What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

Andycoleno9 said:
Manager, right back, one leader defender (to play with Lindelof or Bailly), defensive midfielder, top class right winger, backup left winger.
We are basically nearly at same place when we were 2 years ago.
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Not true. We’ve made big progress. People are running away with their expectations. We are second in the table which is drumming up over excitement.

we don’t need to replace the RB, he’s making progress and we have a home grown competition in Laird or bring back Dalot for a season to compete.

we do need to look at a new CB. Tuanzebe, Jones and Bailly are all injury prone, Rojo has left. We will need to spend money here and ship at least 1 out. It shouldn’t cost too much, milenkovic or konate are both available for reasonable fees

left full back is sorted.

midfield will depend on whether Pogba is staying or going. Matic needs replaced but depending on how Garner does on loan he may be ready for first team minutes next season.

forwards is an interesting one, we have 3 lads yet to reach their peak, backed up by a world class but aging Cavani. However none of them are going to guarantee 25 goals a season. Depending on budget we may have to trade up on Martial but it could also be delayed for another year

right wing I don’t think we need to spend more money on. We’ve bought Diallo and he’s impressing everyone in training and looks a class above u23 level. I suspect he will be phased in during the remainder of this season and will be a first team player next season.

goalkeeper is the one that might be most urgent. DDG is just not improving and likely to regress with age as his reflexes slow down. He doesn’t bring anything else to the role. He’a not dominant like schmeichel was, or a talker and organizer like VDS was or even good on the ball like Barthez was. He will need replaced either this summer or next. I’d be tempted to try for the Milan keeper, he’s out of contract this summer. If that doesn’t work, promote Henderson and keep Romero as number 2 again.

The one person I’d go all out for is grealish this summer. The cost could be offset by selling the likes of lingard, Jones, Andreas P abs releasing salary by giving frees to mata and matic.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
But, with our transfer policy that could very well happen. Pogba will not stay and fight for top 4. We can like it or not, we can say that he is this and that but if he will have option to go in Madrid, Juve or PSG, he will go there. So we will need new midfielder. "Young and hungry who will play for the badge" and shit like that.
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You don’t replace a world class player with a midtable player. Would City replace De Bruyne with Ward-Prowse? Of course not. If we want to be champions we have to move like champions.
 
Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
You don’t replace a world class player with a midtable player. Would City replace De Bruyne with Ward-Prowse? Of course not. If we want to be champions we have to move like champions.
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World class players are not playing for the badge and are not hungry enough.....apparently
 
In answer to the thread title.

Van Der Sar

Vidic

Evra
 
Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
You don’t replace a world class player with a midtable player. Would City replace De Bruyne with Ward-Prowse? Of course not. If we want to be champions we have to move like champions.
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More delusion, where is Ward Prowse mentioned as Pogba replacement? World class, comparing him to De Bruyne? Ffs :lol:
To be world class or be in the same breath as De Bruyne, you don't play in patches.
 
I genuinely think we are one or two great players from winning the league.

The most pressing positions imo are RW and CB. If we can get Sancho in plus a pacey centre back to make up for Maguire's faults, then we will be in business.

Ideally we'd need to get a centre mid, back up RB and striker in too, but you can't do all of that in one window.
 
golden_blunder said:
Not true. We’ve made big progress. People are running away with their expectations. We are second in the table which is drumming up over excitement.

we don’t need to replace the RB, he’s making progress and we have a home grown competition in Laird or bring back Dalot for a season to compete.

we do need to look at a new CB. Tuanzebe, Jones and Bailly are all injury prone, Rojo has left. We will need to spend money here and ship at least 1 out. It shouldn’t cost too much, milenkovic or konate are both available for reasonable fees

left full back is sorted.

midfield will depend on whether Pogba is staying or going. Matic needs replaced but depending on how Garner does on loan he may be ready for first team minutes next season.

forwards is an interesting one, we have 3 lads yet to reach their peak, backed up by a world class but aging Cavani. However none of them are going to guarantee 25 goals a season. Depending on budget we may have to trade up on Martial but it could also be delayed for another year

right wing I don’t think we need to spend more money on. We’ve bought Diallo and he’s impressing everyone in training and looks a class above u23 level. I suspect he will be phased in during the remainder of this season and will be a first team player next season.

goalkeeper is the one that might be most urgent. DDG is just not improving and likely to regress with age as his reflexes slow down. He doesn’t bring anything else to the role. He’a not dominant like schmeichel was, or a talker and organizer like VDS was or even good on the ball like Barthez was. He will need replaced either this summer or next. I’d be tempted to try for the Milan keeper, he’s out of contract this summer. If that doesn’t work, promote Henderson and keep Romero as number 2 again.

The one person I’d go all out for is grealish this summer. The cost could be offset by selling the likes of lingard, Jones, Andreas P abs releasing salary by giving frees to mata and matic.
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Depends about what we are talking here. Pool and City have top managers. City have also excellent squad and huge budget. Plus City is a maschine.
So if our goal is title challenge then all what i said stands. You can't win title with average manager on the bench and players with huge flaws like Maguire, AWB or MCT starting the games and players like Tuanzebe and James coming from the bench.

If our goal is to secure top 4 every season, playing solid football and maybe win some cup then i agree with you. This squad and manager are good enough for that and there is no need for buying anyone including rw (i am curious too what Diallo can do).
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Depends about what we are talking here. Pool and City have top managers. City have also excellent squad and huge budget. Plus City is a maschine.
So if our goal is title challenge then all what i said stands. You can't win title with average manager on the bench and players with huge flaws like Maguire, AWB or MCT starting the games and players like Tuanzebe and James coming from the bench.

If our goal is to secure top 4 every season, playing solid football and maybe win some cup then i agree with you. This squad and manager are good enough for that and there is no need for buying anyone including rw (i am curious too what Diallo can do).
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We don’t have the cash to slash out on 3-4 big purchases. The aim is to build slowly. The players are all young and will in my opinion win the league within the next 3 seasons
 
golden_blunder said:
Right,

Pickup donnarumma on free (agent ibra will set it up)
Buy Grealish. Offer tuanzabe, they love him + 60m
But Milenkovic for 20m (konate would be first choice IF his clause is active for 40m)
Bring Dalot back to cover for AWB
Sell Lingard 20m, Jones 5m, James 18m, Williams 10m, Chong 5m, Andreas P 5m, loan out DeGea and pay 50% of his wages

Take lindelof to a field and shoot him before turning him into glue, which will be the most disappointing glue you can buy, won’t stick sometimes when you need it to

net spend 13m, so it could be increased a bit to get konate instead or a few extra to secure grealish

do a deal for Haaland to join following summer, offset by selling Martial
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Raiola client - he will be anything but free
 
golden_blunder said:
Right,

Pickup donnarumma on free (agent ibra will set it up)
Buy Grealish. Offer tuanzabe, they love him + 60m
But Milenkovic for 20m (konate would be first choice IF his clause is active for 40m)
Bring Dalot back to cover for AWB
Sell Lingard 20m, Jones 5m, James 18m, Williams 10m, Chong 5m, Andreas P 5m, loan out DeGea and pay 50% of his wages

Take lindelof to a field and shoot him before turning him into glue, which will be the most disappointing glue you can buy, won’t stick sometimes when you need it to

net spend 13m, so it could be increased a bit to get konate instead or a few extra to secure grealish

do a deal for Haaland to join following summer, offset by selling Martial
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Raiola client. No chance he comes here.
 
These lists always get long after a bad result, last night our attack looked to be showing signs of gelling and we still haven't blooded Van de Beek in or integrated Diallo and Hannibal, while Martial isn't a write-off imo. I'm fully on the Grealish train now but unless he has a buyout clause we don't know about I think prying him from Villa is going to be near impossible when we have bigger issues.

I also get many are obssessed with Haaland but that 2022 buyout clause is there for a reason, we'd need to pay at least €120M to get him this summer and in the current climate that's not going to happen, plus I think Cavani has proven myself and many others wrong, I felt his fitness and age would be a big issue in the PL but he looks like he has another season in him before we get to the 2022 Haaland auction.

I hate that we've made Maguire such an untouchable player in this team but it is what it is, for me Kounde has the attributes to go with him as I'm not a fan of buying another giant to go next to him. Kounde has vital agility as well as pace, the traits required to offset Maguire's weaknesses, at least the physical ones, his mental softness is why he shouldn't be Captain.

Pogba will go and Juve or Real Madrid are the most likely destinations so get Bentancur or Valverde respectively as part of the deal and then get the fanboys their Declan DM signing.
 
rcoobc said:
In answer to the thread title.

Van Der Sar

Vidic

Evra
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I'm just thankful, I was old enough to enjoy watching these guys week in week out for years. It's hard for young United fans in the last 8 years, just when they start to understand football.
 
The Glazers’ Buccaneers just won the Superbowl, they went on a spending spree to get the players to win the trophy... will they eventually do it for this club?
 
reddevilz007 said:
The Glazers’ Buccaneers just won the Superbowl, they went on a spending spree to get the players to win the trophy... will they eventually do it for this club?
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Not in a million years and especially when we need CB, RB (backup) & CDM in the defensive area alone, then there is the small matter of a Pogba replacement and maybe even a GK if Henderson isn't up to it either.
 
golden_blunder said:
Not true. We’ve made big progress. People are running away with their expectations. We are second in the table which is drumming up over excitement.
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2017/2018 we finished 2nd with 81 points and a +40 goal difference. That's the squad Ole inherited 6 months later.

Right now we are on course of finishing with 74 points and a +31 goal difference.

I dont know where the big progress is. People always take the lowest point of Mourinho's spell as the point of reference, as if we were always that shitty. Truth is we went backwards since that 2017/2018 season. Even now after 300M spent we aren't as "good" as in that season.
 
SAFMUTD said:
2017/2018 we finished 2nd with 81 points and a +40 goal difference. That's the squad Ole inherited 6 months later.

Right now we are on course of finishing with 74 points and a +31 goal difference.

I dont know where the big progress is. People always take the lowest point of Mourinho's spell as the point of reference, as if we were always that shitty. Truth is we went backwards since that 2017/2018 season. Even now after 300M spent we aren't as "good" as in that season.
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De Gea probably had his best individual season that year, which helped us outperformed our expected point tally.

This current team is better than that team all over the park, with the exception of CBs and keeper. If we didn’t have that Brexit transfer window and just keep playing Smalling/Jones/Rojo, I doubt we would be much worse off at the back even with the constant chop and change due to their injury record.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
De Gea probably had his best individual season that year, which helped us outperformed our expected point tally.

This current team is better than that team all over the park, with the exception of CBs and keeper. If we didn’t have that Brexit transfer window and just keep playing Smalling/Jones/Rojo, I doubt we would be much worse off at the back even with the constant chop and change due to their injury record.
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Yes De Gea was great, but so has been Bruno. You can't take a factor like that to justify a season.

Bottom line is, we haven't improved at all. If anything we have regressed since that season. 300M and 2 and a half years latter and we are still talking about rebuild and improvement.

We have bought overpriced underperformed players, such as Maguire and AWB. Others that are simply not good enough such as James, VDB and Alex Telles. The only real success is Bruno, so that myth about how good Ole is with his recruitment must be disregarded by now.
 
SAFMUTD said:
2017/2018 we finished 2nd with 81 points and a +40 goal difference. That's the squad Ole inherited 6 months later.

Right now we are on course of finishing with 74 points and a +31 goal difference.

I dont know where the big progress is. People always take the lowest point of Mourinho's spell as the point of reference, as if we were always that shitty. Truth is we went backwards since that 2017/2018 season. Even now after 300M spent we aren't as "good" as in that season.
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Surely you can see progress not only in the way we play but also clear progress with individual players, Fred and Shaw to name 2?
 
I think do a Liverpool. Spend £150m on a defender and keeper. We’re the league’s top scorers. It’s not a huge concern to attack for us.

We need some leaders at the back though. Starting with a keeper who takes charge. Prime VDS would be perfect.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Yes De Gea was great, but so has been Bruno. You can't take a factor like that to justify a season.

Bottom line is, we haven't improved at all. If anything we have regressed since that season. 300M and 2 and a half years latter and we are still talking about rebuild and improvement.

We have bought overpriced underperformed players, such as Maguire and AWB. Others that are simply not good enough such as James, VDB and Alex Telles. The only real success is Bruno, so that myth about how good Ole is with his recruitment must be disregarded by now.
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Overpriced & underperforming comes down to the same thing if your expectations are based on price.

Overpriced or not, Maguire is easily our best CB just by virtue of him staying fit.
AWB is young and already one of the best right backs in the league.

People rate Ole's recruitment because of how succesful his big money signings have been: Bruno, Maguire, AWB.

I think its too early to write off VDB. Telles was a bargain considering he was bought for the bench. James was gamble that didn't pan out.

Cavani is another great Ole signing.

Bruno is the first world class player we've signed since SAF left.

i fail to understand how one can look at all of Ole's signings in context and not rate his transfer record.

How can we occupy the same spot in the table, yet "have regressed"? You need to spend money to maintain a certain level as well.
 
LovelyLittlePanda said:
Overpriced & underperforming comes down to the same thing if your expectations are based on price.

Overpriced or not, Maguire is easily our best CB just by virtue of him staying fit.
AWB is young and already one of the best right backs in the league.

People rate Ole's recruitment because of how succesful his big money signings have been: Bruno, Maguire, AWB.

I think its too early to write off VDB. Telles was a bargain considering he was bought for the bench. James was gamble that didn't pan out.

Cavani is another great Ole signing.

Bruno is the first world class player we've signed since SAF left.

i fail to understand how one can look at all of Ole's signings in context and not rate his transfer record.

How can we occupy the same spot in the table, yet "have regressed"? You need to spend money to maintain a certain level as well.
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I wouldn’t bother, I suspect he won’t be happy with anything Ole does
 
golden_blunder said:
Not true. We’ve made big progress. People are running away with their expectations. We are second in the table which is drumming up over excitement.

we don’t need to replace the RB, he’s making progress and we have a home grown competition in Laird or bring back Dalot for a season to compete.

we do need to look at a new CB. Tuanzebe, Jones and Bailly are all injury prone, Rojo has left. We will need to spend money here and ship at least 1 out. It shouldn’t cost too much, milenkovic or konate are both available for reasonable fees

left full back is sorted.

midfield will depend on whether Pogba is staying or going. Matic needs replaced but depending on how Garner does on loan he may be ready for first team minutes next season.

forwards is an interesting one, we have 3 lads yet to reach their peak, backed up by a world class but aging Cavani. However none of them are going to guarantee 25 goals a season. Depending on budget we may have to trade up on Martial but it could also be delayed for another year

right wing I don’t think we need to spend more money on. We’ve bought Diallo and he’s impressing everyone in training and looks a class above u23 level. I suspect he will be phased in during the remainder of this season and will be a first team player next season.

goalkeeper is the one that might be most urgent. DDG is just not improving and likely to regress with age as his reflexes slow down. He doesn’t bring anything else to the role. He’a not dominant like schmeichel was, or a talker and organizer like VDS was or even good on the ball like Barthez was. He will need replaced either this summer or next. I’d be tempted to try for the Milan keeper, he’s out of contract this summer. If that doesn’t work, promote Henderson and keep Romero as number 2 again.

The one person I’d go all out for is grealish this summer. The cost could be offset by selling the likes of lingard, Jones, Andreas P abs releasing salary by giving frees to mata and matic.
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I agree with most of this but in my opinion people on this forum massively underrate Dean Henderson. He was absolutely fantastic for Sheffield United last season - look at the difference between then and now if nothing else. Statiscally he was I think the third best goalkeeper in the league last year and that was his first ever season in the premier League and he's still young. He needs a proper run now.

Up front yes - I think we DESPERATELY need better options. Traore looks amazing but another number 9 could make a tremendous difference. Solskjaer knows strikers - he "found" Haaland after all so I'm confident he will improve us there.

Centre back we need options but I like Bailly and Maguire. Hopefully there's someone out there that we can find.

But right wing is the absolute key for us. Wan Bissaka is getting better, and Grealish would be an interesting option for sure, but I'm thinking that Sancho will 100% be ours if Dortmund fail to make the CL.
 
GazTheLegend said:
I agree with most of this but in my opinion people on this forum massively underrate Dean Henderson. He was absolutely fantastic for Sheffield United last season - look at the difference between then and now if nothing else. Statiscally he was I think the third best goalkeeper in the league last year and that was his first ever season in the premier League and he's still young. He needs a proper run now.

Up front yes - I think we DESPERATELY need better options. Traore looks amazing but another number 9 could make a tremendous difference. Solskjaer knows strikers - he "found" Haaland after all so I'm confident he will improve us there.

Centre back we need options but I like Bailly and Maguire. Hopefully there's someone out there that we can find.

But right wing is the absolute key for us. Wan Bissaka is getting better, and Grealish would be an interesting option for sure, but I'm thinking that Sancho will 100% be ours if Dortmund fail to make the CL.
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Im not convinced that spending big money on Sancho is the right thing to do in the current climate. I’d be tempted to see how Diallo pans out and still giving minutes to Greenwood
 
LovelyLittlePanda said:
Overpriced & underperforming comes down to the same thing if your expectations are based on price.

Overpriced or not, Maguire is easily our best CB just by virtue of him staying fit.
AWB is young and already one of the best right backs in the league.

People rate Ole's recruitment because of how succesful his big money signings have been: Bruno, Maguire, AWB.

I think its too early to write off VDB. Telles was a bargain considering he was bought for the bench. James was gamble that didn't pan out.

Cavani is another great Ole signing.

Bruno is the first world class player we've signed since SAF left.

i fail to understand how one can look at all of Ole's signings in context and not rate his transfer record.

How can we occupy the same spot in the table, yet "have regressed"? You need to spend money to maintain a certain level as well.
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Telles’ transfer is underrated, i think it greatly helped Shaw to elevate his game
 
Andy_Cole said:
I think do a Liverpool. Spend £150m on a defender and keeper. We’re the league’s top scorers. It’s not a huge concern to attack for us.

We need some leaders at the back though. Starting with a keeper who takes charge. Prime VDS would be perfect.
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Yeah we badly need some organisation at the back in GK and at CB because we look so flimsy and easy to get at
 
golden_blunder said:
Im not convinced that spending big money on Sancho is the right thing to do in the current climate. I’d be tempted to see how Diallo pans out and still giving minutes to Greenwood
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Yeah I think that is a sensible approach but is Ole willing to give those two enough games together
 
If we were to invest in a CB and a GK, who would be the prime targets?
 
LovelyLittlePanda said:
Overpriced & underperforming comes down to the same thing if your expectations are based on price.

Overpriced or not, Maguire is easily our best CB just by virtue of him staying fit.
AWB is young and already one of the best right backs in the league.

People rate Ole's recruitment because of how succesful his big money signings have been: Bruno, Maguire, AWB.

I think its too early to write off VDB. Telles was a bargain considering he was bought for the bench. James was gamble that didn't pan out.

Cavani is another great Ole signing.

Bruno is the first world class player we've signed since SAF left.

i fail to understand how one can look at all of Ole's signings in context and not rate his transfer record.

How can we occupy the same spot in the table, yet "have regressed"? You need to spend money to maintain a certain level as well.
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Of course the fee comes into context when rating a signing. You yourself just did with Alex Telles in your post.

Are you seriously going to rate Maguire as a good signing just because he has stayed fit? I mean we spent 80M on him and made him the most expensive defender in history surely more than being fit should be demanded dont you think? We paid a worldclass fee for him and he's not even near of worldclass.

The worst part is that is not even a surprise, I dont think anybody expected him to suddenly turn worldclass. He's been around his level which is above average/good. Its just that it was plain stupid to pay so much for a player of his quality.

I think a good reference to see if a player has been a good signing or not is to see if his value has increased or decreased. Do you think we could sell Maguire and get our 80M back?

I agree is to early to write VDB off, but I think we can agree is not going good at all at the moment.

For me his signings have been average, as you say at least 3 of his 4 big money signings are in the starting XI. With Bruno being a massive success. But still I think besides Bruno, and obviously Cavani who we got for free, we haven't make our money worth. We are 11th in the league as a defence, after spending 145M on it.
 
golden_blunder said:
Surely you can see progress not only in the way we play but also clear progress with individual players, Fred and Shaw to name 2?
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I cant see progress on the way we play to be honest, our defending is dreadful and our attack looks disjointed at times. Yes some players have improved a lot, such as Shaw. But you cant argue a team has improved by highlighting 1 or 2 players. The whole team must be rated.

I think the best we've been as a team was when we returned from the covid break, there we were flying in attack and completely dominating games. After that I think we've regressed, we haven't been able to replicate it.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Of course the fee comes into context when rating a signing. You yourself just did with Alex Telles in your post.

Are you seriously going to rate Maguire as a good signing just because he has stayed fit?

I think a good reference to see if a player has been a good signing or not is to see if his value has increased or decreased. Do you think we could sell Maguire and get our 80M back?

But still I think besides Bruno, and obviously Cavani who we got for free, we haven't make our money worth. We are 11th in the league as a defence, after spending 145M on it.
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Exactly, the way I read your original post you were taking price into consideration for your assessment on Maguire and AWB ("overpriced"), but not for Telles ("not good enough")

On Maguire:
No, I was saying that it's undeniable he's our best centre back on fitness alone. I think on ability he's slightly ahead of Bailly and significantly ahead of Lindelof. He's slower than Bailly, but so much more comfortable on the ball.

I do not think he is worth 80 million now, or then. More like 40-45 million. Fact remains he was an upgrade on all the centre backs we had. Tune into Roma's next game if you're unconvinced.

Do you hold it against the manager we've overpaid or are there other culprits as well? Besides I would rather overpay than not get a successful upgrade or waste 80million on failures, as was custom in the LVG days.

So let's see:
Overpaid on Maguire/AWB, not poor signings.
Value for Telles.
Poor gamble on James.
Quality signings in Bruno and Cavani.
Too early to tell with Donny.

How is this not a solid transfer record?

I personally think AWB was worth the price, time will tell I guess.
 
Buy Haaland, send Martial in part exchange so shouldn't cost loads,
Buy Upamecano or swap for Lindelof,
Buy Grealish, giving them Axel,
Sell Matic and Mata buy Rice
 
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LovelyLittlePanda said:
Exactly, the way I read your original post you were taking price into consideration for your assessment on Maguire and AWB ("overpriced"), but not for Telles ("not good enough")

On Maguire:
No, I was saying that it's undeniable he's our best centre back on fitness alone. I think on ability he's slightly ahead of Bailly and significantly ahead of Lindelof. He's slower than Bailly, but so much more comfortable on the ball.

I do not think he is worth 80 million now, or then. More like 40-45 million. Fact remains he was an upgrade on all the centre backs we had. Tune into Roma's next game if you're unconvinced.

Do you hold it against the manager we've overpaid or are there other culprits as well? Besides I would rather overpay than not get a successful upgrade or waste 80million on failures, as was custom in the LVG days.

So let's see:
Overpaid on Maguire/AWB, not poor signings.
Value for Telles.
Poor gamble on James.
Quality signings in Bruno and Cavani.
Too early to tell with Donny.

How is this not a solid transfer record?

I personally think AWB was worth the price, time will tell I guess.
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The standard you've set for Maguire IMO is really low, saying he's a good transfer simply because he was an improvement on what we had its like paying a world record fee for a RW which produces average numbers and saying it was a good transfer because he's better than what we had.

Of course Ole's record is better than LVG, Ole's signings have been average while LVG were piss poor. Seriously making a case of the manager with the worst signings in our history.

Besides that there's not much I can disagree with you, I think the only difference we have is how we rate if the transfer record is good or not. For me being overpriced automatically makes it a poor transfers, not meaning the player is poor but the transfer was.
 
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