What was it with Mark Bosnich?

spinoza · Oct 16, 2002

I have to say though Elfie, even though I love Barthez and all, the one of two enduring memories I have of him is being desperately wrong footed by Roberto Carlos' free kick at the Tournoi.

The other one is of him in a United shirt, wrong footed by some lucky striker and moving the wrong way, but somehow changing direction in mid-stride and making a beautiful save.

Fabien's back!
<img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />

Elfie · Oct 16, 2002

Originally posted by spinoza:
I have to say though Elfie, even though I love Barthez and all, the one of two enduring memories I have of him is being desperately wrong footed by Roberto Carlos' free kick at the Tournoi.

<hr></blockquote>

Oh that free-kick was remarkable, everybody thought that the ball would be out, and it eventually came in.

I prefer to remember him jumping over Ronaldo (France-Brazil 1998)...

spinoza · Oct 16, 2002

Originally posted by Elfie:


Oh that free-kick was remarkable, everybody thought that the ball would be out, and it eventually came in.

I prefer to remember him jumping over Ronaldo (France-Brazil 1998)...<hr></blockquote>

You got me there

That game was amazing in so many ways. Along with everyone else I was expecting another banana from Roberto Carlos, but instead we had a balding Frenchman come in and prove himself the second greatest midfielder on the planet.

Can't believe we could've got him for 4 mill quid back in 96.

dicko · Oct 16, 2002

Originally posted by Jason F:
Why Boz isnt Chelseas number 1 is anyones guess <hr></blockquote>

My guess is because Ranieri thinks he has two better keepers. I think Fergie gave him away because he thought we were better off without him. I prefer to trust the judgement of these two experienced managers who have dealt with Bosnich daily than supporters, particularly supporters in foreign countries who are probably biased in favour of their fellow countrymen.

Jason F · Oct 17, 2002

I can see that im banging my head against a wall here but i will try to explain my point of view again.

Firstly dont get me wrong i admire Fergie, he is definitly a great manager, i admire the way he runs the team, my problem with him is he cant admit mistakes and occasionally if a player falls out of favor they are treated terribly, Boz was only one of them, i feel the same way about Stam and Yorkie too.

While i do not think Boz was overweight remember when he signed for us he hadnt being playing at Villa coz of injury and being dropped for being linked with us, he was probably unfit, its always been said that RVG was super fit anyhow.

I stand by the comments that Barthez is best known but far from best keeper in the world, i dont even rate him in the top 5 in the prem. The French defence made him look good, he can make super saves and be then be totally crap. I believe United would have won the league and possibly Europe were it not for the bald headed clown Barthez.

I dont believe that Boz is arrogant, i have never had any problem with the way he has conducted himself and I also believe he would fit in just fine at Man Utd if had of been given a chance, saying he didnt fit in and wasnt a real United type player is a joke.

I was happy when Boz signed for United, at the time he was the best keeper in England and in the best form of his life, i thought maybe we should have gone for someone like Buffon or Toldo at the time but i was happy with Boz. like i said a good team shouldnt have to rely on a keeper to kick the ball clear, the defence should be able to handle it.

Boz would be Chelseas number 1 now if not for injury, and he should never have gone to Chelsea to be number one because Cudicini was already entrenched as number one there, and as we know its hard to be removed from number 1 if your doing ok, unless your name is Mark Bosnich.

Look at Barthez, he didnt deserve to be 1 at United but was, Seaman didnt deserve to be 1 at Arsenal and was and im sure we can all name others.

dicko · Oct 17, 2002

Originally posted by Jason F:
if a player falls out of favor they are treated terribly, Boz was only one of them, i feel the same way about Stam and Yorkie too.<hr></blockquote>

I don't know the full details about Stam. I think Fergie knew more about his injury than he let on. This would explain the drug ban. I doubt if the full story will ever be known so all we can is guess.

Using Yorkie as an example of mistreatment is not sensible. When Yorkie left most on here seemed glad he left, although they wished him well. The Yorke we sold to Blackburn was not the Yorke we had in 1999. He became lazy and appeared more interested in the bright lights. The treatment he got was deserved.

We need players who are hungry for success. Players like Beckham, Giggs, Butt, the Nevilles, Solksjaer, Scholes and Keane have won 4 or 5 premierships each and most a European Cup. Players of only slightly lower ability like Owen, Gerard, Hyppia etc have won nothing.

RUnited · Oct 17, 2002

Originally posted by dicko:


I don't know the full details about Stam. I think Fergie knew more about his injury than he let on. This would explain the drug ban. I doubt if the full story will ever be known so all we can is guess.

Using Yorkie as an example of mistreatment is not sensible. When Yorkie left most on here seemed glad he left, although they wished him well. The Yorke we sold to Blackburn was not the Yorke we had in 1999. He became lazy and appeared more interested in the bright lights. The treatment he got was deserved.

We need players who are hungry for success. Players like Beckham, Giggs, Butt, the Nevilles, Solksjaer, Scholes and Keane have won 4 or 5 premierships each and most a European Cup. Players of only slightly lower ability like Owen, Gerard, Hyppia etc have won nothing.<hr></blockquote>

dicko, maybe you're missing the concept.

Players who have won so much like our players are losing thirst for the game. This has happened so many times since we have won the European Cup. Our bad patches are mainly because we don't push hard enough.

Before the Everton game I have not seen us score so late in the game in so long... and besides, we still haven't scored a single goal this season in the first half...

I believe we need players who have won nothing to push us harder. Players like Ruud and JSV were meant to do this for us...

And the liverpool crop won themselve 5 trophies in one season 2 years ago. That achievement is a great one that reminded me of the days Liverpool dominated the game.

Jason F · Oct 17, 2002

Originally posted by RUnited:


Players who have won so much like our players are losing thirst for the game. This has happened so many times since we have won the European Cup. Our bad patches are mainly because we don't push hard enough.

.<hr></blockquote>

I agree with ya mate, some players who have been at the club might not have the hunger as they did earlier in their careers, even Keano said players were slacking off and not showing the same desire as they did before.

As for the goal scoring problem, i dont know if you can attribute that to a lack of desire, i think a lack of striking options and the style of play that teams are employing against us is the problem, its scary to think that sometimes we dont even look like scoring!

Wibble · Oct 17, 2002

Originally posted by Jason F:
occasionally if a player falls out of favor they are treated terribly, Boz was only one of them, i feel the same way about Stam and Yorkie too.

I doubt we will ever know the full story about Stam but I suspect that it was either a) drugs or b) a bloody good offer for a player who had lost alot of pace. His book might not have helped but i don't think it was the main reason. Even more so than Bosnich, York was responsible for his own downfall.

While i do not think Boz was overweight remember when he signed for us he hadnt being playing at Villa coz of injury and being dropped for being linked with us, he was probably unfit, its always been said that RVG was super fit anyhow.

He was fit for the entire summer, we wouldn't have signed him if he wasn't. Lack of training was the problem.

I stand by the comments that Barthez is best known but far from best keeper in the world, i dont even rate him in the top 5 in the prem. The French defence made him look good, he can make super saves and be then be totally crap. I believe United would have won the league and possibly Europe were it not for the bald headed clown Barthez.

He's not the best in the world but easily in the top 5 PL keepers. It is absolutely ludicrous to say he cost us the CL (or the League for that matter).

I dont believe that Boz is arrogant, i have never had any problem with the way he has conducted himself

Have you never heard him being interviewed? Have you never heard former team mates being interviewed on the subject? Including Aussie mates I might add. Arrogance is in his nature. It is in the nature of many sportspeople - often what makes them special (although not in his case).

I also believe he would fit in just fine at Man Utd if had of been given a chance, saying he didnt fit in and wasnt a real United type player is a joke.

He was given a chance and he didn't fit in. Any player who is content to earn a shit load of money for warming the bench is IMO not a United type player.

I was happy when Boz signed for United, at the time he was the best keeper in England and in the best form of his life

Bollocks. Good but not that good.

 like i said a good team shouldnt have to rely on a keeper to kick the ball clear, the defence should be able to handle it.

So the treble winning team weren't a good team then?

Boz would be Chelseas number 1 now if not for injury, and he should never have gone to Chelsea to be number one because Cudicini was already entrenched as number one there

He played well and was then injured but Cuducini on current form is far far better than Bosnich was at his very best. And Cuducini was third choice keeper when Bosnich signed. It was only after Bosnich was injured at the start of Ranieri's reign that Cuduchini got his chance. And hasn't he taken it well.

I know its hard to be removed from number 1 if your doing ok, unless your name is Mark Bosnich.

So he is a minority of one. I wonder why? Attitude maybe? Or a conspiracy. Bates and Fergie are such good mates after all

Look at Barthez, he didnt deserve to be 1 at United but was, Seaman didnt deserve to be 1 at Arsenal and was and im sure we can all name others.

Says you. But given your complete blindness to the truth concerning Bosnich I don't think we can rely on your opinions too much. Fergie and Wenger probably know better than you don't you think?<hr></blockquote>

Jason F · Oct 17, 2002

I agree something else may have been afoot in the Stam case but surely it would have been preferable for the club to help him through it?

Yorkie didnt actually do anything wrong before he was sold, really in his entire OT career he never really messed up, his form wasnt the best towards the end, i think he would have got better again with a decent run.

As for Boz being fit, he had to have keyhole surgery on his shoulder during his medical to check out the damage, Boz was injured when he signed, the OT med staff deemed it not too threatening or do we forget that? of course he was unfit, he was injured.

Barthez cost United many a game, Arsenal, Liverpool.....ring any bells? if you add those points plus the rest we would have been closer to the top AT LEAST! CL maybe not but a different keeper may have changed the story.

I have seen him interviewed and havent heard a bad word said about by anyone but Fergie, so if this case show me a link to one of them?

For the FINAL TIME, Boz didnt sit on the bench to earn money, he stayed bcoz he wouldnt leave for anything other than a free transfer that the club wouldnt give him, he left when they did.

As for the treble, when the feck did i say the treble team wasnt good? i said a team should be able to deal with a ball without backpasses.

Cudicini on current form is better than Bosnich at his best? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
your taking the piss right?

My blindness to the truth says he who is blinded by god knows what and seems to think think that SAF is perfect and can do know wrong, he who thinks that SAF is bigger than the club.

Apart from that your telling me Barthez deserved to be number one ahead of Roy Carroll at the time? That Seamans form deserves to have him ahead of Robinson or even James for England? Martyn should have been Leeds number 1 over Robinson last year? Myhre wasnt better than Gerrard at Everton? need i continue???? There is a list of many better keepers who are stuck playing number 2 even though they are in better form than the first choice keeper, if you cant see that then you are truly a bigger more misguided blind muppet than i gave you credit for.

SalfordMan · Oct 17, 2002

Ferguson as far as i know was sick of his lazy attitude.This is also an absolute fact i have a photograph of Bosnich skinning up a spliff honest at a party he was at.If fergie knew about this then that explains it all.

dicko · Oct 17, 2002

Originally posted by RUnited:


dicko, maybe you're missing the concept.

Players who have won so much like our players are losing thirst for the game. This has happened so many times since we have won the European Cup. Our bad patches are mainly because we don't push hard enough.

Before the Everton game I have not seen us score so late in the game in so long... and besides, we still haven't scored a single goal this season in the first half...

I believe we need players who have won nothing to push us harder. Players like Ruud and JSV were meant to do this for us...

And the liverpool crop won themselve 5 trophies in one season 2 years ago. That achievement is a great one that reminded me of the days Liverpool dominated the game.<hr></blockquote>

Liverpool did not win 5 trophies in a season, they won five in a year. The trophies I mentioned in my post were the Champions League and the Premiership because they are the ones that matter.

Liverpool's 5 included 2 glorified friendlies (Charity Shield and Super Cup) and what we regard as a reserves tournament (League Cup). The Eufa Cup is a decent trophy but we were too good to play in it because we were in the Champions League. That leaves the FA Cup. Liverpool won that while we strolled to another Premiership. I know what I would rather have.

dicko · Oct 17, 2002

Originally posted by RUnited:


dicko, maybe you're missing the concept.

Players who have won so much like our players are losing thirst for the game. This has happened so many times since we have won the European Cup. Our bad patches are mainly because we don't push hard enough.

Before the Everton game I have not seen us score so late in the game in so long... and besides, we still haven't scored a single goal this season in the first half...

I believe we need players who have won nothing to push us harder. Players like Ruud and JSV were meant to do this for us...

And the liverpool crop won themselve 5 trophies in one season 2 years ago. That achievement is a great one that reminded me of the days Liverpool dominated the game.<hr></blockquote>

What concept I am missing? I mentioned the lack of hunger and compared our player's trophies with the Liverpool players.

It is quite possible that Owen and Gerrard will end their careers without a premiership medal. They have mentioned that at England gatherings they get jealous when they see United players who are multi-premiership winners. This must be a strong motivator. The difference between first and second is rarely great and often factors other that football ability decide the winners. These factors include injuries, run of the ball, referee decisions, confidence and, not least, motivation.

RUnited · Oct 18, 2002

Originally posted by dicko:


What concept I am missing? I mentioned the lack of hunger and compared our player's trophies with the Liverpool players.

It is quite possible that Owen and Gerrard will end their careers without a premiership medal. They have mentioned that at England gatherings they get jealous when they see United players who are multi-premiership winners. This must be a strong motivator. The difference between first and second is rarely great and often factors other that football ability decide the winners. These factors include injuries, run of the ball, referee decisions, confidence and, not least, motivation.<hr></blockquote>

I agree.

I think Liverpool lads lack continuos pushes. When they face a disappointment in losing a game they tend to perform badly in the game after. Maybe they're a young squad, or they're just not born winners.

devilish · Oct 18, 2002

Last seasons failures came for different reasons

1 Mc claren wasnt decently replaced

2 There was an aura of uncertianity around Manutd future( remember fergie was leaving)

3 the bomb was finally dropped over a cracked defense (for too many years forgotten)

4 we needed time to adapt to the new 4-5-1 formation and that costed us points

5 Stam and Cole werent decently replaced (Blanc and Forlan arent up to the level)

This are the real resons behind Manutd failures

Wibble · Oct 18, 2002

Originally posted by Jason F:
I agree something else may have been afoot in the Stam case but surely it would have been preferable for the club to help him through it?

Nope. Best transfer Fergie ever did. 16 million for a player well past his best.

Yorkie didnt actually do anything wrong before he was sold, really in his entire OT career he never really messed up, his form wasnt the best towards the end, i think he would have got better again with a decent run.

Did nothing wrong? Late back from international duty, looked like he didn't give a toss when he did play, couldn't keep his wedding tackle out of the newspapers for more than 3 hours.

As for Boz being fit, he had to have keyhole surgery on his shoulder during his medical to check out the damage, Boz was injured when he signed, the OT med staff deemed it not too threatening or do we forget that? of course he was unfit, he was injured.

You can do fitness training with an injured shoulder. He turned up like a tub of lard thus showing extreme disrespect to SAF, the players and the club. He surely must have known that since he had previously gone back on his word to Fergie that he needed to be on his best behavious.

Barthez cost United many a game, Arsenal, Liverpool.....ring any bells? if you add those points plus the rest we would have been closer to the top AT LEAST! CL maybe not but a different keeper may have changed the story.

Barthez didn't cost us the PL or the CL is what I said and I stand by that. Football is a team game after all.

I have seen him interviewed and havent heard a bad word said about by anyone but Fergie, so if this case show me a link to one of them?

I have seen him interviewed on Aussie TV loads of times and he is a conceited and arrogant. When he signed for United I remember so of his teamates from the National squad were asked how they though he would cope with Fergie given his attitude. Even people who liked him/mates didn't deny that he is arrogant.

For the FINAL TIME, Boz didnt sit on the bench to earn money, he stayed bcoz he wouldnt leave for anything other than a free transfer that the club wouldnt give him, he left when they did.

Yes he did and he is doing it now. He stayed on the bench at United waiting for a free because he wanted as big a wage as possible when he moved on and if United had got a fee he wouldn't have been paid as much. Money is his main motivation it would seem.

As for the treble, when the feck did i say the treble team wasnt good? i said a team should be able to deal with a ball without backpasses.

My point was that the treble team relied heavily on backpasses. So by your definition they couldn't have been a good team.

Cudicini on current form is better than Bosnich at his best? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
your taking the piss right?

I think Cuducini is a great keeper. A far more complete keeper than Bosnich. Bosnich went from good to average when the backpass rule came in. Being a good stopper isn't enough anymore.

My blindness to the truth says he who is blinded by god knows what and seems to think think that SAF is perfect and can do know wrong, he who thinks that SAF is bigger than the club.

I have no illusions asto SAF's personality. Unless he was stupid neither should Bosnich when he signed, SAF is the boss and his word goes.

Apart from that your telling me Barthez deserved to be number one ahead of Roy Carroll at the time?

I think he does even though I'm not convinced by Barthez.

That Seamans form deserves to have him ahead of Robinson or even James for England?

James is a liability. Robinson is probably the best English keepr at the moment. But only given Seaman's rapid decline seen over the last 2/3 England games.

Martyn should have been Leeds number 1 over Robinson last year?

Martyn is aging and Robinson improving. Robinson is now the Leeds #1 - seem like a natural changing of the gueard to me.

Myhre wasnt better than Gerrard at Everton?
Don't know and I don't care.

There is a list of many better keepers who are stuck playing number 2 even though they are in better form than the first choice keeper, if you cant see that then you are truly a bigger more misguided blind muppet than i gave you credit for.

Why on earth would so many managers leave their best keepers on the bench? Or is it simply that they don't agree with you? BTW I like the muppet reference. Throwing insults suggests that deep down you know you aren't right.<hr></blockquote>

Neil Thomson · Oct 18, 2002

Originally posted by devilish:
Last seasons failures came for different reasons

1 Mc claren wasnt decently replaced

2 There was an aura of uncertianity around Manutd future( remember fergie was leaving)

3 the bomb was finally dropped over a cracked defense (for too many years forgotten)

4 we needed time to adapt to the new 4-5-1 formation and that costed us points

5 Stam and Cole werent decently replaced (Blanc and Forlan arent up to the level)

This are the real resons behind Manutd failures <hr></blockquote>
All of which Keano discounts in his book. He puts it solely down to lack of desire, and suggests that Alex agrees with him. I'd like to think he was wrong, because the above are fixable, or fixed.

Jason F · Oct 20, 2002

Originally posted by Wibble:
[QB][/QB]<hr></blockquote>

Maybe Fergie did do a great deal on Stam, maybe he didnt...It looks like he did given Stams decline at Lazio it would appear so but we dont know what would have happened had he of stayed. As for saying Stam was past his best......well look who we replaced him with? Laurent Blanc, a player whos best years are ahead of him with such scorching pace!

I suppose you think that was great business too? from a money side sure, but from a playing side?

Onto Yorkies defence, he was late back from international duty once? so what he then retired from internationals to benefit the club. I would disagree that he looked like he didnt car and i thought he was one of United best players on the Malaysian pre season tour from the highlites. As for his wedding tackle, like i said the press often hunt ppl like Dwight for a story, apart from that it didnt affect his football did it?

As for Bosnichs training, have you ever tried to run with an injured shoulder? its like being knifed in the back everytime your foot hits the ground. you cant swim with one either so what would you propose he do? liposuction?

I dont recall anyone saying he disrespected anyone unless i missed something?

Onto Barthez, of course football is a team game and would have been preferable if the players who scored against him were shut down by the defence but they werent, fact is Barthez should have saved some of them and didnt, which on more than one occasion cost us points that would have allowed us a closer run AT LEAST at Arsenal.

Bosnichs so called arrogance, Well like i said he has never come across that way to me and iv never seen another player for either Oz or Man Utd call him arrogant, his attitude stemed from his ability to get himself into trouble via incidents like the Hitler salute.

Bosnich stayed on for a free because he didnt want Utd collecting a free on a player they signed for nothing, esp after a season and the way he was dumped to training with the kids. It had nothing to do with wages, this was clear from day one, he said it in numerous interviews as did his management and journalists in Australia an the UK. As for collecting wages for sitting on the bench, isnt that what alot of players do? dont they have a right to play for a club off the bench? the way your argument stands Ricardo is just sitting on his fat arse collecting wages, so is Carroll, Butt was for awhile there, David May, Luke Chadwick, Solskjaer? what about other teams? Wright at Arsenal, Oleg Luzhney, Kanu recently? Kirkland at Liverpool? Biscan? need i continue or have you got the point yet?

I dont know what your talking about with the treble team, that was one of the best Utd teams i have ever seen, backpasses or not, my point is a team shouldnt rely too heavily on them.

We will have to disagree on Cudicini, i think is very over rated, he might have a better kick than Boz but is shot stopping, catching, cross handling, penalty record and everything trials Bosnich by light years.

Barthez V Carroll, At the time Barthez was out of form and Carroll should have been number one, that doesnt still stand now because Barthez has improved and is starting to look ok.

My point about the other goalkeepers was this, its not that managers are leaving there best keeper on the bench, its more that they are leaving out of form keepers in the team and leaving the form keepers out, for example we know that Barthez is a better goalkeeper than Carroll, he has proven that, fact was he was out of form and Carroll should have been 1 on form, same goes for all the other keepers too.

As for the muppet reference, the statement is not intended as an insult, i mean that it is clear that you only take on board what people like SAF say. what he says goes so to speak, there is no consideration that he may be wrong or may be twisting the truth to suit his on ends.

Elfie · Oct 20, 2002

Originally posted by Jason F:


I stand by the comments that Barthez is best known but far from best keeper in the world, i dont even rate him in the top 5 in the prem. The French defence made him look good, he can make super saves and be then be totally crap. I believe United would have won the league and possibly Europe were it not for the bald headed clown Barthez.

<hr></blockquote>

Yes, a clown, that's what he is. Goethals, Tigana, Ferguson, Jacquet, Lemerre and now Santini must be totally blind to trust him. Obviously you know better than them.And those who have elected as best keeper in the world surely don't know anything about football <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" />

To say that Barthez is only good because of the French defence is stupid. Some people say that without knowing what they're talking about.Just look at France-Uruguay this summer. The defence was shit but Fab managed to keep a clean sheet with several great saves.

Us French know that he has saved us many times, just ask Ronaldo (France-Brazil), Chevchenko and co...For example, during the Euro 2000, he made crucial saves at each game (for example, an incredible save from Xavier a few minutes before the end of the France-Portugal game)and set up the equalizer goal during the final with a wonderful clearance. I bet you haven't seen many France games but me I tape all the games and I can list all his good and crucial saves.

Anyway he was good before joining France. He won the Champion's league with Marseille and once again, that day, Marseille won thanks to Boli's goal but also thanks to his saves.

Barthez will always make more mistakes than Bosnisch, because Bosnisch doesn't take any risk. He just stays on his line waiting for the shots. Barthez anticipates, participates to the game, helps his defenders, because he's better with his feet. He can set up goals, make decisive passes (he made one for France during the WC 1998) and the strikers really appreciate his distribution (Ferguson : his precision is clinical). And he has a great vision of the game.

I don't think he cost us the title and the Champion's league. Not more than most of the other players. The La Coruna game doesn't count because we eventually reached the second tour. And he was good in the other CL games. As for Arsenal, I'm convinced that we would have lost with any other keeper. May be others won't have made those two mistakes but they wouldn't have made the ten saves he made before. Arsenal had 17 shots on goal, we had only 3...The team wasn't good that day. Anyway Fab wasn't himself at the time, he had personal problems. BTW, I remember that some posters did write that he was the best player on the pitch...at least for 80 mn. And he did saved us in other occasions, later in the year.

As for Ferguson not liking Bosnisch because of his partying lifestyle, I don't think it's the reason, because Barthez likes partying too (but he knows his limits) and Yorke was his best friend at United.

He has been very good lately and anyway Bosnisch will never come back to United.

Jason F · Oct 21, 2002

Originally posted by Elfie:


To say that Barthez is only good because of the French defence is stupid. Some people say that without knowing what they're talking about.Just look at France-Uruguay this summer. The defence was shit but Fab managed to keep a clean sheet with several great saves. . <hr></blockquote>

Thats just the thing about Barthez though, he can be outstanding one second and utterly crap the next, he is capable of both glorious saves and glorious stuff ups as well.

Barthez will always make more mistakes than Bosnisch, because Bosnisch doesn't take any risk.

That would be a good thing! we dont want a keeper who takes risks, i would personally rather a safe reliable keeper.

As for Ferguson not liking Bosnisch because of his partying lifestyle, I don't think it's the reason, because Barthez likes partying too (but he knows his limits) and Yorke was his best friend at United.

This I agree with, SAF has tolerated other ppl of questionable lifestyles, why not Bosnich? Its clear something else was going on.

.[/qb]<hr></blockquote>

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What was it with Mark Bosnich?

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