What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

Fosu-Mens said:
So you think that the fullbacks are good enough going forward?
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Yes, have you seen the firepower that is in that line up.Pogba, Bruno, Sancho, Martial and Rashford.
You can’t have Fullbacks like wingers in every team.
In my opinion people talk a lot of trash about our fullbacks when they aren’t even that bad. Sure they can be more decisive when they are in the final 3rd and improve on crossing or the intensity in which they attack. But both are far better defenders than Robertson, TAA, Telles, Grimaldo Gaye, Chillwell And the likes.

I also see Ole preferring to have one or both tucked inside instead of providing width especially if Pogba and Bruno are playing together given both tend to like to drift to the wings And work from there.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Saul I’ve wanted since Fergie/Moyes time and still think he’d be the perfect signing for our midfield. Not a DM as such but more than capable of it. It’s not like I have anything against Fred and McT but to me Saul goes in that 3 and it’s an instant improvement.
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I like him as a player and he is tailor-made to play in the PL, but I still think he'd be better-suited as an 8 than as a 6. He's always struck me as an active midfielder who has a great physical presence and can press and defend very effectively, qualities more appropriate for a CM. But if you're playing at the base of midfield, I think you have to have less of an all-action approach and more of a passive approach based on good positioning. For example, Carrick wasn't a good defender in the active sense but he had great positioning and awareness, and was played at 6 for that reason. Saul may have these qualities but he has never really shown them (Mainly because Atletico haven't asked him to do so); therefore, it seems a bit risky to me to sign him and play him as a 6 when you know for sure that he is a good 8 (And then signing him as an 8 only really makes sense if Pogba leaves).

Also, I think at the base of midfield, you need someone who can offer controlled passing. Again, I think Saul has always preferred to be more actively involved in the attacking phase and has never really shown himself to be a calm, controlled passer. Again, he could have these attributes, it's just that we've never really seen them.

IMO, it might be worth looking at someone like Bruno Guimaraes from Lyon. He's only played three league games for them but he seems to have the physicality to play in the PL, as well as good positioning and good control over his passing. Given that they only signed him in January though, he would likely cost a solid fortune, although I can't imagine that there are too many value-signings at 6 who would be a perfect foil for both Pogba and Bruno.

On a side-note, I like the team other than that and feel that the talent-level of this team wouldn't be too far away from contending, but managerial ability may be a bigger concern.
 
First sell some players:
Jones, Smalling, Rojo, Sanchez, Lingard, Pereira, De Gea.
Jones 8 mill.
Rojo 5 Mill
Sanchez 0 mill
Lingard 15 mill
Pereora 12 mill
Samlling 15 mill
De Gea 50 mill.
________________
105 mill.
Buy:
Sancho 100 mill
Konate 50 mill
Camavinga 50 mill
Szoboszlai 25 mill
______________________
225 mill

If Pogba leaves:
Graelish 50 mill

Bonus signing
Alaba 60 mill.

Sancho, everything already said twice or more often
We have to sell de Gea as long as he will earn us some money. We have Henderson, who is at the same level.
Konate better version of Upamecano
Carmavinga as young Matic back up and will replace him in the future
Szoboszlai young back up for Pogba, Fernandez.

Alaba would be the perfect joker. Could play at LB, CB, CM, DM, LW,.... offer him the DM, if it does not work out, we still have a worldclass LB or CB.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Yes, have you seen the firepower that is in that line up.Pogba, Bruno, Sancho, Martial and Rashford.
You can’t have Fullbacks like wingers in every team.
In my opinion people talk a lot of trash about our fullbacks when they aren’t even that bad. Sure they can be more decisive when they are in the final 3rd and improve on crossing or the intensity in which they attack. But both are far better defenders than Robertson, TAA, Telles, Grimaldo Gaye, Chillwell And the likes.

I also see Ole preferring to have one or both tucked inside instead of providing width especially if Pogba and Bruno are playing together given both tend to like to drift to the wings And work from there.
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But the problem will be to get the ball to those players... The number of times we fail to progress the ball forward, to players in good positions, simply due to our fullbacks being less than impressive on the ball is actually impressive. If we had a passing pattern, movement etc that ensured we would get the ball into the final third without taking chances or hoofing it, then we could, in theory, be successful with two defensive-oriented fullbacks... We don't.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
But the problem will be to get the ball to those players... The number of times we fail to progress the ball forward, to players in good positions, simply due to our fullbacks being less than impressive on the ball is actually impressive. If we had a passing pattern, movement etc that ensured we would get the ball into the final third without taking chances or hoofing it, then we could, in theory, be successful with two defensive-oriented fullbacks... We don't.
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I’d say that has been more of an issue with people like Matic, Fred, Lingard, Mata McTominay Perreria James and the likes and nothing to do with the fullbacks.

I don’t necessarily disagree at times as a team we seem really slow to take advantage of the openings and people seem to be just sitting about waiting for someone else to do something. Lingard being the biggest culprit.

I don’t really see that being an issue that is caused by the fullbacks in anyway given Shaw is probably one of the best players on the ball in the team. I just think he needs to find a more balanced intensity when he goes forward. At times he does seem hesitant to attack and then others he makes lots of runs that are never found.

Bissaka’s main issue for me is that James isn’t very good and the two of them together just don’t seem to have a clue or mesh well. Think Bissaka has done better when it’s been Mata out there who encourages and invites him to go forward with decent passing.

I think someone like Sancho who tends to play inside of the right will open that space and given he has an eye for a pass I could see Bissaka improving vastly if he does a few simple things. First off improve the quality of his crossing and take more first time crosses on. Realise he’s already beaten the man so he can just go and put a cross in.

Depends how Ole wants us to play going forward of course but I just don’t see how he can continue to allow Rashford not to track back put Pogba and Bruno in the line up and not have one of Shaw or Bissaka tuck in to help protect midfield. Shaw and Bissaka will just have to get better at picking the moments they can go which will hopefully happen as this team continues to grow.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
I’d say that has been more of an issue with people like Matic, Fred, Lingard, Mata McTominay Perreria James and the likes and nothing to do with the fullbacks.

I don’t necessarily disagree at times as a team we seem really slow to take advantage of the openings and people seem to be just sitting about waiting for someone else to do something. Lingard being the biggest culprit.

I don’t really see that being an issue that is caused by the fullbacks in anyway given Shaw is probably one of the best players on the ball in the team. I just think he needs to find a more balanced intensity when he goes forward. At times he does seem hesitant to attack and then others he makes lots of runs that are never found.

Bissaka’s main issue for me is that James isn’t very good and the two of them together just don’t seem to have a clue or mesh well. Think Bissaka has done better when it’s been Mata out there who encourages and invites him to go forward with decent passing.

I think someone like Sancho who tends to play inside of the right will open that space and given he has an eye for a pass I could see Bissaka improving vastly if he does a few simple things. First off improve the quality of his crossing and take more first time crosses on. Realise he’s already beaten the man so he can just go and put a cross in.

Depends how Ole wants us to play going forward of course but I just don’t see how he can continue to allow Rashford not to track back put Pogba and Bruno in the line up and not have one of Shaw or Bissaka tuck in to help protect midfield. Shaw and Bissaka will just have to get better at picking the moments they can go which will hopefully happen as this team continues to grow.
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How many times in the build up play do the fullbacks get the ball and it all stops? Either playing a bad pass on a player under pressure, running with it forward and into a trap where the ball is lost or goes over the sideline, using to much time on the ball and forced to pass it back... There is simply no mutual understanding between the fullbacks and the rest of the team on how to progress the ball forward.

While the fullbacks are not the only ones at fault for our less than impressive buildup play, they are doing the same mistakes.
Shaw running into opposition and losing the ball. AWB attempting to control the ball or inaccurately passing the ball and stopping the momentum of the buildup... And neither of them can cross or make any intelligent movement in the final third...
 
Fosu-Mens said:
So you think that the fullbacks are good enough going forward?
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I could be wrong but I think Ethan Laird permitting he can stay injury free will relegate AWB to the bench.

And if I'm correct it will be a huge benefit to us in the long-term.
 
Adnan said:
I could be wrong but I think Ethan Laird permitting he can stay injury free will relegate AWB to the bench.

And if I'm correct it will be a huge benefit to us in the long-term.
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Zero chance we are going to buy another RB soon, so best we can hope for is Laird.
Same as you, the only issue I have with him is the injuries. 12 months ago I had him in the same bracket as Greenwood.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
How many times in the build up play do the fullbacks get the ball and it all stops? Either playing a bad pass on a player under pressure, running with it forward and into a trap where the ball is lost or goes over the sideline, using to much time on the ball and forced to pass it back... There is simply no mutual understanding between the fullbacks and the rest of the team on how to progress the ball forward.

While the fullbacks are not the only ones at fault for our less than impressive buildup play, they are doing the same mistakes.
Shaw running into opposition and losing the ball. AWB attempting to control the ball or inaccurately passing the ball and stopping the momentum of the buildup... And neither of them can cross or make any intelligent movement in the final third...
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I just don’t agree with any of that, I’m sorry. This isn’t the thread for this type of discussion anyway.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Zero chance we are going to buy another RB soon, so best we can hope for is Laird.
Same as you, the only issue I have with him is the injuries. 12 months ago I had him in the same bracket as Greenwood.
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Laird potentially gives us tactical flexibility like the wing back option and has superb technical ability on the ball. I can see Laird and Sancho developing a great understanding, and the combination play between them both has huge potential.
 
Forget players. Best signing we could make this summer is an attacking coach. We will continue to go nowhere until we are able to control possession and build up properly against the majority of teams who come and sit deep vs us.
 
Adnan said:
Laird potentially gives us tactical flexibility like the wing back option and has superb technical ability on the ball. I can see Laird and Sancho developing a great understanding, and the combination play between them both has huge potential.
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If he can stay healthy. And in a team playing more possession-oriented.
 
jesperjaap said:
Well the current climate is the main sticking point, but with some of the youth talents we have not far away if there were intersted parties in all honesty there are reasons to consider selling many of them, wuthout saying why....

DeGea, Grant, Dalot, Lindelof, Smalling, jones, Perreira, Pogba, James, Sanchez AND Lingard, Fosuh-Mensah...sadly I would be happy to see the majority of them leave as well
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Yeah realised i'd forgotten Lingard.

problem is most of them won't go as they will never get the same level of money again.
 
The offensive workrate of our FB is limited by our tactics. Our wingers recieve the ball near the line, so the FB have no space to overlap. So they have to wait until the wingers push inside. Most of the time this scenario takes too long and it is easy to cover our players. So the timing between wingers and FB should be trained, or the recieving point should be changed. If the wingers push inside before they get the ball, the FB have enough space to overlap fast enough. The defense now has more problems to cover our players.
 
Obviously a right winger, and it finally seems we are ready to address that with the relentless pursuit of Sancho.

Not saying Sancho will be the final piece of the puzzle, but he gives us balance and an extra cutting edge that could make us contenders once more.

After RW, I don't see any immediate areas that we desperately need to strengthen, but a solid Matic replacement and a CB to complement Maguire would be a dream in the next 1-2 windows.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
You say Tuanzebe has injury problems and has not proven himself so how is he better than Lindelof? Same thing goes for Baily who has been injured alot, hardly playing and has been inconsistent. I think you are judging based on ability rather than what you see on the pitch. Lindelof is our second most reliable after Maguire and was our best defender for much of last season but he still needs to be upgraded. If Baily and Tuanzebe were playing in other teams, going through the same injury problems and inconsistencies would you take them as big upgrades on Lindelof?
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I totally agree with what you are saying but dont get your point? Yes I am talking completely about ability from what I have seen, but also absolutely what I see on the pitch. Bailly was good in his first season, though made som eerrors and has been injured most of the time since and was terrible when he came back for a few games. Tuanzabe has barely featured but does look talented.

Lindelof has been our second most reliable defender after Maguire......reliable in that he has stayed fit and his only competition has been Phil Jones? That was the whole point I am making. I think Tuanzabe/Bailly are better options but if they cant stay fit then we need to buy another centr back, for the simple reason Lindelof is the only centre back that hsa always been available pretty much to partner Maguire and he is simply not good enough.
 
Nytram Shakes said:
Yeah realised i'd forgotten Lingard.

problem is most of them won't go as they will never get the same level of money again.
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Yes that has been a problem hasnt it. Players on big contracts as at one of the biggest clubs in the world and either ability/performance wise simply dont warrant them
 
Rewriting this now I feel Pogba will stay next season. Anyway for me there are three key areas need addressing in some way, in order of prirority fo rme:

1) Right Wing - I find it almost a disgrace just how weak we have been here for almost a decade now. In my lifetime I can remember Coppell, Strachan, Kanchelskis, Beckham and Ronaldo....We never really replaced that, Valencia was decent for a couple of seasons but our current options Lingard, Mata, James? Daniel James I really dont get people thinking he will be good. I jsut dont see a player there whatsoever. Greenwood should be starting there for the remainder of the season, but in the summer there are two potential world stars we could sign

Sancho or Havertz. If neither of these can happen I also think Chiesa is a superb player, he just doesnt offer the assists and goals and crucial moments of quality as the other two

2) CM - Again we have been weak here for quite a while in terms of an all round box to box midfielder that is good defensively. Robson, Ince, Keane were all absolutely superb and Carrick in his later years in a different way also did a good job. Forget the Pogba of the world cup he can be box to box but doesnt offer anything in the defensive area for me and Fred/McTominay are really just decent though I like McTominay in the bigger games for breaking up play. Again just like right wing there are definately two potentially world class young players, that I am not sure we can sign either but we should be going all out for:

Tonali or Camavinga. Bellingham would probably be the third choice for me and then maybe somebody like VanBeek or a couple of the young French guys like Soumare

3) CB - Maguire has been decent but he was never going to be world class, but that isnt a problem. Our best defences over my lifetime have been partnerships Pallister/Bruce - Stam/JOhnsen - Rio/Vidic, all great partnerships, only two of those players were world class. The problem currently is Tuanzabe/Bailly seem to be having so many injury concerns just like JOnes has over his career here, so our only option most of the time as a partner has been Lindelof. Not only do I feel he isnt the right partner for Maguire, I just dont feel he is anywhere good enough. I think we need to invest and Kpnate or Upamecano I have always liked...though of course there are injury concerns over the two of them as well

We do have several other problems. DeGea over the last two years concerns me but I dont think Henderson is ready yet, though I would consider dropping him for Romero at the moment who has never let us down.

We also have problems up front as Martial doesnt do enough consistently, though I feel creating chances has been more of a problem as we only seem to on the break most of the time. I jsut dont think with Greenwood coming through and the lack of genuine viable and attaianable young talented centre forwards around at the moment that there is anbody for us to target.

The final player is Jack Grealish. I just think he is so talented that a move to a bigger club he has genuine star potential. Even with Mjebri not far from breaking through i do think we sholdnt miss the opportunity to sign him. He offers cover in five positions for us and I actually think we really havent seen just how good he is as we have only seen him for Villa no geven internationally, think he would become a starter and a vital player for us as well, epsecially of course as there is no guaraantee Pogba stays much longer anyway. The only problem is, we are already talking £200m odd with the other three signings if we can get the preferred targets before signing Grealish.

Jones, Rojo, Smalling, Lingard, Perreira, Sanchez and Fosuh Mensah should all be moved on but that doesnt bring in enough money to sign all four players. However with Menghi, Laird & Mjebri as additions to the first team squad next season then selling Dalot along with Lindelof and/or Fred and deffo fo rme though wont happen James) does

DeGea/Romero

Bissake/Laird Konate/Bailly Maguire/Tuanzabe Shaw/Williams


Camavinga/Matic Pogba/McTominay

Fernandes/Grealish

Sancho/Mata Greenwood/Martial Rashford/James


That is definately a top four side next season for me and not far from challenging the top two. Also with some of our youth players not far away like Mjebri, Garner, Menghi, Henderson and possibly Gomes there are players to possibly step up for potential departures the following season like Matic and Mata through age, Bailly if injuries continue, James as he simply isnt good enough and Degea and Pogba if they decide to leave as both have more than flirted with doign so and in the last two years havent really justified consistently there ability as world class players
 
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jesperjaap said:
I totally agree with what you are saying but dont get your point? Yes I am talking completely about ability from what I have seen, but also absolutely what I see on the pitch. Bailly was good in his first season, though made som eerrors and has been injured most of the time since and was terrible when he came back for a few games. Tuanzabe has barely featured but does look talented.

Lindelof has been our second most reliable defender after Maguire......reliable in that he has stayed fit and his only competition has been Phil Jones? That was the whole point I am making. I think Tuanzabe/Bailly are better options but if they cant stay fit then we need to buy another centr back, for the simple reason Lindelof is the only centre back that hsa always been available pretty much to partner Maguire and he is simply not good enough.
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Lindelof needs to be upgraded on but Baily and Tuanzebe has to put in consistent performances on the pitch and stay fit before I say they are big improvements on Lindelof
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Lindelof needs to be upgraded on but Baily and Tuanzebe has to put in consistent performances on the pitch and stay fit before I say they are big improvements on Lindelof
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Erm that is exactly what I am saying as well and because they arent getting on the pitch enough due to injuries, that is why we should be looking at signing a quality defender that will.
 
Majima said:
Forget players. Best signing we could make this summer is an attacking coach. We will continue to go nowhere until we are able to control possession and build up properly against the majority of teams who come and sit deep vs us.
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We could have had pep and Klopp as coach and assistant and they wouldn't have been able to do anything with this team when your team consists of Pierera and Lingard. Since Bruno arrived we are undefeated and playing some good football. And now with Pogba back it can only get better. Give the man a chance...
 
SadlerMUFC said:
We could have had pep and Klopp as coach and assistant and they wouldn't have been able to do anything with this team when your team consists of Pierera and Lingard. Since Bruno arrived we are undefeated and playing some good football. And now with Pogba back it can only get better. Give the man a chance...
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When i say coach, i mean an assistant to come and help Ole, not replace him. Like how SAF needed Queiroz to evolve from British 442 to modern fluid 433 in Europe. That would never have happened by itself if he never brought anyone in. That's my point.
 
Rb first choice Max Aaron’s £25 mil or Willams free at RB

Cb first choice Upamecano £35 mil second choice Kumbulla £25 mil

RW first choice Sancho £90 mil second choice Ferran Torres £40mil

DM first choice Cavminga - second choice
Ndidi both around £50-60 mil

CM first choice szoboszlai second Bellingham both around £25 mil Buy both!!

£165 mil to £260 is the required budget.

lingard £15
Pereira £10
Smalling £15
Jones £10
Rojo £10
Sanchez £0 but his wages would be big plus
De Gea £30
Fred £40
Dalot £20
Mata £5
Matic £5
Outgoings £160 mil

Maximum net spend of £100 million plus 6 incoming and 11 outgoings meaning will save loads wage which in theory should offset the money spent. Transforms our team to be ready to compete for the league we literally 2 very good players in every position. Young team that will be hungry for success and will have a bright future.
 
Majima said:
When i say coach, i mean an assistant to come and help Ole, not replace him. Like how SAF needed Queiroz to evolve from British 442 to modern fluid 433 in Europe. That would never have happened by itself if he never brought anyone in. That's my point.
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Yeah there is no doubt he could really do with an experienced european coach alongside him.
 
jesperjaap said:
Yes that has been a problem hasnt it. Players on big contracts as at one of the biggest clubs in the world and either ability/performance wise simply dont warrant them
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Yep. Alot of people slag of the glazers for not spending enough. Personly I think what they have spent is more than enough considering our wage bill and transfer spend. The problem is it has been spent badly. We have so many bad contracts. The Sanchez one has been the highlight, but the De Gea one isn't much better, and we have at least 5 or 6 other players who are just on wages that mean if they left even on a free we would have to likely supplement their wages. Of course, we aren't fighting for the league with that kind of squad.
 
Jama18418 said:
Rb first choice Max Aaron’s £25 mil or Willams free at RB

Cb first choice Upamecano £35 mil second choice Kumbulla £25 mil

RW first choice Sancho £90 mil second choice Ferran Torres £40mil

DM first choice Cavminga - second choice
Ndidi both around £50-60 mil

CM first choice szoboszlai second Bellingham both around £25 mil Buy both!!

£165 mil to £260 is the required budget.

lingard £15
Pereira £10
Smalling £15
Jones £10
Rojo £10
Sanchez £0 but his wages would be big plus
De Gea £30
Fred £40
Dalot £20
Mata £5
Matic £5
Outgoings £160 mil

Maximum net spend of £100 million plus 6 incoming and 11 outgoings meaning will save loads wage which in theory should offset the money spent. Transforms our team to be ready to compete for the league we literally 2 very good players in every position. Young team that will be hungry for success and will have a bright future.
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That's just fantasy football. I mean Rojo alone we are struggling to even give away. Sachez if he left we would have to fund over half his wages. De Gea's contract means he is on the unsellable list. Jones likely won't agree to leave as he wouldn't get the same wages elsewhere.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Lindelof needs to be upgraded on but Baily and Tuanzebe has to put in consistent performances on the pitch and stay fit before I say they are big improvements on Lindelof
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I think the biggest problem is we currently have 7 centre backs on our books for next season, talking about upgrading any of them is pointless until we find buyers for 3 of them at least.
 
Striker, Right winger, defensive midfielder, left back.

And the team will be full ready to challenge for PL imo.

Next transfer window will be crucial.
 
What we need more than anything is to ship out a lot of those deadwoods. For example ; Jones, Mata, Lingard, Sanchez, Smalling, Rojo and Periera.
Then get Sancho, Grealish and Partey. We will most likely challenge.
I believe Martial will get one more season to prove his worth in the striking position and then we will assess at the end of next season.
 
With Bruno and Pogba in there, we're suddenly 1 really top striker or RW and a CB away from being a really good team.
 
el3mel said:
Striker, Right winger, defensive midfielder, left back.

And the team will be full ready to challenge for PL imo.

Next transfer window will be crucial.
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Who would be your players for each of those positions realistically
 
I think this summer you could do alot worse than....

Make Sancho the main signing and then when villa and west ham go down pick up Rice and Grealish. Rice would then get at least a season training with Matic to help him mature.
 
Out:
De Gea, Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Mata, Lindgard, Pereira, Sanchez

In (in order of importance):
Sancho, AM, MF, CB

------------------------------------Henderson (Romero)-------------------------------------------
AWB (Laird)---Slabhead (Tuanzebe)---Lindelof (Baily)---Shaw (Williams)
------------------------Pogba(McTomminay)---Matic(Fred)--------------------------------
-------Sancho (Greenwood)---Bruno (Gomes)--------Rashford (James)----------
------------------------------------------Martial (Ighalo)----------------------------------------------

We are just a RW away from a really solid first XI and not to shabby second XI
 
Keep Pogba, get Skriniar and Haaland

DDG
Wan-Skriniar-Maguire- Shaw
Pogba-McT
Bruno
Rashford-Haaland-Martial
 
Short term, after yesterday’s game, I’m more confident Greenwood can play RW and have an impact there should we not be able to sign Sancho.

My biggest concern is that who plays when Bruno’s rested or injured? You take him out of the team and we look impotent, especially when the bench is Lingard or Pereria. That’s why Grealish is a must for me, we need someone of that quality to cover his position.

Hopefully we get both of these done but Grealish would be a priority for me.
 
The one glaring spot that needs to be addressed is RW. That needs to be prioritised above all else.

If we manage to bring Sancho in we look like a top team on paper. The next step is replacing the filler in our squad, either by promoting youngsters (Laird replacing Dalot as second choice RB, for example), or through transfers.
 
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