What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

i think it's pretty obvious we need to add a legit striker and a top class mid....along with a rotational mid that adds depth and quality
 
We need at least six more players if we’re really serious about competing.

De Gea needs replacing.

Maguire needs moved on and younger competition for Varane brought in.

Wan-Bissaka isn’t the long term answer; we need a better right back.

We need an understudy for Casemiro, as well as a long term partner for him.

Then there’s the striker issue, which we all know about.

Yesterday, the spine of our team was De Gea, Maguire, McTominay and Weghorst. Ten Hag has this lot punching well above their weight.
 
Top top striker.
Midfielder with versatility to push to be our first starter. It’s no coincidence we are not as good recently since Ericksson got injured and Casimero got his suspensions.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Personally I think kovacic is the best alternative although I'm not sure he's available.



This is also a good thread on a list of De Jong alternatives
Click to expand...


Great read.

He’s basically two players. If we don’t get him. Rabiot and Bellingham covers his loss.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Personally I think kovacic is the best alternative although I'm not sure he's available.



This is also a good thread on a list of De Jong alternatives
Click to expand...



Mainoldo said:
Great read.

He’s basically two players. If we don’t get him. Rabiot and Bellingham covers his loss.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing, really interesting read.

Quite fitting that Bennacer signed on with Milan, I think he’d have been an excellent buy given he has some of Fred’s tenacity paired with De John’s skill set.

I agree it feels like De Jong is pretty unique and either you go for a worse version (statistically) or you cover it with two players. Not against Bellingham and Rabiot at all.

Other combos I quite like would be:

Ugarte or Caicedo with Kokcu or Le Fee
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
My top 5 summer signings:

Ramos - 65m pounds + adds on (120k pw)
Raya - 20m pounds (100k pw)
Romeo Lavia - 45m pounds (100k pw)
Kim Min-Jae - 45m pounds (200k pw)
Veiga - 35m pounds (110k pw)

Total: 210m pounds + adds on and 630k per week wages

Sell:
Maguire: 25m (200k)
Lindelof: 15m (120k)
VDB: 15m (120k)
McT: 25m (60k)
Martial: 20m (250k)
Elanga: 10m (5k)

Total: 110m pounds and 755k per week wages
Click to expand...
God, is Martial on that much? There's no way we're getting rid of him until his contract expires. Would be a good window but I still don't think it would address our midfield's poor build up. Lavia is more of a Casemiro understudy and Veiga seems to be an advanced eight who can carry and has a knack for scoring. I think we need someone who is secure in possession and can really connect the defence and the attack in build up. FdJ is the blueprint because he's good at both carrying and passing but at the moment our midfield is full of risky passers (Bruno, Casemiro and even Eriksen) or have technical flaws (Fred, McTominay) and none are press resistant (and this extends into defence too) with Varane, AWB and DDG being poor in this regard.
 
daba said:
Thanks for sharing, really interesting read.

Quite fitting that Bennacer signed on with Milan, I think he’d have been an excellent buy given he has some of Fred’s tenacity paired with De John’s skill set.

I agree it feels like De Jong is pretty unique and either you go for a worse version (statistically) or you cover it with two players. Not against Bellingham and Rabiot at all.

Other combos I quite like would be:

Ugarte or Caicedo with Kokcu or Le Fee
Click to expand...
Bennacer extended but I'm nearly sure he kept his 50mn release clause so he should be available for that fee.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
God, is Martial on that much? There's no way we're getting rid of him until his contract expires. Would be a good window but I still don't think it would address our midfield's poor build up. Lavia is more of a Casemiro understudy and Veiga seems to be an advanced eight who can carry and has a knack for scoring. I think we need someone who is secure in possession and can really connect the defence and the attack in build up. FdJ is the blueprint because he's good at both carrying and passing but at the moment our midfield is full of risky passers (Bruno, Casemiro and even Eriksen) or have technical flaws (Fred, McTominay) and none are press resistant (and this extends into defence too) with Varane, AWB and DDG being poor in this regard.
Click to expand...

I’m pretty sure Martial will stay here as back-up ST next year, unless ETH is adamant he needs a better presser as back-up. In that case we’ll probably just take a big hit and send him out on loan for no fee and paying 50% of his wages. And get either Weghorst or another cheap signing in.
 
kaku06 said:
A midfielder or 2 who can control the fecking ball can pass under pressure and can control the tempo of the game. I’m sick and tired of mcfred and even Bruno being utterly incompetent at these things.
Click to expand...

Yes that is easily second priority behind a striker,this team needs to recycle ball so much better than is currently happening.

I would then go GK/RB as both are still issues in the first XI,would make a backup for Casa 4th on list and cover for CB maybe 5th even 6th.

Wildcard free agent signing would be Thuram or despite shenanigans last summer Rabiot
 
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Kag said:
We need at least six more players if we’re really serious about competing.

De Gea needs replacing.

Maguire needs moved on and younger competition for Varane brought in.

Wan-Bissaka isn’t the long term answer; we need a better right back.

We need an understudy for Casemiro, as well as a long term partner for him.

Then there’s the striker issue, which we all know about.

Yesterday, the spine of our team was De Gea, Maguire, McTominay and Weghorst. Ten Hag has this lot punching well above their weight.
Click to expand...

Yeah I would go 7 in total which are in order of priority

ST
CM
GK
Backup DM (ideally can play 8 too)
RB
Backup CB
Backup ST
 
croadyman said:
Yes that is easily second priority behind a striker,this team needs to recycle ball so much better than is currently happening.

I would then go GK/RB as both are still issues in the first XI,would make a backup for Casa 4th on list and cover for CB maybe 5th.

Wildcard free agent signing would be Thuram
Click to expand...
How about:

Costa
Min Jae
Frimpong
Rabiot
Tielemans
Kane
Thuram

That should be very affordable, with three free transfers amongst them, and a buyout clause as well. That would allow us to have a competitive squad now, and gradually replace the aging stars like Varane, Casemiro, Eriksen and Kane over the coming years. Min Jae would be the Varane replacement, phased in over the next couple of years, and we can look at the other positions. I like Evan Ferguson for the striker role, and we can determine whether FDJ will ever move.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
God, is Martial on that much? There's no way we're getting rid of him until his contract expires. Would be a good window but I still don't think it would address our midfield's poor build up. Lavia is more of a Casemiro understudy and Veiga seems to be an advanced eight who can carry and has a knack for scoring. I think we need someone who is secure in possession and can really connect the defence and the attack in build up. FdJ is the blueprint because he's good at both carrying and passing but at the moment our midfield is full of risky passers (Bruno, Casemiro and even Eriksen) or have technical flaws (Fred, McTominay) and none are press resistant (and this extends into defence too) with Varane, AWB and DDG being poor in this regard.
Click to expand...
To be fair Kim Min-Jae and Veiga aren’t really my preference as I haven’t watch them much. I only pick them because they have reasonable release clause which makes them realistic target but the point is my top 5 would be striker, 2 midfield, keeper, and centre back.
 
(Realistic) ins:
Ferguson
Kamada
Frimpong
Lukeba
Raya

Outs:
De Gea
Maguire
Fred
VDB
Martial
Dalot
Elanga


First choice:

Raya
Frimpong--Varane--Licha--Shaw
Cas-Kamada
Antony--Bruno--Sancho
Rashford​

Second choice:

Heaton
AWB--Lindelof--Lukeba--Malacia
McT--Eriksen
Pellistri--Amad--Garnacho
Ferguson​
 
Updating:

I haven't mentioned and recommend this guy and player before. After a closer look of him: Stanislav Lobotka

If not De Jong. Stanislav Lobotka is the deep laying cm playmaker United and Ten Hag shall go for. As a complete and allround cm playmaker. I rate Stanislav Lobotka over Eriksen and Sabitzer.

So this is mine new updatings :

+ A top and beast of CB = Haven't decide yet. Kim Min Jae or Antonio Silva from Benfica

+ Stanislav Lobotka. Deep laying cm playmaker

+ A top CF. Osihmen, Kane, Ramos and others alternatives = haven't decide yet which i would pick yet



Clearly the 3 positions where Ten Hag and United need to strength most. 3 positions where United can improve most.
 
LuckyScout78 said:
Updating:

I haven't mentioned and recommend this guy and player before. After a closer look of him: Stanislav Lobotka

If not De Jong. Stanislav Lobotka is the deep laying cm playmaker United and Ten Hag shall go for. As a complete and allround cm playmaker. I rate Stanislav Lobotka over Eriksen and Sabitzer.

So this is mine new updatings :

+ A top and beast of CB = Haven't decide yet. Kim Min Jae or Antonio Silva from Benfica

+ Stanislav Lobotka. Deep laying cm playmaker

+ A top CF. Osihmen, Kane, Ramos and others alternatives = haven't decide yet which i would pick yet



Clearly the 3 positions where Ten Hag and United need to strength most. 3 positions where United can improve most.
Click to expand...
I like Lobotka but he just extended his contract unfortunately
 
IFC 1905 said:
I don’t know why the world isn’t behind Thiago Almada yet

We need Thiago Almada. We absolutely need him.
Click to expand...




This is from a game the other day, MLS. The league is weak as feck, but you can see the control, the passing range, the goal scoring ability. He looks like a 15 years old but with a little bit of work he can be spectacular. Every attacking chance went through him.

21 years old. Already a world champion with Argentina, he will command the next generation along with Enzo, Garnacho, Nico Paz.

He was combining with Messi yesterday and you can see he plays at the same speed Messi does, which is not easy to do at all, they looked to each other constantly.

Can't be that expensive.
 
Pay release fee of Kim Min Jae
Swap Victor Lindelof for Dumfries
Sign Evan Ferguson 50m + 10 in future bonuses
Sign Moussa Dembele on free
Sign Mike Maignan for 60m
Sign Rabiot for free
Sign McAllister for 60m

sell/release/swap
Lindelof - swap
Maguire - 30m
McTominay 25m
Dalot 25m
Henderson 25m
Martial - 30m
Greenwood - release
Williams - 5m
VdB - loan till he gets fitness back then sell

Maignan / DeGea
Dumfries / AWB
Varane / Shaw
Martinez / Kim
Shaw / Malacia
Casemiro / Rabiot
McAllister / Eriksen
Bruno / Sancho
Rashford / Diallo
Ferguson / Dembele
Anthony / Pellestri

squad capable of challenging for league and cups
 
golden_blunder said:
Pay release fee of Kim Min Jae
Swap Victor Lindelof for Dumfries
Sign Evan Ferguson 50m + 10 in future bonuses
Sign Moussa Dembele on free
Sign Mike Maignan for 60m
Sign Rabiot for free
Sign McAllister for 60m

sell/release/swap
Lindelof - swap
Maguire - 30m
McTominay 25m
Dalot 25m
Henderson 25m
Martial - 30m
Greenwood - release
Williams - 5m
VdB - loan till he gets fitness back then sell

Maignan / DeGea
Dumfries / AWB
Varane / Shaw
Martinez / Kim
Shaw / Malacia
Casemiro / Rabiot
McAllister / Eriksen
Bruno / Sancho
Rashford / Diallo
Ferguson / Dembele
Anthony / Pellestri

squad capable of challenging for league and cups
Click to expand...

We may well have to look at this sort of window if those fecking leeches dig their heels in further. Erik deserves his first choices after being forced to only get loan deals and pass on the likes of Gakpo in January
 
golden_blunder said:
Pay release fee of Kim Min Jae
Swap Victor Lindelof for Dumfries
Sign Evan Ferguson 50m + 10 in future bonuses
Sign Moussa Dembele on free
Sign Mike Maignan for 60m
Sign Rabiot for free
Sign McAllister for 60m

sell/release/swap
Lindelof - swap
Maguire - 30m
McTominay 25m
Dalot 25m
Henderson 25m
Martial - 30m
Greenwood - release
Williams - 5m
VdB - loan till he gets fitness back then sell

Maignan / DeGea
Dumfries / AWB
Varane / Shaw
Martinez / Kim
Shaw / Malacia
Casemiro / Rabiot
McAllister / Eriksen
Bruno / Sancho
Rashford / Diallo
Ferguson / Dembele
Anthony / Pellestri

squad capable of challenging for league and cups
Click to expand...

Dumfries is not an improvement over Dalot or AWB. Shaw is not going to be the backup RCB. Ten Hag clearly wants his LCB to be left-footed, which Kim is not. Unless the plan was to play him at RCB instead of Varane, when is he injured or needs a rest, this won't happen. Even as second choice, I don't think we should look at Dembele, we need a more reliable striker, when Ferguson is still young and learning.
 
bucky said:
Dumfries is not an improvement over Dalot or AWB. Shaw is not going to be the backup RCB. Ten Hag clearly wants his LCB to be left-footed, which Kim is not. Unless the plan was to play him at RCB instead of Varane, when is he injured or needs a rest, this won't happen. Even as second choice, I don't think we should look at Dembele, we need a more reliable striker, when Ferguson is still young and learning.
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Dumfries is without doubt better at attacking. So have one better going forward and one better at defending.

Dembele possibly right but he’s as good as the likes of Thuram. Obviously in an ideal world we’d spend more but the list I have would cost around 180m not including wages or agent fees
 
This is the starting 11 I'd be looking to get to, because with the right players it could be a side that seriously challenges (even if it isn't perfect).

X
X - Varane - Martinez - Shaw
Casemiro - X
Antony - Bruno - Rashford
X
​
And given we usually try to sign around four players a year, it isn't necessarily that far away.

But there will likely be signings other signings needed for squad composition too. CB being the obvious example given both Maguire and Lindelof may want to leave this summer, though there may be other exits we don't anticipate too. So we probably won't have the resources to hit all those starting eleven positions this summer.

But still, signings in any of those position have the potential to improve us a lot. One of the fun things with this team at the moment is that we're already doing relatively well while also having very clear, easy upgrades to make. It's hard to imagine we won't be better again next season.
​
 
golden_blunder said:
Dumfries is without doubt better at attacking. So have one better going forward and one better at defending.

Dembele possibly right but he’s as good as the likes of Thuram. Obviously in an ideal world we’d spend more but the list I have would cost around 180m not including wages or agent fees
Click to expand...

Surprised that you value Dumfries from attacking point of view so much. I'm fairly sure, I've read posts of you on here that were along the lines of what happened to defenders that can defend. Regardless of that, Dumfries is not all that in possession, we already have quite a few players that lose possession relatively often or are unsuited to a possession-based style that we most likely will transition to. Dumfries is ill-fitted for that approach. If it's true that Ten Hag has been giving our recruitment department very specific demands of what he wants from his players, then I'm fairly sure someone like Geertruida is more suited to what he is looking for.

Thuram might not be what we are hoping for as the solution to our striker conundrum, but he's definitely better than Dembele. There is a reason one is making arguably the deepest squad on international level, while the other is second choice to Lacazette on club level.

For what it's worth I agree with your value approach in terms of recruitment and I like players like Maignan, Kim, Mac Allister and Ferguson.
 
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bucky said:
Surprised that you value Dumfries from attacking point of view so much. I'm fairly sure, I've read posts of you on here that were along the lines of whappened to defenders that can defend. Regardless of that, Dumfries is not all that in possession, we already have quite a few players that lose possession relatively often or are unsuited to a possession-based style that we most likely will transition to. Dumfries is ill-fitted for that approach. If it's true that Ten Hag has been giving our recruitment department very specific demands of what he wants from his players, then I'm fairly sure someone like Geertruida is more suited to what he is looking for.

Thuram might not be what we are hoping for as the solution to our striker conundrum, but he's definitely better than Dembele. There is a reason one is making arguably the deepest squad on international level, while the other is second choice to Lacazette on club level.

For what it's worth I agree with your value approach in terms of recruitment and I like players like Maignan, Kim, Mac Allister and Ferguson.
Click to expand...

I think it’s pretty obvious Thuram would be a better signing given he’s currently having a much better season, is more versatile and very much on an upward trajectory.

However, if we are signing another striker (whether that’s Kane, Osimhen, Ramos, Ferguson etc) I think someone like Dembele would be happier playing second fiddle for a few years.
 
Current thoughts, assuming we get taken over -
GK: Keep DDG but allow him to mentor a young ball playing GK like Bart Verbruggen from Anderlecht
RB: Neither Dalot or AWB are top drawer. Try to get DD on a reasonable new deal and sell AWB as he has more value. Bring in Jeremie Frimpong from Leverkusen.
LB: Shaw and Malacia are fine here.
CD: Maguire needs to go and Lindelof wants to go. Bring in Giorgio Scalvini (right footer) from Atalanta and William Pacho (left footer) from Antwerp to shadow Varane and Martinez.
DM/CM: Casemiro is the man. Jude Bellingham is a must sign. I'd also bring in Krephren Thuram as someone who can drive forward from just in front of the defence, ala FDJ. Backups are Eriksen, Fred and Mainoo.
AM: Bruno Fernandes becomes permanent captain. Sancho as backup.
RW: Antony and the returning Amad Diallo are good for this position. Bruno to play here as needed too.
LW: Rashford needs a new deal. Garnacho to back him up. Sancho as a rotation option here and other AM/wing positions.
ST: Osimhen will be ridiculously expensive. Kane too old. Therefore, I'd go for Evan Ferguson for the long term future with Marcus Thuram on a free in rotation. Martial kept around because he's on too much to sell and is still very talented the few occasions he's fit.
 
Assuming Qatar will be the new owners:

Out:
Jones
Maguire
Martial
Greenwood
Mctominay
Henderson
Telles
De Gea
Wan Bissaka

In:
Bellingham
Osimhen
Palhina
Timber
Costa
Ferguson
 
SparkedIntoLife said:
Current thoughts, assuming we get taken over -
GK: Keep DDG but allow him to mentor a young ball playing GK like Bart Verbruggen from Anderlecht
RB: Neither Dalot or AWB are top drawer. Try to get DD on a reasonable new deal and sell AWB as he has more value. Bring in Jeremie Frimpong from Leverkusen.
LB: Shaw and Malacia are fine here.
CD: Maguire needs to go and Lindelof wants to go. Bring in Giorgio Scalvini (right footer) from Atalanta and William Pacho (left footer) from Antwerp to shadow Varane and Martinez.
DM/CM: Casemiro is the man. Jude Bellingham is a must sign. I'd also bring in Krephren Thuram as someone who can drive forward from just in front of the defence, ala FDJ. Backups are Eriksen, Fred and Mainoo.
AM: Bruno Fernandes becomes permanent captain. Sancho as backup.
RW: Antony and the returning Amad Diallo are good for this position. Bruno to play here as needed too.
LW: Rashford needs a new deal. Garnacho to back him up. Sancho as a rotation option here and other AM/wing positions.
ST: Osimhen will be ridiculously expensive. Kane too old. Therefore, I'd go for Evan Ferguson for the long term future with Marcus Thuram on a free in rotation. Martial kept around because he's on too much to sell and is still very talented the few occasions he's fit.
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If Jude isn’t possible who do you like?

I’d quite like to see Bennacer and either Lavia or Rabiot come in.
 
daba said:
If Jude isn’t possible who do you like?

I’d quite like to see Bennacer and either Lavia or Rabiot come in.
Click to expand...

All three are good but I’m less sure on Rabiot with the inconsistency and the baggage that accompanies him.

Different profile of player but Ugarte at Sporting is also impressive.

I don’t even necessarily see a definite need for Bellingham in terms of profile of player but he just feels like someone we can’t miss out on. I can see him becoming the best English player in many many years and he just screams future captain. English players are often overrated and overpriced but they are still important to have around a PL squad and Jude could be the best available. Especially as I’m not convinced by many of our emerging academy players.
 
daba said:
I think it’s pretty obvious Thuram would be a better signing given he’s currently having a much better season, is more versatile and very much on an upward trajectory.

However, if we are signing another striker (whether that’s Kane, Osimhen, Ramos, Ferguson etc) I think someone like Dembele would be happier playing second fiddle for a few years.
Click to expand...

I'm fairly certain, if we were to go for Kane, Osimhen or Ramos, we wouldn't be signing Thuram. Thuram only makes sense, if we choose to reinforce other areas, which would limit our budget, and/or go for players like Ferguson, who'll need time.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
I agree but Who though.?
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Well Bellingham or DeJOng are the obvious choices , but not sure either want to come....and I think out huge money transfer goes on a striker anyway Caqueret, Kmbempe Thuram are two good options I feel and neither cost a bomb in terms of current fees
 
There seems little point in discussing potential targets until we know whether the ownership situation is resolved because, if it ends up being the Glazers staying, it will be something like Weghorst and Tielemans.
 
Two strikers
Two central midfielders
Right Back
Centre Back
Keeper

That is what I feel our side needs next season, feek currently our squad is 7players short of challenging for major silverware....but I dont think we need to sign seven and I think the outgoings could and should cover a lot of the outlay this summer:

Out
All players currently here on loan
Henderson
Bailly
Jones
Maguire
Telles
Dalot
Williams
Tuanzabe
McTominay
VDB
Elanga
Martial

The one may be contentious there is DAlot. For me neither of our right backs have proven themselves to be a bonafide number one right back here, despite both having decent seasons/ DAlot is average defensively and decent going forward....that can be massively improved on in a starting right back. Bissaka is average going forward and has positional lapses....but 1 v 1 is as good as anyone, that is something worth holding on to as a second choice for me.

Wont even mention fees on the outgoings as always brings up arguments of "so and so isnt even worth £5m" etc etc, but suffice to say, its a good amount of money coming in, which we havent done bar a couple of sales individually (not for profit) for a long time.

As for the imcomings.

GK - I still rate DeGea and am not 100% convinced there is a ready made replacement tha is a serious upgrade able to handle the pressure. Ive seen little of the foreign youngsters mentioned, but I feel an imcoming keeper should be as competition for now. People can say this didnt work with Henderson....for me DeGea was at his worst during that spell and Henderson was never good enough anyway, so think it would be different.

CB - Varane/Martinez has looked a very good partnership but hasnt happened often enough. Shaw has looked very good as a left sided cb....but it isnt Martinez we need better cover for, its Varane. A young up and coming quality CB to compete and cover the niggle ainjury absenses of Varane definately brings us more point next season. Kim Man Jae is the big name with the release clause, I feel there are lots of good young cb at the moment, sadly a lot of them are left sided....but still plenty, Kotchap for example I like at SOuthampton.

RB - I think we require a swashbuckling attacking full back, we already have the 1 v 1 defensive one in Bissaka and Dalot has done well but I feel is over rated going forward and average defensively. Not seen a great deal of him but with Chelsea signign the Lyon RB and Lvaramentos injury woes.....for me it has to be Vanderson, so exciting going forward and can imagine him linking up so well with our rw options

2 x CM - Lot of people mentioning a back up to Casemeiro, competition for Eriksen and competition for Fernandes, so maybe three. Personally I think Mainoo can come through as the back up to Casemeiro. I also feel Eriksen should be further forward and be THE competition to Fernandes. For me Hannibale and Fred should be the competition for a new signing in CM. DeJong, Bellingham are the obvious answers....both cost a lot and neither actually seem intent to come here. Rice is also expensive and though far better going forward than some give him credit for....I feel a more technical box to box player is needed. I also dont think we can spend £100m on a cm when we prob have to on a striker. Caqueret, Kmbempe Thuram are two very good young players at probably relatively reasonable fees in todays market that can add to us both defensively and offensively at the same time over our current options alongside Casemeiro. So I think we only need to sign one of thes types.

2 CF - Well a lot of this is dependant on the Greenwood decision, does he come back, with the time out, backlash and mental pressure....can he even come back anywhere near the same player? If he doesnt then though I dont rate him, somebod like Dembele on a free as a second striker isnt such a bad thing....just not a really old stop gap signign like we have done....or one without any quality liek Weighorst....I would prefer us to sign a cheaper SOuth AMerican as an excitign wil card...But we have to make a real quality CF signing if not a Kane, Omishen, Vlahovic....someone with that ability.

Whether we an manage this is another thing. I think we are looking at a £250-300m spend to get things right this summer, and that is being fairly frugal bar the CF signing and bottom line spend too. We havent spent near that before in a window, so maybe unrealistic....but a new board and a manager with a clear vision....maybe we may actualyl be realistic in terms of our sales this summer and raise more transfer fees from sales than we ever have before
 
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