There's a huge difference in quality between KDB and Bruno though, just watch a couple of matches of each and it's quite clear
We will never win the league with Bruno Fernandes in the team...
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There's a huge difference in quality between KDB and Bruno though, just watch a couple of matches of each and it's quite clear
For the Southampton game, I feel that the replacement of Fred with Sancho in midfield gave Bruno and Casemiro too much to do. Bruno's passing has been erratic at times and given the pressure he was under, it was made worse. Hope we don't see a setup like that again in future.
Bruno can't operate in a 2 man midfield. He takes too many chances with the ball - he can get away with that in a forward position with 2 central midfielders behind him - so yeah I mainly agree with you
Need an upgrade on Bruno if we're going to be successful,he's just too inconsistent.
He is third in chances created for this season. You could argue he isnt inconsistent in that very important part of the game. Although to be 100% you would need to see if he spread those created chances around and not just created an absolute boatload against certain opponents.
From memory and eye test i would say he does often create chances.
Against Southampton Only
Hit the post
That throughball to rashford
The tribela
Was it him who hit Wouts head with a ball?
Yeah let's replace him with a workhorse
Hit the post
That throughball to rashford
The tribela
Was it him who hit Wouts head with a ball?
Yeah let's replace him with a workhorse
These chances created stat is vague. The rest of the team is playing well enough to keep getting the ball to him in a good position where he can create a chance, but what is the success rate? How many misplaced passes for each correct chance are there? If it's five misplaced passes for every chance, it doesn't mean much, even if he is third in chances created.
He's third because he's always involved, he's often frustrating because his passes can be very wasteful, but he just has drive built into him and ends up producing something due to sheer quantity.
Until there is a better alternative, we are not the same without him.
We need an Odegaard type (younger) alternative who forces him to have to improve his general play
There really isn't, the difference is that KdB plays in a far more organised team which controls matches with more regularity. You only have to look at matches where City don't control the game to see how problematic KdB's ball retention is.
It's the same thing with TAA at Liverpool.
We had one for free. He's at Fulham now though.
Its probably why bruno will win a CL for us before kdb does for city
No idea who that is but we need another. Genuine quality
Are you having a laugh?
I think there's two alternatives with Fernandes. Either United sign more wide players in summer who are more clinical and athletic so that the runners in behind open up space. This helps Bruno's game immensely and he can pick out passes with the options that open up to him which puts less emphasis on the critique of his general play. I actually think United have the worst inside forwards outside of Rashford in the top 4 this season. I know some need time but in terms of current contribution Sancho especially has offered nothing this season.
The other alternative is to sign a good upcoming 10 who can slot into Bruno's position. I think fatigue is a very valid argument for his often ridiculous methods of losing possession. It's the same with Casemiro the club need young players who can come and impact this first team because of the amount of games available. Lavia / Caicedo = league experience, less of a need to adapt as a result and can have an impact quickly.
Separate to this discussion is an alarming reality that the club aren't linked with enough young players in and around the first team. Not suggesting the team use a Chelsea strategy but if United sign Kane in summer and a 25+ year old midfielder is concerning because there's an ageing aspect of the squad settling in already and that should never happen under a new manager.
The other alternative is to sign a good upcoming 10 who can slot into Bruno's position. I think fatigue is a very valid argument for his often ridiculous methods of losing possession. It's the same with Casemiro the club need young players who can come and impact this first team because of the amount of games available. Lavia / Caicedo = league experience, less of a need to adapt as a result and can have an impact quickly.
Separate to this discussion is an alarming reality that the club aren't linked with enough young players in and around the first team. Not suggesting the team use a Chelsea strategy but if United sign Kane in summer and a 25+ year old midfielder is concerning because there's an ageing aspect of the squad settling in already and that should never happen under a new manager.
New title…United will never win the league if Bruno is expected to start every match and create 90% of chances for the whole team.
Amazingly the guy is actually trying to do just that…but how dare he throw his hands up or show any frustration!
Amazingly the guy is actually trying to do just that…but how dare he throw his hands up or show any frustration!
There is though, the passing accuracy is similar for the two but KDB is a level above Bruno clearly in terms of technical quality and total ability. Which is what I'm referring to.
I think he means good old Andreas Pereira. He is genuine quality, if the quality you happen to be looking for is mediocrity.
If he played for anyone else you would really dislike him. He complains too much and that display at Anfield still fills me with anger.
Can't believe ETH kept him as captain, i would have dropped him for a couple of games and made him think about his actions.
Can't believe ETH kept him as captain, i would have dropped him for a couple of games and made him think about his actions.
He is a bit like Rooney in his polarisation
There's not though, and nothing bears that out other than some extremely subjective eye test. KdB being prettier on the ball doesn't change the fact they have a very similar play style and it clearly doesn't prevent City winning the league.
I'm a Bruno fan but KdB is clearly a better player. That he can move with the ball, that alone, puts him ahead of Bruno. Yes that's subjective but that's what all opinions on footballers are. Hence the constant disagreement bewtween fans.
But agree about this playing style they both have not being a problem in terms of winning titles.
Quite a few posters seem to think our problems with possession begin and end with Bruno. When in fact its at least half the team.
Ever since we signed Sancho I always realized that our fan base has no understanding of quality of footballer.
98% of the fan base was crying for Sancho.
Keep going Bruno!
98% of the fan base was crying for Sancho.
Keep going Bruno!
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Rooney gets too underrated by a good portion on here. He was a far better player than Bruno and far more versatile too.
Problem with Bruno is that Ten Haag doesn't think he's useful to the team in his natural position and with his natural game. His natural position is 10 and his natural game is to be a free spirit roaming along whacking balls all over the place and scoring goals. Thats what he is best at. Under Ten Haag at best he plays much deeper. An advanced 8 more than a 10 with strict rules and discipline. At worst he is pushed to the wings. If you need a 10 that is a stat packer with goals and assists then I don't think there are many better players than Bruno. Question is if this new version of Bruno is elite or he is just doing a decent job. I'd go with the latter. He's done a good job, works hard and is a leader. As a footballer he's not the best 8 and he's definitely not the best winger. He's good don't get me wrong. Just not great.
Just the same cnuts that wanted Rashford sold looking to blame a new dirty toy
It’s the one thing I hate most about this club - our fan base.
Liverpool fan base love their team through thick and thin almost through delusional level.
It’s why a player like Henderson, TAA and Firmino can do so well for them even if they are not ‘perfect’ players.
It’s the one thing I hate most about this club - our fan base.
Liverpool fan base love their team through thick and thin almost through delusional level.
It’s why a player like Henderson, TAA and Firmino can do so well for them even if they are not ‘perfect’ players.
people were hating on him for a good while due to his lower level being stank
That was more-so towards the end of his career when he was past his best.
I dont think we'll win the league with or without him.
I'm not talking about KdB's dribbling ability, that's a different argument (and one I've had in this thread before pointing out that KdB is a much better dribbler).
For me, F* the short game. Before Bruno we were playing this side-ways and backwards horse-sh**e. Boring, predictable. Bruno's goal involvements speak for themselves. I like the fact he tries stuff other player don't even see, or thing of. Yeah he loses the ball, but it's to be expected when he tries the killer ball more than anybody else. The guy has Cahona's, big Portuguese ones, and we would be worse off without him. United play a direct, counter-attack, high press style now which I love. Remember Old Trafford singing 'attack attack, attack attack attack' that was when we were playing short passing side-ways and backwards tripe possession.
Honestly, this is the most stupid title thread on the entire board…I get irrational angry every time I see it bumped.
No one player has unilateral influence to win or lose the league.
My next thread “we’ll never win the league Phil Jones under contract”…it’s just as arbitrary.
No one player has unilateral influence to win or lose the league.
My next thread “we’ll never win the league Phil Jones under contract”…it’s just as arbitrary.
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I find it hard to even engage with the argument of this thread given its so crystal clear that Ten Hag adores Bruno.
If it's true that we won't win the league with him then you can just write off the next few years. So best not to think about it, really. Just focus on what can be done to improve the areas we're actually likely to improve.
It just tells you that people can moan to just about everything
That pass he made to Weghorst (who refused to attempt controlling it) was unreal in terms of tekkers
Yeah, EtH loves him and its so obvious when he plays him in every single game and almost every min.
His work rate, ability to create chances and off the ball movement both with and without possession is awesome.
So many thought EtH signing means end of Bruno, looks like he has gone even higher in importance to the team(if that's possible).
I never ignore threads (though I have a lot of posters on ignore. I even un-ignored a few lately). Good to see the range of views in the Caf, I feel, however supercharged daft they are.
I have changed my mind about this thread, for example. I appreciate it now as an excellent place to corral and vent for Football Manager type fans. I understand that there is a journey in knowing/understanding any team game, because I had my own journey, which I am still on. I am a typical enough football fan. I mean any time I am at a match or in the pub watching on TV I am pretty unexceptional in most respects. I started off as a kid not knowing about offside, etc. In primary school, for example, we played a frantic game resembling chase-the-chicken along a concrete pavement, everyone 'attracted' to the ball in a mad crowd, repeatedly breaking the school window with a heavy plastic ball that hurt badly to head and even to kick.
No offside there, but lots of horrible knee scars. In later life I played a bit in school, usually defensive midfield. I was a fairly committed tackler. I learned about formations, about keeping shape, about how the game gets compressed. About why its sometimes good to play one-touch, sometimes good to make breaks, sometimes good to slow it down. Theres a thing about keeping the opponent in the corner of your eye, ready to move when the defender is balanced wrong, going to their right, over the extended left leg (the stock dribble for a right footer attempted to beat the defender on their right, tempting a tackle and dodging). My shin bones are all lumpy from kicks, the painful way of learning how to protect yourself from injury. When two players kick a loose ball at once, for example, getting your studs embedded in the ground, blocking, probably meant you came out best.
I liked other sports, too, including Gaelic football. In later life I learned enough basics of the rules and team positions of rugby (union, and even a bit of rugby league on TV) to appreciate and enjoy the game. Before that, I found it hard to see the point of rugby, just as today the point in horse racing and American football completely eludes me.
Anyone who doesn't get why Bruno is a lynchpin of the current set up and so valued by the manager must be at a level of knowledge that makes 'soccer' rather unenjoyable. Maybe they spend their days in a variety of forums, spouting equally uninformed opinions on everything from nuclear fusion to foot-binding in Medieval China.
Fair play to the football people willing to venture in here to take on the elephant-sized task of explaining to this cohort why Bruno is an ideas man; why he's the answer to massed defences; why he takes chances because that's his job, etc. Etc. Etc. ETH. And so on, forever and ever and ever.
I have changed my mind about this thread, for example. I appreciate it now as an excellent place to corral and vent for Football Manager type fans. I understand that there is a journey in knowing/understanding any team game, because I had my own journey, which I am still on. I am a typical enough football fan. I mean any time I am at a match or in the pub watching on TV I am pretty unexceptional in most respects. I started off as a kid not knowing about offside, etc. In primary school, for example, we played a frantic game resembling chase-the-chicken along a concrete pavement, everyone 'attracted' to the ball in a mad crowd, repeatedly breaking the school window with a heavy plastic ball that hurt badly to head and even to kick.
No offside there, but lots of horrible knee scars. In later life I played a bit in school, usually defensive midfield. I was a fairly committed tackler. I learned about formations, about keeping shape, about how the game gets compressed. About why its sometimes good to play one-touch, sometimes good to make breaks, sometimes good to slow it down. Theres a thing about keeping the opponent in the corner of your eye, ready to move when the defender is balanced wrong, going to their right, over the extended left leg (the stock dribble for a right footer attempted to beat the defender on their right, tempting a tackle and dodging). My shin bones are all lumpy from kicks, the painful way of learning how to protect yourself from injury. When two players kick a loose ball at once, for example, getting your studs embedded in the ground, blocking, probably meant you came out best.
I liked other sports, too, including Gaelic football. In later life I learned enough basics of the rules and team positions of rugby (union, and even a bit of rugby league on TV) to appreciate and enjoy the game. Before that, I found it hard to see the point of rugby, just as today the point in horse racing and American football completely eludes me.
Anyone who doesn't get why Bruno is a lynchpin of the current set up and so valued by the manager must be at a level of knowledge that makes 'soccer' rather unenjoyable. Maybe they spend their days in a variety of forums, spouting equally uninformed opinions on everything from nuclear fusion to foot-binding in Medieval China.
Fair play to the football people willing to venture in here to take on the elephant-sized task of explaining to this cohort why Bruno is an ideas man; why he's the answer to massed defences; why he takes chances because that's his job, etc. Etc. Etc. ETH. And so on, forever and ever and ever.
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Cantona's Cojones.
Well said just like to add all this would have made sense had United actually won the League or even made a genuine challenge for the League which actually last the distance till then Fernandes along with rest of team as well as Ten Hag has all to prove .
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