Westminster Politics 2024-2029

[Buster15]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...08b036ea3f3f97#block-66cef8f38f08b036ea3f3f97

Keir Starmer announces new 'once in a generation' UK-Germany treaty​

So ridiculous. Starmer sh!ts the bed everytime someone mentions the B word.
"Once in a generation" treaty. For what?
Clueless.

Well the German Leader doesn't think it is ridiculous. And with due respect, I will bow to their knowledge on this as leaders of the 2 largest economies in Europe.
As you will have read it covers a great deal more than trade.

Edit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg3pxz4334o

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Well the German Leader doesn't think it is ridiculous. And with due respect, I will bow to their knowledge on this as leaders of the 2 largest economies in Europe.
As you will have read it covers a great deal more than trade.

Edit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg3pxz4334o

It doesn't cover anything worthwhile and certainly doesn't cover trade at all.
It's just a diplomatic exercise where Starmer thinks the EU are upset with the UK and he wants to build bridges which don't need to be built. There's no animosity from the EU side. The UK left , good luck! Scholz was just being polite.

How can he say it's 'a once in a generation' treaty. Less than four years ago the UK had unfettered access to the EU including Germany and so did the people.

Sorry but Starmer is a complete idiot and as I've said many times he has no idea at all about the EU (or anything else it seems). He's been exactly the same since I first came across him 8 years ago.

 

[Maticmaker]

The government are likely going to push through these cuts regardless of the negative backlash.

Starmer has to 'set his face like flint' and push on, or waste this (once in a lifetime) 170 seat majority and thereby dam the Labour Party as a champion for ordinary folk....forever.

 

[Superden]

Well the German Leader doesn't think it is ridiculous. And with due respect, I will bow to their knowledge on this as leaders of the 2 largest economies in Europe.
As you will have read it covers a great deal more than trade.

Edit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg3pxz4334o

the germans cant engage in anything meaningful with the UK when it comes to the most important thing which is trade, outside of their EU arrangements. The biggest impact of brexit has been on trade. ergo, its just starmer grandstanding without having the balls to actually fix things. so just starmer being starmer.

 

[Dobba]

The only chance you've got of Starmer talking about Brexit is if one of the people who dress him brings it up.

 

[DanH]

Well the German Leader doesn't think it is ridiculous. And with due respect, I will bow to their knowledge on this as leaders of the 2 largest economies in Europe.
As you will have read it covers a great deal more than trade.

Edit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg3pxz4334o

It will be good to see what they can accomplish with this.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

the germans cant engage in anything meaningful with the UK when it comes to the most important thing which is trade, outside of their EU arrangements. The biggest impact of brexit has been on trade. ergo, its just starmer grandstanding without having the balls to actually fix things. so just starmer being starmer.

The funny thing is that Starmer seems to manage to ruffle the feathers of the Brexit media and getting accused of all sorts of betrayal when he hasn't actually done anything.
And his loyal followers also think he has done something to help the UK which he hasn't.

It's a mad world. He's due to meet Macron as well.

 

[Red in STL]

the germans cant engage in anything meaningful with the UK when it comes to the most important thing which is trade, outside of their EU arrangements. The biggest impact of brexit has been on trade. ergo, its just starmer grandstanding without having the balls to actually fix things. so just starmer being starmer.

But the Germans have huge influence within the EU, if they like what they hear then they'll use it to get the rest inline, might come to nothing but it's defintely worth trying.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

But the Germans have huge influence within the EU, if they like what they hear then they'll use it to get the rest inline, might come to nothing but it's defintely worth trying.

Please stop!

Customs Union, Single Market !!!!! - it's back to the damned cherry picking of 2017 and the stupidity of Labour in the 2019 election.

 

[Buster15]

But the Germans have huge influence within the EU, if they like what they hear then they'll use it to get the rest inline, might come to nothing but it's defintely worth trying.

I do agree with you on that. Germany seems willing to enter into bilateral agreements with the UK, providing that does not cut across the EU. And the same with France.
Paul has his own opinion on Starmer and that is fine. I don't think Starmer is quite as stupid and he is right to speak with the largest 2 economies in the EU if he feels it could be beneficial.

 

[Red in STL]

Please stop!

Customs Union, Single Market !!!!! - it's back to the damned cherry picking of 2017 and the stupidity of Labour in the 2019 election.

So you think that everything is set in stone for ever, nothing is worth discussing?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I do agree with you on that. Germany seems willing to enter into bilateral agreements with the UK, providing that does not cut across the EU. And the same with France.
Paul has his own opinion on Starmer and that is fine. I don't think Starmer is quite as stupid and he is right to speak with the largest 2 economies in the EU if he feels it could be beneficial.

There are bilateral agreements - for example the UK pay France £x million to patrol the coastline.
Neither Germany nor France can do bilateral trade deals. Eight years of this and the nonsense is still going on.

Starmer even talked about student exchanges rather than joining this Youth scheme proposed by the EU.
Does he realise that this already exists. My grandson's school has an exchange arrangement with a school in Nantwich.

He's speaking with Macron next.

 

[Red in STL]

I do agree with you on that. Germany seems willing to enter into bilateral agreements with the UK, providing that does not cut across the EU. And the same with France.
Paul has his own opinion on Starmer and that is fine. I don't think Starmer is quite as stupid and he is right to speak with the largest 2 economies in the EU if he feels it could be beneficial.

Germany and France are the ones you need to get anywhere, get them on board then you've won half the battle. It's never going back to what it was in our lifetimes but there must be areas of common interest whre some agreements can be made.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

So you think that everything is set in stone for ever, nothing is worth discussing?

If Starmer wants to join the Customs Union and Single Market and cancels any deals made since the Uk left, abide by EU regulations , including the ECJ and many more things, then of course twenty or thirty years of discussions should result in something.

 

[Red in STL]

There are bilateral agreements - for example the UK pay France £x million to patrol the coastline.
Neither Germany nor France can do bilateral trade deals. Eight years of this and the nonsense is still going on.

Starmer even talked about student exchanges rather than joining this Youth scheme proposed by the UK.
Does he realise that this already exists. My grandson's school has an exchange arrangement with a school in Nantwich.

He's speaking with Macron next.

Who said anything about bilateral trade agreements? I certainly didn't

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Who said anything about bilateral trade agreements? I certainly didn't

I didn't say you did?

Starmer says:
He told the press conference:

When it comes to the wider reset with Europe I’m absolutely clear that we do want a reset, I’ve been able to repeat that here today.
A reset with Europe, a reset with the EU. And that does not mean reversing Brexit or re-entering the single market or the customs union, but it does mean a closer relationship on a number of fronts including the economy, including defence, including exchanges.
But we do not have plans for the youth mobility scheme, but we do have plans for a closer relationship between us and the EU.”

Starmer says: (Illegal migration as well)

 

[Red in STL]

I didn't say you did?

Starmer says:
He told the press conference:



Starmer says: (Illegal migration as well)

You really don't like Starmer do you!

 

[Buster15]

I didn't say you did?

Starmer says:
He told the press conference:



Starmer says: (Illegal migration as well)

So what is so wrong with any of that.

We all know that the Brexit deal was a piece of sh1t.
We know that Brexit has been exactly what we thought...a disaster.
Starmer is the first UK politician to at least attempt to improve the relationship with our European friends.
Maybe it will come to nothing. But from everything I have read, the German leather Scholz has said that he is very keen to have the agreement concluded in 6 months.

So let's see what the outcome of that and discussions with President Macron end up with.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

You really don't like Starmer do you!

I don't particularly like any politician.
They get rid of the Tories and they replace them by this fool. He's incompetent.

It's the letdown really, hoping for someone with brains and competence to repair the damage. But no.

 

[DanH]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/joint-declaration-on-deepening-and-enhancing-uk-germany-relations

Here's the joint statement:

Joint declaration between Prime Minister Keir Starmer and Chancellor Scholz on deepening and enhancing UK-Germany relations.

Germany and the United Kingdom share a strong friendship, common values and mutual interests. We are close partners in Europe and internationally as well as long-standing Allies in NATO. Today, given the common challenges our two countries face, we are convinced that the time has come to take our bilateral relations to the next level.
To this end, we are launching work on a bilateral cooperation treaty and will hold government-to-government consultations to sign it by early next year. This treaty will reflect our status as the closest of partners in Europe, with the strongest possible bilateral cooperation on the issues that matter most to our populations. It shall reflect the rich ties between our two countries, peoples and governments across the breadth of our bilateral relationship, in full accordance with Germany’s membership of the EU, and the UK’s relationship with the EU.
Our joint priorities include foreign policy cooperation in peace and security, growing our economies, industrial transformation, law enforcement cooperation and action to tackle irregular migration, increased people-to-people contacts, youth and education, energy security, climate and nature policy, development policy, transport and infrastructure as well as technology, research and innovation.
Germany and the UK are determined to defend and promote peace and security in Europe. As leading European Allies in NATO, we will work together with our Allies and partners to ensure that our ability to deter and defend in the Euro-Atlantic area remains credible at all times and against any possible threats or adversaries. We are committed to deterring a more aggressive Russia, sustaining our support to Ukraine and boosting European defence.
Our Foreign Ministries will coordinate work to negotiate the bilateral treaty, in close consultation with the German Federal Chancellery and the Prime Minister’s Office/Cabinet Office and the respective ministries.
In this context we welcome the work that is already being conducted at pace between by our Defence Ministers on a new agreement on defence to strengthen the links between our defence communities, industries and armed forces, and which act as a key pillar of the forthcoming bilateral cooperation treaty.

 

[Buster15]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/joint-declaration-on-deepening-and-enhancing-uk-germany-relations

Here's the joint statement:

I repeat... so what is wrong with any of that.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

So what is so wrong with any of that.

We all know that the Brexit deal was a piece of sh1t.
We know that Brexit has been exactly what we thought...a disaster.
Starmer is the first UK politician to at least attempt to improve the relationship with our European friends.
Maybe it will come to nothing. But from everything I have read, the German leather Scholz has said that he is very keen to have the agreement concluded in 6 months.

So let's see what the outcome of that and discussions with President Macron end up with.

It's not the Brexit deal - this is Brexit. What is now is what was voted for. Starmer doesn't want to reverse it. There's another five years of worse to come starting with the EES in November.

As I said, the "broken" relationship is only in the heads of UK politicians and the media.
The Uk can sell what it likes to Germany or France or any other EU country provided that it abides by the laws of the EU and completes all the bureaucracy associated with not being in the same Customs Union.

As Starmer thought in 2019 he thought he could have the same benefits inside and outside the EU and apparently still does.

The defence aspect is covered by the EU countries and the UK being in NATO. Of course Germany wants to have cordial relationships with the UK as will France or anyone else.
What do you expect to happen with this "treaty"?

 

[DanH]

I repeat... so what is wrong with any of that.

I agree with all of it, personally. There is a lot that can be done to improve relations and outcomes for both parties.

 

[Buster15]

It's not the Brexit deal - this is Brexit. What is now is what was voted for. Starmer doesn't want to reverse it. There's another five years of worse to come starting with the EES in November.

As I said, the "broken" relationship is only in the heads of UK politicians and the media.
The Uk can sell what it likes to Germany or France or any other EU country provided that it abides by the laws of the EU and completes all the bureaucracy associated with not being in the same Customs Union.

As Starmer thought in 2019 he thought he could have the same benefits inside and outside the EU and apparently still does.

The defence aspect is covered by the EU countries and the UK being in NATO. Of course Germany wants to have cordial relationships with the UK as will France or anyone else.
What do you expect to happen with this "treaty"?

I expect it to be in line with the joint statement.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I expect it to be in line with the joint statement.

Not a lot then.

 

[Buster15]

It's not the Brexit deal - this is Brexit. What is now is what was voted for. Starmer doesn't want to reverse it. There's another five years of worse to come starting with the EES in November.

As I said, the "broken" relationship is only in the heads of UK politicians and the media.
The Uk can sell what it likes to Germany or France or any other EU country provided that it abides by the laws of the EU and completes all the bureaucracy associated with not being in the same Customs Union.

As Starmer thought in 2019 he thought he could have the same benefits inside and outside the EU and apparently still does.

The defence aspect is covered by the EU countries and the UK being in NATO. Of course Germany wants to have cordial relationships with the UK as will France or anyone else.
What do you expect to happen with this "treaty"?

Paul. If you think that the broken relationship is only in the minds of the UK, then clearly Scholz doesn't agree with you.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Paul. If you think that the broken relationship is only in the minds of the UK, then clearly Scholz doesn't agree with you.

As Macron said last year, France will always be friends of the UK , no matter which politicians are in charge.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

It's not the Brexit deal - this is Brexit. What is now is what was voted for. Starmer doesn't want to reverse it. There's another five years of worse to come starting with the EES in November.

As I said, the "broken" relationship is only in the heads of UK politicians and the media.
The Uk can sell what it likes to Germany or France or any other EU country provided that it abides by the laws of the EU and completes all the bureaucracy associated with not being in the same Customs Union.

As Starmer thought in 2019 he thought he could have the same benefits inside and outside the EU and apparently still does.

The defence aspect is covered by the EU countries and the UK being in NATO. Of course Germany wants to have cordial relationships with the UK as will France or anyone else.
What do you expect to happen with this "treaty"?

No offence bud, but I’ll back the fella with decades of legal experience and access to the totality of government, along with the phone number of world leaders… over a shouty man on the internet that seems to think he’s smarter or has more acumen than the other fella.

It’s like you’re denying reality. We previously had a litany of Tory MP’s doing nothing more than shouting three word slogans. We now have an adult that’s trying to move the needle. However minutely.

You’re in a fantasy land if you think Labour will torch every single scrap of political capital they have on another referendum. And madder still if you think ‘Sit there and take it because it’s impossible to change anything at all’ is a valid position.

Do you not think that maybe, just maybe, the old rules of politics still apply, and these kind of visits are a means to reset trust and faith in the UK with our European allies? Politics is so damn slow. For good reason lots of the time.

You’re in for decades of inner turmoil if you carry on as if you know more than those in power. It’s not even a case of intellect, it’s literally impossible to know any detail from informal discussions that are taking place.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

No offence bud, but I’ll back the fella with decades of legal experience and access to the totality of government, along with the phone number of world leaders… over a shouty man on the internet that seems to think he’s smarter or has more acumen than the other fella.

It’s like you’re denying reality. We previously had a litany of Tory MP’s doing nothing more than shouting three word slogans. We now have an adult that’s trying to move the needle. However minutely.

You’re in a fantasy land if you think Labour will torch every single scrap of political capital they have on another referendum. And madder still if you think ‘Sit there and take it because it’s impossible to change anything at all’ is a valid position.

Do you not think that maybe, just maybe, the old rules of politics still apply, and these kind of visits are a means to reset trust and faith in the UK with our European allies? Politics is so damn slow. For good reason lots of the time.

You’re in for decades of inner turmoil if you carry on as if you know more than those in power. It’s not even a case of intellect, it’s literally impossible to know any detail from informal discussions that are taking place.

No offence Bud but I actually know what I'm talking about so stop it with your patronising spiel.

Visits are all well and good to say , we're not the Tories and we want to be friends, yes no problem.

I'm not talking about another referendum that's a long way off. Although Starmer wanted another one very quickly and so did Farage if he lost.

None of this changes how the EU and trade works.

Have you read Jonathan Reynolds plan!? Laughable.

 

[Sweet Square]

Is Starmer trying to get everyone to hate him



Also @golden_blunder

 

[Sweet Square]

 

[Frosty]

I think what is amazing about that graph is the way Labour managed to convince enough older voters not to vote against them (or to feel they didn't need to vote) during the election campaign. The jump is almost returning to the norm.

 

[Red in STL]

No offence Bud but I actually know what I'm talking about so stop it with your patronising spiel.

Visits are all well and good to say , we're not the Tories and we want to be friends, yes no problem.

I'm not talking about another referendum that's a long way off. Although Starmer wanted another one very quickly and so did Farage if he lost.

None of this changes how the EU and trade works.

Have you read Jonathan Reynolds plan!? Laughable.

So you are saying that the EU and how trade works can't ever be changed or be different?

So for example, you are either fully in the Customs Union or you're not, no exceptions?

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

I think this meet and great is about if Trump wins in November and walks away from supporting Ukraine/ walks away from NATO.

What do the the existing NATO countries do about that?

It is better to look into the approaching abyss than close your eyes and fall into it.

The rest is superficial window dressing.

 

[M16Red]

So you are saying that the EU and how trade works can't ever be changed or be different?

So for example, you are either fully in the Customs Union or you're not, no exceptions?

Yes, @Paul the Wolf is saying that unless the whole block agrees on the changes then it can't change, as its built on fundamental pillars and if you need to make changes you need to be inside.

I think to get in the EU, UK would be probably asked to take on Euro, because it's not gone as planned for the EU trying to take our service sector.

We can't just cherry pick.

 

[M16Red]

Yep, hear she's going after inheritance tax next, bringing down the threshold from £325k to a lower amount to hit 40% - also widening the time of gifting from 5 years to 10.

So if you've got a family member in a 300k house that has gifted you money in the pasted 10 years that will/could be classed as a part of the total estate and will be subject to tax.

Welcome to social communism.

Ps..

This will be for captial gains as well, so just think of all the private landlords if you house it worth 325k anything you make from that is now subject to 40% tax.

Landlords are going to sell the houses before this gets imposed, people in the homes probably won't have deposits for a home, selling houses underneath the renter - because that's is what I'd do.

Knowing these feckers they'll probably try to tie the house value to council tax band or land value if its not been valued recently.

 

[Pexbo]

My miserable old auntie has been sharing about 3 boomer memes a day loaded with GBNews propaganda about pensioners not being able to afford to heat their homes.

I don’t think her financial situation is great, which is why she is worried but that should also mean that she has no cause to be worried because it’s means tested.

 

[M16Red]

My miserable old auntie has been sharing about 3 boomer memes a day loaded with GBNews propaganda about pensioners not being able to afford to heat their homes.

I don’t think her financial situation is great, which is why she is worried but that should also mean that she has no cause to be worried because it’s means tested.

You can get a Winter Fuel Payment for Winter 2024 to 2025 if you were born before 23 September 1958.

You must also live in England or Wales and get one of the following:

Pension Credit
Universal Credit
income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA)
Income Support

Directly from the GOV.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

So you are saying that the EU and how trade works can't ever be changed or be different?

So for example, you are either fully in the Customs Union or you're not, no exceptions?

What I'm saying is that if the seller of whatever goods to any EU country has to supply the documentation, certificates and everything that conforms to the standards , proof of origin etc etc etc;

But this is what happens worldwide, not just the EU. If you send a product from any country that is not the same Customs Union all this bureaucracy is there to ensure everything conforms and is traceable.

The amount of complete and utter b*ll*x that has been spread across the UK through the media and by politicians from the start of Brexit is truly moronic. So the public have no idea what is involved; The politicians have no idea what they're doing and the journalists have no idea what they're doing either.

It's not just the EU and the UK , it's everywhere including the US, Australia , any country you could name and the bureaucracy involved in many places is a hundred times worse in some places.

If you're in the same Customs Union, it cuts most of this out which is why it is totally and utterly insane for the UK to be outside it.

The selective reporting on the meeting yesterday seems to have failed to report that Scholz reminded Starmer that he has to implement the Brexit agreement in full. And there are another five years to go before it is fully implemented.

 

[mitChley]

My miserable old auntie has been sharing about 3 boomer memes a day loaded with GBNews propaganda about pensioners not being able to afford to heat their homes.

I don’t think her financial situation is great, which is why she is worried but that should also mean that she has no cause to be worried because it’s means tested.

An old bloke I know through sport has been sharing exactly the same, also 2 or 3 every day.

Latest was: "Maybe the 12 million pensioners could give £10 each to keep the illegals in the living standard they have become accustomed to."