What is your PL all-time xi?

harms said:
Why is he behind Stam in your opinion? His peak is absolutely immense, you can certainly argue that at least that one season was as good as anything that PL center backs had managed to achieve (and probably a bit better). I can understand why people prefer Rio/Terry and even Vidić due to longevity (although van Dijk is probably creeping in on the Serbian) but Stam, even though he was absolutely immense, was only here for what, 3 seasons?
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van Dijk is the most talented CB in PL history. He has everything you could want in a CB. Especially in his prime. If you were building a CB in lab, he has 90% of the attributes you would want.

Modern CBs deserve a lot of credit for playing in a post back-pass era with high lines and offside rules that favour attackers. Offside used to be simpler.

Unfortunately for him, PL titles have been hard to come by. Had he won 2-3 titles, his status would rise.
 
diarm said:
Because Stam was the heart and soul of a treble winning defence. He spent that season partnering 3 lads who wouldn’t be named in the top 50 PL centre backs and achieved something that only the biggest cheaters in the history of British football have been able to match before or since.

His peak is so far ahead of anything Van Dijk has shown, that longevity becomes irrelevant. It’s like saying Bellamy played longer in the league than Ronaldo so should be ranked above him.

Besides, I don’t see Van Dijks peak as much longer than 3, maybe 4 seasons. He certainly hasn’t done much in the past 2 or 3 years to warrant inclusion in a thread like this.
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He was great last season and again this season. Easily the best defender in the league. And his peak clearly higher than Stam.
 
Van Dijk won PFA Footballer of the Year, 2nd in Ballon d’Or, UEFA Player of the Year and generally considered top 3 CBs in the world for about 6 years now.

Nobody would bat an eyelid outside a United forum.
 
B20 said:
Schmeichel
Walker Ferdinand VVD Cole
Gerrard Keane KDB
Salah Shearer Henry

TAA, Vieira, Terry and Ronaldo all interchangeable. Bale and Suarez feels like they should be in there perhaps, but like Ronaldo, they can't match how long the selected front three have done it in the league.

Also, goodness there is some saltiness about VVD on here. He is an easy pick.
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3 players from a team with 1 PL title. 3 players from a team with 13 PL titles. And you have the nerve to call others salty :lol:
 
Find these so difficult to do. Obvious that most fans understandably have bias towards their own team.

Trying to be as nuteral as possible, I'd go with:

-----------------------------------------------Cech----------------------------------------------------
Walker------------------------Rio----------------------Terry----------------------------Cole
-------------------------------Keane--------------------Viera----------------------------
Bale---------------------------------------Rooney-----------------------------Ronaldo
----------------------------------------------Henry---------------------------------------

Genuinely don't think any team is beating that. The two hardest positions to pick are a RB and a partner for Keane.

Honorable shoutouts to:

VDS / Schmeichel
Suarez - His peak was just insane but I hate him too much to include him
Scholes
Kante
G.Neville / Irwin
Vidic
Gerrard
 
Who is nailed on?

Cole at LB seems pretty unarguable.
Rio is definitely in.
Scholes, Keane and KDB I think all have to be in.
In line with OP you have to put Salah in nowadays.
Henry and Rooney I think have to be in it.

Agree re VVD not being in it - he had a dodgey season last year and cost Pool in a few games but ended well and so people forgot. Bit like Bruno how the narrative was how good he was but he’d been woeful early on. Great peak but very short, not his fault but the injury changed how he plays. Also not his fault he has multiple players ahead of him who have won a lot more and been more consistently winning top gongs as key parts of their teams.
 
B20 said:
He was great last season and again this season. Easily the best defender in the league. And his peak clearly higher than Stam.
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No he wasn’t. There were Liverpool threads on Reddit and enquiries on TV as to what was wrong with him. He made high profile gaffs and Liverpool conceded far more goals than either City or Arsenal, despite having the leagues best keeper behind him.

He isn’t the best defender in the league and his peak is light years behind Stam. This isn’t even a debate that would be entertained anywhere in Europe other than within earshot of a Liverpool fan.
 
I think what makes lists like these contentious is the criteria not being clear, are we considering their single best seasons? The team achievements? Longevity? Each of them would point you different ways slightly I feel
 
Bondi77 said:
Three of the best I have seen in the Premier League but they played their most successful football elsewhere are;
Ronnie
Bale
Suarez.
So if it is based on high level coupled with longevity they wouldn't make the list but they would make my team.
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Although Suárez and Bale were more successful elsewhere, I think their last season in England(considering only their primes) was their best.

Yes, Suárez had that 80 goals and assists season for Barcelona, but I don't think he was as unstoppable as in 13/14. Not only did he score a lot that season, but it seemed impossible for him to score average goals — after all, he barely had any help from his teammates. Messi in 2017/2018 and 2018/2019 was the only other thing as close to a one-man army I've seen in football.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Who is nailed on?

Cole at LB seems pretty unarguable.
Rio is definitely in.
Scholes, Keane and KDB I think all have to be in.
In line with OP you have to put Salah in nowadays.
Henry and Rooney I think have to be in it.

Agree re VVD not being in it - he had a dodgey season last year and cost Pool in a few games but ended well and so people forgot. Bit like Bruno how the narrative was how good he was but he’d been woeful early on. Great peak but very short, not his fault but the injury changed how he plays. Also not his fault he has multiple players ahead of him who have won a lot more and been more consistently winning top gongs as key parts of their teams.
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That’s not how Van Dijk’s season went at all, he was far and away the best defender in the first half, had a questionable middle-to-end period - Arsenal game and a few others. He was in PFA Team of the Year and deservedly so.
diarm said:
No he wasn’t. There were Liverpool threads on Reddit and enquiries on TV as to what was wrong with him. He made high profile gaffs and Liverpool conceded far more goals than either City or Arsenal, despite having the leagues best keeper behind him.

He isn’t the best defender in the league and his peak is light years behind Stam. This isn’t even a debate that would be entertained anywhere in Europe other than within earshot of a Liverpool fan.
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Except Jaap Stam himself said he’s the best defender
 
--------------Schmeichel
---Ferdinand--Terry--Van Dijk
Salah-----Rodri----Keane---Giggs
-----------------De Bruyne
-------------Kane------Henry

Subs: Čech, Stam, Ashley Cole, Scholes, Vieira, David Silva, Gerrard, Rooney, Shearer

Pretty damn close to a perfect football team.
 
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Scandi Red said:
Worst picks in the thread so far (will possibly be updated later): Hazard, Kante, Y.Toure, Van Dijk.

All very good players, but come on...
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Toure is not that outlandish. He could do literally everything you would want out of a midfielder. Perhaps some players were better at certain aspects but Toure was a proper complete package, especially when you factor in those bursts from midfield that he could do that none of the other candidates for this position can do as well as he did.
 
guilhermebastile said:
Although Suárez and Bale were more successful elsewhere, I think their last season in England(considering only their primes) was their best.

Yes, Suárez had that 80 goals and assists season for Barcelona, but I don't think he was as unstoppable as in 13/14. Not only did he score a lot that season, but it seemed impossible for him to score average goals — after all, he barely had any help from his teammates. Messi in 2017/2018 and 2018/2019 was the only other thing as close to a one-man army I've seen in football.
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I agree.
Trophy wise it was Spain for both of them but their peaks in England was something to behold.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
That’s not how Van Dijk’s season went at all, he was far and away the best defender in the first half, had a questionable middle-to-end period - Arsenal game and a few others. He was in PFA Team of the Year and deservedly so.

Except Jaap Stam himself said he’s the best defender
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Being a great player is no indicator of being a great pundit or judge of talent. We have plenty of them on our tvs every weekend proving just that.

I watched them both play with my own eyes. Liverpool fans shouting louder than anyone else doesn’t change that. If they want to fight for Scouse inclusions in a side like this, Salah and Allison are far closer than Van Dijk.
 
I genuinely think at most one Liverpool player (Salah) should make the starting XI.

- 3 or 4 United players
- 2 or 3 City players
- 1 or 2 Chelsea players
- 0 or 1 Liverpool player
- Henry (must 100% get in)
- And then possibly Shearer
- .... and possibly Vieira

That's fair and balanced based on the success of the respective clubs. Example:

Schmeichel
Walker - Rio - Terry - Cole
Keane - Scholes
Salah - De Bruyne - Henry
Shearer/Aguero

-----

Number of PL titles (let this be a guiding principle):

13 - United
8 - City
5 - Chelsea
3 - Arsenal
1 - Blackburn, Leicester, Liverpool
 
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Longevity plays a role when selecting "an all time xi".

My picks:

Chech

Neville - Ferdinand - Terry - Cole

Beckham - Keane - Giggs

Ronaldo - Shearer - Henry
 
My choices are based on career peak:

GK: Schmeichel: terrific on handling crosses, brilliant saves and very determined in 1on1 situations.

RB: Gary Neville: always focused and disciplined. Was One of the first fullbacks to efficiently close the inside space.

LB: Cashley Cole: he was very solid and reliable

CBs: Rio Ferdinand and Vidic: no further explanation needed.

DMf: Michael Essien: before injuries this guy was a beast

CM1: Paul Scholes: amazing passer and goal scorer, aggressive. What more could you ask?

CM2: Kevin De Bruyne

LW: CR7

RW: David Beckham not the most Speedy winger, but his tactical Intelligence is extremely underrated.

Stk: Alan Shearer: this man was synonim for goals.
 
B20 said:
He was great last season and again this season. Easily the best defender in the league. And his peak clearly higher than Stam.
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Not easily, Saliba has been better last season... but yeah, he's clearly still at the very top of the pyramid.
 
—————————-Čech——————————-
——-Rio————-JT—————VVD—————
Beckham—Scholes——S.Gerrard——-A.Cole
—-Rooney——————————Henry
———————-Shearer————————
 
guilhermebastile said:
Although Suárez and Bale were more successful elsewhere, I think their last season in England(considering only their primes) was their best.

Yes, Suárez had that 80 goals and assists season for Barcelona, but I don't think he was as unstoppable as in 13/14. Not only did he score a lot that season, but it seemed impossible for him to score average goals — after all, he barely had any help from his teammates. Messi in 2017/2018 and 2018/2019 was the only other thing as close to a one-man army I've seen in football.
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The Suárez 12/13 season is a bit overrated. Stat padded against the bottom 4 clubs. 5 goals vs Cardiff, 5 goals vs Norwich, 3 goals vs West Brom, 2 goals vs Fulham

I'm definitely having 15/16 Suárez as the pinnacle of his career. Not many players outscore Messi in a season. Especially in his 20's. To be fair, Messi was happy to see Suárez receive his flowers due to their close relationship.
 
Scandi Red said:
I genuinely think at most one Liverpool player (Salah) should make the starting XI.

- 3 or 4 United players
- 2 or 3 City players
- 1 or 2 Chelsea players
- 0 or 1 Liverpool player
- Henry (must 100% get in)
- And then possibly Shearer
- .... and possibly Vieira

That's fair and balanced based on the success of the respective clubs. Example:

Schmeichel
Walker - Rio - Terry - Cole
Keane - Scholes
Salah - De Bruyne - Henry
Shearer/Aguero

-----

Number of PL titles (let this be a guiding principle):

13 - United
8 - City
5 - Chelsea
3 - Arsenal
1 - Blackburn, Leicester, Liverpool
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Is that really a good guiding principle though?

I get that this favours united, but it's about individuals, not teams. I'd always pick Shearer over Aguero and don't think his five titles to Shearer's single changes that.
 
B20 said:
Is that really a good guiding principle though?

I get that this favours united, but it's about individuals, not teams. I'd always pick Shearer over Aguero and don't think his five titles to Shearer's single changes that.
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It's difficult to compare the likes of Shearer with Agüero.

Shearer's PL peak was 1992-1997. The PL was so different to what it is now. 4-4-2 was common and a high volume of long balls and crosses were common.

He was insane at Blackburn though. Guaranteed 25+ PL goals a season.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
That’s not how Van Dijk’s season went at all, he was far and away the best defender in the first half, had a questionable middle-to-end period - Arsenal game and a few others. He was in PFA Team of the Year and deservedly so.

Except Jaap Stam himself said he’s the best defender
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Firstly, I have no issue if you want to put him in your team - if you put Adams, Carvalho, Sol Campbell in wouldn't be that crazy, I'd just think you are wrong. In the same way I think there are 3 CBs 100% above him (Rio, Vidic, Terry) and I think Kompany often gets overlooked, though that can go either way. It would be like me saying Beckham is the best ever RW, he's obviously not been as good as Salah but he is amongst the best RW's of the PL, it's not like I am saying VVD is Lindelof. I think his peak was truly elite but it was too short and, if we just go off peak, I think Stam then climbs ahead of him as well. (also Stam and him and compatriots and mates so there's no stock in someone saying x or y is currently the best, ask an ex Portuguese player and they'll say Dias, ask an Argentine and they'll say Romero etc.)

Secondly, unfortunately for you, my memory is pretty good. I remembered your username and we had a debate specifically about VVD last season. My point was essentially he was the CB United needed to sign when he left Soton, he is a great player but post injury his level has dropped off. That does not make him rubbish, it just means his level now is not where it used to be and I would take a number of CBs above him. I then gave you a number of specific examples where he had individually made errors, some are subjective, some are clear cut and you can freely go and watch the replays of without a paywall on youtube. You then did not respond...

So I ask you now, many months later. What is your take on these situations from last season (this was up to Jan, so it is only from half of the season FYI to help with which games):
  • Chelsea goal he pushes out and leaves a huge gap for their equalizer, it's bad luck but it's a bit naïve given there's an overload.
  • He gets done by Bowen for the West Ham goal, let's him come across him and win a diving header of all things
  • Done by Son for Spurs equalizer
  • Poor for Haaland's goal, just watches him peel off Matip then isn't fast enough to close him down.
  • Fulham 3rd goal a bit harsh to blame him but he can challenge for the back post header, he's close enough. Maybe this one is a bit unfair.
  • Isak goal versus Newcastle just gets done for pace
 
Cech
G Nev
Stam
Rio
Cole
Vieira
Gerrard
Keane
Ronaldo
Henry
Rooney

Salah unlucky but personally would have Hazard ahead of him anyway, Hazard can completely control a game and id have others in this team who can get the goals Salah can.. Walker for me is no where near the best RB to have played in the PL era.. take his pace away and hes an average full back at best.
 
B20 said:
Is that really a good guiding principle though?
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Yes, because "guiding principle" is not the same as "absolute rule".

United have won more than 40% of the PL titles with 3 distinct teams. We should have 3 in the XI as a bare minimum. And you could honestly make a compelling argument for 5 or 6.

And on the flip side: if you find yourself putting 3 or 4 Liverpool players in the XI then you are clearly biased.
 
Schmeichel

Gary Rio Vidic Irwin

Ronaldo Keane Scholes Giggs

Rooney Aguero

That was easy.
 
Schmeichel
Walker - Ferdinand - Van Dijk - Cole
Gerrard - Keane
De Bruyne
Salah - Henry - Ronaldo
​
Although from a purely team-building perspective, there's a case for committing to either a Pep/Klopp 4-3-3 model, versus a Fergie/Wenger/Mourinho contain-and-counter XI.
 
Scandi Red said:
Yes, because "guiding principle" is not the same as "absolute rule".

United have won more than 40% of the PL titles with 3 distinct teams. We should have 3 in the XI as a bare minimum. And you could honestly make a compelling argument for 5 or 6.

And on the flip side: if you find yourself putting 3 or 4 Liverpool players in the XI then you are clearly biased.
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Would you do the same when it comes to picking an all-time English league XI - i.e. have a number of the players from the all-conquering Liverpool side of the 70s and 80s?
 
——————Schmeichel——————
Irwin——-Ferdinand-Adams—-Cole
——-Keane—Scholes—De Bruyne—
———-Rooney—Shearer—Henry—

I don’t see how any other city players get in, tbh. Rodri hasn’t been doing it for long enough - if Stam and Ronaldo don’t get in then neither does he. Could argue Walker over Irwin. Aguero loses out to Shearer. De Bruyne vs Vieira was a tough one.

Edit: damn, Salah has to be in there doesn’t he. I guess Rooney or Henry would make way but it’s a coin toss.
 
Gio said:
Would you do the same when it comes to picking an all-time English league XI - i.e. have a number of the players from the all-conquering Liverpool side of the 70s and 80s?
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Hard to say. It would be difficult for 2 reasons:

1. I can't vividly remember any football before the mid 90's
2. The longer the time range, the harder the task

If this had been an all-time English league XI then I would also not have posted an XI of my own as I would not deem myself qualified.

32 years is a fairly reasonable time-range. But 10-20 years from now deciding in a PL XI will also be a nightmare. Hell, it's already getting really hard!
 
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