The only chance you've got of Starmer talking about Brexit is if one of the people who dress him brings it up.
Westminster Politics 2024-2029
- Thread starter Pexbo
- Start date
It will be good to see what they can accomplish with this.
The funny thing is that Starmer seems to manage to ruffle the feathers of the Brexit media and getting accused of all sorts of betrayal when he hasn't actually done anything.
And his loyal followers also think he has done something to help the UK which he hasn't.
It's a mad world. He's due to meet Macron as well.
But the Germans have huge influence within the EU, if they like what they hear then they'll use it to get the rest inline, might come to nothing but it's defintely worth trying.
Please stop!
Customs Union, Single Market !!!!! - it's back to the damned cherry picking of 2017 and the stupidity of Labour in the 2019 election.
I do agree with you on that. Germany seems willing to enter into bilateral agreements with the UK, providing that does not cut across the EU. And the same with France.
Paul has his own opinion on Starmer and that is fine. I don't think Starmer is quite as stupid and he is right to speak with the largest 2 economies in the EU if he feels it could be beneficial.
So you think that everything is set in stone for ever, nothing is worth discussing?
There are bilateral agreements - for example the UK pay France £x million to patrol the coastline.
Neither Germany nor France can do bilateral trade deals. Eight years of this and the nonsense is still going on.
Starmer even talked about student exchanges rather than joining this Youth scheme proposed by the EU.
Does he realise that this already exists. My grandson's school has an exchange arrangement with a school in Nantwich.
He's speaking with Macron next.
Germany and France are the ones you need to get anywhere, get them on board then you've won half the battle. It's never going back to what it was in our lifetimes but there must be areas of common interest whre some agreements can be made.
If Starmer wants to join the Customs Union and Single Market and cancels any deals made since the Uk left, abide by EU regulations , including the ECJ and many more things, then of course twenty or thirty years of discussions should result in something.
Who said anything about bilateral trade agreements? I certainly didn't
I didn't say you did?
Starmer says:
He told the press conference:
Starmer says: (Illegal migration as well)
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You really don't like Starmer do you!
So what is so wrong with any of that.
We all know that the Brexit deal was a piece of sh1t.
We know that Brexit has been exactly what we thought...a disaster.
Starmer is the first UK politician to at least attempt to improve the relationship with our European friends.
Maybe it will come to nothing. But from everything I have read, the German leather Scholz has said that he is very keen to have the agreement concluded in 6 months.
So let's see what the outcome of that and discussions with President Macron end up with.
I don't particularly like any politician.
They get rid of the Tories and they replace them by this fool. He's incompetent.
It's the letdown really, hoping for someone with brains and competence to repair the damage. But no.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/joint-declaration-on-deepening-and-enhancing-uk-germany-relations
Here's the joint statement:
Here's the joint statement:
Joint declaration between Prime Minister Keir Starmer and Chancellor Scholz on deepening and enhancing UK-Germany relations.
Germany and the United Kingdom share a strong friendship, common values and mutual interests. We are close partners in Europe and internationally as well as long-standing Allies in NATO. Today, given the common challenges our two countries face, we are convinced that the time has come to take our bilateral relations to the next level.
To this end, we are launching work on a bilateral cooperation treaty and will hold government-to-government consultations to sign it by early next year. This treaty will reflect our status as the closest of partners in Europe, with the strongest possible bilateral cooperation on the issues that matter most to our populations. It shall reflect the rich ties between our two countries, peoples and governments across the breadth of our bilateral relationship, in full accordance with Germany’s membership of the EU, and the UK’s relationship with the EU.
Our joint priorities include foreign policy cooperation in peace and security, growing our economies, industrial transformation, law enforcement cooperation and action to tackle irregular migration, increased people-to-people contacts, youth and education, energy security, climate and nature policy, development policy, transport and infrastructure as well as technology, research and innovation.
Germany and the UK are determined to defend and promote peace and security in Europe. As leading European Allies in NATO, we will work together with our Allies and partners to ensure that our ability to deter and defend in the Euro-Atlantic area remains credible at all times and against any possible threats or adversaries. We are committed to deterring a more aggressive Russia, sustaining our support to Ukraine and boosting European defence.
Our Foreign Ministries will coordinate work to negotiate the bilateral treaty, in close consultation with the German Federal Chancellery and the Prime Minister’s Office/Cabinet Office and the respective ministries.
In this context we welcome the work that is already being conducted at pace between by our Defence Ministers on a new agreement on defence to strengthen the links between our defence communities, industries and armed forces, and which act as a key pillar of the forthcoming bilateral cooperation treaty.
I repeat... so what is wrong with any of that.
It's not the Brexit deal - this is Brexit. What is now is what was voted for. Starmer doesn't want to reverse it. There's another five years of worse to come starting with the EES in November.
As I said, the "broken" relationship is only in the heads of UK politicians and the media.
The Uk can sell what it likes to Germany or France or any other EU country provided that it abides by the laws of the EU and completes all the bureaucracy associated with not being in the same Customs Union.
As Starmer thought in 2019 he thought he could have the same benefits inside and outside the EU and apparently still does.
The defence aspect is covered by the EU countries and the UK being in NATO. Of course Germany wants to have cordial relationships with the UK as will France or anyone else.
What do you expect to happen with this "treaty"?
I agree with all of it, personally. There is a lot that can be done to improve relations and outcomes for both parties.
I expect it to be in line with the joint statement.
Not a lot then.
Paul. If you think that the broken relationship is only in the minds of the UK, then clearly Scholz doesn't agree with you.
As Macron said last year, France will always be friends of the UK , no matter which politicians are in charge.
No offence bud, but I’ll back the fella with decades of legal experience and access to the totality of government, along with the phone number of world leaders… over a shouty man on the internet that seems to think he’s smarter or has more acumen than the other fella.
It’s like you’re denying reality. We previously had a litany of Tory MP’s doing nothing more than shouting three word slogans. We now have an adult that’s trying to move the needle. However minutely.
You’re in a fantasy land if you think Labour will torch every single scrap of political capital they have on another referendum. And madder still if you think ‘Sit there and take it because it’s impossible to change anything at all’ is a valid position.
Do you not think that maybe, just maybe, the old rules of politics still apply, and these kind of visits are a means to reset trust and faith in the UK with our European allies? Politics is so damn slow. For good reason lots of the time.
You’re in for decades of inner turmoil if you carry on as if you know more than those in power. It’s not even a case of intellect, it’s literally impossible to know any detail from informal discussions that are taking place.
No offence Bud but I actually know what I'm talking about so stop it with your patronising spiel.
Visits are all well and good to say , we're not the Tories and we want to be friends, yes no problem.
I'm not talking about another referendum that's a long way off. Although Starmer wanted another one very quickly and so did Farage if he lost.
None of this changes how the EU and trade works.
Have you read Jonathan Reynolds plan!? Laughable.
I think what is amazing about that graph is the way Labour managed to convince enough older voters not to vote against them (or to feel they didn't need to vote) during the election campaign. The jump is almost returning to the norm.
So you are saying that the EU and how trade works can't ever be changed or be different?
So for example, you are either fully in the Customs Union or you're not, no exceptions?
I think this meet and great is about if Trump wins in November and walks away from supporting Ukraine/ walks away from NATO.
What do the the existing NATO countries do about that?
It is better to look into the approaching abyss than close your eyes and fall into it.
The rest is superficial window dressing.
What do the the existing NATO countries do about that?
It is better to look into the approaching abyss than close your eyes and fall into it.
The rest is superficial window dressing.
Yes, @Paul the Wolf is saying that unless the whole block agrees on the changes then it can't change, as its built on fundamental pillars and if you need to make changes you need to be inside.
I think to get in the EU, UK would be probably asked to take on Euro, because it's not gone as planned for the EU trying to take our service sector.
We can't just cherry pick.
Ps..
This will be for captial gains as well, so just think of all the private landlords if you house it worth 325k anything you make from that is now subject to 40% tax.
Landlords are going to sell the houses before this gets imposed, people in the homes probably won't have deposits for a home, selling houses underneath the renter - because that's is what I'd do.
Knowing these feckers they'll probably try to tie the house value to council tax band or land value if its not been valued recently.
My miserable old auntie has been sharing about 3 boomer memes a day loaded with GBNews propaganda about pensioners not being able to afford to heat their homes.
I don’t think her financial situation is great, which is why she is worried but that should also mean that she has no cause to be worried because it’s means tested.
You can get a Winter Fuel Payment for Winter 2024 to 2025 if you were born before 23 September 1958.
You must also live in England or Wales and get one of the following:
Pension Credit
Universal Credit
income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA)
Income Support
Directly from the GOV.
What I'm saying is that if the seller of whatever goods to any EU country has to supply the documentation, certificates and everything that conforms to the standards , proof of origin etc etc etc;
But this is what happens worldwide, not just the EU. If you send a product from any country that is not the same Customs Union all this bureaucracy is there to ensure everything conforms and is traceable.
The amount of complete and utter b*ll*x that has been spread across the UK through the media and by politicians from the start of Brexit is truly moronic. So the public have no idea what is involved; The politicians have no idea what they're doing and the journalists have no idea what they're doing either.
It's not just the EU and the UK , it's everywhere including the US, Australia , any country you could name and the bureaucracy involved in many places is a hundred times worse in some places.
If you're in the same Customs Union, it cuts most of this out which is why it is totally and utterly insane for the UK to be outside it.
The selective reporting on the meeting yesterday seems to have failed to report that Scholz reminded Starmer that he has to implement the Brexit agreement in full. And there are another five years to go before it is fully implemented.
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An old bloke I know through sport has been sharing exactly the same, also 2 or 3 every day.
Latest was: "Maybe the 12 million pensioners could give £10 each to keep the illegals in the living standard they have become accustomed to."
True although I would put that down to more Tory incompetence.
Although the norm used to be olds hate labour because they thought comrade Corbyn was going to bring back communism and bin strikes. Now they hate labour because they worry Starmer is going to use boomers as a alternative fuel source.
Yep even I’m getting GB news and talk tv clips suggested to me on YouTube. The actual number of people effected will be small but I guess it’s the principle which boomers are worried about.
Although in my experience older people don’t extend this principle to any other groups in society.
What all governments have failed to understand is these costs get passed on to the tenant, or they sell up and reduce the available stock. Either way rental prices rise. The targeted attacks on the private rental market over the last decade have done little other than make it more expensive for all involved. Much the same will happen with a CGT rise.
Starmer couldn't have started worse if he'd tried and Reeves naively backed herself into a corner with the tax rise comments, and all the while Angela Rayner has been notable by her relative silence. Imo Labour's plan all along, Starmer will be the sacrificial lightning rod and before the 5 years is up we'll be facing Rayner as PM and then we will really see how bad the country can get.
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His meetings with Scholz and Macron, will be the outlier for further disscussions but as others have suggested it will mainly be about what happens if Trump gets elected and if he insists on Europe paying for its own defence.
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