You missed one thing, Pep inherited a team that finished level on points with us.
What the team could have looked like...
- Thread starter haram
- Start date
Agreed. Which is why I'm perplexed with people's obssession with signing Griezmann as our No.10.
Oh right OK well by that logic Pep should have been able to walk into Leicester and win the Champs League then?
Those players basically downed tools and coasted knowing Pelegríno was a lame duck. If Mancini had overseen the Pelegrino era City would have 3/4 titles by now
Well, its about balance. There's nothing wrong with wanting Greizmann but then we'd need to supplement the lineup with creators around him instead of relying on him to provide the creatiity. Rashford/Martial on one side, Lukaku upfront, a creative playmaker and Greizmann in the free role will work.
You could buy 10 strikers and we'd still play like a rich West Brom team
Pardon?
I don't know how you came to this conclusion, but Pellegrini won a title, and two league cups in three years - not bad. Mancini on the other hand won a title and an FA cup in four years. Please elaborate.
We are likely going to play 4231, so if we sign Griezmann, he will likely take the position behind Lukaku with Martial and Rashford competing for the LW leaving the RW as the only vacant position. The lack of a playmaker in any of the former positions means it's either a creative winger for the RW, a square peg in a round hole, or an attack without a playmaker which like you pointed out, lacks balance and creativity. It makes things more difficult than it should actually be.
Greizmann can roam from the right like Mata does. Or the playmaker can actually start off from the right in similar fashion.
If we spent the same outlay this season in an ever so slightly different way, I would have liked to see us operate in the below way. Not saying it is realistic fwiw, just how I would have liked to see the team.
DDG
Valencia - Bailly - Jones - Blind/Shaw
Matic
Isco - Pogba
Lucas Moura - Lukaku - Martial
Basically, we should just drop the whole No 10 Idea. Switch to a midfield three where the burden of creativity is shared amongst the players. Then having direct pacy wingers on the flanks who can contribute with goals of their own would see us being versatile enough to be a threat on the counter attack as well as capable of breaking down stubborn defences. Obviously Isco is not attainable, but the idea should be the same. Valencia - Bailly - Jones - Blind/Shaw
Matic
Isco - Pogba
Lucas Moura - Lukaku - Martial
But Griezmann is not as effective on the wing and the width problem won't go away then.
If its not Isco, then who do you reckon will fit that profile?
Well I am not aware of the other tread, but it doesn't matter. It's a lot of excuses in the end.
Leicester City didn't have 11 superstars when they won the league. What they did have though was the right balance and team cohesion and confidence.
The point I am trying to make all my posts is that instead of whining for the next 3 players that are needed, how about making the ones you already have play together better? These players already at United are all able to perform better and win things.
Wasn't Bernardo Silva available ? His ability to hold onto the ball in tight spaces, an eye for a pass, running late into the box are all great qualities. Yes, I realize some of those qualities, Pogba possesses as well, but that's not entirely a bad thing. I'm not entirely sure about the defensive side of his game, but he was pretty good defensively at Monaco as well from what I recall.
He wouldnt play out wide just as Mata doesnt even if the graphic shows him there. There's the option of having your playmaker operate there as well. As far as the width is concerned, that needs to come from the full backs.
Yup... Despite never having played at left wing back and actually less than 3% of his appearances even as a left midfielder (yes he has played more games as a striker / support striker) than a left midfielder...
And of those 6 games when he played left midfield only one of them was in the last 5 seasons
Yes despite all that apparently he was going to be a left wing back who would transform us
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ivan-perisic/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/42460
Yea he was, but that ship has sailed. I'm talking about next summer.
Well, that's your opinion. I'd rather a bona fide RW that can actually offer something when on the wing and a real playmaker behind Lukaku.
I'm saying that if the ONLY measure of a squad's ability is where they finish in the league then football would be very boring wouldn't it, and Leicester, as Champions of England, should rightly have been considered favorites for the Champions League
Mancini did all of the hard work at City, Mancini took them from Champions League qualification contenders to title-winners. Pellegrini in my eyes was not much more than a lovely bloke who babysat an excellent group of players until they could achieve their longstanding ambition of getting Pep as manager. It was almost as if the whole club lay fallow for a few years whilst they awaited the coming of their 'Chosen One'
There is no argument in my mind, Pep inherited a fantastic bunch of players that needed a bit of refining around the edges. It's hardly surprising that 16 signings and £400m later they have gone up a level.
Jose inherited a mess. We had one world class player - our GK. We had several other players that you might class as 'good enough' to win a title, with the right players around them....the likes of Jones and Valencia spring to mind....but beyond that it really was a poorly balanced and painfully average set of players
So to be clear is your contention that we shouldn't be in for Griezmann at all, because he won't be a creative enough 10 nor should we be asking him to play on the right?
I don't disagree with your analysis of the player but I think with a genuine wing option on the right and Pogba creating from deep Griezmann could be fantastic in the hole, given freedom to push up with Lukaku where necessary. The idea that we need a world class creator there isn't necessarily for me; a tidy, mobile goal threat such as Griezmann could work too.
You can't compare one freak season at Leicester to the situation at Utd. Teams don't turn up to Leicester and park XI behind the ball - they didn't even start doing that when Leicester where sat top in February! Every, single time that Utd walk out onto a football pitch, the opposition are ready for the game of their lives and will fight tooth and nail just to nick a point. That's why your level not only needs to be better than the opposition, it needs to be significantly better to win games on a regular basis.
BTW I'm not whining about anything - I am perfectly happy with our progress. In fact, we are doing better than I expected. We still need AT LEAST three players though before I will start to believe that we can win titles AND play attractive football - namely the three behind the striker ALL need to be better
I don't know mate, refresh my memory did Mourinho specifically say he needed a player to play 352? Do you have the quote?
It doesn't seem to be the case as he has been using the formation anyway.
Yup... Despite never having played at left wing back and actually less than 3% of his appearances even as a left midfielder (yes he has played more games as a striker / support striker) than a left midfielder...
And of those 6 games when he played left midfield only one of them was in the last 5 seasons
Yes despite all that apparently he was going to be a left wing back who would transform us
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ivan-perisic/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/42460
Lol, yes I know. I am sure whoever had initially suggested it in his Transfer forum thread was merely offering an assumption at him being used there, but that assumption has stuck here.
Oh, that's a tough one. The obvious one is Pulisic who is just so versatile and talented, that I think he would be a great fit here. Leon Goretzka is another talented player who is doing well and is possibly a free agent at the end of the summer. Clubs like Barca, Spurs, Pool all linked to him, though he is not probably as creative offensively, but can still be a pretty good goal threat. I really haven't seen too much of football or done enough research to comment beyond that though. We also have another player in our ranks who easily has the potential to make the step up as well in Pereira. I hope he comes back in January and is given a run of games.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ws/man-utd-transfers-anthony-martial-13497991
Yup... Despite never having played at left wing back and actually less than 3% of his appearances even as a left midfielder (yes he has played more games as a striker / support striker) than a left midfielder...
And of those 6 games when he played left midfield only one of them was in the last 5 seasons
Yes despite all that apparently he was going to be a left wing back who would transform us
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ivan-perisic/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/42460
I was going off what Mourinho wanted.
Fair enough mate still cant be certain he was talking about Perisic though. I guess we will find out this summer.
Depend on how much we can afford but we can afford to get Griezmann and Pulisic together for less than 200 million if we get Ozil and Ghoulam for free or get them both for 40m in January and sell Mata, Fellaini and Shaw, to fund Meunier for 40m-50m. yeah that would be a possible
Fellaini, Shaw, Herrea, Blind, Mata, Zlatan, Carrick and Young is out of contract at end of 2017/18 season if they leave, which mean it would reduce our wage bill to £176m from £220.8m bill
We had a budget of almost 200m+ last summer, to spend on Lukaku £75m, Matic £40m, Lindelof £31m and supposedly to spend on perisic £40m = 186m but Perisic didn't happen so we have 40m+ saved for the future window transfers. We also always want a world class player so we went out for Griezmann or Bale as the second choice but we failed both and will be going for Griezmann again to buyout his clause for 90m next year if reports are true. Perisic and Griezmann failed = 90m + 40m = 130m
Now we have 130m left we didn't spend on players last summer which we can spend on next year again on top of our 200m annual budget = 330m+
If all our player is out of contract at end of 2017/18 season (3 CM, 3 LB, 1 AM and 1 CF) and they are all leaving and not signing extension contract so we have to sell some of our players in January to free up our 25 man squad maximum to get another player like Ozil or Ghoulam for 20m each otherwise we have to wait for them to join us for free and our player will be leaving for free. Ozil for Mata, Ghoulam for Shaw.
A - Ammsuing that Ozil and Ghoulam join us for free in summer. Spend on Griezmann 90m, Meunier 40-50m and Pulisic 80m-100m = £210m-£240m
B - Amusing Ghoulam didn't join us, we'll have to spend extra 50m on Danny Rose = £260-290m
However, A is better option for us otherwise we'll have to spend much more on player or go with both A and B option so we can get two LB
Ozil/Pulisic/Griezmann >> Mhki/Lingard/Mata
Meunier >> Valencia/Darmin
Ghoulam/Rose >> Young/Shaw/Blind
Massive upgrade to RW, AM, LB and RB.
He absolutely was mate
. What was the point in me posting proof if you're gonna dismiss it anyway. Perisic signed a new deal.He absolutely was mate
Huh? Sorry what exactly am i dismissing mate?
I thought we were having an amicable discussion. I asked if you had the quote where Mourinho said he needed a player to play 352 as i wasn't sure if he mentioned a specific formation. You gave me it, cheers and i said fair enough he was in fact talking about 352.
Beyond that the quotes don't really tell us anything really do they?
All the probablys and the ''i have pure wingers'' when we actually don't would make me lean towards taking the whole quote with a grain of salt. It could possibly be stuff he was spouting off the top of his head to avoid saying he wanted Perisic to play in Martial's position.
Yeah, he was just avoiding saying Perisic's name, that was all.
Pulisic will be my choice for RW. Goretzka will be nice too as a backup CM since he is available for free, but I wouldn't pay to sign him as the third CM in a 433. With him Pogba and Matic, like you pointed out, I doubt it's creative enough. I'd like us to sign someone who will comfortably play as a bonafide 10 in the normal games and drop deeper in the big games. Pereira fits that mould, but we can't trust our season on him. Maybe Koke? He plays mostly on the wing for Atletico, but he's an AM by trade and is comfortable in a mid 2 too - that would be killing two birds with one stone.
Pulisic on the RW is his natural position, but I just feel he will have a tendency to drift in and occupy the more central areas, which is basically what we are already doing at the moment. Instead, investing in a proper winger who loves to stay wide and has a mean cross on him would be ideal since, we will already have players in more central areas who are capable of keeping it intricate. I know Moura is not the end product and can be very inconsistent and frustrating, but he's likely to be available considering how settled the front 3 at PSG are.
Regarding Koke, of course he is excellent. His work rate, his passing ability and not to mention how good he is defensively are all massive and I would definitely love to see him here, but I am not so sure as to whether Atletico would be willing to let him go. Besides, I think he signed a contract in the summer, so his release clause must be insane. But if I were to indeed choose an Atletico midfielder, I would prefer Saul. Love his dribbling but even he signed a long term contract recently. But yeah, I agree. Koke is probably the better fit.
Regarding Goretzka, I have to agree. Having him as a backup would make more sense. But then it would limit opportunities to someone like Pereira who I think has the higher ceiling.
Pulisic do have the tendency to drift in, but it depends on the position he plays and the way the manager uses him. Against Spurs he played in the left of the front three.
He will stay even wider if he is played as a winger in a 4231. There's nothing to feel here. Every winger do drift in when the ball is on the other side of the pitch.
Lucas Moura could have been great if he wasn't such a frustrating player. Valencia being the RB hardly help matters too. If you are a fan of Moura, then you must love Ricardo Pereira too. He is a winger by trade, but he played RB for Nice last season and got a lot of assists. He can cross the ball, beat his man and is a constant attacking presence on the flanks. I'm suprised he's not been linked to a lot of teams.
Saul is an interesting one too, but I doubt he can play the No.10 role long time. Like you pointed out too, both he and Koke recently signed new contracts, so they might be a no go.
We need 2 players in January, then sell 5/6 in the summer and bring in more. 4/5 players needed by next summer closing of window.
2 FB
1 Midfield
1 RW
1 Forward/playmaker
2 FB
1 Midfield
1 RW
1 Forward/playmaker
That is true. But when I say drift inside, I mean ala Mata style. But yes, that is down to the manager's instructions and I am sure Pulisic could easily stay out wide if needed. But the qualities he has on the ball makes me feel he could be more influential centrally. This is all hypothetical ofcourse.Pulisic do have the tendency to drift in, but it depends on the position he plays and the way the manager uses him. Against Spurs he played in the left of the front three.
He will stay even wider if he is played as a winger in a 4231. There's nothing to feel here. Every winger do drift in when the ball is on the other side of the pitch.
Lucas Moura could have been great if he wasn't such a frustrating player. Valencia being the RB hardly help matters too. If you are a fan of Moura, then you must love Ricardo Pereira too. He is a winger by trade, but he played RB for Nice last season and got a lot of assists. He can cross the ball, beat his man and is a constant attacking presence on the flanks. I'm suprised he's not been linked to a lot of teams.
Saul is an interesting one too, but I doubt he can play the No.10 role long time. Like you pointed out too, both he and Koke recently signed new contracts, so they might be a no go.
I dunno much if anything about Pereira mate, but will look him up.
Agreed.
We were penny pinching on Perisic a few months ago. I believe we offered £30m. Inter wanted £50M. Maybe £40M-£45M would've been enough.
Given that we were trying to save £15M on Perisic, this Summer, I highly doubt, we will shell out £300M next season.
There is no logic to this.
I can only assume that the owners feel that top 4 is "good enough" and are happy to spend minimally, while achieving the target of top 4. This ensures that profits are high, while outgoings are low. Arsenal adhere to this business model and the owners are VERY happy with the business.