One of "Bissoma / Carmavinga / Tchouameni (Monaco) / Brozovic / Ilaix Moriba" would improve our team.. We need a proper number-8
What do we still need? Aka The never ending story
- Thread starter Devil may care
- Start date
not sure what the question is, maybe if i think chelsea have a better squad than ours even though we finished ahead of them? i do think that
I just don't get how people think Chelsea's squad was already far better than ours?
There's no way any scenario that remains makes this a disappointing transfer window. Also unsure on how they have better squads. For this season alone, starting 11 wise between the top 4 teams imo (by role more than position I guess):
Allison > Ederson > Mendy > De Gea
TAA = Cancelo = Wan Bissaka > James/Azpi/Walker
Van Dijk > Varane > Maguire = Dias > The rest
Shaw > Robertson > Chilwell > The rest
Fabinho = Kante > Fernandinho > The rest
Jorginho = Thiago = Gundogan > Fred > The rest
De Bruyne > Bruno = Pogba > Mount/The rest
Salah > Sterling = Rashford > Werner
Sancho > Mane > Grealish = Mahrez > Havertz
Cavani = Lukaku > Firmino/Jota > City forwards
The deeper midfield is the only positions where other teams clearly outshine us and IMO if we had a Fabinho we'd have the best starting 11. Squad wise you compare the 5 main depth guys and we stack up well too, though City of course have the best here:
- Lindelof, Telles, McTominay/VdB, Greenwood, Martial
- Laporte, Rodri, Bernardo Silva, Foden, Jesus
- Christensen, James, Kovacic, Pulisic, Ziyech
- Konate, Matip, Henderson, Oxlade Chamberlain, Jota
its a good window but will still be disappointing if we fall further behind those two clubs in terms of depth, which looks likely.
if all the above is to make a case that our squad is as good as citys before this window started i won't reply, i could argue all day but we are starting too far apart. i think their squad was miles better than ours last season. chelsea i can understand the debate more, but they have the best midfield in the world and attacking players that can come off the bench.
I agree that 'starting eleven' comparison looks okay, but over 50 or 60 game season i dont really believe it makes sense to start any debate by discussing 'starting eleven' as a concept ahead of the squad
I think if we signed a pure out and out defensive midfielder we’d arguably have the strongest first choice 11 in the league whilst having plenty of depth and variety throughout.
We need an alternative to AWB but I don’t think that’ll happen til next summer when we’d likely go all in for Haaland, a pure defensive midfielder and the alternative right back unless of course Laird does enough on loan at Swansea to be considered the alternative to AWB.
We’re really not that far away from challenging on all fronts domestically and on our day we can beat anyone domestically or in Europe especially with Real and Barca nowhere near what they were even just a few years ago, I think the top four in England along with PSG and Bayern are now the strongest six teams in Europe.
We need an alternative to AWB but I don’t think that’ll happen til next summer when we’d likely go all in for Haaland, a pure defensive midfielder and the alternative right back unless of course Laird does enough on loan at Swansea to be considered the alternative to AWB.
We’re really not that far away from challenging on all fronts domestically and on our day we can beat anyone domestically or in Europe especially with Real and Barca nowhere near what they were even just a few years ago, I think the top four in England along with PSG and Bayern are now the strongest six teams in Europe.
The squad is very good. Over the next few windows, I can see the following activity being necessary:
- Replace Matic
- Replace Cavani
- Likely replace Pogba
- Possible back-up fullback if we give up on Dalot
maybe far better should be reserved for city, but i never really understood how people think we were better than chelsea player for player last season.
I personally think the gulf in class was between Ole and Lampard last season, with lamps just not getting enough from the squad. When Tuchel came in, chelsea looked incredible in the CL, but incredibly negative in the league, which again makes jorginho and kante, james and chilwell get credit (rightly so) but the attacking players not get much. They have absolutely ridiculous attacking talent though.
Havertz, Ziyech, Pulisic, Werner (all highly rated here before their moves), Mount, Hudson Odoi, Abraham
If you compared that to rashford, cavani, james, martial, bruno, donny, greenwood as a front four going into last season, most people would have sided with chelsea. Our lads had the better performances over the season, fairplay to them.
Tuchel might get more out of that this season, or they might remain quite negative, we will see.
Agreed, especially a DM on top priority to bring balance to the team
Yes, but we are not going into last season, we are going into this season.
Even with Tuchel coming in, Tammy, CHO, Werner, Pulisic, Werner didn't do much.
Compare that to Cavani, Bruno, Rashford, Pogba, Greenwood who have all done something, add to that Sancho and Martial.
We have absolute ridiculous talent up front too.
City's squad was obviously ahead in terms of depth, but they are weaker than they were last season. They don't have goal scorers in their team as things stand. They still have shit left backs. We've seen all the time how their motivation drops after winning a title. Fernandinho another year older as the key to holding their midfield together, while Rodri is very average. Yeah they have Grealish/Mahrez/Sterling/Foden/Bernardo/Ferran to pick from on the wings... but you can only really start 2 of them and then 1 as a false 9 which isn't a net win IMO. I'd rather take Uniteds group of attackers with Cavani, Martial, Greenwood, Rashford, Sancho, James for our front 3 positions ahead of what they have for those, any day. Ours is more balanced with creators and natural scorers and more varied, and far more pace in there compared to them. Sancho and Varane specifically are massive additions that fill big gaps in our squad and puts it right up there. Not a lot is needed always to make the step up, and we added 2 world class players in positions of need to perfectly compliment what we needed. Chelsea made 1 big signing with Lukaku who addressed a need, but Lukaku is still the same player that goes missing in big games (and again, their attacking group isn't on par with what we have both starting 11 wise or coming from the bench, neither is their defensive group). Chelsea have the midfield balance though which we lack. Grealish does feck all for City in terms of difference from last year, so their problems only got worse IMO. Kane would be a different story, but I'd still much rather they get Kane than Haaland (not even close for what they need IMO).
It's really not that big of a difference between the big 4 and it'll be an open title race. There's not a chance we fell behind, we made the biggest signings that addressed 2 gaping holes and that'll make a huge difference. Quality and depth wise, we're right up there. A DM would make it perfect, but we still closed the gap while City didn't improve and Chelsea had to catch up to us squad wise anyway (IMO). Liverpool also have a huge difference just recovering from an injury crisis so they'll be better again.
As I said, Tuchel has been so boring and negative in the league. Made the midfield and defence look incredible, but has mostly wasted their attacking talent.
Going into this season, my whole point was that it would be disappointing if we had a worse squad than city and chelsea and improved less than them - quite likely we will be outspent by both come the end of the window
Who cares if they outspend us? It doesn't matter, it depends how you improve.
People forget we improved defensively and attacking. Sancho is one of the hottest talents and Varane is a seasoned pro.
We don't need to outspend teams, its about improving the players we have too.
We have already added more goals and creativity with Sancho
We got Ramsey as a coach to help us with set pieces, which was our main problem.
The whole Camavinga link depends on how we plan to use him. He can play the DM role and I think could grow into it more. He can also be an attacking 8. If we plan to let him get forward then he doesn't solve the defensive frailty our midfield has and enable to move to to a 433. A double pivot could work with either Fred or Mctominay as he'd add the tackling aspect to that but also be able to break forward. As an out and out DM I don't think you can look past people like Ndidi and Brozovic for pure, defensive protection though.
Who have either improved more than us? City had a gap in the shape of a goalscorer, lost Aguero, got someone who doesn't score goals or improve their starting 11. They also have a LB gap and didn't strengthen that. Chelsea strengthened with Lukaku, but also still lack dynamism and individual quality in attack. They don't have a top player behind the striker and will struggle creatively, partially due to system but also lacking the game changers in the attack. Lukaku also hasn't changed much - he still goes missing in big games and is more of a hindrance. Liverpool didn't buy anyone but made a big difference with players returning.
United has BY FAR made the biggest difference. Sancho would walk into any team, but more than anything he is a gamechanger for us filling a big gap on the right and being a creator to balance out the scorers in attack. We literally signed one of the best young talents in the modern football era whose productivity as a young player in a big league has only been matched by Mbappe in the past 30 years. It's a game changing signing for us. And then we've signed essentially the Rio Ferdinand regen, one of the best centerbacks the world has seen this past decade, at a still very good age. Both Sancho and Varane would walk into any team in the league, or even the world.
Its just weird to claim that we haven't improved as much as others when we've improved far more than any team in the league, regardless on your opinion of our starting position. And it's kind of weird to basically ignore that United signed literally the 2 most perfect players for us in world football. If we could have hand picked 2 players to improve us at CB or in attack, it would be Varane and Sancho. Next step is the midfield and next summer will be all out for Haaland of course, but these were the 2 big ones this year.
Ideally Trippier and Saul/Camavinga/Neves/Rice/Ndidi but if it had to be only one of them then obviously it's a midfielder. I know people are talking up Mason as our long term no 9 but still expecting us to go all in for Haaland next summer, failing that could see a move for Martinez or maybe even Lewandowski but would be tough to get him out of Bayern.
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I genuinely think we’re waiting for Pogba to decide whether he’s staying before committing to a midfield signing. Unless I have it wrong and Ole sees him as a permanent left sided attacker.
Him being part (or not) of that midfield changes dramatically what is needed.
Him being part (or not) of that midfield changes dramatically what is needed.
Every time I hear that it's so frustrating because it should be hinging on selling Jesse, Andreas, Mata/Matic not Pogba
That would be a mistake. We should be looking to sign a monster defensive midfielder this summer, regardless.
The only way Pogba makes sense long-term is if we can find a midfield role for him in the same side as Bruno and the only way that happens is with a defensive superman alongside them.
Get one in and see if we can make it work - if we can, great, sign Pogba up (if he's willing). If we can't, Pogba leaves next summer and we replace him with a #8 with top ball progressing abilities, to play alongside our defensive beast in a two behind Bruno.
I don’t mean for funds, rather to decide what kind of midfielder we need.
Get what you mean now
Lewandowski and Tchouameni for a complete starting 11.
Lots of talk about Tchouameni, I can't comment as I haven't seen him play. But we do need a holding midfielder.
I think we will go for Haaland next season.
Call me greedy and it is mad in a window where we have signed Varane AND Sancho (though being half empty he was a signing for last season anyway).....but if there is no further action I would actually feel a little bit disappointed by the end of this window.
He may go on to sign a new contract and he may go on to have a great season but Im not super excited with the Pogba siuation and Im in utter disbelief that we havent so far managed to sell a single player. We have a few loans that for me are goin gto turn into a bigger list of players we are struggling to sell, we have a bloated squad with deadwood in it....but most of all, like a few I expect
With Cavani staying we had one priority not becoming so, but we had three if not four BIG priorities this summer signing wise and one or even two of them for me were in central midfield. Whatever people thoughts are on the likes of Pogba or McFred in the double pivot, does anybody have 100% confidence they are the answer to a title winning side game in game out? And this is a summer where there was a plethora of talented young central midfielders from players like Boubacar Kamara at around £10m an absolute steal to really good deals potentially for the likes of Locatelli, Camavinga, Tchouanemi Zakaria and then big money possibilities like Barella or Rice. Obviously all not attainable or value but there are just so many potential midfielders we could have targeted that I think improve us in both quality and different types of players this summer.
Failure to do so would be a costly mistake this season I feel. I dont think VDB will make a huge difference and as good as he looks I cant see Hannibal playing many games. McFred serve a purpose and will do well in certain scenarios but week in week out I am not convinced as neither am I that Pogba can play in a double pivot consitently to the right level defensively at least for sure.
I thougth we need to new midfielders personally this summer, failure to get one though is poor
He may go on to sign a new contract and he may go on to have a great season but Im not super excited with the Pogba siuation and Im in utter disbelief that we havent so far managed to sell a single player. We have a few loans that for me are goin gto turn into a bigger list of players we are struggling to sell, we have a bloated squad with deadwood in it....but most of all, like a few I expect
With Cavani staying we had one priority not becoming so, but we had three if not four BIG priorities this summer signing wise and one or even two of them for me were in central midfield. Whatever people thoughts are on the likes of Pogba or McFred in the double pivot, does anybody have 100% confidence they are the answer to a title winning side game in game out? And this is a summer where there was a plethora of talented young central midfielders from players like Boubacar Kamara at around £10m an absolute steal to really good deals potentially for the likes of Locatelli, Camavinga, Tchouanemi Zakaria and then big money possibilities like Barella or Rice. Obviously all not attainable or value but there are just so many potential midfielders we could have targeted that I think improve us in both quality and different types of players this summer.
Failure to do so would be a costly mistake this season I feel. I dont think VDB will make a huge difference and as good as he looks I cant see Hannibal playing many games. McFred serve a purpose and will do well in certain scenarios but week in week out I am not convinced as neither am I that Pogba can play in a double pivot consitently to the right level defensively at least for sure.
I thougth we need to new midfielders personally this summer, failure to get one though is poor
We haven't managed to sell a single player this summer, have we?
We need a new midfielder and probably a right back and we'll need a striker next summer and probably a Pogba replacement, but all of these deals will be hampered by our inability to shift deadwood like Jones, Lingard, Bailly, Pereira etc.
We need a new midfielder and probably a right back and we'll need a striker next summer and probably a Pogba replacement, but all of these deals will be hampered by our inability to shift deadwood like Jones, Lingard, Bailly, Pereira etc.
We'll probably need a new CB, too. Bailly won't be happy with being 4th choice. If de Gea or Henderson aren't convincing this season, which isn't all that unlikely, we are also looking at a new GK.
RW and DM/Deeplying playmaker. Sancho is best at LW even though he could probably do a job on the right.
For me we still need two central midfielders as its our weakest spot. Though dreadful today, I am not overly conerned at right back either in Bissaka as a starter or Dalot as back up short term anyway. I think we have made two good signings but I think this season we are still woefull short of quality, balance, different options and the right balance in central midfield.
Our squad is bloated and in the wrogn positions too with players we should have made more of an effort to move on this window permanently.
I feel we should have a strong side of 16 players withe the back ups in quality being a defender, central midfielder and the three attacking positions and its in cm we severly lack. I think we have too many squad players though, some taking up spots we could use yougnsters for. For me:
16 quality players
GK DeGea
LB Shaw
CB Maguire
CB Varane
RB Bissaka
CM ?
CM ?
LW Pogba
RW Sancho
AM Fendandes
CF Cavani
CB Lindelof
CM McTominay
LW Rashford
RW Amad
CF Greenwood
5 Squad PLayers
GK Heaton
LB Telles
RB Dalot
CB Bailly
CM VDB
4 Youngsters
Hannibal
SHoetire
Elanga
? - Should have kept one more from a loan
Sellable
Henderson
Jones
Williams
Tuanzabe
Fred
Mata
Lingard
Pereira
James
Matic
Martial
Chong
We should have easily managed to move on some of these players to fund two central midfield signings. There is £100-150m worth of poential sales there easily and how many of those players genuinely have a big future here or even an average future.....three or four tops for me.
We have failed in not choosing a number one and moving the other player on, we have failed in not moving JOnes on or/and selling Tuanzabe or Bailly, we only need one of the three, we have failed in not addressign our central midfield and movign on a few options there that arent right and we have failed not concretely sorting out Pogbas future.
So we are bloated few players on loan should sell, few ageing players in the squad should sell, a couple not consistently good enough to be in the side.
Its too late this window to address the vast majority of these problems, but despite two very good signings.....there is still time to semi address our midfield woes with one aquisition............sadly I dont think we will and that will be a big blow this season
Our squad is bloated and in the wrogn positions too with players we should have made more of an effort to move on this window permanently.
I feel we should have a strong side of 16 players withe the back ups in quality being a defender, central midfielder and the three attacking positions and its in cm we severly lack. I think we have too many squad players though, some taking up spots we could use yougnsters for. For me:
16 quality players
GK DeGea
LB Shaw
CB Maguire
CB Varane
RB Bissaka
CM ?
CM ?
LW Pogba
RW Sancho
AM Fendandes
CF Cavani
CB Lindelof
CM McTominay
LW Rashford
RW Amad
CF Greenwood
5 Squad PLayers
GK Heaton
LB Telles
RB Dalot
CB Bailly
CM VDB
4 Youngsters
Hannibal
SHoetire
Elanga
? - Should have kept one more from a loan
Sellable
Henderson
Jones
Williams
Tuanzabe
Fred
Mata
Lingard
Pereira
James
Matic
Martial
Chong
We should have easily managed to move on some of these players to fund two central midfield signings. There is £100-150m worth of poential sales there easily and how many of those players genuinely have a big future here or even an average future.....three or four tops for me.
We have failed in not choosing a number one and moving the other player on, we have failed in not moving JOnes on or/and selling Tuanzabe or Bailly, we only need one of the three, we have failed in not addressign our central midfield and movign on a few options there that arent right and we have failed not concretely sorting out Pogbas future.
So we are bloated few players on loan should sell, few ageing players in the squad should sell, a couple not consistently good enough to be in the side.
Its too late this window to address the vast majority of these problems, but despite two very good signings.....there is still time to semi address our midfield woes with one aquisition............sadly I dont think we will and that will be a big blow this season
I agree with pretty much all of this, on the bench yesterday we had Mata, Lingard and James just eating up space and Van de Beek who Ole obviously doesn't rate, then we had a walking corpse in midfield and amazingly Calamity Jones is still at the club, on top of that we haven't one of our keepers. We should have moved at least 4 of these on this window.
You're right that at this point it's too late to do mucn, if we can sell Lingard and perhaps even VdB and get in 1 midfielder it'll be a win. Hopefully next summer we just let Mata and Matic go as their contracts are up and I think Pogba will walk on a free. Then sell a keeper, Henderson is easiest, and I wouldn't be surprised if Martial's time is up when we replace Cavani, there should be £80M or so to get from those 2.
GK
De Gea
Heaton
CB
Maguire
Varane
Lindelof
Bailly
FB
Shaw
Telles
AWB
Dalot
CM
McTominay
Fred
Camavinga
New Midfielder
FW
Bruno
Sancho
Rashford
Haaland
Greenwood
Amad
Elanga
Before window shuts
DM
Next summer
ST
RB
CM
Yes I will admit some still have valid concerns about the goalkeeper situation as well but would put those above it
DM
Next summer
ST
RB
CM
Yes I will admit some still have valid concerns about the goalkeeper situation as well but would put those above it
We need a starting holding midfielder. Fred and McTominay are good squad options.
We need a top striker. Cavani doesn't play enough, Greenwood is too young and Martial is too Martial.
That's it imo*. Centre back, full back, attacking midfield and wings are sorted.
*at least among the playing staff
We need a top striker. Cavani doesn't play enough, Greenwood is too young and Martial is too Martial.
That's it imo*. Centre back, full back, attacking midfield and wings are sorted.
*at least among the playing staff
We need to bring in at least 1 midfielder before deadline or it will be a fight for top 4 place.
City, Chelsea, and Liverpool have better squads than we have, and it will prove over this season if we don't add and get rid of more deadwood.
City, Chelsea, and Liverpool have better squads than we have, and it will prove over this season if we don't add and get rid of more deadwood.
- 1 or ideally 2 CM. One as a Matic replacement that can dictate the tempo of a game and one box-to-box midfielder instead of McFred.
- A striker as a Cavani replacement
Number 1 priority must be getting rid off the deadwood though.
Ole should make a deal with the Glazers: No signings next summer if they release next year's transfer budget this summer.
Go all out. Get Neves and Camavinga.
Go all out. Get Neves and Camavinga.
Ridiculously it looks like we'll be starting another season with the same unbalanced mess in midfield. I know the Caf is obsessed with Haaland but I think midfield will finally be (partly) addressed next summer, I just get the feeling we'll go for an overpriced PL player who's not particularly good on the ball and hope Van de Beek grows into the deeper midfield role.
Leaving on a free - Pogba, Lingard, Cavani, Mata and Matic.
Sell - Bailly, Dan James and Dalot
In - Ndidi and squad forward
Not really much of an improvement when losing Pogba though.
then what do we do about a striker next summer? We are 100% reliant on Greenwood being ready that's a big gamble
If we don't fix our midfield what's the point in buying a striker? They'll just be standing up top waiting for a ball that never comes, cos our midfield can't get the ball from defence to attack.
What's the point of getting the ball forward if we struggle to finish.
if history has taught me anything (40 years and counting of being a united fan) we nearly always stop one player short of what we need in the transfer market and then address that gaping hole in the next window only for another new gaping hole to be left unfilled.
For this reason, I think we are done in the market. The squad is strong enough to be up there, but will, IMHO, fall about 12-15 points short of the title. A midfielder would not gurantee a title, but it would greatly increase the chances we could win it this season.
Putting my blind hatred to one side, I think Liverpool are favourites and Chelsea are 2nd favorites. Barring a further quality signing for ewither side, United and City will fight it out for 3rd and 4th.
For this reason, I think we are done in the market. The squad is strong enough to be up there, but will, IMHO, fall about 12-15 points short of the title. A midfielder would not gurantee a title, but it would greatly increase the chances we could win it this season.
Putting my blind hatred to one side, I think Liverpool are favourites and Chelsea are 2nd favorites. Barring a further quality signing for ewither side, United and City will fight it out for 3rd and 4th.
If Pogba doesn't sign a new contract, we will be in bigger trouble next season.
Pogba, and Cavani off, so will need huge funds to replace them.
This should be prepared Now.
Pogba, and Cavani off, so will need huge funds to replace them.
This should be prepared Now.