Westminster Politics 2024-2029

[Smores]

Even as a Labour voter I'm heavily critical of them but the idea the Tories were on track and Labour have damaged it is hilarious reading.

Every economic body out there for years has been talking up the need to front load major public investment to help with productivity. Labour have done that and yes they've had to raise taxes to fund it but it's absolutely necessary short term pain.

Only the likes of 11101 could believe gutting public investment is the correct path to economic stability and growth.

 

[finneh]

This country is absolutely cooked.


This Labour party may have a few different fiscal policies than the Tories but they have the same neoliberal economic outlook. It's the economic system which is the problem, it honestly doesn't matter who's in charge.

Do you really believe things would be going better if the Tories had won the GE?

Neoliberalism is a political approach that favours free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending.

Really? I'd say the reverse is true if you discount Thatcher's time in office (other reductions were corrections post-war, post-crash and post-covid).

 

[Dobba]

a bit grim this. Do fear after all this noise has died down, the victims of all this will be ignored

No chance, next you'll be telling me an institution that covered up child rape for decades and protected the committers amongst its ranks would have automatic right for 26 people to sit and vote in the House of Lords.

 

[Jippy]

Even as a Labour voter I'm heavily critical of them but the idea the Tories were on track and Labour have damaged it is hilarious reading.

Every economic body out there for years has been talking up the need to front load major public investment to help with productivity. Labour have done that and yes they've had to raise taxes to fund it but it's absolutely necessary short term pain.

Only the likes of 11101 could believe gutting public investment is the correct path to economic stability and growth.

Those same economic bodies are also worrying about the lack of policies to stoke growth though. Of course public services needed a huge cash injection, but the fiscal headroom is very tight, not helped by gilt yields rising. Further tax hikes could be very damaging.

 

[decorativeed]

10 year gilts now at the highest level since.... the last time Labour got hold of the economy.

2008. Famously nothing else happened in that year other than Labour being in power. And - much as I dislike this current Labour gov - there's also quite a lot of factors outside of government control that are massively and negatively affecting inflation and the economy here and elsewhere in the world currently. Let's not pretend otherwise.

 

[11101]

Public services have been decimated by the Tories. The irony of the budget is that local authorities still have massive shortfalls in their budgets which will impact local services. However public services need serious investment for improvements.

Quite right. The Tories made a mess of most things post Brexit vote. The point is that even after all that, after only 6 months confidence in Labour is already lower than it ever was under the Tories.

Even as a Labour voter I'm heavily critical of them but the idea the Tories were on track and Labour have damaged it is hilarious reading.

Every economic body out there for years has been talking up the need to front load major public investment to help with productivity. Labour have done that and yes they've had to raise taxes to fund it but it's absolutely necessary short term pain.

Only the likes of 11101 could believe gutting public investment is the correct path to economic stability and growth.

No they haven't. They conjured up a blackhole to justify tax rises on workers and then handed all the money to public sector bodies. There is nothing in the budget to promote growth and productivity, that's why it's been so badly received.

 

[TheGame]

Quite right. The Tories made a mess of most things post Brexit vote. The point is that even after all that, after only 6 months confidence in Labour is already lower than it ever was under the Tories.



No they haven't. They conjured up a blackhole to justify tax rises on workers and then handed all the money to public sector bodies. There is nothing in the budget to promote growth and productivity, that's why it's been so badly received.

No they haven’t. It was widely reported there was a budget shortfall which wasn’t declared by the Conservatives. There was a debate over the figure but not over whether there was a shortfall.

 

[P-Ro]

No they haven't. They conjured up a blackhole to justify tax rises on workers and then handed all the money to public sector bodies. There is nothing in the budget to promote growth and productivity, that's why it's been so badly received.

And yet, they might luckily stumble into economic growth with how unstable the political situation is in Germany & France. Nothing of their own doing unless their plan was to give the impression to outside investors that the UK is a safe bet in the face of those 2 countries self-immolating. I doubt it though because I think Reeves and Co are dumb as feck.

 

[P-Ro]

No they haven’t. It was widely reported there was a budget shortfall which wasn’t declared by the Conservatives. There was a debate over the figure but not over whether there was a shortfall.

From what I understand, this shortfall was widely known but Labour decided to base all of their economic plan on a report from the IFS, rather than going to the person who would actually know which is the Treasury permanent secretary. Reeves is either being disingenuous/lying about what she thought they were inheriting or she is incredibly incompetent by relying solely on a report that was incorrect.

 

[M16Red]

Even as a Labour voter I'm heavily critical of them but the idea the Tories were on track and Labour have damaged it is hilarious reading.

Every economic body out there for years has been talking up the need to front load major public investment to help with productivity. Labour have done that and yes they've had to raise taxes to fund it but it's absolutely necessary short term pain.

Only the likes of 11101 could believe gutting public investment is the correct path to economic stability and growth.

The net borrowing was coming down.

If you look at the GDP as well, it took a huge hit.

While I don't think it'll be anywhere close to what it should have be target wise, it was looking much better before the C19.

Alas we now have Rachel, and she has managed to invert it in what.. 5 months - it's an achievement of some kind.

 

[TheGame]

From what I understand, this shortfall was widely known but Labour decided to base all of their economic plan on a report from the IFS, rather than going to the person who would actually know which is the Treasury permanent secretary. Reeves is either being disingenuous/lying about what she thought they were inheriting or she is incredibly incompetent by relying solely on a report that was incorrect.

My understanding was that it wasn’t widely known but hidden by the Tories however there is a dispute over the actual figure. Frankly I wouldn’t put it past the Tories knowing they were going to lose the election.

 

[11101]

My understanding was that it wasn’t widely known but hidden by the Tories however there is a dispute over the actual figure. Frankly I wouldn’t put it past the Tories knowing they were going to lose the election.

The OBR made its calculations using the wrong figures but the best guess is a £9bn black hole. Either way, Reeves immediately giving out £12bn out in public sector pay rises didn't help.

 

[decorativeed]

The OBR made its calculations using the wrong figures but the best guess is a £9bn black hole. Either way, Reeves immediately giving out £12bn out in public sector pay rises didn't help.

What do you think would have happened to those public sectors and the services they provide if she hadn't?

 

[TheGame]

The OBR made its calculations using the wrong figures but the best guess is a £9bn black hole. Either way, Reeves immediately giving out £12bn out in public sector pay rises didn't help.

So you said in your previous post Labour lied about the black hole and now you are saying there was a black hole. Those public sector pay rises didn't even scratch the surface after being below inflation level for years.

 

[Drainy]

I love how the public sector are just expected to eat shit and take paycuts every year, and the public are expected to put up with non-stop striking

 

[P-Ro]

My understanding was that it wasn’t widely known but hidden by the Tories however there is a dispute over the actual figure. Frankly I wouldn’t put it past the Tories knowing they were going to lose the election.

Government ministers get all their information on the department they are responsible for from civil servants. The senior civil servants are the people who actually understand and run the departments. Reeves and all other shadow ministers had ample opportunity to ask the civil service about the state of the finances, both when they were in opposition and especially in the purdah period running up to the election. These conversations are strictly confidential so we'll probably never know whether they did ask or not, but it would be bonkers if they didn't.

 

[TheGame]

I love how the public sector are just expected to eat shit and take paycuts every year, and the public are expected to put up with non-stop striking

And then the public moan about the services in their areas. It's year after year the public sector get shafted. More Local authorities are now more and more on the brink of bankruptcy.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

And then the public moan about the services in their areas. It's year after year the public sector get shafted. More Local authorities are now more and more on the brink of bankruptcy.

Indeed. And yet Labour refuse to fund public services sufficiently.

 

[TheGame]

Government ministers get all their information on the department they are responsible for from civil servants. The senior civil servants are the people who actually understand and run the departments. Reeves and all other shadow ministers had ample opportunity to ask the civil service about the state of the finances, both when they were in opposition and especially in the purdah period running up to the election. These conversations are strictly confidential so we'll probably never know whether they did ask or not, but it would be bonkers if they didn't.

The OBR said it did not get the information it should have been given by the Treasury back in February when it was outlining these forecasts. In their published report in October, there was an estimated of the shortfall which was £9.5bn so it looks like there was a shortfall which wasn't declared for whatever reason. Labour have published a breakdown of how the figure is £22bn.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2e12j4gz0o

 

[TheGame]

Indeed. And yet Labour refuse to fund public services sufficiently.

Yep its disgraceful, same old stuff spouted out and we as local authorities have to suffer the pressures. All the talk each day where I work is around savings and making the budget balance. It's local residents who then get less services.

 

[11101]

What do you think would have happened to those public sectors and the services they provide if she hadn't?

Probably not a lot would have happened either way

 

[ivaldo]

Probably not a lot would have happened either way

Indeed, that's why British rail and British water is now the envy of the world. Just look how productive they now are!

Gerald Corbett, the former chief executive of Railtrack (remember them?), said it best:

"The only way we can make profits is by not doing the things we should do to make the railways better."

 

[Mogget]

Neoliberalism is a political approach that favours free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending.

Really? I'd say the reverse is true if you discount Thatcher's time in office (other reductions were corrections post-war, post-crash and post-covid).

If anything I think that supports my point. The Tory neoliberal outlook post 2008 crash was the belief that reducing government spending would fix the country's economic problems. I'd say the people currently running things in the Labour party believe the same thing, that the way to resolve our issues is by reducing government spending.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

Yep it’s disgraceful, same old stuff spouted out and we as local authorities have to suffer the pressures. All the talk each day where I work is around savings and making the budget balance. It's local residents who then get less services.

It really is. They can fund the local authorities but are choosing not to. This is only fuelling support for Reform.