What now for Dortmund (and the Bundesliga)?

Interesting interview from Hummels

According to Hummels...Dortmund knew already 2-3 months ago that Mkhitaryan wouldn't sign a new contract = That shows that Watzke's words were again massive bullshit!!!!

 
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Sean_RedDevil said:
Interesting interview from Hummels

According to Hummels...Dortmund knew already 2-3 months ago that Mkhitaryan wouldn't sign a new contract = That shows that Watzke's words were again massive bullshit!!!!

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Why would Watzke make bold statements when he knows that Mkhitaryan wants to leave? Why would otherwise credible journalists report that an extension is imminent if it's clear that won't happen.

Why would Hummels, who made several more or less conflicting statements surrounding his transfer already, lie? Because it's another way to save face.
 
Makes you wonder how even the most hardcore bundesliga fan can even fight this argument that it's a one team league....

When your top rival is losing players right and left to other teams and to the best team in Germany....

Bayern and PSG are monopolies in their respective league. Juventus as well, however, with the new investments in serie a, juventus has a better chance losing the title than either psg or bayern
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
Interesting interview from Hummels

According to Hummels...Dortmund knew already 2-3 months ago that Mkhitaryan wouldn't sign a new contract = That shows that Watzke's words were again massive bullshit!!!!

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Why can't he shut up. Please, ffs. Stop talking, for good. I don't think I've ever been so incredibly annoyed by a player we signed.
 
NYC said:
Makes you wonder how even the most hardcore bundesliga fan can even fight this argument that it's a one team league....

When your top rival is losing players right and left to other teams and to the best team in Germany....

Bayern and PSG are monopolies in their respective league. Juventus as well, however, with the new investments in serie a, juventus has a better chance losing the title than either psg or bayern
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Spoke to a Bayern fan this year who was getting bored of it...
 
I live in Germany and it is a one team league, Bayern München are the boss team for sure. I can't stand them and prefer Dortmund over them any day. I remember about 15 years ago when they played United in Munich in the Champions league and I remember a Bayern spokesman saying before the match that they needed to become more like the Richest Club in the World "United". Since then many things have happened. But they have certainly reached new heights since then even though they have always been a top club in Europe.
 
Is Gotze likely going back to Dortmund?
 
Dortmund need to start paying star players the same amount of money that they'd get at a Bayern and also start signing players on a 5 year deal. Its reckless for them to have already reached near the end of Mkhitaryan's contract so soon after he got signed. You wouldn't see such nonsense happening if the club was run by Levy.
 
Dortmund are going to be a lot of fun to watch this coming season . If Reus can stay fit they have a front 3 of

Reus aubameyang Dembele

That's enough to do damage against the best defences In the world .

Two solid additions in defence too with Raphael and bartra.

I would still rate them as better than any team in the premier league including us
 
Subotic to Boro is all but confirmed. Wow. Dortmund selling just as much as they're buying this window!
 
DavidG said:
Dortmund are going to be a lot of fun to watch this coming season . If Reus can stay fit they have a front 3 of

Reus aubameyang Dembele

That's enough to do damage against the best defences In the world .

Two solid additions in defence too with Raphael and bartra.

I would still rate them as better than any team in the premier league including us
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They simply can't lose the players they have and continue to be better than any team in the Premier League.
 
jungledrums said:
Right, I've not seen much of him since he was displaced by Sokratis. Did injuries play a part? Is he likely to return to form?
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Injuries definitely played a part, but I don't think his ceiling was ever all that high to begin with. Did the donkey work next to Hummels who was always more languid in style which makes him seem more adept defensively than the actual case.
 
I think he used to be a pretty decent defender in a no nonsense sort of way. I don't think he's been at his best since an ACL injury a couple of seasons ago and despite still playing often under Klopp afterwards Tuchel apparently didn't rate him at all, probably because he's pretty weak on the ball.
 
The future of dortmund doesn't really matter right now giving they are a feeder club. Scratch that it does kind of matter giving they nurture young players for clubs like us and bayern to feed off. I will monitor the progress of some of their younger stars because they could be part of us someday.

Until they get with the times and start handing their players serious money they will remain small fish.
 
DavidG said:
I would still rate them as better than any team in the premier league including us
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No chance. They probably won't even be better than spurs this coming season. They need to many signings and don't seem like they making the sort of transfers they need.
 
Although, I don't follow the Bundesliga regularly, I keep hearing about the exciting football on offer and the fact that ticket prices are relatively low and local fans are very well connected with their clubs.

However, since the last few years, Bayern buying every top player from their rivals has really belittled the league to such an extent that the only thing that matters to them now is the CL. A strong domestic league is in the interest of all clubs as it keeps the competitiveness high and the league challenging.

If is continues to go this way, then another generation from now even the German NT will feel the repercussions of this one sided league.
 
Subho611 said:
Although, I don't follow the Bundesliga regularly, I keep hearing about the exciting football on offer and the fact that ticket prices are relatively low and local fans are very well connected with their clubs.

However, since the last few years, Bayern buying every top player from their rivals
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Just to say it once again: If you don't want to go back as far as Neuer, we got exactly two high calibre players from our rivals. Two. And one of them was on a free.
 
Piratesoup said:
Just to say it once again: If you don't want to go back as far as Neuer, we got exactly two high calibre players from our rivals. Two. And one of them was on a free.
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Three. Götze, Lewandowski, Hummels.
 
Piratesoup said:
Just to say it once again: If you don't want to go back as far as Neuer, we got exactly two high calibre players from our rivals. Two. And one of them was on a free.
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Both players were on the market and free to grab because of Götze's release clause.
 
Kasper said:
Three. Götze, Lewandowski, Hummels.
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Hummels is different cup of tea. He came through Bayern's youth ranks and was sent away by Klinsmann against massive protest of our youth coaches, especially Herman Gerland.
Hummels also stated some years ago that he considers playing again for Bayern coz he feels like this "chapter of his life's story isn't finished, yet".
 
Acrobat7 said:
And I should start dating super models. Both doesn't happen for a reason.
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They have enough money to pay a handful of players proper super star money and then undercut the rest. Iirc they make about 280 mil euros a year, that's 140 In wages. Spend 50 on 5 players, have the squad share the rest. You need great players if you're planning to be a great team. It really is that simpe. I'm confident had they put 200k a week on the table for Lewa, Gotze, Kagawa, Sahin and Gundogan they wouldn't have left.
 
RooneyLegend said:
They have enough money to pay a handful of players proper super star money and then undercut the rest. Iirc they make about 280 mil euros a year, that's 140 In wages. Spend 50 on 5 players, have the squad share the rest. You need great players if you're planning to be a great team. It really is that simpe. I'm confident had they put 200k a week on the table for Lewa, Gotze, Kagawa, Sahin and Gundogan they wouldn't have left.
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Dortmund have rather fresh memories when it comes to overspending. I quite like their approach: They sold players for decent sums and bought a bunch of great talents comparatively cheap.
People make it sound as if it just needs a change of spending philosophy to "stop being a feeder club". In reality, every club bar a chosen few ancient powerhouses and the modern sugar daddy clubs is in a way a feeder club. If they offer Lewandowski 200k a week, the powerhouses would offer 250k and so on. The only way to change their already high standing is to work tirelessly with what you got (or get your own sugardaddy, which doesn't really work in Germany). That process takes years, even decades.
 
Piratesoup said:
Dortmund have rather fresh memories when it comes to overspending. I quite like their approach: They sold players for decent sums and bought a bunch of great talents comparatively cheap.
People make it sound as if it just needs a change of spending philosophy to "stop being a feeder club". In reality, every club bar a chosen few ancient powerhouses and the modern sugar daddy clubs is in a way a feeder club. If they offer Lewandowski 200k a week, the powerhouses would offer 250k and so on. The only way to change their already high standing is to work tirelessly with what you got (or get your own sugardaddy, which doesn't really work in Germany). That process takes years, even decades.
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I'm not saying overspend, I'm saying give marquee players market wages for players of their caliber. As you can see in the post I made, I'm not saying they should spend most of their revenue paying mega wages like they have a sugar daddy, just reduce the wages of so called squad players, so you can give big time players, big time money.

Powerhouses have their limits too(non toy clubs ofcourse). We don't pay more than a certain level, and neither does a bayern or Madrid(unless we talking ronaldo). If in 2013 they put 10 million on the table for lewa, bayern would have likely looked away cause it wouldn't be worth it. I doubt Gotze makes that sort of money at bayern too. If they do, the say okay, we tried our best to keep him.

Chelsea never loses a player cause they pay big wages(they instead have a massive wage bill cause they have a lot of players on big contracts). However they don't really pay astronomical wages(250k+). Getting a player out of them has proved an impossible task.

Its the same thing with Arsenal. Wenger went the whole communist route instead of giving his most valuable players real star wages and managed to lose them all. You can't build if you keep losing your cornerstone and that's the cycle the dortmunds of this world are stuck in.
 
saylon said:
Hummels is different cup of tea. He came through Bayern's youth ranks and was sent away by Klinsmann against massive protest of our youth coaches, especially Herman Gerland.
Hummels also stated some years ago that he considers playing again for Bayern coz he feels like this "chapter of his life's story isn't finished, yet".
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I know, doesn't change that he was a high caliber transfer from a rival.

RooneyLegend said:
They have enough money to pay a handful of players proper super star money and then undercut the rest. Iirc they make about 280 mil euros a year, that's 140 In wages. Spend 50 on 5 players, have the squad share the rest. You need great players if you're planning to be a great team. It really is that simpe. I'm confident had they put 200k a week on the table for Lewa, Gotze, Kagawa, Sahin and Gundogan they wouldn't have left.
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:lol: That's some FM maths there, too bad it's not that simplistic in real life.
 
Bild tells that Götze and the BVB have an agreement and whereas BVB only wants to spend 23m EUR for the transfer Bayern wants 27m EUR. So expect it to be 25m EUR at the end.

So - Götze back in Dortmund, Hummels back in Munich
 
Blackwidow said:
Bild tells that Götze and the BVB have an agreement and whereas BVB only wants to spend 23m EUR for the transfer Bayern wants 27m EUR. So expect it to be 25m EUR at the end.

So - Götze back in Dortmund, Hummels back in Munich
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Bayern has a master plan to strategically weaken their main rival by poaching their top players. By poaching exactly as many as United bought. Over 6 years. Yeah, right...
 
RooneyLegend said:
What's so complicated about it?
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You're saying Dortmund should've just doubled the wages of their top players. You also seem to think that clubs can just magically lower wages and get away with it and you cite clubs who are underachieving with some of the highest wage bills in Europe (more than twice the one of Dortmund btw) as positive examples and somehow you seem to be under the impression that a club with €280m turnover can financially compete with a €500m turnover club.


Let's be honest here. How much do you know about Dortmund, especially their state in 2013? The club's officials, who had financial experts among them and who knew all the numbers and projections intimately, came to the conclusion that €5m was the maximum they could offer. Now a couple of years later you're like: lol, morons, just should'Ve paid them ten, EZ.
Seriously?
 
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RooneyLegend said:
They have enough money to pay a handful of players proper super star money and then undercut the rest. Iirc they make about 280 mil euros a year, that's 140 In wages. Spend 50 on 5 players, have the squad share the rest. You need great players if you're planning to be a great team. It really is that simpe. I'm confident had they put 200k a week on the table for Lewa, Gotze, Kagawa, Sahin and Gundogan they wouldn't have left.
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That could easily destroy the club if those top players get injured. Some of your better squad players will leave, if you kill your wage structure like you suggest. Your squad depth will be significantly weaker compared to the elite teams and considering Götze's, Kagawa's, Sahin's and Gündogan's injury record this sounds like a completely insane idea. It's nothing but one huge gamble.
 
do.ob said:
You're saying Dortmund should've just doubled the wages of their top players. You also seem to think that clubs can just magically lower wages and get away with it and you cite clubs who are underachieving with some of the highest wage bills in Europe (more than twice the one of Dortmund btw) as positive examples and somehow you seem to be under the impression that a club with €280m turnover can financially compete with a €500m turnover club.


Let's be honest here. How much do you know about Dortmund, especially their state in 2013? The club's officials, who had financial experts among them and who knew all the numbers and projections intimately, came to the conclusion that €5m was the maximum they could offer. Now a couple of years later you're like: lol, morons, just should'Ve paid them ten, EZ.
Seriously?
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I used the clubs with big wage bills as examples of how if players are paid well, they won't itch for a move.

They can't finanancially compete with them, but they can manipulate their wage structure in order to pay deserving players big wages. The reason those clubs have such huge wage bills is cause they give massive wages to everyone, not just their stars. You can just reduce the wage bill in certain areas. Finding good players isn't hard, its finding world class players that's a pain in the arse. Sell them, get in new fresh cheap talent on lessor money than the outgoings.

These financial experts have cost dortmund serious talent these past few years. Heck, the lewa debacle cost them a 50 mill-60mil euro player. Mkhi just left on his last year of his contract for less than his true total worth. Not sorting out contracts has cost them, despite how intimately the board knows the financials.
Balu said:
That could easily destroy the club if those top players get injured. Some of your better squad players will leave, if you kill your wage structure like you suggest. Your squad depth will be significantly weaker compared to the elite teams and considering Götze's, Kagawa's, Sahin's and Gündogan's injury record this sounds like a completely insane idea. It's nothing but one huge gamble.
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Finding good squad players isn't all that difficult. Kuba, Grosskreutz and the like aren't difficult to replace. Replacing a Lewa is a mission. I don't think their depth has ever been impressive. Before the first 3 left, their injury records weren't bad, despite Gundogans injury record they still managed to get him off the books into another club. Made money while doing it too. You can't think too much about injuries in football cause they are an unknown.

Paying serious money for squad players is totally unnecessary cause of home many players of that standard that there are in world football. Its what wenger has done these past 10 years and its hurt him cause it reduced their ability to pay stars top dollar. They ended up losing the stars, so struggle to win.
 
RooneyLegend said:
I used the clubs with big wage bills as examples of how if players are paid well, they won't itch for a move.

They can't finanancially compete with them, but they can manipulate their wage structure in order to pay deserving players big wages. The reason those clubs have such huge wage bills is cause they give massive wages to everyone, not just their stars. You can just reduce the wage bill in certain areas. Finding good players isn't hard, its finding world class players that's a pain in the arse. Sell them, get in new fresh cheap talent on lessor money than the outgoings.

These financial experts have cost dortmund serious talent these past few years. Heck, the lewa debacle cost them a 50 mill-60mil euro player. Mkhi just left on his last year of his contract for less than his true total worth. Not sorting out contracts has cost them, despite how intimately the board knows the financials.
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First of all there are contracts that guarantee wages which can't simply be broken. Secondly, had they kept Lewandowski and Götze via paying them €10m each next thing they know is Hummels, Gündogan and Reus come knocking for similar fees. Then you're at €50m out of a €70-80m budget just for 5 players out of a 20+ player squad. I'd like to see a functioning team where 5 players earn €10m each and 15 players around 10% of that. What you're so boldly claiming is ignorant of financial realities to a "let them eat cake" level.
Let alone that both Lewandowski and Götze supposedly earn more than that at Bayern and that from what his agents said publicly, the Pole would've gone either way.

Finding good squad players isn't all that difficult. Kuba, Grosskreutz and the like aren't difficult to replace. Replacing a Lewa is a mission. I don't think their depth has ever been impressive. Before the first 3 left, their injury records weren't bad, despite Gundogans injury record they still managed to get him off the books into another club. Made money while doing it too. You can't think too much about injuries in football cause they are an unknown.

Paying serious money for squad players is totally unnecessary cause of home many players of that standard that there are in world football. Its what wenger has done these past 10 years and its hurt him cause it reduced their ability to pay stars top dollar. They ended up losing the stars, so struggle to win.
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Do you even know how much squad players earn at Dortmund?
 
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