What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

win/loss % are irrelevant right now. Amorim was hired to implement a specific style of play, which is hard because he joins mid season, without a preseason or his preferred signings. I admire his commitment to his philosophy rather than chasing short term results like ten Hag by abandoning his Ajax style. Although results haven’t been great yet, Amorim tactical identity is clearly taking shape. do you think Pep success at City was just managerial genius. no, it required a complete overhaul in one window by replacing entire defensive players (Hart, Clichy, Kolarov, Sagna, Zabaleta) with £150m worth of new goal keeper and fullbacks (Bravo, Mendy, Walker, Danilo). He even have the luxury to upgrade on Bravo after once season and spend £39m on Ederson. City gave Pep everything he needed to build his ideal squad. once you assemble a team of world class players in every position, you only need the occasional top signings. thats why city spending has been relatively modest in recent years. but, when city struggling slightly this season, Pep reverted to his usual solution. spending big to address weaknesses. just look at how much they spent in this January transfer window.

Utd rebuild demands similar resources and patience. we must clear out half the squad but unlike City we lack the financial freedom to do it quickly. Amorim Sporting team success took 2 seasons so why do you expect instant PL results.

So tell me are you seriously advocating to sack Amorim after six months?
Absolutely if he’s got 12 points from the first 12 EPL matches next season, and I will be joined by the majority of United fans who will agree with me, you can’t manage Man United to a team in the bottom 4/5 of the EPL and keep your job?

Let me be clear here he would have had 27 PL matches by the end of the season and I doubt he will have 1 point per game with the club finishing on 42 points, that’s untenable however giving the mess the club is in, he deserves £200-250m in the summer, get a pre season abd start doing what a man United manager should be doing, wining PL matches and not losing 7/8 at Old Trafford and 50% of the matches he manages, it’s simply untenable.

If you believe that SJR will keep him if he has 12 points from the first 10-12 PL matches after spending £250m on his new system and we have no European football to play next season, your going to be in for a massive shock! He got rid of Dan Ashworth for much less!

Let me be clear here I like Ruben, want him to do well but as a season ticket holder, I can’t face another season of this Gutless drab Football with an incredibly boring and defensive style of football set up in 5221 system not 3421.

He has to change his style and tactics and if he doesn’t he’ll be sacked and no one will lose any sleep over a coach who wins 1 in 4 in the EPL!
 
Give it a break, mate. We know you are skeptical of him and we all know, that there won't be an answer to your question that will satisfy you or change your mind. The whole guessing what is needed or not is borderline crazy since we kind of don't know who will be here next season and who is not. Who is on sell-list and whos not. What will the system finally look like that Amorim has in mind, will it be as close to Sporting conceptually or will it be different. The team certainly lacks in a few key areas and those will be adressed. And most of them aren't 3-4-3 or Amorim specific at all.
I don’t know about you pal but being in 15th in EPL and potentially finishing 17th has not resonated with some fans who have not let their standards drop significantly, Roy Keane is right modern football is becoming insufferable!
 
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I don’t know about you pal but being in 15th in EPL and potentially finishing 17th has not resonated with some fans who have let their standards drop significantly, Roy Keane is right modern football is becoming insufferable!
Ah, come on, whether you give it a break or not is surely not changing our league position, is it? :lol:
And I am not at all saying criticism is out of place but I think, most of us know that where we are isn't where we want to be and that we have to improve going forward. But as said, there is no need to dig out the 70th bad stat fractal to drum at a door that stands wide open.

And your overall premise doesn't make sense to me - none of the players we are linked with right now are some sort of special exotic thing that only Amorim could have any use for. I'd see your point if we are about to pull the trigger to force Hakimi and Davies Di Marco for a combined 160 millions to finally get the wingbacks in order but we aren't at all. And even if, both of them have done great things at Fullback as well iirc.
 
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Ah, come on, whether you give it a break or not is surely not changing our league position, is it? :lol:
And I am not at all saying criticism is out of place but I think, most of us know that where we are isn't where we want to be and that we have to improve going forward. But as said, there is no need to dig out the 70th bad stat fractal to drum at a door that stands wide open.

And your overall premise doesn't make sense to me - none of the players we are linked with right now are some sort of special exotic thing that only Amorim could have any use for. I'd see your point if we are about to pull the trigger to force Hakimi and Davies Di Marco for a combined 160 millions to finally get the wingbacks in order but we aren't at all. And even if, both of them have done great things at Fullback as well iirc.
The irony of this is AWB and Elanga would suit Amorim System perfectly but we gave them away for £15m each and both would have absolutely thrived under Amorim system.


I don’t blame RA solely although he’s made many mistakes and that’s ok if we can see improvement game on game, even every 5 or 10 PL Games, I just don’t see it right now but I will give him the benefit of the doubt because the clowns previously to INEOS who ran our transfer activity should be blacklisted from ever working in professional football again!

Buying two great wing backs won’t instantly transform this team, it’s badly coached and does not attack and defend cohesively as an 11 player unit, this was a hall mark of Amorim Sporting team and he’s mentioned the distances between defenders, midfield and attackers many times, if he understands the problem why can’t he fix it?

We saw the best of this system against Arsenal and Liverpool away but very little since the distances are all wrong and opposing teams simply do not fear us so they push their full backs right up the pitch making our wing back revert to deep full backs in a 5221 system. The narrow 4 man box midfield is so easy to play round, this is causing all the issues. Wolves play 3421 and just won 6 PL matches on the trot, let that sink in, Ruben needed 22 PL matches to get the same 6 wins and can’t even get a back to back PL wins, that is is hugely concerning and if it doesn’t improve next season he’ll be gone.

He should be trying to get some momentum in the last 5 PL matches so he’s under less pressure next season!

Not wining the Europa League might be a blessing as there’s no 2 games a week excuse then!
 
Cunha - 62m
Delap - 30m
Ederson - 45m
Cherki - 25m
Lammens - 20m

Total - 182m
Delap
Cunha Cherki
Dorgu Ederson Bruno Amad
Yoro De Ligt Mazraoui
Lammens​
 
Could we get Delap and Mateta maybe?

Mateta’s Palace contract has one year left and he turns 28 in June. He’d bring some experience to offset Delap’s inexperience.
 
The irony of this is AWB and Elanga would suit Amorim System perfectly but we gave them away for £15m each and both would have absolutely thrived under Amorim system.
Not sure if that is true. I guess you mean AWB as one of the wide CBs but he wasn't really good positionally so I don't think, he would have thrived. Elanga as a WB you mean? Meh, you might be right but I don't think thats a given at all.
I don’t blame RA solely although he’s made many mistakes and that’s ok if we can see improvement game on game, even every 5 or 10 PL Games, I just don’t see it right now but I will give him the benefit of the doubt because the clowns previously to INEOS who ran our transfer activity should be blacklisted from ever working in professional football again!

Buying two great wing backs won’t instantly transform this team, it’s badly coached and does not attack and defend cohesively as an 11 player unit, this was a hall mark of Amorim Sporting team and he’s mentioned the distances between defenders, midfield and attackers many times, if he understands the problem why can’t he fix it?
Maybe because he doesn't have the right players. Everything you say applied to ETH as well. And to a degree, even Ole. We haven't been a well playing functional team for ages, our recruitment is bad and now we are at a place, where apart from CB, we have no real senior player left for the attack, only inexperienced younglings. ETHs could have done with a powerful midfielder like Ederson. Ole could have done with more attacking fullbacks. Thats not too special if you ask me but if we don't have those players, then the only way to play would be to sit deep and go for counter. And thats what we do against bigger teams and it kind of works. Same as it did for ETHs first season. Same as it did for Ole. But that can't be the way forward. And since the season is fecked anyways, Amorim might as well use it to implement new things. Additionally, same as ETH he did suffer a few crucial losses, Amad was in Form, Martinez was slightly on the up, and I am sure Amorim had hoped that there would be a way to get Rashford and Antony to do just something. I personally don't get the outcry after every bad result, standards yadda yadda, I get it but where were the standards when we played like shit yet won for some moment of one of our players? It was very very clear back then that we weren't on the up anymore and that the abyss came closer and closer. But apparently, back then we only needed one or two shrewed additions because so many of our players were deemed worldclass. By us...
We saw the best of this system against Arsenal and Liverpool away but very little since the distances are all wrong and opposing teams simply do not fear us so they push their full backs right up the pitch making our wing back revert to deep full backs in a 5221 system. The narrow 4 man box midfield is so easy to play round, this is causing all the issues. Wolves play 3421 and just won 6 PL matches on the trot, let that sink in, Ruben needed 22 PL matches to get the same 6 wins and can’t even get a back to back PL wins, that is is hugely concerning and if it doesn’t improve next season he’ll be gone.
See above. As said, we do better against teams that try to dominate us possession wise because then we can sit back and keep it compact. Thats why I'd say we have better chances to go up against a top team than against some inform smaller side who will just hit our weak points as hard as they can. As Newcastle for example did. If you want to play deep and compact, thats fine, I guess, we wouldn't lose so much but the football wouldn't get any better at all.
He should be trying to get some momentum in the last 5 PL matches so he’s under less pressure next season!
Sounds awesome, but what do you expect him to do?!
Not wining the Europa League might be a blessing as there’s no 2 games a week excuse then!
It might, but at the same time, I guess it could be difficult to get the last percent of motivation going. But I don't think that matters and I am fine with it having no meaning as long as people at the club really work on making the summer a success. Not just on the transfermarket but also on the training pitch. Rest assured, if stuff doesn't improve, Ruben will be gone at some point
 
See, as if we have different definitions of the term "spine", right? If you see it this way, thats fine. I see it differently and to prevent misunderstandings, I initially asked you to try to explain it.


As far as I know, it wasn't always the CCB to push out, all of Amorims CBs at Sporting were very good on the ball and therefor creating a capable unit with no obvious lever for the opposition to focus on. And De Ligt and Maguire were being hailed for their ball playing ability in the past, I am the last one to defend Maguire here, but if those two seem not good enough on the ball, then probably a different factor that goes into making the system work, is burning rather than their technical level. This is generally pretty good from my point of view, we can talk athleticism and size maybe but compared to other areas of the team, we are much closer to an average level there than we are for example in midfield or on the wings, where I think our options are not suited for anything above 10th place.

I agree, having capable CBs is very important to what I understood Amorims ideas are. And my feeling is, we will bring in another CB. We shouldn't have extended Maguire and brought in a player who suits the system better than he does. But since we did extend him, theres no point of adding another player to the roaster since "Maguire isn't it" and now we won't use him while paying him 200k per week.
I am not against adding to CB but I see way more urgent matters further up the field to spend a lot on a CB, who isn't going to revolutionize our buildup single handedly as it lacks multiple factors, not all being able to rectified by simply throwing money at it.

Lets see how things will turn out. I really struggle to see the strategy behind the players we are linked with lately. All good players but I really struggle to predict, how the squad will look like next season.


Have you kept in touch with our latest overall performances and results though? For all of Brunos doings (and I agree, he prefer the more caring for the ball, less distracted version of him as well) but the team overall hasn't set the world alight at all. We look formidable when being able to play from a compact starting point and attacking the space and with a bit of luck, we are able to look reasonably competent when the opponent is forfeiting the ball mostly and doesn't engange but everything in between isn't great. I personally don't think Bruno playing as CM is a testiment of "he is the best among a few good options" but rather "the other options are so poor, to get by we need to sacrifice our only AM to CM to maintain at least a half-decent level of build up". No doubt, if he could beat a man playing at 10, that would be even better but at the same time, not being good at this isn't great when playing in the middle of the park as well.
I am absolutely aware of how we're playing. I just think 2 dangerous, fast 10s will solve a lot of our problems.

At the moment teams are happy to press us high leaving 4 against 3 or even 3 against 3, knowing that our attackers can't hurt them. Most of that will end with players like Cunha and Amad to worry about.

If we get Cunha and keep Amad fit our games are going to look very different. Teams will spend most of the time sitting deep. If they do press it will be with fewer players knowing what's behind them. That'll make it easier to beat any press.

With Amad, Cunha and Bruno we will find it much easier to break deep blocks.

Basically with a big upgrade in both 10 positions we will make it easier for every player on the team and the team will be well on the way back up the league.
 
Could we get Delap and Mateta maybe?

Mateta’s Palace contract has one year left and he turns 28 in June. He’d bring some experience to offset Delap’s inexperience.
I really wish the club would consider that, so given a choice of those two strikers or Delap and a DM/CM hybrid which option are you choosing?
 
I know it's unlikely to come to anything, but I'd love as to at least ask Kevin du Bruyne if he'd like to stay in Manchester...
 
GK
Maz--MDL--Yoro
Amad--Ugarte--CM--LWB
Bruno--Cunha
Delap​

Think this is our first team next season, but we still need a GK, CM and LWB after Cunha+Delap.

Both the CM and LWB need to be very progressive, and very comfortable on the ball, so they can beat the press.
 
I am absolutely aware of how we're playing. I just think 2 dangerous, fast 10s will solve a lot of our problems.

At the moment teams are happy to press us high leaving 4 against 3 or even 3 against 3, knowing that our attackers can't hurt them. Most of that will end with players like Cunha and Amad to worry about.

If we get Cunha and keep Amad fit our games are going to look very different. Teams will spend most of the time sitting deep. If they do press it will be with fewer players knowing what's behind them. That'll make it easier to beat any press.

With Amad, Cunha and Bruno we will find it much easier to break deep blocks.

Basically with a big upgrade in both 10 positions we will make it easier for every player on the team and the team will be well on the way back up the league.
Well, I'll happily admit that I would love to have your optimism. But I think, some of the things you mention here a little to hopeful. Teams aren't going to start being scard only because we have Amad, the 1,60 guy in his 2nd year back on the pitch and Cunha who had a very good season but certainly nothing that is miraculous. It will help, no doubt about that but even if more teams will set up deeper against us, we still have to deal with our weakness in the middle of the park. Thats not going to go away because of simply upgrading the 10s.
 
Well, I'll happily admit that I would love to have your optimism. But I think, some of the things you mention here a little to hopeful. Teams aren't going to start being scard only because we have Amad, the 1,60 guy in his 2nd year back on the pitch and Cunha who had a very good season but certainly nothing that is miraculous. It will help, no doubt about that but even if more teams will set up deeper against us, we still have to deal with our weakness in the middle of the park. Thats not going to go away because of simply upgrading the 10s.
Each additional superior player lightens the load for his teammates
 
I know it's unlikely to come to anything, but I'd love as to at least ask Kevin du Bruyne if he'd like to stay in Manchester...
Yeah don't think there was anything in Villa link either, he definitely wouldn't consider us after being at City
 
GK
Maz--MDL--Yoro
Amad--Ugarte--CM--LWB
Bruno--Cunha
Delap​

Think this is our first team next season, but we still need a GK, CM and LWB after Cunha+Delap.

Both the CM and LWB need to be very progressive, and very comfortable on the ball, so they can beat the press.

Not a massive success for our new recruitment team if we need to replace Dorgu within 6 months.
 
Yeah don't think there was anything in Villa link either, he definitely wouldn't consider us after being at City
you never quite know these things - often hear of players who have retired revealing who they supported as a kid. I mean, I had no idea Michael Owen was an everton fan (and during his glory days, never occurred to me that he'd join United.) But sadly, agree this one is very unlikely.

My guess is he'll go to MLS - unless he's got anti-Trump comments on hsi fan, in which case he'll be playing in El Salvador!
 
you never quite know these things - often hear of players who have retired revealing who they supported as a kid. I mean, I had no idea Michael Owen was an everton fan (and during his glory days, never occurred to me that he'd join United.) But sadly, agree this one is very unlikely.

My guess is he'll go to MLS - unless he's got anti-Trump comments on hsi fan, in which case he'll be playing in El Salvador!
Yeah I would say MLS is nailed on IF he leaves
 
Our recruitment is so bad. Dorgu is another LWB who offer nothing only physical but fail as everything else including ball controlling, passing, vision and IQ.
Yoro is another hype youngsters that newspaper lied that Real Madrid chased to sign him. He failed most of duel and lack of awareness on what's going around him.
He even can't impress me more than Heaven and Fredricson.
 
A whole new set of attacking players. We need an r10 along with the likes of Delap and Cunha, especially with the possible sale of Garnacho.

Any of Mbeumo, Cherki, Simons or Semenyo would do. Mbeumo would be ideal for me. You get a front three of Cunha-Delap-Mbeumo with Bruno feeding them from deep and Amad out wide and I don’t see us lacking goals again
 
Not a massive success for our new recruitment team if we need to replace Dorgu within 6 months.
The only slight defence you could give them is we've decided to ship out Malacia, and Shaw has rendered himself a complete non-entity, so we effectively have zero left backs. So we needed 2 left backs at some point anyway.

But yes it's not a good signing.
 
A whole new set of attacking players. We need an r10 along with the likes of Delap and Cunha, especially with the possible sale of Garnacho.

Any of Mbeumo, Cherki, Simons or Semenyo would do. Mbeumo would be ideal for me. You get a front three of Cunha-Delap-Mbeumo with Bruno feeding them from deep and Amad out wide and I don’t see us lacking goals again
We aren't buying Cunha and Eze/Semenyo, sorry
 
Outs (+170m)

Sancho 25m
Rashford 30m
Antony 20m
Lindlof 0m
Eriksen 0m
Casemiro 15m
Garnacho 50m
Onana 20m
Bayindir 5m
Malacia 5m
Mount (Loan)
Hojlund (Loan)

Ins (-250m)

Delap 30m
J.David 0m
Cunha 60m
Guler or Baena 40m
Wharton 70m
Joan Garcia 20m (GK at Espanyol)
Luis Henrique 30m (WB at Marseille)


Squad

Garcia

Vitek
Heaton/Youth

Yoro
De Ligt
Mazraoui
Martinez
Maguire
Heaven
Shaw

Dalot
Dorgu
Amass
Henrique

Ugarte
Mainoo
Wharton
Bruno
Kone

Amad
Cunha
Guler/Baena

Zirkzee

Delap
David

Chido
 
In:
Gyokeres (If he's available we have to go for him)
Delap
Cunha/Cherki
Ederson
Frimpong
Garcia

Out:
Pretty much every attacker bar Amad
Dalot
Onana
 
If we win the EL:
Gyokeres
Cunha
GK to replace or compete for no.1 with Onana

If we don't win the EL:
Delap
Cunha
GK to replace or compete for no.1 with Onana

I don't see much else being done.

GK: New GK, Onana, 3rd choice

RCB: Yoro, Mazraoui
CB: De Ligt, Maguire
LCB: Martinez, Shaw, Heaven

RWB: Dalot, (Mazraoui), Amad
LWB: Dorgu, Leon, (Shaw)

CM: Fernandes, Mainoo, Casemiro, Ugarte, Collyer
AM: Cunha, Amad, Garnacho, Mount, (Zirkzee)

CF: Gyokeres, Zirkzee

It's not ideal but I think this squad can get European football and we can build from there.
 
The irony of this is AWB and Elanga would suit Amorim System perfectly but we gave them away for £15m each and both would have absolutely thrived under Amorim system.


I don’t blame RA solely although he’s made many mistakes and that’s ok if we can see improvement game on game, even every 5 or 10 PL Games, I just don’t see it right now but I will give him the benefit of the doubt because the clowns previously to INEOS who ran our transfer activity should be blacklisted from ever working in professional football again!

Buying two great wing backs won’t instantly transform this team, it’s badly coached and does not attack and defend cohesively as an 11 player unit, this was a hall mark of Amorim Sporting team and he’s mentioned the distances between defenders, midfield and attackers many times, if he understands the problem why can’t he fix it?

We saw the best of this system against Arsenal and Liverpool away but very little since the distances are all wrong and opposing teams simply do not fear us so they push their full backs right up the pitch making our wing back revert to deep full backs in a 5221 system. The narrow 4 man box midfield is so easy to play round, this is causing all the issues. Wolves play 3421 and just won 6 PL matches on the trot, let that sink in, Ruben needed 22 PL matches to get the same 6 wins and can’t even get a back to back PL wins, that is is hugely concerning and if it doesn’t improve next season he’ll be gone.

He should be trying to get some momentum in the last 5 PL matches so he’s under less pressure next season!

Not wining the Europa League might be a blessing as there’s no 2 games a week excuse then!
Please enlighten me how AWB fits into Amorim's system? He is no wing back he can't cross or create.

Likewise Elanga when he was given plenty of opportunities by Ole and Rangnick and he was poor. Over time away from the pressures of utd he has developed well but I still don't see him in an Amorim team...
 
Please enlighten me how AWB fits into Amorim's system? He is no wing back he can't cross or create.

Likewise Elanga when he was given plenty of opportunities by Ole and Rangnick and he was poor. Over time away from the pressures of utd he has developed well but I still don't see him in an Amorim team...
AWB plays RCB or RWB, and allows the club to be more defensively sound, he has the same goal involvements in the EPL than Mazroui and Dalot combined with 4 and double the goals they have.

Elanga would be absolutely perfect as a RWB or LWB and he’s made for Amorim system, he’s even played that position for Forrest or as wide 10 in the same 3421 system.