I think everything is wrong: confidence, chemistry, playing style, quality, coaching.
What is wrong with our attacking players?
- Thread starter Ayoba
- Start date
Its obvious to me.
Bruno - he's not that good
Rashford - he's not that good.
Holjund - a kid
Martial - garbage
Garnacho - a kid
Antony - garbage
Mount - too new
Our attacking players ability is pretty overrated in my opinion.
Rashford on form is world class but he is still super inconsistent. When he is bad he is terrible. Last season he hit a bit of a purple patch but he is bad more than he is good.
Fernandes is a high risk player but similar to Rashford is highly inconsistent. His goals and assist stats are great but he loses the ball a lot, way too much for a team that want to implement a possession based style of play.
Antony is ok but nowhere near top quality. Good premier league standard player but we shouldn't expect him to be as good as the top players in his position.
Hojlund and Garnacho can be very good but they are still young and you have to expect inconsistency in their performances. Martial can't stay fit for more than a couple of games.
The reality is if you compare our attacking players to the best teams in the league like City, Liverpool and Arsenal I think we are miles away in both ability and consistency.
Rashford on form is world class but he is still super inconsistent. When he is bad he is terrible. Last season he hit a bit of a purple patch but he is bad more than he is good.
Fernandes is a high risk player but similar to Rashford is highly inconsistent. His goals and assist stats are great but he loses the ball a lot, way too much for a team that want to implement a possession based style of play.
Antony is ok but nowhere near top quality. Good premier league standard player but we shouldn't expect him to be as good as the top players in his position.
Hojlund and Garnacho can be very good but they are still young and you have to expect inconsistency in their performances. Martial can't stay fit for more than a couple of games.
The reality is if you compare our attacking players to the best teams in the league like City, Liverpool and Arsenal I think we are miles away in both ability and consistency.
As a lot of these players can go away and look good for their countries, I am now worried that I am beginning to think it is the coaching. They are not shite as some are saying, also think that there is a lack of confidence. It has happened with strikers at this club before, but at the moment it is en masse.
Confidence no. It's just ability
The ones moaning about Bruno, we all knew that he was a high risk passer when we signed him, so why the shock when passes go astray, yet he can pull a rabbit out of the hat other times. Now you could look at the coaching to see if they do sessions on keeping possession and accurate passing and if they practice and practice it, or they have a run around the pitch, a few little practice games and lots of gym work. Unless someone can sneak in for a training session we don't know.
Rashford for one. I know he is our most threatening player but he also plays by himself most of the time. He is too predictable and hold up play too long. But big asset when we counter.
Bruno, exact opposite of Rashford, no consistency to his play. Gave the ball away 5 times to create one world class chance.
We rely too much on one Rashford breakaway or one Bruno magic pass.
Thats half of our attack there.
That said the coaching needs to take some responsibility here too. Either drill some attacking discipline to Bruno and Rashford or drop them
Bruno, exact opposite of Rashford, no consistency to his play. Gave the ball away 5 times to create one world class chance.
We rely too much on one Rashford breakaway or one Bruno magic pass.
Thats half of our attack there.
That said the coaching needs to take some responsibility here too. Either drill some attacking discipline to Bruno and Rashford or drop them
Yeah, I've written before that ETH's reputation is grossly inflated due to a UCL run five years ago.
That run was based on his team beating a Madrid team due to two or three of the best individual player performances in recent memory (Tadic 10/10 L'EQUIPE).
Everyone forgets they dumped themselves out against Spurs (fecking Spurs) by concerning 3 goals in 45 mins.
Outside of that, their UCL record was poor, ended up in the Europa League, got dumped out by small teams and generally struggled.
I don't think his ethos works, he can't control a game and he has that horrible Dutch coach trait of always focusing on Dutch players/Dutch league players.
Bought:
Antony
Malacia
Martinez
Amrabat
Onana
He also wanted Alvarez, De Jong, Timber, Gravenberch
Only two of those players is decent enough (FDJ and Martinez) and even then I'm not convinced on them both in reality.
He actually reminds me of LvG to an extent in that, the players look like they're instructed to only go into certain zones, lack any major creativity and if we concede we struggle. It's all to formulaic.
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Basically everything. Not enough team ethos, nor enough individual quality to overcome the absence of team ethos.
A whole host of issues, certain players simply aren’t good enough but the biggest issue is definitely tactical and coaching, it looks like we do nothing in training because what else could explain why the players look like they have never played with each other before.
Boring predictable wide players who cannot cross and create nothing when they cut inside. None of them are wingers, just a strange mix of selfish wide forwards all of who are out of form. A false 9 would create more space for them but we have a target man up front, fair enough because you can’t really play a false 9 and Bruno at 10, but now the entire thing is mix matched. Then behind them the midfield is even worse, genuinely no idea what the plan is there… our only dm (whose legs are going) seems to have free reign to play some Stevie G style hero ball when things aren’t going our way, leaving the porous midfield and weak defence to get sliced through by even the most average of attacking systems.
In short nothing is working, we look disjointed and can only rely on moments of individual skill to win us games. With no sign of improvement.
In short nothing is working, we look disjointed and can only rely on moments of individual skill to win us games. With no sign of improvement.
Thick. Selfish. Egotistical. Lazy. Mixed with crap coaching. Our attack is absolutely appalling on every level.
coaching a lack of.
No one here would swap our attackers with Newcastles. But they have scored 24 and we have 11.
No one here would swap our attackers with Newcastles. But they have scored 24 and we have 11.
People pretending this is just their level 
Why are you just highlighting the attacking players? It’s a TEAM game and yesterday they were playing no -league style football. The ball spent more time in the air than on the ground.
Individualistic ego obsessed big players - genuinely think there are some who would rather get a goal and we lose/draw than have a quiet hard working game and we win. You can see it rubbing off on younger players now as well, almost every attacking player we have will shoot in/around the box when a pass is on. That and Hollywood passes at every opportunity. Too easy to defend against.
Really quite simple, ETH needs to ask benny McCarthy what’s he’s doing as a striker coach because the goals have not improved since he become the striking coach, accountability starts at that point and then the manager, who is rapidly losing his support with such drab football.
I genuinely think Hojlund will struggle to get double figures in the PL, it’s not all on him but if you can’t hit the target against the bottom team your going to struggle 6 games no goals, right now if Antony martial is fit he should be playing and Hojlund coming from the bench against tired defenders where he has less pressure to score. He will struggle to cope with mounting pressure if he goes 10 or 11 games without a PL goal, the media will be out for him, another United waste of money , I fear for him?
We had no reason to spend £64m rising to £75m for a player that had not scored double figures in any of the top 5 Leagues.
Right now, if I was John Murtourgh and ETH I would be very worried if the rumours of Paul Mitchell are true, this crazy spending for the sake of spending has to stop and a team like United with a wage bill of nearly £300m must be able to find much better striker options for the squad positions than the following options available ;
M Rashford/ Age 26 low on confidence but good every other season so from a 5 season contract of £75-85 million cost to the club you might get 50-55 goals as an average or 10-11 per year and 5-6 assists
A Martial / Age 28 highly injury prone, sulks when he doesn’t play and his numbers are less than Rashfords You might get 15 PL games a season and 5 goals and 5 assists but then he sulks cause he’s on the bench!
Antony who is the biggest waste of money ever in the PL, the fact that ETH gave him a contract of £10m per year when he earned £25k per week at AJAX is a serious bout of nepotism that needs someone higher up than the manager losing their job for this travesty of mismanagement.
He’s going to play 25 games max, off field issues we knew about and still signed for someone who offers absolutely nothing in the PL at best 5 goals and 1 or 2 assists. We overpaid by £50m
Bruno who is are captain, on his day is a fantastic player, however it looks like the dross around him are dragging him down to their levels, his pass completion can be barely above 70% this season and he’s not hitting the net either at best with pens 8 goals and maybe 12 assists.
A Garnaucho - a wonderful talent but he should be kicking on this season and looking for double figures, unlucky so far but has £100m release clause in his contract which is a first for us and in itself hugely concerning?
Facundo Pellistri - Has the talent but he’s never going to make it in the physical PL, this guy will never get you 15 goals 10 assists in the PL so we should sell and upgrade.
Mason Mount - if you could chose the one English Attacking player from a very talented group right now who you should not buy , it would be Mason Mount, low on confidence, wants to play in a position that’s occupied by a better player and we gave him a £250k per week contract and spent £55m on him with 12. Months left on his contract!
Again if he get 5 goals this season I’ll be amazed. We overpaid by £20m
R Hojlund - A young kid with potential, quick strong but raw. Never scored double figures in any of the top 5 leagues, we overpaid by £35m again and if he ends up with 7 PL goals from this point that will be a huge upgrade on Weghorst
And finally we come to the Crown Jewels of the United squad;
Jadon Sancho won’t play, won’t turn up on time to train but happy to collect £350k per week and swan off on loan to Dortmund while we pay half his wages.
Seriously enough is enough, again we overpaid by £30m and this guy has no pace for a league that demands pace and intensity he’s had 2 and half years, maximum he’s produced is 5/6 goals 4 or 5 assists pathetic !
How many PL goals will they score between them even if you replace Sancho for Amad Dialo than at best you are looking 35-40 PL, now look at a the teams ahead of us ?
I don’t blame Hojlund, he’s a kid that at least has the right attitude and work ethic but if Murtourgh and ETH think they’ll keep their jobs when Jim Ratcliffe takes 25% controlling share, they are not reading the room correctly.
The club has overspent at least £140m if you throw in Martinez( I love this player but why are we discussing a new contract at £200k per week, no he’s not even a starter for Argentina!) and Casemiro in the last 3 years and that sizeable figure gets you a Herry Kane or a Victor Osimhen, if not the top tier then it gets you the one below with Ivan Toney and Mitoma, now if a young Hojlund was learning his trade and replacing Ivan Toney or Rashford had to play on the right sometimes to accommodate Mitoma or start from the bench occasionally we would be able to go from a team that struggles to score 60 PL goals a season to one that might score 75+.
Fans say it can’t be done, it’s not possible to jump so much from one season to the next, then how comes Newcastle, Brighton and Villa all look to be on a trajectory to do just that and have being improving in the goalscoring charts for the last two seasons?
Better coaching, better recruitment, more humble players not on £200k per week, better infrastructure, better managers, all of the above may be true but the real reason is these clubs recruit better men, not pampered boys who cry over the manager calling them out in training and more importantly they recruit better human beings who give everything to make the most of their very privileged opportunity in life.
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It boils down to the coaching.
How can Newcastle look so good with such an average group of players? It’s coaching.
There is something fundamentally wrong with the way we setup. Our play is slow, ponderous and boring. We get outplayed by literally every team we play. We don’t create hardly any chances. Players look like strangers on the pitch.
ETH is not an elite level manager. He’s had 18 months to implement his system and this is what we’ve got.
How can Newcastle look so good with such an average group of players? It’s coaching.
There is something fundamentally wrong with the way we setup. Our play is slow, ponderous and boring. We get outplayed by literally every team we play. We don’t create hardly any chances. Players look like strangers on the pitch.
ETH is not an elite level manager. He’s had 18 months to implement his system and this is what we’ve got.
Too many soloists in an era where the best results usually come from well-run orchestras. They give you the impression of students who are good at theory but they lose the plot when they have to apply said theory in real-life circumstances because it doesn't come natural to them. When things get tough, they tend to retreat back into their own shells and feel disappointed that the game isn't played the way they want it to be played. Most clubs rely on the ethos of their attacking players, we, on the other hand, live and die by their caprices.
There are also a lot of "component failures" which can be traced back to the manager's choices, but, then again, these are always bound to happen when the overarching objective is a very difficult task. It's like trying to fix a bike chain while still riding the bicycle because in our minds this particular bicycle can eventually get over the finish line first, although most of the bicycles ahead of us are better designs and improved versions of what we have.
They are much better than what they're currently showing. But think about what their absolute best can give us and where it can take us. In the age when control is key, wide areas are used to generate plays and most players in the attacking third possess several midfielder skills and attributes, we are still talking about out-and-out strikers and wingers who can take on their man and finish. It says a lot, really.
There are also a lot of "component failures" which can be traced back to the manager's choices, but, then again, these are always bound to happen when the overarching objective is a very difficult task. It's like trying to fix a bike chain while still riding the bicycle because in our minds this particular bicycle can eventually get over the finish line first, although most of the bicycles ahead of us are better designs and improved versions of what we have.
They are much better than what they're currently showing. But think about what their absolute best can give us and where it can take us. In the age when control is key, wide areas are used to generate plays and most players in the attacking third possess several midfielder skills and attributes, we are still talking about out-and-out strikers and wingers who can take on their man and finish. It says a lot, really.
It was always going to be a stupid decision to rely on such a young and inexperienced player.
He’s probably a couple of years away from being good enough to bear the brunt of a top teams goal scoring responsibility.
Unfortunately he isn’t a Haaland or Rooney that were elite level at 20. He needs time to develop.
I think it's a combination of injuries and a fear to make things worse from the coach. For example, Bruno is burnt out and is playing so poorly.... the same thing with Rashford and Anthony but the manager fears dropping them because it may break team morale, given everything around Sancho...so he just plays them and hopes for the best. Bruno should be dropped and so should Rashford...allow them to come on as subs, but they need to be dropped for a bit. Funnily enough, the squad is able to handle their absences better than losing a defender.
Would rather play Amrabat, mount, and Eriksen and ditch Bruno for the next few games. Garnacho over Rashford...Amad as soon as possible over Anthony. Benching players helps them, it makes them better. Maguire looks great after being benched. We need to do the same for our attackers. Hojlund is focused on running in behind and doesn't link up a lot. Martial does the opposite but I think he has a better handle on when to come short and link up or to run behind. Just need to make players earn their spots...if martial plays well when he comes on, start him. If onana is poor game after game...play the second choice GK. Maguire played well, he should keep his spot over Lindeloff or Evans.
Just have the guts to make the decisions, don't reward poor performances with more starts. Casemiro has been horrible for a bit, bench him. Ferguson used to do this. Pep does this. Ten Hag needs to do this.
Would rather play Amrabat, mount, and Eriksen and ditch Bruno for the next few games. Garnacho over Rashford...Amad as soon as possible over Anthony. Benching players helps them, it makes them better. Maguire looks great after being benched. We need to do the same for our attackers. Hojlund is focused on running in behind and doesn't link up a lot. Martial does the opposite but I think he has a better handle on when to come short and link up or to run behind. Just need to make players earn their spots...if martial plays well when he comes on, start him. If onana is poor game after game...play the second choice GK. Maguire played well, he should keep his spot over Lindeloff or Evans.
Just have the guts to make the decisions, don't reward poor performances with more starts. Casemiro has been horrible for a bit, bench him. Ferguson used to do this. Pep does this. Ten Hag needs to do this.
it can't be coaching, most of this lot have had three or four different coaching teams to work under and they just persist on doing the same dumb stuff over and over again, look at Ten Hags face during every single match we play... most of them do whatever they want... was it two weeks ago that Mount had to tell Dalot to actually try and overlap?.. it's embarrassing
How about a player attacks the space on the wing, drives for the by line and crosses the ball in early for the other forwards to attack?
Rather than cut back inside and come into congestion, lose all impetus and then lose possession.
ETH needs to show the players some old videos of Giggs and Valencia.
Rather than cut back inside and come into congestion, lose all impetus and then lose possession.
ETH needs to show the players some old videos of Giggs and Valencia.
I think yesterday was the first time I saw ten Hag visibly angry and shouting towards the end
It's the tactics and the midfield behind them. We don't have anyone who's careful and creative on the ball, all we have is Bruno who is all action, pass first, think later. We need a creative midfielder who can keep the ball. We also need tactics that allow our attacking players to thrive.
Yep I’m starting to think the same, we really should go for De Zerbie, an actual elite coach just make the change now or at Xmas when and if we are out of the CL, if ETH can improve things between now and then and somehow manage to get 33-36 points after 19-20 games and remain in the CL, then give him a stay of execution but the club buys Ivan Toney on January 1st and tells ETH he’s his starting number 9, they tell Bruno Toney taking pens, if we offload F Pellstri, J Sancho, A Martial and a confrontational sale but R Varane( I say this because his injury record is getting worse and a Saudi team will pay £40m more likely than any team will pay that for Maguire).
I’d keep Maguire until the summer, buy Todibo, loan K Thurham and buy Ivan Toney this January 2024.
We might get £100m for the 4 players I’ve mentioned and we should be able to get Toney and Todibo for £120m plus Maguire will be just fine as a 3rd/4th pace CB option until we have more funds in place. He was outstanding last night even though we all know he has a ticket in him, he should keep his place for City based on that performance.
our biggest problem right now is scoring goals and ETH needs to show that he can improve that part of the team very quickly or maybe he’ll end up being marginalised by the new management of the club if he doesn’t ?
It’s strange but Eriksen with Amrabat actually looked much better in that last 30 mins than we’ve had in ages. Eriksen needs to get himself fit and force himself back into the side even if it’s only the first 60 minutes or the last 30 he’s still a class act especially if he’s got a more mobile 6 next to him. We could play with a dynamic 4-1-2-1-2 but you have to have four fit full backs to play that system as they become more like wing backs and are shattered after 60-70 minutes when Shaw, Reguilon, Malacia, AWB and Dalot are all fit we should try this 2 start, 2 on the bench but a starting 11 with; Onana,Dalot,Varane,Martinez/Shaw(Left CB) , Shaw /Reguilon Casemiero, Amrabat, Eriksen, Bruno, and any 2 from these Rashford/Martial and Hojlund as your twin strikers. You put AWB in that team at half time and move Dalot to the left you really do have an attacking set up that’s difficult to counter?
Room to improve but I think he's already pretty good. He'd already have at least 5 league goals in that City team if he was playing as CF - not at Haaland levels in terms of finishing, but he's still (a) been generally hitting the target and been desperately unlucky -6 inches here and there, plus goalies typically pulling off their A-game when facing us (Johnstone for Palace, Wes the Sheffield United guy), and at least one ruled out for very marginal reasons (b) making runs across and behind which are good and potentially would have brought a few more chances but no-one (except for Bruno, with his decidedly erratic radar) seems to think to try and find him.
When Fernandes is giving the ball away constantly even with simple passes in our own half we’re not likely to do much up the other end of the pitch, I’ve always been a fan of Fernandes but I’ll admit his goals and assists record clouded my opinion of his overall game and I’ve seen over the past 18 months he is often our biggest problem.
We’re so disjointed and unbalanced that there’s zero cohesion, Antony offers nothing outside of shooting after cutting in and his work rate which isn’t what you buy an £80 million forward for whilst Rashford with no confidence offers nothing other than a warm body.
Fernandes is too individualistic and wants to do what he wants rather than what’s best for the team, Hojlund is exempt right now as he’s only a couple of months in and has actually looked good and Martial is Martial so a multi year long problem that’s out of contract next summer and will almost certainly be moved on.
We’re so disjointed and unbalanced that there’s zero cohesion, Antony offers nothing outside of shooting after cutting in and his work rate which isn’t what you buy an £80 million forward for whilst Rashford with no confidence offers nothing other than a warm body.
Fernandes is too individualistic and wants to do what he wants rather than what’s best for the team, Hojlund is exempt right now as he’s only a couple of months in and has actually looked good and Martial is Martial so a multi year long problem that’s out of contract next summer and will almost certainly be moved on.
Why take one touch when you can take four or five.
We don't score enough most seasons, yet continue to rely on mostly the same personnel with additions who also historically don't score or create enough.
Antony is just utterly useless. He proves it game after game by providing no threat whatsoever.
Someone needs to tell Rashford he doesn’t need to stand still for 5 seconds every time he receives the ball.
Someone needs to tell Rashford he doesn’t need to stand still for 5 seconds every time he receives the ball.
It's a total lack of brains, awareness and composure.
That is all, you can have all the technical ability and flippy flappy dribbling skills in the world. If you lack brains, awareness and composure your fecked.
That is all, you can have all the technical ability and flippy flappy dribbling skills in the world. If you lack brains, awareness and composure your fecked.
We’re not very clinical but most of all we create so little. Selfish players and terrible decision making time and time again. We look disjointed. It’s not as if it’s loads of new players getting used to each other either, for them to still be playing like this is inexcusable and disappointing.
We have too much a go it alone mentality. Even though I liked Garnacho's introduction he did the same as Rashford mostly. if they do pass it's too late and they've run out of room.
At least Rashford got a taste on the right of what it's like to play with someone like him. He was open for a pass to score yet Garnacho elected to go it alone.
Our right wing is pretty isolated, it's why no-one does well, Antony battles with 2-3 players, Sancho is just passive there, no real way to connect which I predicted would happen. it's very hard work playing for us, it's hero football.
At least Rashford got a taste on the right of what it's like to play with someone like him. He was open for a pass to score yet Garnacho elected to go it alone.
Our right wing is pretty isolated, it's why no-one does well, Antony battles with 2-3 players, Sancho is just passive there, no real way to connect which I predicted would happen. it's very hard work playing for us, it's hero football.
There are no creative players in the team except Bruno who’s been shocking.
We have brought poor attacking wise, it feels completely disjointed and no real chemistry and that tactics also come into play because we saw this bland football last year and was papered over rashford in the form of his career so far
Antony isnt great but he was part of two of the best chances. He made the cross to Rashford that Rashford crossed to Hojlund and where Hojlund came a second too late. Antony also pressed the Sheffield player, got the ball and passed it to Bruno who passed it to Rashford for Rashford to miss. Antony could and maybe should have been involved in two goals. Atleast one.
Its not like Antony has no threat at al or none whatsoever. Its not what you want a 90m player to do but there is also the overreaction (like yours) that he doesnt do anything at all.
Havnt we gone over this again and again with this team. The blame lies with the manager more than anything else. He is responsible for the implementation of formations and instructions. And these instructions are not getting through.
In attack its all too hurried and chaotic. The players are not looking for each other enough and the gap between Hojlund and the others is far to big. Bruno for all his deficiencies excels in the middle not on the wings. He's played out of position. Anthony is awful and doesn't create enough. I still have faith in Rashford but when he's bad he's bad. I back him going on a run some stage.
The season is becoming predictable. We will win a lot of games with 1 goal margins. They'll be some drubbings when we lose our heads. The majority of the top 10 sides will outplay us at home and away. Therefore I think we will finish between 6-9th. Unless things change drastically (confidence returns, we beat a major side convincingly, or we get the majority of first team defenders come back before xmas) it's going to be tough. There's just not enough goals in the team.
In attack its all too hurried and chaotic. The players are not looking for each other enough and the gap between Hojlund and the others is far to big. Bruno for all his deficiencies excels in the middle not on the wings. He's played out of position. Anthony is awful and doesn't create enough. I still have faith in Rashford but when he's bad he's bad. I back him going on a run some stage.
The season is becoming predictable. We will win a lot of games with 1 goal margins. They'll be some drubbings when we lose our heads. The majority of the top 10 sides will outplay us at home and away. Therefore I think we will finish between 6-9th. Unless things change drastically (confidence returns, we beat a major side convincingly, or we get the majority of first team defenders come back before xmas) it's going to be tough. There's just not enough goals in the team.
Last season Antony had 2 assists in 26 league games. We provide no threat at all from the right, unless it’s the full back. His continued inclusion simply cannot be justified on the basis of his output but Ten Hag will never drop him because Antony is his favourite.