picked the team on "investments" then Martinez would be sat on the bench at Malacia would be with the u23s.

And if you're suggesting Pogba wasn't released I'd love to know what you call it when the club doesn't offer a player a new deal in the final 12 months of his deal and as such allows them to leave the club without even trying to keep them.
 
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