What will our playing style (“game model”) be under INEOS?

LawCharltonBest

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James Ducker in April:

“The task of settling on a very defined, clear playing style and identity – the so-called “game model” – and ensuring they have a manager/head coach who fits with that, and that the club recruit according to that way of playing, will be shaped predominantly by Wilcox.”

I have yet to have any hint to what our “very defined, clear playing style” is judging by pre-season or by our signings/targets so far. Can it even be implemented with someone as stubborn as Ten Hag?

Any ideas?
 
Quick passing, often in transition. Not quite possession based, but will play it out from the back.
 
Pace, power, penetration, and unpredictability.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
Quick passing, often in transition. Not quite possession based, but will play it out from the back.
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Correct. Elements of possession at the back, but we're going to be an unpredictable team from an attacking perspective.
 
Just like others have pointed out, we will try play out from the back and attack quickly.

Most likely we will lose the ball a lot, and end up pumping the ball forward at our wingers.

So in other words; we won't be much different than we've been for the last 5 years. More intensity, but just as unstable and unable to control tempo and possession.

We will have to continue to mostly rely on individual moments to create chances. I can not see how it will be anywhere near consistent enough to properly challenge for the title. But given we have an alright squad and can suppress the injuries, it should be enough for anywhere in the top 4.

It's quite unfortunate that we don't show any inkling of caring about possession and actually dominating games or controlling the tempo. Until we take that step, I don't see us actually evolving that much as a team.

It does not seem like Ten Hag will ever want to take us in that direction, though. He seems happy to rely on individual moments and just play at a blistering pace, up and down the pitch.

This will also surely tire our players and lead to more injuries in the long run, compared to teams like City who can spend most of the time in possession, not having to make constant high intensity recovery runs, or trying to sprint forward every time we have the ball for the usual 5-10 seconds.

It's pretty much a hopeless tactic for league success in the long run. But it can work wonders in one-off games and for cup rund.
 
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We need to create a dominant style. Sick of playing lower teams and getting outplayed. Conceding dozens of chances. Especially at home
 
ifightdragons said:
Just like others have pointed out, we will try play out from the back and attack quickly.

Most likely we will lose the ball a lot, and end up pumping the ball forward at our wingers.

So in other words; we won't be much different than we've been for the last 5 years. More intensity, but just as unstable and unable to control tempo and possession.

We will have to continue to mostly rely on individual moments to create chances. I can not see how it will be anywhere near consistent enough to properly challenge for the title. But given we have an alright squad and can suppress the injuries, it should be enough for anywhere in the top 4.

It's quite unfortunate that we don't show any inkling of caring about possession and actually dominating games or controlling the tempo. Until we take that step, I don't see us actually evolving that much as a team.
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LVG had us dominating possession and everyone on here moaned.
 
matt10000 said:
LVG had us dominating possession and everyone on here moaned.
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Throwaway example. Possession is no good if you don't have a clear and functional plan of attack.

LvG had no good plan of attack, except for crosses. And his possession style was way too slow and deliberate, compared to both Arteta and Pep.

It goes without saying we need a better possession tactic than LvG, who was already an outdated manager back in 2015.

It also goes without saying that in most cases, teams playing on the counter attack, like we do, are not stable or dominant enough to consistently challenge for league titles over a 38 game season.
 
Hammondo said:
And it's a big reason why we are where we are, no actual football philosophy, a club devoid.
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Shall we cry until our tears drown us? Or maybe we could have a go at engaging with the OP's fecking question?

I don't see anything wrong with building a game model based upon what I quoted. But you obviously have a much better idea or you wouldn't be in this thread, would you?
 
Modernised version of pass and move called "Injuries and letting the other team have as many shots as they want"
 
didz said:
Shall we cry until our tears drown us? Or maybe we could have a go at engaging with the OP's fecking question?

I don't see anything wrong with building a game model based upon what I quoted. But you obviously have a much better idea or you wouldn't be in this thread, would you?
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The problem is that it's mostly vapid, slogans. A philosophy has to be much deeper than that. It's not easy and we are many years behind, But just listen to any good manager talk about their system.
 
Wait to see what Ruud brings in at Christmas when he takes over
 
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Tiber said:
Wait to see what Ruud brings in at Christmas
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Ruud-olph the red-clad striker
Had a very nice first touch
And if you ever saw it
You would even say it's clutch

PS: I hate the word clutch in that context, but rhymes are scarce at this hour.
 
It's far too early to tell given we've played one friendly with something resembling a first team and immediately lost two players to injury.

We'll know at the end of the season based on how we've played and if EtH is still here.

Anyone who tells you they already know what it is is selling you magic beans.
 
ifightdragons said:
Just like others have pointed out, we will try play out from the back and attack quickly.

Most likely we will lose the ball a lot, and end up pumping the ball forward at our wingers.

So in other words; we won't be much different than we've been for the last 5 years. More intensity, but just as unstable and unable to control tempo and possession.

We will have to continue to mostly rely on individual moments to create chances. I can not see how it will be anywhere near consistent enough to properly challenge for the title. But given we have an alright squad and can suppress the injuries, it should be enough for anywhere in the top 4.

It's quite unfortunate that we don't show any inkling of caring about possession and actually dominating games or controlling the tempo. Until we take that step, I don't see us actually evolving that much as a team.

It does not seem like Ten Hag will ever want to take us in that direction, though. He seems happy to rely on individual moments and just play at a blistering pace, up and down the pitch.

This will also surely tire our players and lead to more injuries in the long run, compared to teams like City who can spend most of the time in possession, not having to make constant high intensity recovery runs, or trying to sprint forward every time we have the ball for the usual 5-10 seconds.

It's pretty much a hopeless tactic for league success in the long run. But it can work wonders in one-off games and for cup rund.
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Amongst the weird self-catastrophizing within the post, you've basically just described the classic "counter-press" system which is arguably the 2nd most successful style of play this century. Its the style that Rangnick implemented in a lot of the red bull clubs, and the likes of Klopp and Nagelsmann used and adapted.

The issue we had last year was we didn't have the right players to progress the ball. And didn't have the legs in midfield. This style doesn't work without a workhorse in the middle.

Yoro replacing Varane, Ugarte (looking likely) replacing Casemiro and bringing Mazraoui or another backup fullback who is better than AWB will all help with this. It gives us a pitbull in the middle and more progressive passing from deeper areas.

We also have signed Zirkzee and given the likes of Amad a bigger role in the squad to increase our technical ceiling even more.
 
Hopefully not a glorified flavour of counter attacking football without imposing control on the game
 
ETH's Ajax was an entertaining watch but sometimes defensively naive. I watched the Dutch Cup final they lost as well as a handful of CL matches and they always entertained. Technical, generally high tempo football with a good blend of control and purpose.

If ETH can learn from his mistakes over the past 2 seasons we have the right manager to play the way United fans enjoy. Surely the hipsters who were fawning over him a couple of seasons ago can recall all this instead of chasing the latest shiny toy.
 
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I think we want to have ball players in defence and goal and quick players in attack with a midfield that aids quick transition. So we lure opponent into pressing while we play out from the back to create space behind their defence then we use vertical passes to the forwards to capitalize on their pace.
If the opponent have possession we want to counter press, win it quick and high and attack directly.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Possession for the sake of possession itself is meaningless and unproductive
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We never took the last step, unconscious automation so the players could perform
their tasks and express themselves. The result was laboured, slow play devoid of inspiration.
 
Redivy said:
Amongst the weird self-catastrophizing within the post, you've basically just described the classic "counter-press" system which is arguably the 2nd most successful style of play this century. Its the style that Rangnick implemented in a lot of the red bull clubs, and the likes of Klopp and Nagelsmann used and adapted.

The issue we had last year was we didn't have the right players to progress the ball. And didn't have the legs in midfield. This style doesn't work without a workhorse in the middle.

Yoro replacing Varane, Ugarte (looking likely) replacing Casemiro and bringing Mazraoui or another backup fullback who is better than AWB will all help with this. It gives us a pitbull in the middle and more progressive passing from deeper areas.

We also have signed Zirkzee and given the likes of Amad a bigger role in the squad to increase our technical ceiling even more.
Click to expand...

Trex said:
I think we want to have ball players in defence and goal and quick players in attack with a midfield that aids quick transition. So we lure opponent into pressing while we play out from the back to create space behind their defence then we use vertical passes to the forwards to capitalize on their pace.
If the opponent have possession we want to counter press, win it quick and high and attack directly.
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So far it looks like we are sticking with this style. You need a fit resilient squad for it with good depth. It could be glorious if we manage to assemble that squad and get them firing on all cylinders.
 
It doesn't really matter what Ineos want, all it matters is what is ETH able to do.
We have seen very few promising things in his first 2 years, don't think he is the man to implement any successful style.

In order to implement a certain style of way of playing as a club, you need valuable, experienced and knowledgeable people in the board who know what manager to bring, what players to transfer etc.
Don't think we have that.
 
Pronewbie said:
ETH's Ajax was an entertaining watch but sometimes defensively naive. I watched the Dutch Cup final they lost as well as a handful of CL matches and they always entertained. Technical, generally high tempo football with a good blend of control and purpose.

If ETH can learn from his mistakes over the past 2 seasons we have the right manager to play the way United fans enjoy. Surely the hipsters who were fawning over him a couple of seasons ago can recall all this instead of chasing the latest shiny toy.
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I haven't seen any evidence through our signings that he's trying to do what he did there at United. Also didn't he say last season that he can't play that style with United?

I get what the idea was with Antony, even if it's spectacularly failed so far. And Martinez. I don't understand what the role of Zirkzee will be. I still a year on don't know where Mount fits into his team. And I don't know what United are trying to do. With Liverpool under Klopp, Atletico under Simeone, city under Guardiola, Madrid under Ancelotti, you know how they're going to try to play. I haven't had that from United yet.
 
fergiewherearethou said:
It doesn't really matter what Ineos want, all it matters is what is ETH able to do.
We have seen very few promising things in his first 2 years, don't think he is the man to implement any successful style.

In order to implement a certain style of way of playing as a club, you need valuable, experienced and knowledgeable people in the board who know what manager to bring, what players to transfer etc.
Don't think we have that.
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If I'm understanding it correctly I think the bolded part is a bit harsh. Berrada and Ashworth come with a lot of experience and knowledge. But they haven't even been in place a month yet. Wilcox I know less about but apparently he was behind the city youth team playing a certain way, so we'll see.

I'm more confused about them keeping Ten Hag rather than getting their own manager if they want to set a "clear way of playing" from the off. I can only imagine the manager(s) they wanted weren't available yet.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
I haven't seen any evidence through our signings that he's trying to do what he did there at United. Also didn't he say last season that he can't play that style with United?

I get what the idea was with Antony, even if it's spectacularly failed so far. And Martinez. I don't understand what the role of Zirkzee will be. I still a year on don't know where Mount fits into his team. And I don't know what United are trying to do. With Liverpool under Klopp, Atletico under Simeone, city under Guardiola, Madrid under Ancelotti, you know how they're going to try to play. I haven't had that from United yet.
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We saw bits of it in his first season. It's also been stated that it has to be a multi year transition due to contracts and player transfers. It won't be 1:1 obviously just like how the likes of Pep, Ancelotti and even Klopp have also adapted and evolved based on multiple factors.
 
Pronewbie said:
We saw bits of it in his first season. It's also been stated that it has to be a multi year transition due to contracts and player transfers. It won't be 1:1 obviously just like how the likes of Pep, Ancelotti and even Klopp have also adapted and evolved based on multiple factors.
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What was our playing style in his first season? I didn't see one

I also think the other managers you mentioned had a style in motion by their 3rd season. You could also see through their targets and signings what they wanted to do. Our targets still seem very random and our playing style in pre-season is still nothing.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
What was our playing style in his first season? I didn't see one

I also think the other managers you mentioned had a style in motion by their 3rd season. You could also see through their targets and signings what they wanted to do. Our targets still seem very random and our playing style in pre-season is still nothing.
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https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/erik-ten-hag-manchester-united-improvements-tactics-2022-23/

Thought we were enjoyable to watch till the Eriksen injury and Casemiro suspension. Martial was also very important in bringing the wingers into the game, hence the Zirkzee signing.

We also want a young Casemiro in Ugarte and a technically better rb than AWB is. We also want GKs and CBs suited to playing a higher defensive line.

The outline is clear enough for me, whether we can execute is another topic for discussion.

My opinion is that the club will need to bring in the CB and DM in time for the start of the season to execute on just the outline, failing which, I can see ETH getting the sack by Oct / Nov.
 
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