What does Leny Yoro and Matthijs De Ligt both being successful signings look like, in real terms?…

I definitely took for granted what having a solid defence is like. Remember a vidic ferdinand pairing? Or even vidic Evans? It just pours confidence into the team and id love to see a partnership like that emerge
 
King7Eric said:
There is no written rule that I'm aware of which says a right footed player can't play at LCB. ETH might prefer it but there's plenty of successful teams playing two right footers at CB.

Long term, I think Yoro and De Ligt will become our CB partnership. I think Martinez will lose his starting spot towards the end of this season/next season, even if he can stay regularly fit. Martinez is a very good player but he doesn't have Elite CB quality ( apart from his ability to play out from the back).

If we do indeed go for someone like Branthwaite next season, then there's also the possibility of Yoro playing at RB for a bit. He'll only be 19 next season, so it'll be good for his education.
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Martinez is still comfortably our best CB. If he stays injury free there’s zero chance he gets replaced.
 
Ten Hag has been on record saying that martinez doesn't have the 'running capacity' to play in midfield.

Can we just let this debate end.
 
I mean Maguire, Lindelof, Evans played 40-50% of your minutes in the PL last season I believe each so there was clearly a need for 2 CB's.

Ultimately if Yoro and De Ligt both turn out to be successes, I would imagine Martinez as the most versatile player of the 3 would probably be used in a more versatile role. Can see him covering LB for sure, and perhaps even DM in some games.

I don't think there's any great cause for concern here. The odds that both pan out are probably slim as it is, and Martinez has ultimately only had a one good debut season and then been injured all of his 2nd year pretty much so is still somewhat unproven long-term.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Martinez is still comfortably our best CB. If he stays injury free there’s zero chance he gets replaced.
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That's because De Ligt and Yoro haven't kicked a ball in a Utd shirt. Let's see how it pans out but I'm quite sure he will no longer be first choice in the next 12-18 months.

Not that I don't like him, mind you. I just think De Ligt is better and if Yoro plays to his potential, then he'll be better than Licha too.
 
King7Eric said:
That's because De Ligt and Yoro haven't kicked a ball in a Utd shirt. Let's see how it pans out but I'm quite sure he will no longer be first choice in the next 12-18 months.

Not that I don't like him, mind you. I just think De Ligt is better and if Yoro plays to his potential, then he'll be better than Licha too.
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To be better than Martinez you have to be one of the very best in the world, like a saliba, Van Dyke. There’s a chance we may have lucked out and Yoro and De Ligt end up that good, but it’s unlikely they both end up at that level. Martinez is in the best of the rest category at CB, absolutely world class and I’d argue our best player currently alongside Bruno.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
To be better than Martinez you have to be one of the very best in the world, like a saliba, Van Dyke. There’s a chance we may have lucked out and Yoro and De Ligt end up that good, but it’s unlikely they both end up at that level. Martinez is in the best of the rest category at CB, absolutely world class and I’d argue our best player currently alongside Bruno.
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I'm sorry I don't agree with this assessment. Martinez is very good but I would not label him world class. But anyway, this is not a thread about Martinez so let's not derail it. I guess we will see in an year or so where we stand.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
To be better than Martinez you have to be one of the very best in the world, like a saliba, Van Dyke. There’s a chance we may have lucked out and Yoro and De Ligt end up that good, but it’s unlikely they both end up at that level. Martinez is in the best of the rest category at CB, absolutely world class and I’d argue our best player currently alongside Bruno.
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Martinez has been too inconsistent to rate him at that level. It was really only three or four months in his first season when he was 'that' good, plus the odd game here and there since then. His form had already dropped off quite a lot before the injury issues started.

Obviously the hope is that he does get back to that level and then shows it consistently from this point forward, but until then it's not that out there to imagine De Ligt and Yoro might end up being better.
 
Rozay said:
We have spent good money on two RCBs who have their better years ahead of them. Naturally, our hope is that both are a success here. Assuming they are, how does that play out, practically?
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As explained in The Athletic piece on Utd today. Yoro was bought knowing his game time would be managed and another CB would be bought in this summer i.e. de ligt.

Also apparently we need about Yoros metatarsal in his medical scans and the club decided to proceed with the transfer as it was too good and opportunity to miss. Yoro was only only training in 50% of the sessions as Utd were managing the metertarsal issue before it broke.

No plans to rush Yoro back, will be managed properly.

There's enough games and they come think and fast for everyone to play a lot of football.
 
Long term success would look like them becoming first choice on merit, and giving us the option of selling Martinez if his injury problems persist. If they can all stay fit for the most part, it would mean us not having to spend anything substantial on a CB for the next 3 years.
 
Skills said:
Long term success would look like them becoming first choice on merit, and giving us the option of selling Martinez if his injury problems persist. If they can all stay fit for the most part, it would mean us not having to spend anything substantial on a CB for the next 3 years.
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Exactly which just leaves us to now needing to sort out a balanced midfield and a prolific forward line.
 
MadDogg said:
Martinez has been too inconsistent to rate him at that level. It was really only three or four months in his first season when he was 'that' good, plus the odd game here and there since then. His form had already dropped off quite a lot before the injury issues started.

Obviously the hope is that he does get back to that level and then shows it consistently from this point forward, but until then it's not that out there to imagine De Ligt and Yoro might end up being better.
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I don’t agree. His form has only been impacted by injuries. Every time he’s had a run and been fit he’s delivered consistent 7-8/10 performances. Frankly he’s one of the most consistent players I’ve seen at Utd in the last decade. I just hope he can put his injuries behind him because I’m fairly certain there’d be zero doubt of his quality if that happens.
 
Irwin99 said:
Not comparing them in quality but Real Madrid had Varane, Pepe and Ramos for years and they all played a lot of games what with Varane's injuries and all the red cards for Ramos. As others have said De Ligt can play LCB i believe and Martinez can play left back (though i have to admit i'm not sure i like this idea, and i prefer him in the centre). It will all work out.
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I’d be tempted to play Martinez as CDM if De Ligt and Yoro cemented the CB spots.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
I don’t agree. His form has only been impacted by injuries. Every time he’s had a run and been fit he’s delivered consistent 7-8/10 performances. Frankly he’s one of the most consistent players I’ve seen at Utd in the last decade. I just hope he can put his injuries behind him because I’m fairly certain there’d be zero doubt of his quality if that happens.
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I think most people agreed that his form after Christmas in his first season dropped off quite a bit. He wasn't bad (although did have individual bad games), but he wasn't one of the best in the league like he had been from September through December.
 
Varane arrived at Madrid in 2011, Pepe left in 2017 at 35.

If 7 years from now we have to move Licha or De Ligt on due to game time issue when they are 32/33, so be it. Until then, just count our lucky stars that we have three quality options to choose from. I’m old enough to remember when we had Rio, Vidic, Evans, Brown and O Shea and still ended up playing a backline of Carrick-Fletcher somehow.
 
Not to mention DeLigt is very comfortable at LCB
 
MadDogg said:
I think most people agreed that his form after Christmas in his first season dropped off quite a bit. He wasn't bad (although did have individual bad games), but he wasn't one of the best in the league like he had been from September through December.
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I don’t remember thinking that at all, or that being the consensus. He was exceptional all season.
 
fps said:
Oh no, he’s a RCB! What happens if he has to play 30 feet over to the left as a LCB?! Oh no he’s fallen over his own feet! Can’t be doing this to a quality player, he doesn’t know where he is out there now.
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Matthijs can also play very good as a LCB when he went to Juventus he had to cover that due to chiellini and bonucci’s inhuries.
 
florisW said:
Matthijs can also play very good as a LCB when he went to Juventus he had to cover that due to chiellini and bonucci’s inhuries.
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I’m sure he’d be fine. It’s still playing centre back, it’s not like they asked him to plan a new town centre or something.
 
I think the point of new signings should be to raise the floor, not the ceiling.

Sounds counterintuitive, but I genuinely believe you are only as good as your weakest link(s).

I believe we had this backwards under Woodward. Very often he'd be chasing that one big stellar name each Summer to raise the ceiling...but the overall base standard never improved.
 
Similar to the way Man City use Stones, Dias, Akanji etc. Rotate players in and out accordingly with form, fatigue and injuries. In the short-term, it means keeping Jonny Evans away from regular competitive football - and that isn't meant in a disparaging way to him.
 
Lentwood said:
I think the point of new signings should be to raise the floor, not the ceiling.

Sounds counterintuitive, but I genuinely believe you are only as good as your weakest link(s).

I believe we had this backwards under Woodward. Very often he'd be chasing that one big stellar name each Summer to raise the ceiling...but the overall base standard never improved.
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I agree entirely with this.

Far too often we've looked like we have a decent starting 11 when everyones fit and in form, but how often is that?
 
It seems to me INEOS and ETH have the right idea in how they’ve built the back line. Yoro is still very young and can’t possibly expect to be a bailed on starter. Maguire will serve when called on. Martinez and De Ligt will start unless their form drops or they need to tend to their fitness. Evans for deep cover, and I assume Lindelof will be sold.
 
Yoro is 18 turning 19 soon, De Ligt is 25. In reality, center backs don't peak until the age that De Ligt is now. Yoro has loads of development to do, but in the mean time he can be the 3rd CB after De Ligt and Martinez which would see him have loads of gametime anyway so that's fine. I wouldn't assume he is an automatic starter when everyone is fit until his 2nd contract here though, and the 2 are the perfect age gap for Yoro to eventually take over from De Ligt or Martinez without it taking too long, but also good enough to fill in as needed in case of injuries and rotate them out to rest them.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Varane arrived at Madrid in 2011, Pepe left in 2017 at 35.

If 7 years from now we have to move Licha or De Ligt on due to game time issue when they are 32/33, so be it. Until then, just count our lucky stars that we have three quality options to choose from. I’m old enough to remember when we had Rio, Vidic, Evans, Brown and O Shea and still ended up playing a backline of Carrick-Fletcher somehow.
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This is the real comparison here. Varane was 18 when he went to Madrid and was a squad player for 3 seasons where he had significantly fewer minutes than Ramos and Pepe. In his 4th season, they all shared and had similar game time. Only in his 5th season did he actually take over as being the main CB from Pepe alongside Ramos.

That's how I'd expect it to go here too. Yoro is 18. 5 years from now when De Ligt and Martinez are 30, he'll be 23, turning 24 in the season. No issue whatsoever IMO, in fact it's the perfect age blend at CB.
 
When did this RCB / LCB obsession begin? Is it a Dutch thing?
 
Anyone else think there’s a possibility of a back 3 (with 2 wingbacks) to be tried this season?

Martinez-De Ligt-Yoro looks a solid back 3 with Shaw/Mazraoui and Dalot as wingbacks
 
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