What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

Another attacking mid/playmaker just like City have De Bruyne and Bernardo Silva we need to have two or we will be again playing like a headless chicken in weeks Bruno Fernandes is injured/suspended.
 
Skåre Willoch said:
The retirement home I'm talking about is Thiago Silva, Edinson Cavani and Joao Moutinho.

Silva would be a brutal watch in the Premier League at his age, I think. I actually think the same goes for Bonucci and Boateng. Thanks, but no thanks.

Moutinho is decent, nothing more. We should stay far, far away from him in my opinion. Buy someone 10, or even 15 years younger.

I can think of several reasons not to sign Cavani, actually.
One reason Cavani should not be signed is that he's 33, turning 34 in february. Another reason is the wages he's allegedly demanding (€12m net). A third reason we shouldn't sign Cavani is the length of the contract he allegedly demanding (two years). A fourth reason to not sign Cavani is that he's been injured quite a bit this season (4 separate injuries, in fact).
Also, "scores for fun"? 4 goals in League 1, 7 goals in all competitions this season. I know he's not really played much, but 4 league goals sounds like he's not having much fun, then.
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That's not a retirement home. You need 5-10 experienced players to win at the highest level. What I proposed up there would be the lower end of that spectrum. I'd love to buy Marquinhos or De Ligt or Laporte or Varane instead of Silva, but that's not going to happen. For one year he'd be worth just for the experience and mentality he'd bring in the locker room, let alone if he can give you a few good matches in a season.

Yeah, Moutinho is decent and cheap and a winner. You're signing him for depth, not to be a starter. Again, I'd love VdB or Aouar for that spot, but it's not realistic.

Age doesn't matter. How old was RvP when we signed him? How old are top scorers in top 5 leagues right now? Wages also don't matter to fans, that's Glazers business. We'd actually be reducing the wage bill if you replace Alexis with Cavani. Not even him, it'd be better to have Cavani than Mata, Lingard and Pereira combined.

How is two years a negative? That's perfectly reasonable.

He has been injured this season, but looking at his career that's an outlier. Of course there's a possibility he could be permanently damaged but that's why we have doctors and players have medicals before signing.

Yeah, scores for fun. Only CR, Messi and Lewa have scored more goals than him this decade. And Lewa took him over this season while he was injured. And 2-3 of those years Cavani played as a winger instead of striker. His minutes to goal ratio is still decent this season even with all the injuries and lack of playing time.
 
ILC said:
That's not a retirement home. You need 5-10 experienced players to win at the highest level. What I proposed up there would be the lower end of that spectrum. I'd love to buy Marquinhos or De Ligt or Laporte or Varane instead of Silva, but that's not going to happen. For one year he'd be worth just for the experience and mentality he'd bring in the locker room, let alone if he can give you a few good matches in a season.

Yeah, Moutinho is decent and cheap and a winner. You're signing him for depth, not to be a starter. Again, I'd love VdB or Aouar for that spot, but it's not realistic.

Age doesn't matter. How old was RvP when we signed him? How old are top scorers in top 5 leagues right now? Wages also don't matter to fans, that's Glazers business. We'd actually be reducing the wage bill if you replace Alexis with Cavani. Not even him, it'd be better to have Cavani than Mata, Lingard and Pereira combined.

How is two years a negative? That's perfectly reasonable.

He has been injured this season, but looking at his career that's an outlier. Of course there's a possibility he could be permanently damaged but that's why we have doctors and players have medicals before signing.

Yeah, scores for fun. Only CR, Messi and Lewa have scored more goals than him this decade. And Lewa took him over this season while he was injured. And 2-3 of those years Cavani played as a winger instead of striker. His minutes to goal ratio is still decent this season even with all the injuries and lack of playing time.
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Experience: "You don't win anything with kids". Also, we have plenty of experience already.

Silva: No one (or me, at least) have talked about us signing De Ligt, Laporte or Varane. This doesn't change my stance on Silva anyway. I'd rather not sign a CB at all, than going for Silva.

Moutinho: Is it really that much more realistic for us to sign Moutinho than Van de Beek? How so? He won't be that cheap, he probably loves playing for Wolves with the rest of Portugal, and is already on a 100k/week contract.

Cavani: His injuries might be an outlier, or it might be a consequence of him getting older. That many injuries at his age, while playing so few minutes, is not a very good sign in my opinion. The fact that he's scored a lot of goals in the past decade is good. I love that. I actually have always liked Cavani. But in 2019/2020 he's not scored for fun. But again, he's barely played this season, so I ca't really use that against him, I guess. But he still wants a huge contract (money wise), and we have absolutely no idea whether or not he's up for the task anymore. PSG doesn't think so, why should we? This is not like us signing Zlatan. This is like us signing the guy who was Zlatans sidekick. We're not signing Batman, we're signing an aging Robin. I might like us signing him for a 1 year, very incentive based contract. Otherwise, no.
 
What about Callum Hudson-Odoi ? He is not happy at Chelsea 19y old skillful, can play both wings. Then we can get rid of James and have LW: Rash, Odoi - ST: Martial, Ighalo(if he stays) - RW: Sancho (hopefully), Greenwood.
 
croadyman said:
So maybe Sancho & VDB as the quality players and Pau Torres as the prospect
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Something like that. The quality players should be able to compete with the current starting players from day one to increase the overall team quality and not just the quality of the bench.
 
Sancho
Jimenez (If we're not signing Ighalo)
Young CDM
Upamecamo/Konate
Left Back

Need to move on:
Sanchez
Mata
Lingard
Dalot (If Oles not going to play him)
Smalling
Jones
Shaw
Rojo unless he can be 3rd choice LCB
 
MrSingh2002 said:
Sancho
Jimenez (If we're not signing Ighalo)
Young CDM
Upamecamo/Konate
Left Back

Need to move on:
Sanchez
Mata
Lingard
Dalot (If Oles not going to play him)
Smalling
Jones
Shaw
Rojo unless he can be 3rd choice LCB
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Still think it will be this summer

Sancho
Grealish/VDB
Upamecano/Konate/Torres

We will look at the CDM situation over the next season and also can see us bringing in striker when Ighalo leaves
 
We need an RW, back up AM, Matic successor, Top class CB and possibly LB to compete for the title and in he champions league

The usual policy is 3 players at best so this summer we should be looking to sign an RW (Sancho), a backup AM (Grealish/VdB) and a Top class CB. Sancho and Grealish/VdB are doable but adding a top class CB would be costly and unrealistic. Asides from that there isn't a top class CB available right now that can transform our defense that is currently the joint second best in the league and make it no.1. But we still need a CB since Smalling and Rojo are leaving and our backups can't be relied upon. After Sancho and Grealish and offloading a few players we should still be able to get a cheap low risk high reward CB. Joe Rodon or Kabak are my pick as both would be cheap and could challenge Lindelof and Maguire rather than just being back ups

If we get RW, back up AM and solid rotational CB, then 2021 window we should be looking at another three positions - DM, top class CB and LB but they are dependent on these three things

1) Have Mctominay and Fred shown they are good Matic cover? If not then get a DM

2) Is our defense good and reliable enough to challenge for the title? If not then get a top class CB

3) Are both Shaw and Williams good enough? If not then get LB
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
We need an RW, back up AM, Matic successor, Top class CB and possibly LB to compete for the title and in he champions league

The usual policy is 3 players at best so this summer we should be looking to sign an RW (Sancho), a backup AM (Grealish/VdB) and a Top class CB. Sancho and Grealish/VdB are doable but adding a top class CB would be costly and unrealistic. Asides from that there isn't a top class CB available right now that can transform our defense that is currently the joint second best in the league and make it no.1. But we still need a CB since Smalling and Rojo are leaving and our backups can't be relied upon. After Sancho and Grealish and offloading a few players we should still be able to get a cheap low risk high reward CB. Joe Rodon or Kabak are my pick as both would be cheap and could challenge Lindelof and Maguire rather than just being back ups

If we get RW, back up AM and solid rotational CB, then 2021 window we should be looking at another three positions - DM, top class CB and LB but they are dependent on these three things

1) Have Mctominay and Fred shown they are good Matic cover? If not then get a DM

2) Is our defense good and reliable enough to challenge for the title? If not then get a top class CB

3) Are both Shaw and Williams good enough? If not then get LB
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My gut feeling is that the priority next summer will be

DM (scouting names next season)
ST (when Haaland clause is activated)
LB/RB cover
 
1.RW : Sancho

2.CM : Sandro Tonali. A dream signing even he might end up at Inter or JUve. You never know before you try. Just make a 50-60 mill Euro with add on take or leave it for Bresia to consider ASAP. To try and show that United want him. To be appreciate, his football skills.

3.CB:

4. Another CF, CAM and RW option in : Josip Ilicic or Federico Chiesa
 
The more I see Fred the more I want a central midfielder who is good on the ball, the drop of from Bruno & Pogba to McTominay & Fred is way too big. Saw vs Palace that Pogba needed to sacrifice his game to hold McTominay’s hand, wasn’t until Matic came on which then freed Pogba to play his natural game.

So for me Grealish & Van de Beek are needed along with Sancho if went want to battle for a top 3 place and to get beyond the QF on the Champions League. I know it’s too much to ask for in one summer especially after how 2020 has been. So I think we are 2 good summer windows away from challenging

I would give Tuanzebe one more season to show if he can stay fit and be the guy to partner Maguire going forward.

Hopefully this doesn’t look too much like FIFA/ Football manager

This summer
Sancho & Grealish
January: try and keep Ighalo for 6 more months or loan another striker

loan out Henderson again and maybe James

2021 Summer
Back up forward, Van de Beek, Rice or Neves, if Tuanzebe hasn’t had a good season then Gabriel or Konate

Outs by the end of summer 21
Lingard
Mata
Pereira
Jones
Smalling
Sanchez
Rojo
Dalot
DDG (can’t have Dave & Henderson)
Fred (doesn’t fit our style of play)
 
I think we need another CB, LB, Winger and a world class CF! I think Wily Boly from Wolves would be a great fit and i think he's a better defender than Lindelof. Ben Chilwell from Leicester City or even Lucas Digne from Everton would be more reliable than Shaw, Williams is still raw but potential is there. Son from Spurs would be another good player for us but i cant see Tottenham selling him. Abuameyang would be a fantastic signing and he's proven how good he is considering Arsenal have been terrible.
 
paulscholes18 said:
The more I see Fred the more I want a central midfielder who is good on the ball, the drop of from Bruno & Pogba to McTominay & Fred is way too big. Saw vs Palace that Pogba needed to sacrifice his game to hold McTominay’s hand, wasn’t until Matic came on which then freed Pogba to play his natural game.

So for me Grealish & Van de Beek are needed along with Sancho if went want to battle for a top 3 place and to get beyond the QF on the Champions League. I know it’s too much to ask for in one summer especially after how 2020 has been. So I think we are 2 good summer windows away from challenging

I would give Tuanzebe one more season to show if he can stay fit and be the guy to partner Maguire going forward.

Hopefully this doesn’t look too much like FIFA/ Football manager

This summer
Sancho & Grealish
January: try and keep Ighalo for 6 more months or loan another striker

loan out Henderson again and maybe James

2021 Summer
Back up forward, Van de Beek, Rice or Neves, if Tuanzebe hasn’t had a good season then Gabriel or Konate

Outs by the end of summer 21
Lingard
Mata
Pereira
Jones
Smalling
Sanchez
Rojo
Dalot
DDG (can’t have Dave & Henderson)
Fred (doesn’t fit our style of play)
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Sounds very realistic but my gut feeling is that Van Der Beek won't still be on the table this time next year. Neves is a class player and reckon if Rice leaves it will be to join his best mate at Chelsea.

How many of those outs do you think will happen this summer then. I reckon it will be Smalling, Rojo, Lingard, Sanchez and maybe Jones/Dalot.
 
croadyman said:
Sounds very realistic but my gut feeling is that Van Der Beek won't still be on the table this time next year. Neves is a class player and reckon if Rice leaves it will be to join his best mate at Chelsea.

How many of those outs do you think will happen this summer then. I reckon it will be Smalling, Rojo, Lingard, Sanchez and maybe Jones/Dalot.
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Didn't Ajax already announce that Van De Beek has an agreement with them to leave at the end of the season?
 
The two critical positions, for me, are RW and DM with CB also in consideration but it really depends on whether we trust Tuanzebe to outgrow his injury problems or he is now another Phil Jones.

I just don't think we will have funds to buy another player like back up AM, if we sign Sancho and we already have Pogba who is as good as Bruno up the pitch we wouldn't need one. Unless of course if we can pick one from the relegated teams for a reasonable price.

What we need more in midfield is a successor to Matic who comes in to share the load right now. I think AZ's Koopmeiners would do well because he has the skill set to be the DLP like Carrick whilst being defensively sound. Such a good passer from deep will give us the option of maintaining a reasonable level of creativity from midfield even if we lose Bruno and/or Pogba.
 
AneRu said:
The two critical positions, for me, are RW and DM with CB also in consideration but it really depends on whether we trust Tuanzebe to outgrow his injury problems or he is now another Phil Jones.

I just don't think we will have funds to buy another player like back up AM, if we sign Sancho and we already have Pogba who is as good as Bruno up the pitch we wouldn't need one. Unless of course if we can pick one from the relegated teams for a reasonable price.

What we need more in midfield is a successor to Matic who comes in to share the load right now. I think AZ's Koopmeiners would do well because he has the skill set to be the DLP like Carrick whilst being defensively sound. Such a good passer from deep will give us the option of maintaining a reasonable level of creativity from midfield even if we lose Bruno and/or Pogba.
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Yeah there is no doubt we need a DLP type player but am absolutely certain this will be top priority next summer.

The reason I think that is because Ole wants to give McTominay/Garner chances to be Matic deputy next season. I am not saying that is the right decision but that is what think will happen.
 
paulscholes18 said:
The more I see Fred the more I want a central midfielder who is good on the ball, the drop of from Bruno & Pogba to McTominay & Fred is way too big. Saw vs Palace that Pogba needed to sacrifice his game to hold McTominay’s hand, wasn’t until Matic came on which then freed Pogba to play his natural game.

So for me Grealish & Van de Beek are needed along with Sancho if went want to battle for a top 3 place and to get beyond the QF on the Champions League. I know it’s too much to ask for in one summer especially after how 2020 has been. So I think we are 2 good summer windows away from challenging

I would give Tuanzebe one more season to show if he can stay fit and be the guy to partner Maguire going forward.

Hopefully this doesn’t look too much like FIFA/ Football manager

This summer
Sancho & Grealish
January: try and keep Ighalo for 6 more months or loan another striker

loan out Henderson again and maybe James

2021 Summer
Back up forward, Van de Beek, Rice or Neves, if Tuanzebe hasn’t had a good season then Gabriel or Konate

Outs by the end of summer 21
Lingard
Mata
Pereira
Jones
Smalling
Sanchez
Rojo
Dalot
DDG (can’t have Dave & Henderson)
Fred (doesn’t fit our style of play)
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We need a CB this window. We only have two fit, Lindelof and Maguire. If one of them were injured we'd be playing TFM or Matic there. Jones is always injured as is Bailly.
Rojo is gone. Estudiantes released him from his loan so he is off fecking around in his native land doing who knows what. One thing is certain, he's not coming back to Carrington.

We need a RW. Hopefully Sancho signing is just a formality. Greenwood is miles ahead of James in quality. James is still young and should be loaned out.

We need a DM( Matic replacement). Fred and McTominay are squad players, not players we can rely on for long periods. McTominay shows the most promise of the two and most likely to be here for the long term.

We're probably going to fill 2 of these 3 positions this window. If I had to guess it would be RW(Sancho) and CB(not sure who we're looking at). We're also most likely going to sign an AM before a DM hence the Grealish VDB rumors as of late.
If we don't sign a CB this window, as much as I hate to say it, we need to bring Smalling back. However, a new CB is most likely contingent on him being sold.

The next window we need to be looking at strengthening fullbacks and whatever else we don't address this window.

Regarding DDG and Henderson. I'm not convinced Henderson is sufficient replacement for DDG but what do we have to lose by giving him the chance? He's Young and by all accounts wants the chance to succeed at United but is he good enough? Are his current mistakes more or less than DDG's mistakes when he was brought in? DDG had a better defense in front of him than Henderson will have if he comes back for next season. Too many variables to compare apples to apples.
DDG is not aging well as far as keepers go. I'm not talking about actual age, I'm talking about keeper prime age. Most top keepers get better with age and play into their mid-late 30's. He's gone off the rails too young. I think he will be the #1 at least for another year. It will be a mistake if Ole does not address it in the form of a new coach or reinforcements/competition. BTW, who is the current keeper coach? He needs to be held accountable as well. Is it Dave's choice or Ole's choice?
Add to that the curious case of Romero. Let's say he is given more matches to give DDG a rest or compete for the #1 spot. It won't be a permanent situation because if he was good enough to be #1, he'd already be getting more chances.
If Henderson is given the chance, Romero should be sold or loaned out. Would be a waste of a career to continue at United as 3rd choice.
 
croadyman said:
Yeah there is no doubt we need a DLP type player but am absolutely certain this will be top priority next summer.

The reason I think that is because Ole wants to give McTominay/Garner chances to be Matic deputy next season. I am not saying that is the right decision but that is what think will happen.
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I think next season comes a season too soon for Garner and much as we love him McTominay shouldn't be in this conversation as a potential starter. Matic's performances are prone to steep declines if he is overplayed and we need a genuine first team contender as his understudy so that we have the luxury of using Matic when he is fresh and at his best.
 
AneRu said:
I think next season comes a season too soon for Garner and much as we love him McTominay shouldn't be in this conversation as a potential starter. Matic's performances are prone to steep declines if he is overplayed and we need a genuine first team contender as his understudy so that we have the luxury of using Matic when he is fresh and at his best.
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I think if we were going to sign a DLP this summer then Matic wouldn't have signed a 3 year contract
 
croadyman said:
I think if we were going to sign a DLP this summer then Matic wouldn't have signed a 3 year contract
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Yeah I get that and I agree that's what seems to be happening but that would be a mistake. As good as Matic can be we have also known how poor he can be when off form and if he plays one too many games.

This has the potential to leave us fecked like what happened with the forwards until Greenwood stepped up. We could find ourselves having to rely on Garner massively improving. After Sancho we have to avoid a situation where might find ourselves going back to a McFred midfield, I think now we all appreciate their limitations in the context of how we want to play.
 
As said x times before: 1 fullback that can cross and contribute in attack.

Teams will continue to put 10 men in the middle of the pitch to stop us from building up through the middle. Getting a fullback like Chilwell, Telles etc will make this x times more difficult. For the RB, we should give Laird 2 years to evaluate if he can stay fit, and AWB is a good isolation defender so makes him somewhat ok to have in the team.

And options on the bench that are capable.
 
Compare our midfield three to Liverpool's or City's:

Fabinho, Wijnaldum, Henderson

Rodri, Gundogan, KDB.

Matic, Pogba, Bruno.

On this balance, ours looks really strong, stronger than Liverpool's and even perhaps stronger than City's, overall.

It's a great midfield three and the names show quality and creativity and talent.

Alas, it gets smashed against most sides, why? Well for one, Bruno plays as a SS/free role. Pogba also would be suited too and wants to operate like this, pick up the ball in random areas, ping a few balls etc. No structure and keeping shape is neigh on impossible.

In comparison to Liverpool, there is a real lack of workmanship, defensive duties, quickness on the ball. The three of Liverpool recycle the ball into the front three or wide options QUICKLY.

We do not do that, that midfield will not be a success without the addition of work horses and quick passers.

So who do we buy? Honestly open to suggestions because I don't think this will work long term.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Compare our midfield three to Liverpool's or City's:

Fabinho, Wijnaldum, Henderson

Rodri, Gundogan, KDB.

Matic, Pogba, Bruno.

On this balance, ours looks really strong, stronger than Liverpool's and even perhaps stronger than City's, overall.

It's a great midfield three and the names show quality and creativity and talent.

Alas, it gets smashed against most sides, why? Well for one, Bruno plays as a SS/free role. Pogba also would be suited too and wants to operate like this, pick up the ball in random areas, ping a few balls etc. No structure and keeping shape is neigh on impossible.

In comparison to Liverpool, there is a real lack of workmanship, defensive duties, quickness on the ball. The three of Liverpool recycle the ball into the front three or wide options QUICKLY.

We do not do that, that midfield will not be a success without the addition of work horses and quick passers.

So who do we buy? Honestly open to suggestions because I don't think this will work long term.
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Any chance we could get Thiago,forget about the age he is class on the ball. Still want to sign Grealish too
 
Dream "summer" window:

Sancho
Bruno Guimarães/Tonali/Cammavigna/maybe Zakaria but I'm wary of his knee injury
Fast, athletic CB

From there I'd monitor the progress of Thuram, Richarlison, Adama Traore and Ferran Torres over the course of next season.
 
We looked that toothless last night I hope we sign both Grealish & VDB,if it means no CB then so be it even though I know that sounds nuts.
 
CB is the top priority. Have a look at Lindelof on that still shot of the Pogba penalty incident last night and tell me you want him at our club. He's not even at the front or the wall and he's cowarding away. Pathetic player. Slow, weak, poor in the air. What's he even good at?

DM is the next one. Matic is not the answer. How we've given him a 2 Yr deal plus 1 option I will never know. He's okay to have around but he shouldnt be starting every single game. Hes been awful last 3 games. Takes too long on the ball and his legs are going.

Left back..... Luke Shaw is literally our only competent left fullback at the club and he is not unknown to get injured. Brandon is really struggling on that left side being all right footed. Don't see a future for that lad on the left. Hes a right back for me and that's it.


As for Sancho........ 5 months ago I thought he was the biggest priority but with the emmergance of Greenwood, who I think will go on to be the better player of the two, I'm starting to think spending all or the vast majority of our budget on one player is utter madness.
 
Jimenez, Sancho and a world class replacement for Lindelof..

I know it's too much to ask but that's what I think we need. I like Martial and Rashford but they have too many games where neither can hit a barn door and it costs us games. We need clinical individuals like Fernandes to complement them.

Jimenez would bring us something different, he'd give Fernandes more of a target to hit, at the moment it's all one touch around the box football, we need a man that can get on the end of the odd Cross. It's too predictable at times.

Sancho to give us natural width on the right, Greenwood is going to be world class and can play anywhere across the front three, it wouldn't go against him if we signed Sancho, we could rotate the whole front line, preventing the burn out were now seeing.

As for replacing Lindelof, that for me is huge. My opinion our defensive frailties come from him, a good defence is a pair. We need to partner Maguire with a top CB, someone he can rely on when he carries the ball out of defence.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Why do we need two players that can play 10 and 8 when we have no DM asides from an easily fatigued Matic
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Great point, I think though we need another CAM/creative CM we need a DM with good on the ball skills more. We should take advantage of Matic's presence to sign a young promising DM that we can groom to step in after next season. Fred and McT don't have enough on the ball to do what an in form Matic does.

I think getting someone like Koopmeiners will serve us well because in the absence of Pogba we can pair him with McTominay and still not lose much in terms of progressing play up the pitch because he is such a good passer from deep. If we get Sancho then our creative issues, even in the absence of Pogba and Bruno, will be mitigated because he could play as the AM.
 
If the five subs rule is going to continue next season we definitely need to add More quality depth, or coach/mould the young squad players to do this. If Mata/Lingard//Ighalo etc cant be trusted to provide options against West Ham then they are not going to do a job going forward at the club. This is where players such as Grealish could provide a big boost to the club.

A new right back would also be a priority after Fosu Mensahs showing last night. AWB is clearly needing a rest and we have no quality back up.
 
AneRu said:
Great point, I think though we need another CAM/creative CM we need a DM with good on the ball skills more. We should take advantage of Matic's presence to sign a young promising DM that we can groom to step in after next season. Fred and McT don't have enough on the ball to do what an in form Matic does.

I think getting someone like Koopmeiners will serve us well because in the absence of Pogba we can pair him with McTominay and still not lose much in terms of progressing play up the pitch because he is such a good passer from deep. If we get Sancho then our creative issues, even in the absence of Pogba and Bruno, will be mitigated because he could play as the AN
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I think we should get an AM/8 too and a DM then we sell one of Fred or Mctominay. We don't need both of them
 
To be truly competitive, we need a RW, a CB and a DM for the starting 11, as well as a fullback, another CB and an AM for backup.
 
Sancho - Attacker, which means we will have 4 quality players for 3 positions.
CB
DM

And then maybe a 1 or 2 value signings who can add depth to the squad or completely trust players like Fred and McTominay.
 
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