We have spent good money on two RCBs who have their better years ahead of them. Naturally, our hope is that both are a success here. Assuming they are, how does that play out, practically?
What does Leny Yoro and Matthijs De Ligt both being successful signings look like, in real terms?…
- Thread starter Rozay
- Start date
Hasn't done City any harm
They perform well?
Like it should be, of teams keep having 50+ games even 60+ games seasons, then not a single players should start all that or play 90 min all that. That's why you need quality depth and internal healthy competition within the club.
Success is that their injuries perfectly dovetail along with Martinez, all three get an even share of games at 40 a season, and our defence becomes what it used to be.
We realise that it's absolutely possible to play two right footed CBs together and that between them and Martinez we have 3 top class CBs for the long term?
We win some silverware and keep a few clean sheets.
I don't understand why people seem to be sent into a panic by the idea of having a couple of good players for the same position.
Not to mention that De Ligt played LCB next to Bonucci at Juve, and when paired with Upamecano at Bayern. If we're playing West Ham or Everton, we probably want to play both of them. If Martinez is injured or rested, we can play both of them. Yoro also probably has the attributes to cover RB if needed as well.
Not to mention that De Ligt played LCB next to Bonucci at Juve, and when paired with Upamecano at Bayern. If we're playing West Ham or Everton, we probably want to play both of them. If Martinez is injured or rested, we can play both of them. Yoro also probably has the attributes to cover RB if needed as well.
I think maybe this point is overlooked. If Martinez is out for whatever reason, then it's extremely likely that Yoro and De Ligt will play together. Would be a bit mad to for Evans instead, just cause he seems more naturally comfortable as a LCB
The competition brings out the best in Maguire and Lindelof who cement themselves as our first choice CB pairing for the next 4 years. White text
If we play 60 games this season, all 3 could start 40 each. Success then would come down to how well they play.
Having enough minutes for the 3 of them is not going to be an issue.
Having enough minutes for the 3 of them is not going to be an issue.
Same way Gvardiol, Ake, Stones, Akanji and Dias do. Being important part of a successful team.
By cementing themselves as the best pairing in the league, which hopefully forms part of a successful team over time
There is no panic. And I appreciate that we could simply split games equally between all centre backs, which seems to be the general response so far. However, that suggests at a team seeking to fond its best partnership to me.
Maguire and Lindelof played 50 games a season together under Ole. Saliba and Gabriel play 50 games a season together at Arsenal. Branthwaite and Tarkowski played every game together last season. Teams that don’t have any clear hierarchy can rotate. But Van Dijk will generally start when fit.
Hence why I am specifically asking on the basis of both achieving what we hope they do. To answer the question myself, I would imagine De Ligt will be a substitute, and either be content or leave. If Yoro becomes who we hope he becomes, then he will start almost every game when fit.
I’m not sure this rotation everyone speaks of is a practical reality at the top. We can all name Real Madrid’s dominant centre half partnerships of the last 15 odd years. It was Ramos and Pepe then Ramos and Varane.
the main thing for me is the ability to play a high line which hopefully means ETH can play his preferred style.. but even if we sack him it's very useful for any new manager coming in
We have options. We can rotate based on opposition, form and fitness. That's a positive thing, not a problem. You don't have to commit to two starters who play every last game and leave the other one rotting on the bench.
You talk about Arsenal, and they've brought another highly rated CB in precisely because they know they'd be fecked if they were relying on just keeping their first choice partnership fit and having them play every game. Their luck with injuries won't last forever, and there could be 60-odd games to play over the course of the season.
You talk about Real Madrid, and they had all of Rudiger, Nacho, Tchouaméni, Alaba, Militao have significant minutes at CB last season. If all they had was their clear, frontline partnership of Rudiger and Militao, and then a load of second rate choices as backup, they'd have been fecked. With their actual depth, they won the league and CL. It hasn't done City any harm to have about 5 good options at CB either.
Knowing United they'll be injured all the time and play very little
Not comparing them in quality but Real Madrid had Varane, Pepe and Ramos for years and they all played a lot of games what with Varane's injuries and all the red cards for Ramos. As others have said De Ligt can play LCB i believe and Martinez can play left back (though i have to admit i'm not sure i like this idea, and i prefer him in the centre). It will all work out.
Pepe wasn't too happy. At the time of Varane's emergence Mourinho said "Pepe has a problem and that problem is called Varane" (IIRC). Of course it would be fantastic to have three elite centre backs, but for the biggest games one will miss out. Certainly would be much more enjoyable to have those discussions than the discussions about whom we'd most like to ship out or who is the biggest disappointment or worst ever signing, which has been the story of the last decade I suppose.
Way less shots on goal. Better plus minus (that aint hard), more clean sheets and good playing out the back
De Ligt needs to go in hard on Salah at Old Trafford.
Typical us, to be honest.
De Ligt will have to bring an immediate improvement to the first team which gives room to Yoro to get acclimatized to the PL and being in a big team as a teenager, and with Licha, this means we will have what hopefully turns out to be 3 quality CBs competing for a start and sharing the load of 60+ games season.
They stay fit!
Narrow the gap between midfield and defence, able to keep the ball better and start attacks from the back more. That could be vital to the way we play, apart from them being better defenders
Using dark mode on here has really changed the white text game
Us not asking for a new starting CB for the next 4 years it's all I'm asking this endless rebuild has to end. Players cementing their spots it's all I ask to call it success for a signing. If we do it right there's no reason why we can actually challenge in the medium term.
38 clean sheets
I have low hopes.
If Lena can feature in 20 games this season, and De Ligt 30, that'll be massive.
They're both solid players so we'll be stronger in defence than last year if so
If Lena can feature in 20 games this season, and De Ligt 30, that'll be massive.
They're both solid players so we'll be stronger in defence than last year if so
Oh no, he’s a RCB! What happens if he has to play 30 feet over to the left as a LCB?! Oh no he’s fallen over his own feet! Can’t be doing this to a quality player, he doesn’t know where he is out there now.
This is it exactly. While you would expect that two of them will establish themselves as the slightly stronger partnership that is preferred for the bigger games, ideally all three end up playing a similar amount of matches. And really, that strongest partnership may change depending on form and opposition. Martinez has the slight edge since he's the only left footer, but De Ligt has played enough on the left that he and Yoro could easily work.
There may be times we play all three as well, with Martinez at leftback (I'm hoping his poor game against City was just rustiness) or Yoro perhaps at rightback. The one who doesn't start will often come off the bench as well, either to replace one of the starting two in most games or we'll then play all three to see out tight games.
Longterm, if two of them establish themselves as clear first choice and playing significantly more than the third, then the one that is missing out may look to leave. But that would hopefully be at least three seasons away, and most likely more if (as I think most expect) we start off with Yoro being the one playing slightly less but then forcing himself into first choice in a few seasons time. Let's say it's De Ligt that drops down the pecking order a little at that point, I'd expect he'd still stay to fight for his spot for another year or two after that. So we're then looking five or so seasons into the future, at which time we replace him with another young star in the Yoro mould that will then start the process again and estabish himself just as Martinez needs replacing.
There is no written rule that I'm aware of which says a right footed player can't play at LCB. ETH might prefer it but there's plenty of successful teams playing two right footers at CB.
Long term, I think Yoro and De Ligt will become our CB partnership. I think Martinez will lose his starting spot towards the end of this season/next season, even if he can stay regularly fit. Martinez is a very good player but he doesn't have Elite CB quality ( apart from his ability to play out from the back).
If we do indeed go for someone like Branthwaite next season, then there's also the possibility of Yoro playing at RB for a bit. He'll only be 19 next season, so it'll be good for his education.
Long term, I think Yoro and De Ligt will become our CB partnership. I think Martinez will lose his starting spot towards the end of this season/next season, even if he can stay regularly fit. Martinez is a very good player but he doesn't have Elite CB quality ( apart from his ability to play out from the back).
If we do indeed go for someone like Branthwaite next season, then there's also the possibility of Yoro playing at RB for a bit. He'll only be 19 next season, so it'll be good for his education.
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Martinez would be back up/LB.
A year ago, teh Hag said that he could/would use Lisandro in defensive midfield, but didn't want to upset the balance in central defense. With de Ligt and Yoro, we now have 2 starters and Martinez could be put into defensive midfield to strengthen the central defense and take the pressure off the attackers. Just an idea...
Agreed, and in the very likely event that two of them are injured at the same time, occasionally having one regular with a backup shouldn’t be as disruptive.
Assuming all three are fit for the majority of this season, I’d like to see them rotated frequently and the organisation staying the same.
It represents a good change to fixing our pretty lacklustre defensive options over the years after having the likes of Bailly, Jones and Rojo start for us.
A good team is built on a good defence as the old adage goes.
A good team is built on a good defence as the old adage goes.
In an ideal world - De Ligt is first choice and we manage Yoro’s development as a young player by picking and choosing the moments to play him. With the number of games we play, he could still get 30 starts a season for the next two years.
Then we have a phase where they compete for the first team, winner stays on.
Then when De Ligt gets to be about 29, Yoro outclasses him and we sell him to some schmuk club like we used to be who pay a big transfer fee to us and big wages to him, just before he falls off his peak. We keep Yoro and then pick up the next classy 18yo to compete with him and start the cycle again.
Then we have a phase where they compete for the first team, winner stays on.
Then when De Ligt gets to be about 29, Yoro outclasses him and we sell him to some schmuk club like we used to be who pay a big transfer fee to us and big wages to him, just before he falls off his peak. We keep Yoro and then pick up the next classy 18yo to compete with him and start the cycle again.
I read we knew he (Yoro) had an issue during his medical.
<10 goals conceded in the entire season
Do you have a link for this?