What decisions has ShinjiNinja got right since joining RedCafe?
What decisions has Ten Hag got right since joining?
- Thread starter NinjaFletch
- Start date
His approach to preseason and the tactical ideas he wants to put in place are the biggest things. The recruitment shouldn’t be down to him, the club should be offering support.
Does anyone remember Pep's first year in charge of City. They well and truly under performed that season. There were talks he was first to be sacked that season. He mad much better players at his disposal than ETH did. He outed their best player of previous seasons in Yaya Toure, got rid of the undroppable Joe Hart for even worse option in Bravo.
A window or two of transfers to clear out and bring his own in, now they are close to being unstoppable. Yeah, Europe he has dissapointed. But unless a manager like ETH can clear the useless dross he has been left with and get the players he needs, we can't just keep sacking managers. We are the modern day Sunderland, over spending on wastes of space and they then sack the managers.
ETH is not a quick fix, but a project. He needs to be back financially because no manager can get these idiots playing football. Bruno is the biggest culprit, constantly breaking down attacks and slowing the game down with terrible choices.
Unless ETH is back a huge amount of money in the space of 2 windows, we are in this for the long haul, he gets sacked? We just let another club benefit from his vision. Pep couldnt come to United and work miracles, otherwise, City wouldnt have spent what they have.
A window or two of transfers to clear out and bring his own in, now they are close to being unstoppable. Yeah, Europe he has dissapointed. But unless a manager like ETH can clear the useless dross he has been left with and get the players he needs, we can't just keep sacking managers. We are the modern day Sunderland, over spending on wastes of space and they then sack the managers.
ETH is not a quick fix, but a project. He needs to be back financially because no manager can get these idiots playing football. Bruno is the biggest culprit, constantly breaking down attacks and slowing the game down with terrible choices.
Unless ETH is back a huge amount of money in the space of 2 windows, we are in this for the long haul, he gets sacked? We just let another club benefit from his vision. Pep couldnt come to United and work miracles, otherwise, City wouldnt have spent what they have.
That's a very positive spin on Ten Hag and I admire your optimistic approach. I'm just not sure that chimes with what we've heard from Ten Hag on these issues and what reliable United journos have said about why we've targeted the players we have or given the players the chances we have.
Still, I'm relatively happy to give him a pass if Brighton and Brentford to prove a turning point in Ten Hag's assessment of how bad things are - it at least suggests a man capable of learning from his mistakes. I just think it's a source of deep frustration that we've wasted another summer when I think pretty much everyone, except from apparently Ten Hag himself, had identified these issues back in February.
Agreed, but by all accounts Ten Hag fought for greater control on this issue and demanded his own players over those suggested by the club.
Whether that's right or wrong would rely on greater knowledge of who the club was suggesting than we have, but if he's insisting on involving himself in this area he can't also stand aloof of the failures in this area. With responsibility comes accountability.
Look at our previous managers: Moyes, Van Gaal, Jose, Ole. They are not the type of managers or head coach we should be taking in. ETH is the first “right “ head coach we brought in. Young-ish and super talented. If this doesn’t work, we should take in similar type of manager. I believe we are starting to make the right decisions.
Patience, guys. We are in a huge mess. It will take a few seasons at least to be truly competitive again. The club structure is already starting to change. Perhaps the ownership too (we can only hope).
Patience, guys. We are in a huge mess. It will take a few seasons at least to be truly competitive again. The club structure is already starting to change. Perhaps the ownership too (we can only hope).
Three posters on Redcafe want to see the team play a certain way. Three other posters want to see something else. Most all of them don't want to see us lose the 1st 3 games of the season badly because the manager didn't do any work before the season started. Shades of Moyes going on vacation.
That was clearly a club brief to push blame back onto the manager. I’d hope that by now our fans could see that it’s the incompetence above him that’s the biggest issue.
But what do you want then mate? Shall we smash 50 yard balls upto Ronaldo for 90 minutes? Wanna play 5 at the back? ETH started early and in pre season we looked decent.
This is the basics of football that we aren’t doing, to start our work rate is rock bottom of the league. The stats show that we run less, win less tackles, less sprints you name it. Ralf came in last season and they wouldn’t adapt to his style so he changed and guess what they didn’t adapt to that either.
We have players in that team good enough to pass the ball but we can hardly put 3 passes together.
Well he's 52 and his CV is essentially dominating a league with the best resourced best run club in the league.
I don't mean to diminish that job, he clearly did excellently in that field, but I don't think it's a CV that immediately screams 'capable of turning round United', which is why I think it's important to be wary and judge him on the merits of the decisions he makes here.
After all, I've spent 9 years backing the manager and defending decisions that I thought were wrong at the time out of a mistaken belief that giving these people patience to get their ideas across would lead us on the right path. Each time I was wrong.
There's a significant hostility to this question, I think, because a) people know I'm right that Ten Hag has made some significant missteps so far and b) a new manager is literally the only source of optimism at the club right now. Without that, there's nothing. But I don't think it's in anyway an issue to remain cautious of the next man tasked with fixing what may be unfixable until he proves that he can do it.
Of course, it was a club brief and of course the issues lie above him. You're arguing points that aren't in doubt. What I'm suggesting is we have no idea whether that club brief reflected a reality of an improved scouting network or not because Ten Hag demanded and was given control of the process. I think the club allowing that to happen is a significant misstep, but I can't also then absolve Ten Hag of blame. He asked for and was given control and therefore can't be blameless in the ensuing clusterfeck. Perhaps this window is still better than the alternatives of letting the club sign targets it had identified, but we're firmly in the realm of counterfactual here and simply can't know whether that's true or not.
Me too but to show the true state of things and to put pressure on the regime to get some transfers done it's probably best to show the true state of things. Ralf was spot on this club needs a open heart surgery and 10 players in.
You are ignoring his time at Utrecht, when he successfully turned a club around that was a disaster. Though obviously on a far lower scale than United, but nonetheless I think it's important as United is much closer to Utrecht than to Ajax at the moment (in comparison to the rest of their leagues).
Well he got one crucial decision wrong and that's joining this mess of a club. It'll ruin his reputation and if results don't improve until say October, I'd leave if I was him. Martinez would probably feel like a fool though 
You're right, I am, because there's a significant number of managers who have achieved similar (in fact, I think every single one of Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho, and Solskjaer could lay claim to similar arguments). But hopefully you're right and those skills are transferable, because boy do we need them.
Even if a mopbucket found itself in the dugout, the team should automatically be able to play significantly better than this.
This is ALL on the players. Stupid highlight reel mistakes no Manchester United calibre player should make more than once during their entire careee have become the norm.
Benching Raphael Varane is pretty shocking I must say. At least play players who are proven champions when the team is struggling.
I dont think Ten Hag got anything right yesterday but its way too early to conclude anything, he has proven he is an excellent manager before coming here
This is ALL on the players. Stupid highlight reel mistakes no Manchester United calibre player should make more than once during their entire careee have become the norm.
Benching Raphael Varane is pretty shocking I must say. At least play players who are proven champions when the team is struggling.
I dont think Ten Hag got anything right yesterday but its way too early to conclude anything, he has proven he is an excellent manager before coming here
Sadly I actually don't think it is. It looks like he got a lot of control over transfer targets etc, so essentially fulfilling the role of a DoF too, additional to being the head coach. While that can work on a small scale, I don't think it can work well on PL level and I do think that United just missed the timing (again) to really get a competent structure of people who oversee general direction, scouting and recruiting on a level needed for a PL top club.
Cringeworthy OP. Disgraceful thread.
This is all on the players.
This is all on the players.
So you're of the opinion that a significant failure of Ten Hag is giving those players a clean slate and trusting them to perform to a high standard?
Because for a cringe worthy, disgraceful thread you do sure seem to agree with the central contention running though the heart of it.
This is what I understand the OP to be:
“Not gonna lie, I'm pessimistic as feck that this season's a writr off already and Ten Hag is massively out of his depth. So let's go, what has he got right, and what can we be optimistic about that he's going to put us on the right path.”
The individuals responsible for the colossal failure yesterday are the players, player the new manager inherited. There is no fukking way we can argue right now “that ETH is out of his depth”.
And after two replies to the thread and two requests for you to build a positive case for him you're still refusing or unable to list positives to allay those fears.
The positives are apparently so obvious to you that you're using emotive language to try and paint the alternative as absurd, so as this question is so crystal clear in your mind perhaps you could deign us all with your insight on the topic and we can close the thread and have a giggle about how absurd a thought it is to question Ten Hag so far.
I’m entirely in ETH camp.
it’s the players I can’t forgive until they show a decorum of effort and skill.
the time I jump from the ETH camp is when he’s put his stamp on the team and we continue to fail.
it’s the players I can’t forgive until they show a decorum of effort and skill.
the time I jump from the ETH camp is when he’s put his stamp on the team and we continue to fail.
Right now I want Ten Hag, God King of managers, to figure out what to do. Actually, I wanted him to figure out what to do last spring and implement his plan this summer. How we played against minnows in a friendly doesn't matter quite so much, unless you think that the players are purposefully throwing games?
He’s in a no win situation. Klopp refused to spend money until he got the right target. Which seems sensible.
Similarly, we don’t want to bloat our squad with even more players we aren’t entirely convinced by…with Rabiot Arnautovic Gakpo being linked.
I’m happy to wait for primary targets…even if it takes 12 months. I’d rather the right guys coming I
Fecking hell one of those are you? ETH out after 2 games?
The players will only get used to a system through training and experience. Let’s agree that Pep and Klopp are the best 2 managers right now, do you think if Pep managed this lot against Liverpool we‘d suddenly be playing Tiki Taka football?
The squad needed ripping up and starting a fresh but what have we done? sold one player (Pereira) all summer and not deliver the players the manager wanted.
But it's the 'right target' that's in question. There's a fairly well known story that Julien Brandt was Klopp's preference and was unobtainable.
The club identified Salah and forced him onto Klopp and the rest is history. We've given Ten Hag significantly more control that that and it's led to an endless pursuit of De Jong, which even if a miracle happens and he still joins, has left as completely unready for the start of the season.
curious. What do you want from ETH. Because if it’s possession based, build from back, progressive football a’la Citeh and Liverpool, that too is what he is trying to do…see him blasting DeGea pre season for kicking long. DeGea now (as per Brentford) regardless of situation is trying to play from back…but failing.
he’ll be looking to see who can and can’t adapt to his desired tactics. The failure will come if players repeatedly fail but continue at the club.
2 games in and nobody can judge him.
he also, for me has the personality to handle being our manager. Moyes and Ole were rabbit in headlights. Giggs had the personality and charisma equal to wooden chair. Mourinho was too self obsessed. He feels like a man that people want to work for…based on what you see/hear during pre season.
its far too early to judge him and people losing their mind over Martinez need to switch off the analysis at full time. Despite the goal yday hes been far from our worst player. Even for the goal there were 3 individual errors before it gets to himand he was left exposed trying to get back to the goal line and challenge for the header
Perhaps stupid of me…but I think there’s still a decent chance of us getting Frenkie over the line. this saga is a mess mostly down to the additional 17m unpaid wages that both clubs will be seeing who bottles it first.
I could appoint you manager of Manchester United and you'd tell me you wanted that too, and I'd have no faith that you knew how to it.
The point (and I thank you for your points r.e. personality) is to discuss what we've seen from Ten Hag in his admittedly short time here so far to suggest he's making good decisions towards that goal because so far I see a lot of mistakes, missteps and misjudgments and precious little to his credit.
That doesn't mean I think he'll fail (actually, I think he will but that's because of the Glazers) but whether he deserves any criticism for the mess of this summer.
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Way to early for this.
We all know Ajax is great 
But the Premier League is something else.
He need to stop chasing (ex)Eredivisie players like he's doing now.
But the Premier League is something else.He need to stop chasing (ex)Eredivisie players like he's doing now.
Unbelievable. Yeah, let’s throw the manager under the bus because he inherited such a brilliant squad he’s clearly unfit for the job.
Well then the sample size is just too small to really provide too much in the positive column. He just hasn’t been here long enough. That can’t go against him though either.
positives for me are
the style he looks to be trying to implement
The subtle shift from 4231 to 433
The character capable of managing this club
The removal of McFred vs Brighton
Dropping McT entirely v Brentford
The removal of Shaw v Brentford
perhaps like you I’m not enjoying the perseverance with (mostly but there are others) Bruno and Rashford
And on the third attempt, still nothing. It must be frustrating to feel so strongly about a topic, but not able to express your thoughts.
Absolutely no idea why you're bothering to reply to a thread when you have absolutely nothing to contribute, but as you have the time to reply but not to outline decisions you think Ten Hag has got right I'll take it you're struggling to think of them too
Anyone pointing at ETH as the main reason (or one of them) for where we are now, quite frankly is mental. Sure he has got stuff wrong, but this mess is the culmination of 10 years of complete mismanagement, and ETH will end up paying the price for it.
Starting the first 2 games of the season and 9 of the players are the same ones who completely failed last year. Replacing 9 players who have left with 3 new ones, when we already needed a raft of new players. This window has been a disgrace, and quite frankly until we shift most of the starting players nothing will seriously change. We are a fecking shambles.
Starting the first 2 games of the season and 9 of the players are the same ones who completely failed last year. Replacing 9 players who have left with 3 new ones, when we already needed a raft of new players. This window has been a disgrace, and quite frankly until we shift most of the starting players nothing will seriously change. We are a fecking shambles.
I'll say nice things about ETH when results warrant it. So far, I'm getting a Moyes-like deer-in-the-headlight vibe from him.
But we know that Ten Hag has control of sign off on players and targets and identifying targets, so a pretty big area of concern you highlight is one he directly has control over.
That's an issue with him when (as you rightly say) it's been a disaster.
I don't think anyone here is saying he's the main reason for anything, but I do think the suggestion he has no blame at all for what has happened since he's started isn't rooted in reality.
But the players have been like this now for years, take away that freak 2nd place during the empty stadium phase of Covid and we’ve been absolutely shit.
The manager will do nothing with this lot, he may as well walk now. The players aren’t even prepared to run so you think they’re listening to orders on positioning, passing etc.
What needed to happen this summer hasn’t happened, we needed to sell about 5 players and bring 6-7 in but it hasn’t happened so we’re left with a manager who wants to play a passing game with players who aren‘t capable.
My manager.
Who?
i think he’s got one major thing right. something that fans and pundits alike have overlooked. we’re deliberately tanking the first few games of the season. what right-minded manager is picking rashford, sancho, varane, fernandes et al for a world cup on these showings? we’re going have the best part of 8 weeks where we can train hard, learn erikball and rest up. all the while, the likes of nunez, silva etc will be burning energy in qatar, before serving lifetime jail sentences for hugging teammates after scoring a goal. this will allow us to destroy teams from november onwards, culminating in a domestic treble.