What did Hillary do wrong and what's next for her?

What would him, or Rudy, win by going after her now? Nothing.

Ludicrous idea, that was just Trump being Trump in the debate to win votes. He'll just be pals with her again. Don't think any politician - and Trump is now one - wants to go that deep in the game. They have more in common by living that life than what sets them apart.
 
Dwazza said:
In an election campaign voters can be quite skeptical of allegations. The dirt on Hillary was acknowledged as fact, even by Hillary herself!
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If the allegations were the other way round it wouldn't make a difference. The fact that he's supposedly some outsider, anti-establishment darling means he's given a free pass by his supporters, regardless of what he's done or alleged to have done.

Trump even said it himself:

 
She allowed a candidate who has said some awful things about a vast number of different groups in the country to get away easily with what he'd said, because she had some damaged skeletons in her own closet.

The fact she literally had the FBI investigating her emails during the process was always something with potential for disaster, and for however successful he was as a President Bill Clinton's overbearing presence was damaging because of his reputation as a sleazebag.

There's nothing much that stood out about her: compared to Obama and Bill she's an average, if not quite poor, public speaker, and even in the debates she relied more on Trump losing than on her winning. Like others have said there was very little to define her campaign and thus it was quite bland.
 
Kaos said:
If the allegations were the other way round it wouldn't make a difference. The fact that he's supposedly some outsider, anti-establishment darling means he's given a free pass by his supporters, regardless of what he's done or alleged to have done.

Trump even said it himself:

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Possibly. He does seem to have an innate ability to relate to people that Hillary lacks.
 
In the debates I saw, instead of ignoring Trumps ridiculous comments and focusing on her policies, Hillary just played up to his stupid comments and was bickering with him in a war of words she would always lose. I reckon Kanye West will be the next president...
 
Trump schooled her. i don't think he will be the loose cannon that the outside world expects.
 
I'd be lying if I said that I knew all along what mistakes Hillary made. I genuinely thought this was a sure thing for her so I learned my lesson.
 
sammsky1 said:
In my opinion, Hilary constantly answered the wrong question.

- Very soon into her campaign she was preaching to the already converted
- GOP voters did not care enough for her allegations that Trump was 'not fit for the office'
- Older white men did not feel like she knew what they wanted

I find it galling that I can quickly recall many Trump policies and claims but dont really know what Hilary was going to do if she won office.

Im furious at her. Absolutely furious. She was supposedly the most experienced ever politician to run for office, had personal experience of 3 previous presidential campaigns and was up against the most unpopular ever GOP candidate in living memory. She had the vast majority of US and international media tactcily or openly supporting her and a vast adverting budget far superior to Trump.

And she blew it. She is as much to blame for what we get in the next 4 years as Trump is.
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This is utterly ridiculous. Blame Al Gore for Iraq while you're at it.
 
What did she get wrong? Besides being a deceiving, lying, crooked, unethical, entitled cnut? I guess not much.

Not sure about here next move, but it shouldn't be any more than 8-10 years.
 
She might have substance but she is an awkward public speaker. Trump on the other hand, for all his faults, is a great salesman - he keeps it simple and realises that, in the speeded up world of multimedia platforms, memorabke soundbites are more important than consistency of message or veracity. Let's face it, we could all recall 10 things Trump said this campaign whereas I'd struggle to name more than one for Hilary (the tweet/nuclear button jibe at one of the debates). Also, a lot of people simply don't like her, rightly or wrongly.

As for what's next, he won't go after her - it was all electioneering BS and they mix in the same circles at the end of the day. She should put her feet up after two gruelling and unsuccessful campaigns spliced by living on a plane for several years as secretary of state.
 
She never once came across as anything other than pre-prepared and fake to me. Purely and simply a mouthpiece and not a very good one for her 'friends' on Wall Street/in the background of power.

She's a complete charisma vacuum and still manages to be immensely dislikable and untrustworthy at the same time.

Trump is just your common obnoxious cnut in comparison.
 
She failed to ensure people know how to spell her name. judging by the OP.
 
sammsky1 said:
ha! just reinforces my OP!
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The fecking so-called high-flying junior on our sister title kept spelling her name wrong today and given I was in from 6:45am, I wanted to pour boiling lemsip over his face.
 
sammsky1 said:
In my opinion, Hilary constantly answered the wrong question.

- Very soon into her campaign she was preaching to the already converted
- GOP voters did not care enough for her allegations that Trump was 'not fit for the office'
- Older white men did not feel like she knew what they wanted

I find it galling that I can quickly recall many Trump policies and claims but dont really know what Hilary was going to do if she won office.

Im furious at her. Absolutely furious. She was supposedly the most experienced ever politician to run for office, had personal experience of 3 previous presidential campaigns and was up against the most unpopular ever GOP candidate in living memory. She had the vast majority of US and international media tactcily or openly supporting her and a vast adverting budget far superior to Trump.

And she blew it. She is as much to blame for what we get in the next 4 years as Trump is.
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She never wanted to run for President. She was coaxed into it by those around her.
 
sammsky1 said:
In my opinion, Hilary constantly answered the wrong question.

- Very soon into her campaign she was preaching to the already converted
- GOP voters did not care enough for her allegations that Trump was 'not fit for the office'
- Older white men did not feel like she knew what they wanted

I find it galling that I can quickly recall many Trump policies and claims but dont really know what Hilary was going to do if she won office.

Im furious at her. Absolutely furious. She was supposedly the most experienced ever politician to run for office, had personal experience of 3 previous presidential campaigns and was up against the most unpopular ever GOP candidate in living memory. She had the vast majority of US and international media tactcily or openly supporting her and a vast adverting budget far superior to Trump.

And she blew it. She is as much to blame for what we get in the next 4 years as Trump is.
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:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
Raoul said:
She never wanted to run for President. She was coaxed into it by those around her.
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And she didn't have to say yes. Could've stepped back if she wanted to and let someone else with less baggage take up the mantle.
 
Raoul said:
She never wanted to run for President. She was coaxed into it by those around her.
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Ive read that but struggle to believe its true. She was game 8 years ago and had a blast as SoS. Why would she not got fat it, if she was still healthy and able?

If its true, its possibly why she lost then? Her heart was not truly in it as she had no big idea. Thats how she came across. insipid and unloved.
 
She was never the right candidate, but going down the celebrity endorsement route was, on reflection, such a huge mistake.

Celebrities live a life that doesn't need to be concerned with the goings on of American politics. They can just up and leave whenever they like if push comes to shove,whilst your average family deals with the consequences of policy.

Every time I saw her surrounded by a celeb or saw a video of one endorsing her on Facebook, I cringed, badly, so I can't imagine what your lower class, minimum wage worker actually living in America was thinking.

Trumps final message was one that the average person can relate to, and Hilary brought in people that 99.99% of the world can't relate to.

Trumps not qualified to be commander in chief. I'm not qualified to build a bridge. Surround me with 50 structural engineers and I bet I can end up building you one with my name on it though. Let's hope trump chooses his closest advisors wisely and that it won't be as bad as many people fear.

Ultimately , your average person will do the same routine for the next 4 years that they did for the last 4. Wake up, breakfast, work, lunch, work, dinner, family / personal time, bed, repeat. Why Hilary didn't try to appeal more to those average people I just don't know.
 
sammsky1 said:
Ive read that but struggle to believe its true. She was game 8 years ago and had a blast as SoS. Why would she not got fat it, if she was still healthy and able?

If its true, its possibly why she lost then? Her heart was not truly in it as she had no big idea. Thats how she came across. insipid and unloved.
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A friend of mine who worked for her told me this in 2012. Apparently she was just tired and wanted to retire. At the time I was curious to see whether or not she would run (I thought she would), but was told she had no interest at the time.

Oh and this....

 
I am generally not a fan of Clinton as a politician but, I am starting to think she did not much wrong here. She ran an organized campaign, only a had a few gaffes, was able to handle the few controversies sent her way. Let us not rewrite history because Trump somehow pulled this off. He shot himself in the foot about 100 times, there was times during the campaign where there was basically a scandal breaking a day and his campaign was in constant turmoil.
 
DavidG said:
She was never the right candidate, but going down the celebrity endorsement route was, on reflection, such a huge mistake.

Celebrities live a life that doesn't need to be concerned with the goings on of American politics. They can just up and leave whenever they like if push comes to shove,whilst your average family deals with the consequences of policy.

Every time I saw her surrounded by a celeb or saw a video of one endorsing her on Facebook, I cringed, badly, so I can't imagine what your lower class, minimum wage worker actually living in America was thinking.

Trumps final message was one that the average person can relate to, and Hilary brought in people that 99.99% of the world can't relate to.

Trumps not qualified to be commander in chief. I'm not qualified to build a bridge. Surround me with 50 structural engineers and I bet I can end up building you one with my name on it though. Let's hope trump chooses his closest advisors wisely and that it won't be as bad as many people fear.

Ultimately , your average person will do the same routine for the next 4 years that they did for the last 4. Wake up, breakfast, work, lunch, work, dinner, family / personal time, bed, repeat. Why Hilary didn't try to appeal more to those average people I just don't know.
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Celebrity thing is a fair point. I think it can work it certain contexts but as you say can also appear alienating and perhaps even condescending to some.

As you say, most of them don't need to deal with the consequences - it's nice of them to care and try to use their sway for some good, of course, but they won't be the ones who suffer from a Trump Presidency. Same with Hilary, too...in her concession speech she sounded fairly disappointed, yeah, but a lot of voters out there will probably be quite angry since she'll be able to slip back into her cosy lifestyle with no consequence whatsoever...provided Trump doesn't arrest her.:lol:
 
Maybe she is too much female to attract male voters - and acts too less female to attract the female majority?
 
The more I think on it, the more I'm struggling to buy into the narrative that Hilary was just up against a tidal wave of support for Trump, and that everyone would've struggled against him.

Polling that came out last night showed remarkably high approval for Obama, especially impressive after being in office for eight years and almost paradoxical in the context of what came afterwards. It's a general sentiment that seems to be prevailing, too - that the US is only realising how lucky they were to have Obama and will view him very positively in hindsight.

Based on that, I think a good Dem candidate would've won, and probably done so quite comfortably. Sanders is a different case because of the socialist candidate and independent background but the major argument I've seen many, many people use in regards to this election was how shite both candidates were. The narrative that both were as bad as each other was a frustrating one, but it was a narrative that persisted nonetheless and Sanders wouldn't have been able to be tagged in the same light.

Even if it wasn't him though, I reckon a decent, strong Democrat candidate with a clean background and a likable personality would've won. Clinton's biggest problem by far was that she ultimately lost the swing states - in a number she only needed a small swing and a better candidate than her would have surely been able to achieve that.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
I am generally not a fan of Clinton as a politician but, I am starting to think she did not much wrong here. She ran an organized campaign, only a had a few gaffes, was able to handle the few controversies sent her way. Let us not rewrite history because Trump somehow pulled this off. He shot himself in the foot about 100 times, there was times during the campaign where there was basically a scandal breaking a day and his campaign was in constant turmoil.
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Her only wrong was to think she could have won it.
 
Run again in 4yrs after Trump runs the economy to the ground with his tax cuts?
 
And just looking at the final numbers just like with the Republican primaries it looks less impressive for Trump. Trump has won the election through voter apathy not passion.
 
Neutral said:
No - that was her problem. She didn't preach enough to her flock and some of them ended up going astray :lol:

She took for granted the already converted. She didn't visit Wisconsin once during the presidential run (she did during the primaries).
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This was quite a shock for me, I always assumed presidential candidates would visit every single state at least once, even the likes of Hawaii, Alaska and Montana.
 
DavidG said:
She was never the right candidate, but going down the celebrity endorsement route was, on reflection, such a huge mistake.

Celebrities live a life that doesn't need to be concerned with the goings on of American politics. They can just up and leave whenever they like if push comes to shove,whilst your average family deals with the consequences of policy.

Every time I saw her surrounded by a celeb or saw a video of one endorsing her on Facebook, I cringed, badly, so I can't imagine what your lower class, minimum wage worker actually living in America was thinking.

Trumps final message was one that the average person can relate to, and Hilary brought in people that 99.99% of the world can't relate to.
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Good post. Celebrity endorsements don't work at all. When millions of people in the US are struggling to find jobs and have seen wages stagnate for decades, why should they listen to millionaire celebrities who can't relate to them at all? Jay Z and Katy Perry don't know what it's like to be crushed by rising costs of living and to struggle to pay for childcare and healthcare. Celebrity endorsements drive people away from supporting those candidates, especially in an anti-establishment environment.

Her campaign was always about how her opponent was a bad person. It was never about her own policies and what she stood for, because she actually stood for nothing. She was a corporate stooge and worked for the lobbyists and special interests that back her. When the ordinary person in the electorate has seen wages stagnate for decades, that doesn't play well.
 
The Democrats should have given the nomination to Bernie. Clinton was damaged goods from the start while Bernie had a real chance of winning against Trump.
 
Kaos said:
Nope, she's finished. The US wont touch another Clinton for a while.
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One would think so, but she's still closer to the Dem establishment than anyone alive, maybe Chelsea will run in 2020. ;)
 
Dumat12 said:
The Democrats should have given the nomination to Bernie. Clinton was damaged goods from the start while Bernie had a real chance of winning against Trump.
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I doubt Bernie would have done better with them hammering him as the socialist from day 1. Also he wouldn't have raised anywhere as much as Hillary.
 
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