What do we think it will take for high level changes to be made?

United Hobbit

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We are almost all seeing the problems at the club go a lot higher than Ole (we will leave whether he is out of his depth for the other threads)

However what do we think would cause changes above him?

-The owners: what would make them sell?

-Woodward: is there anyway he would be removed/ removed solely to the corporate side while the current owners are here? If so what would be the tipping point? I'm perfectly fine with him staying and working solely on bringing in sponsorship etc but he isnt good at the football side of it. When will some accountability be held? Are the repeated failures in the transfer market due to him/ negotiators or do we actually have no money?

-This fabled director of football we supposedly keep bringing in- what will it take for us to finally get one?

-Scouting- does this need an overhaul? Why aren't we finding these diamonds in the rough types such as an Andy Robertson from Hull type who now looks an absolute steal.

-when will it get to a point where the club stops selling itself? When will Ed and Co no longer just be able to sell Manchester United based on the name? When do we caese becoming a big club? Obviously not as big but the likes of Sunderland used to be a big club...

Obviously know we can't truly answer but what would it take for the high level changes to happen that would allow the club to move forward? Like I say Ole is another debate but if he's removed before the problems above him are addressed, any future manager is being sold down the river again.
 
As long as Glazers own the club then Woodward is here to stay, and as long as the club generates ton of money Glazers won't sell.

So nothing is going to change for the near future.
 
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Just theoretically speaking, two years of a coordinated massive boycott and sustained global awareness campaign should lower the price enough to give any prospective buyer the financial and publicity leverage. Couple notes:

1. You've put up with seven years of shit and fifteen years of being lied to and manipulated. You can grit your teeth and bear such a campaign for two years.
2. This is not 'not supporting the club and the players'. Beware the 'I will never not support the players' bullshit that the opportunists will employ as they try to hide behind the playing staff.
3. Snake-types will also try to float the idea that such a campaign will inadvertently cripple the club permanently. This also is bullshit. The fanbase controls the money spigot.

There are bound to still be supporters who think the Glazers - while not PSG/City/Chelsea wealthy - have considerable financial resources and can weather any storm. This is not the case.
 
Some sort of event to put the Glazers in deep enough financial trouble that they need the cash that could be gained from selling. That's about it. Woodward isn't going anywhere because he's making the club buckets of money commercially, and if the ownership is actually content with just qualifying for the UCL then taking the cash from that and putting it in their pockets instead of reinvesting, then they have no reason to get rid of Ed. It's quite depressing to think about really.
 
Saudis or some other rich feckers of their ilk to swoop in and buy us.
 
Everyone responds when sufficient pressure is applied.

We currently lack the focus and widespread anger required for the kind of mass actions that would have an impact. Though I hope that time is finally getting closer with this current shambles of a transfer market. We do need to act at some point. Sunderland is a good example, there are many more of once great clubs suffering permanent decline.
 
This is a very tricky time for the likes of big corporate owners. Future very uncertain. A massive social media campaign around some symbol (not just the obvious hashtag) - I mean the green and gold was good, whatever. It has to catch the public imagination. Something like that - even a join up between Buccaneers fans and United fans. Put it on banners, fly it over the stadium, on ever platform real and virtual. Enlist Rio, Evra, Neville, Beckham, Keano, Rooney, Cantona.

Make it uncomfortable for them. That’s the answer. PR is the lifeblood.
 
Campaigns won't work, because those usually go out the window once we go on a run of good form and everyone is feeling happy.
 
The thing is, it wouldn't even take huge sweeping changes to improve things.

As things stand, we are a (relatively) well run business and a poorly run football club. I say relatively because the money with have wasted on poor decision making in the footballing side of the club is not good business for anyone, except maybe a few agents.

Surely there are semi regular meetings at which performance levels in all areas are addressed? How does Ed Woodward stand up in those meetings and justify his decision making over the last decade?

In what world could the Glazers not say "look mate, you're superb in the financial and commercial side of things so we'd like to have you focus on that, but even you'd have to admit that you're a bit shit at this football business so let's bring in somebody else" and not be completely reasonable in doing so?

We've all long known that there needs to be a footballing structure put into place, be it a Director of Football or whatever else. There needs to be a clearly defined strategy put in place encompassing style of football, profile of player and board/club expectations, then a budget can be given to them each year and the football decision makers can make the decisions. Bring in an expert on handling, negotiating and completing transfers and have the manager, the head of youth development, the chief scout, the director of football and this expert meet regularly to lay out exactly where the club stands in relation to its footballing strategy:

What is the situation with the first team? Does every player we currently have fit the principles of our defined strategy? Are we carrying players who don't fit the profile we're looking for? What gaps do we have that are preventing us from playing the way we want to play?​
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Does every one of our coaches currently add something we need? Are there areas we could bring better options in? Are there areas of our play we need to improve in order to achieve the style of play we have outlined and are there specialists we can bring in to improve in those areas? The same goes for our medical, physio, sports science and sports data teams.​
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What is the situation in the academy and reserves? Are we developing young players with the same values and technical skills that we are looking for in the first team? Are we providing a clear pathway for those players to reach the first team? Are there any players coming through who might fill the gaps we have identified in the first team squad?​
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When we have a clear understanding and analysis of our own players, options, requirements and deficiencies, we can provide our scouting team with clear and concise instructions. We can target gaps that need filling and identify the correct profile of player to fill those gaps. Instead of a scattergun approach, our scouts will be focused and armed with an intimate knowledge of the style and personality of what a Manchester United player is.​

In fairness to Ole, where a lot of this basic strategising blatantly wasn't going on over the last decade, or was happening in a far less cohesive or wholistic manner depending on the whims of the three disastrous managers appointed or even the ego of Woodward himself, I feel that he has come in with a real understanding of the club and what our profile and expectations should be. I would say he has addressed several of the issues above with the profile of player we are looking at and the obvious attempts to clear out players who don't match the desired profile being obvious examples.

Where Ole is being let down, is at the final stage of the process. He has laid out a strategy that everyone can get behind and in line with that, he has identified what we need to bring in and who we need to get rid of, but he is being hamstrung by the clubs inability to get either of those things done. Whether it is because we have the wrong sort of people carrying out those jobs (lawyers and businessmen rather than football and transfer experts), or because of our previous ineptitude (telling the world we can do things others can only dream of, or giving mediocre footballers too much money and undeserved contract extensions), we are failing to support our manager.

Where for years we didn't appear to know what we were doing or where we were trying to get to, now we finally have a plan and we can't stick to it because we're still allowing the same people who got us lost in the wilderness in the first place, to be involved in the final stages of guiding us out.

Fix that and we'll be in a far better place. It can't be rocket science and unless Woodward throws his toys out of the pram (and let's face it, how can he?), it doesn't need to mean vast, sweeping changes. Just acknowledge that the commercial and footballing sides of the club are two different things and being good at one, doesn't mean you are good at the other. Look at the profile of specialists well performing clubs (Bayern, Liverpool, Chelsea etc) have in the roles we are so obviously weak in, then identify and recruit similar people in those roles.
 
The problem is that performance is justified by financial windfall. It takes time to erode the United visibility but it is happening. The longer United goes without a PL/CL title the more brand value erodes.

The gap between teams is closing so teams can only get away with being bigger for so long.
 
Locals not going to games. Us foreigners can only not purchase rhings
 
I think some weighty ex-player figures like Robson, Cantona, Neville, Rio, Evra etc need to form a real world coalition which leads the fans to then revolt in the real world and online.

Once they create and lead some unity, a series of actions can be discussed and implemented. These could include using streams instead of paying for satellite subscriptions, boycotting the stadium once fans are allowed back after covid19, mass boycott of sponsorship brands, spamming sponsor brands social media with protest messaging, public demonstrations outside the stadium and in cities and towns all around the world; many many things can be done.

But the key is to have some credible and fan trusted leaders to publicly front the campaign in the real world. Otherwise its just disorganised internet noise that cant be converted into real world pressure.

Once we are rid of them, we'd need to find a new buyer, so that opens up a new can of worms :lol:. Whomever buys the club, they should consider candidates like Neville or Van Der Saar or even Solkjaer should be considered as CEO or DoF type figures. ie: I think it's crucial that the clubs DNA and philosophy is only entrusted to people who truly know the clubs values.

As @diarm as articulated, OGS has sold in a new vision and already transformed a lot of things. But that strategy can never work properly unless its led by competent football people.
 
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1) We are purchased from the Glazers
2) The metrics of commercial success starts to decline.
 
Perhaps a change would have been made had we not reached top 4 last season. Somehow we've scrambled into the CL every other season and it has saved money from the sponsorship deals Woody has made. As long as he makes the owners money and keeps the brand name alive he's probably in their good books.

The Kardashians-Jenners are rich enough to buy United. We'd also get one of them Spurs/Sunderland shows that way. God knows JLingz needs a merch boost as well.
 
Change in mentality.

Need to kill off this manager is bigger than the club mentality and we'll be halfway there.
 
I just don't really see how the Glazers/Woodward don't get that success on the pitch will equate to more global popularity and profit, and likewise years of mediocrity will eventually erode away the more casual fans and that these fans will just start following another EPL team. United are popular and have the exposure they currently do because of how successful the club has been, take that away and then what? We can't live off past glories forever.
 
el3mel said:
As long as Glazers own the club then Woodward is her to stay, and as long as the club generates ton of money Glazers won't sell.

So nothing is going to change for the near future.
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The fans are the only variable that could technically impact strategic change at the top. Unfortunately we have a pretty divided fanbase as well.
 
I'd settle for a manager who doesn't come in and blow their first summer's transfer budget on ill-fitting parts for their philosophy. The club has spent enough money to make even Arsenal league winners
 
I'm not saying that they should because obviously these greats are old and all -

However, should serious legends like Sir Bobby, or Sir Alex etc talk out now giving us the rush we need?

Maybe not now but when Ole gets targeted for that inevitable sack whilst Woodward just brushing away his mistakes every 2 years pretending like no one noticed?

I feel like this Ole period will be a great period for something like this because whether you as a fan like or hate his football - he is a legend.

It's a great time to get back the green & yellow scarf as a club and atleast try move Woodward out of the club by reverting the pressure he puts on Ole back on to him. I doubt the Glazers will leave but I dont see why we cant make it hard enough for them to dump Woodward in the bin for causing unnecessary pressure & riots at the club.
 
hungrywing said:
Just theoretically speaking, two years of a coordinated massive boycott and sustained global awareness campaign should lower the price enough to give any prospective buyer the financial and publicity leverage. Couple notes:

1. You've put up with seven years of shit and fifteen years of being lied to and manipulated. You can grit your teeth and bear such a campaign for two years.
2. This is not 'not supporting the club and the players'. Beware the 'I will never not support the players' bullshit that the opportunists will employ as they try to hide behind the playing staff.
3. Snake-types will also try to float the idea that such a campaign will inadvertently cripple the club permanently. This also is bullshit. The fanbase controls the money spigot.

There are bound to still be supporters who think the Glazers - while not PSG/City/Chelsea wealthy - have considerable financial resources and can weather any storm. This is not the case.
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+1
 
I think our youth system is fantastic and the saving grace of the club.

But in the key areas - owners (Glazers), club management (Woodward/Judge) and football manager (Ole), we have been left behind by others. The rest such as scouting etc is probably not as bad as it seems and most of these things will fall in place once the key areas have the best filling them.
  • Our owners - Sadly they're going nowhere. We have to live with them.
  • Board/Woodward/Judge - They really have to go. Another window of incompetence. We need proper people who have pedigree and success in their catelogue rather than constant failures.
  • Manager - Again, people won't want to hear it but a decent manager is not enough for this club. We need one of the best. We need someone who can put together a forward thinking, tactically well realised, excellently drilled football that fits within this generation, not someone who gets by and "isn't really a system guy".

I can only hope for the last two being sorted as like I said, Glazers are here to stay.
 
Glazers are going nowhere so that's a non starter , last I heard we have rehauled our scouting department ,our youth academy seem to be moving in right direction as well and contrary to popular perception we aren't exactly averse to spending money either so ideally we need someone to bring everything together maybe a DOf like figure with clear approach in the market targeting right players and manager to bring their footballing vision to fruition.

Glazers finally realising that they aren't getting best bang for their buck should be enough to get these changes done nothing radical is actually needed.
 
Missing out on CL two years in a row and losing that Adidas money would probably convince the Glazers that Woodward has a shit eye for managers and Judge is shit at getting the right players in.
 
Will read through all these later will be interesting

Also What do we think it will take the fans to "turn"

Obviously harder now as no fans in the ground but there was supposed to be that game last season where a walk out was planned and that never materialised. What do we think it would take to override their loyalty to the club, especially the longer term supporters? As this is potentially one of the few ways to hit them financially which is a potential trigger to do things

Very interesting suggestion above about several ex important United players leading something as that would be more likely to make people engage rather than Internet "randoms." The likes of Scholes and Evra for example as when they've been pundits you can tell they aren't happy with things but can't do/ say too much due to their punditry work.
 
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As long as these Glazers leeches are owning the club nothing will change. Maybe the incompetent twat Woodward gets replaced with another moron of the same ilk changing absolutely nothing for the fans. Depressing but that's the sad truth.
 
I don't think boycotting match days, or having banners etc will make a lot of difference to the owners. It may make Ed squirm a bit in his seat, but he probably has a thick skin.
It appears as though the owners are only interested in reaching the CL, where they can make more money, and seem very reluctant (via Woodward and Judge) to splash out on anymore signings. It also appears that the club are putting a lot of emphasis on youth players, both from UK and abroad. The club would save a lot of cash if any of these players make it to the first team squad, therefore the owners would not have had to purchase any players on a huge fee and salary, and no doubt the salary for 'homegrown' players would be less than purchasing a 'superstar', so I can see why the club and owners would do that.
Because the owners are only interested in making money, then that is where the 'protests' should be aimed. We currently have 23 companies who are official sponsors of Manchester United, the list can be found on the club website. We should be boycotting these companies in my opinion, and also letting them know why we are boycotting them. I'm sure that the millions of United fans throughout the world could make a difference.
I have supported this club since the early 60's, and seen Manchester United struggle at times, but the only way we can get back to competing at the highest level is to get owners, CEO's and a board that is fully focused on the football club, not the money it can generate for their own pockets. I would stick with Ole for now, I think he's done a fantastic job so far, and would love to keep him on board at least until we get new owners. I don't know if he will become a great manager in time, he's hamstrung to some extent at the moment, but we need some form of stability within the club, and he seems to be to he only stable thing there. If he turns out to be not a great manager/coach, then perhaps he could stay at the club as the DOF, he certainly has the club at heart.
For my part, I refuse to eat Cadburys chocolate, stay at a Marriott's hotel, use DHL, buy Adidas equipment, Casillero Del Diablo wine (I don't drink wine, but my wife does,) or Chivas products, all official sponsors of United.
Sorry for rambling on so long.
 
Covid will see the club produce significant ongoing losses. If there isn't a big bailout from the government then the Glazers will possibly sell rather than dip into their own pockets. However I don't want it to just be the case that they put the club on the market. I don't want some bone-saw wielding government offshoot buying the club. We should target potential wealthy philanthropic owners and try to campaign to get them to buy out the Glazers.

People that have made serious money and are still decent people are quite rare so we as a club / fan groups need to identify them and campaign to get them to take-over.

I don't want to be the propaganda arm of a backwards, oil dependant oligarch. I don't want the club to avoid one horror show, only to get a new one ( look at Newcastle and Mike Ashley etc).

Respectful protest such as boycotting expenditure at the ground (if crowds are allowed back in) and in the stores would cripple the Glazers cash flow and get them moving quicker than you would imagine, particularly if covid strikes harder in the USA.
 
I think a real drop in football terms will prompt action. For example

Several seasons finishing 5th-8th with some of the worst football in the league.

Huge money signings being total flops

Getting absolutely tonked by a league 2 side in a cup

A global decline in the clubs standing and credibility

Opening a new campaign with a humiliating defeat against a squad worth a fraction of ours without getting a proper shot on target other than our goal.

Oh wait. My bad. No high level changes are going to happen while the glazers are happy with the finances
 
United Hobbit said:
We are almost all seeing the problems at the club go a lot higher than Ole (we will leave whether he is out of his depth for the other threads)

However what do we think would cause changes above him?

-The owners: what would make them sell?
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That's a hard one. Although the club is crippled with debt, it's the club's debt. The Glazers are scot free and can just withdraw their yearly £20-25m special dividend until perpetuity, so there is no need for them to sell. It's free money, after all. I guess it would take a significant downturn in the club's finances to the point where they can't just actually get free money anymore, or for some probably sovereign wealth fund to meet their absurdly over-inflated valuation of the club for them to sell.

The former is looking a lot more likely than the latter tbh, and it's not THAT likely.

-Woodward: is there anyway he would be removed/ removed solely to the corporate side while the current owners are here? If so what would be the tipping point? I'm perfectly fine with him staying and working solely on bringing in sponsorship etc but he isnt good at the football side of it. When will some accountability be held? Are the repeated failures in the transfer market due to him/ negotiators or do we actually have no money?
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I don't think Woodward will ever quit his position. According to repeated press reports he's obsessed with becoming United's "saviour", the person who uses his banker experience and financial know-how to run rings around football people and lift United to the top. If the club's finances take a steep dive to the point where it starts to hurt the Glazers (instead of just the club) he might get sacked, but I don't think that's hugely likely. There's lots of places to cut finances from at the club before the Glazers' payouts are affected, and there will still continue to be a lot of value in the United brand even if the club only keeps being a perennial Champions League hopeful.

-This fabled director of football we supposedly keep bringing in- what will it take for us to finally get one?
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A change of ownership. Woodward won't give up power, the Glazers won't make him.

-Scouting- does this need an overhaul? Why aren't we finding these diamonds in the rough types such as an Andy Robertson from Hull type who now looks an absolute steal.
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Scouting was overhauled, and is apparently quite decent now. A lot of extremely good players, like de Jong, Haverts and others were supposedly recommended years ago to United by their scouts, but those scouting reports were duly ignored. The best scouting in the world won't do you any good if you have incompetent leadership -- which United have in spades.

-when will it get to a point where the club stops selling itself? When will Ed and Co no longer just be able to sell Manchester United based on the name? When do we caese becoming a big club? Obviously not as big but the likes of Sunderland used to be a big club...
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I think Manchester United will be able to coast on reputation and name alone for many, many years, barring some kind of completely unrealistic change in fortunes like the club somehow getting relegated.
 
monosierra said:
1) We are purchased from the Glazers
2) The metrics of commercial success starts to decline.
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I agree, the Glazers have built the worth of the asset from £0.8B (when they bought the club) to now around about £3.1B (according to Forbes). At least two of the Glazer 'clan' have washed their hands of the club and its only the three stalwarts who retain both a commercial and a personal interest in the club.

Who knows where professional football will finish up after Covid, but Utd's owners have other concerns; the ability to attract elite players, and their willingness to pay the asking price. The OT ground is beginning to 'creak' as a top class sporting venue, its position is vulnerable, with it being squeezed in between a railway line a on one side and a canal on the other, expansion on the present site would be costly and will not solve major access problems. Moving to another site would be even more costly and they would loose the 'theatre of dreams' title which is highly valued by fans and sponsors alike.

There are three things; the lack of willingness to invest in elite players, the need to redevelop OT from the ground up is impossible on the current site if a state of the art venue, including access and egress issue being sorted is required, and moving to another site loses the magic of the 'theatre of dreams' and threatens future income streams.

When these thing coincide, probably after the effects of Covid are clearly known, then the Glazers will sell, but who will buy?
 
I'd say a massive fall to mediocrity and a mid table finish 2 or 3 seasons in a row. No CL football and a massive fall in revenue. That is not going to happen because this group of players are more than capable of winning half of their games at least and finishing around 65 to 68 points which seems enough for top 4 these days.
 
Short term pain for long term gain:
Relegation or 2/3 years around the lower half of the table. PL and commercial income are still high enough for the club to stay profitable without CL/EL money. And there will be a new PL-TV deal soon that might increase the income even more.
 
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