We will never win the league with Bruno Fernandes in the team...

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TheMagicFoolBus said:
Watched plenty of those shows - and are you really trying to default to the punditry on Portuguese TV as a metric? That is perhaps the most pathetic appeal to authority I've ever seen, given the state of journalism in this country.

Again - I never said Bruno was bad. He generally played well. But he was by no means the best Portuguese player at the WC and I stand by my assertion that the team would be better without him - Bruno is an awkward fit tactically, and if the choice is between him or Joao Felix so Leao can play down the left, I'm taking Felix every time.
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:lol:

OK now I really give no credibility to your post. You know better than Rui Santos, David Borges and Ribeiro Cristóvão. I see that you really know nothing of portuguese football scene. I didn't mention Dani, Abel Xavier or Freitas Lobo. All the pundits I mentioned are veteran journalists with decades following our football. They have much more credibility than you and your so called mates. Don't address me again, got no time to waste with a smart-ass that thinks that knows more than he really knows. Stick to Chelsea. You know nothing of our football scene. Ridiculous post, implying that you know more than those journalists.
 
Rightnr said:
Genuinely do not disagree with a single thing there, except for the Bruno bit (although Antony has been useful but he's never been and probably never will be £85m worth of a RW, same as Sancho).

I cannot recall one big game in the PL where Bruno's played well for us, meaning he's stood out and just run the show? There genuinely isn't one (or maybe I'm misremembering).

He always gets found out, especially against City and Liverpool. As a United captain, you need to turn up against these lot or else you're just a small-time bully (hence the Lukaku comparison).
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Again, Bruno has been the least of United's problems in my opinion. When the team stabilizes even more with the manager, better transfers, I think he will get back back to his start of United career form. I'll respectably disagree with your opinion but understand your disappointment after such tragic game against your main rival.
 
Rightnr said:
Genuinely do not disagree with a single thing there, except for the Bruno bit (although Antony has been useful but he's never been and probably never will be £85m worth of a RW, same as Sancho).

I cannot recall one big game in the PL where Bruno's played well for us, meaning he's stood out and just run the show? There genuinely isn't one (or maybe I'm misremembering).

He always gets found out, especially against City and Liverpool. As a United captain, you need to turn up against these lot or else you're just a small-time bully (hence the Lukaku comparison).
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I think he’s had good big games, but they are usually in leading a backs to the wall resistance with huge workrate, defensive effort etc rather than imposing quality over top players for 90 mins. I don’t think he jas that in him. But he was very good against Liverpool at Old Trafford for example. Just not in the same way Salah was good against us.

He was very good in the Nou Camp too I think.
 
Rozay said:
I think he’s had good big games, but they are usually in leading a backs to the wall resistance with huge workrate, defensive effort etc rather than imposing quality over top players for 90 mins. I don’t think he jas that in him. But he was very good against Liverpool at Old Trafford for example. Just not in the same way Salah was good against us.

He was very good in the Nou Camp too I think.
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This is my point, he's great when we're counter-attacking but we cannot aim to play like that long-term.

As for the Nou Camp, I was talking about PL games because they just have a different intensity.
 
What we really need is an able backup to Bruno. Bruno himself is fantastic, but he needs more rest than he's gotten this season, and he needs quality players around him so that he doesn't have to be played out of position to make a makeshift squad work.
 
Maluco said:
Some of you are living in dreamland. Talking about upgrading Bruno when we have Wout as our main striker, no other midfield options, terrible sub center backs, no quality right backs, and a goalkeeper on 300k that just saved nothing in a 7-0 loss.

There is so, so much today before an upgrade on Bruno even makes it onto the first page of a priority list.
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Semi agree two strikers and a partner for Casemeiro are our main priorities and there are three others ahead of prioritising number 10 as well within our squad.

What we do needed though is competition for his place and influence within the side. The guy works his socks off and does make contributions that are decisive...but

1) He shouldnt be the captain of the club
2) He shouldnt be undroppable, he always plays and I think he needs more rests and his performances as a whole from his first 6-9months in no way warrant it either
3) Always get stats thrown at me making this comment, but he simply gives the ball away far far too often both passing and when on the ball.

For me he is still loving off the first 9months, he has had some good performances this season, but his standing among many fans of being world class and then people will mention the world cup, to me is way off the mark, he really isnt.

All that being said, I dont think we actually even have to sign anybody to give him competition for his place. I think Eriksen will be far more effective in our side as a number 10 than deeper where he doesnt have the legs or defensive nouse. Sancho looked decent when he came on there as well recently.....and I dont see him starting on the wings at this point in time. I also think we have some good young options to give him competition in Hannibal there, maybe Amad and I actually think Pellestris attributes would be good in that role, so there is possible competition within the squad.

For me though, I like Fernandes, I dont love him liek many as those first 9months are long forgotten
 
jesperjaap said:
For me though, I like Fernandes, I dont love him liek many as those first 9months are long forgotten
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So you only love players that can sustain high level performances all the time. Some standards, doc.
 
mu4c_20le said:
So you only love players that can sustain high level performances all the time. Some standards, doc.
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In regards to that time period, it's not about sustaining the level he had then, it's that he's not going to perform like that again unless your side changes their approach back to a similar set up
 
j65454 said:
41 goals in 111 appearances for an attacking midfielder is an immense return.
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If you take away 17 penalties, then 24 goals in 111 isn’t an immense return. Neither is 11 goals in his last 59.
 
Sly said:
:lol:

OK now I really give no credibility to your post. You know better than Rui Santos, David Borges and Ribeiro Cristóvão. I see that you really know nothing of portuguese football scene. I didn't mention Dani, Abel Xavier or Freitas Lobo. All the pundits I mentioned are veteran journalists with decades following our football. They have much more credibility than you and your so called mates. Don't address me again, got no time to waste with a smart-ass that thinks that knows more than he really knows. Stick to Chelsea. You know nothing of our football scene. Ridiculous post, implying that you know more than those journalists.
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Mate you are twisting yourself up in knots - you are all worked up because I said that despite Bruno playing well at the WC he's an awkward fit for the NT.

You are only digging yourself deeper into the hole of appealing to authority - if pundits are infallible then why do forums even exist? Or are you genuinely trying to say that you've never disagreed with anything those pundits have said ever? Next time one of them talks out of his arse I'll be glad to know you will agree fully because he's a pundit on TV and therefore can't be wrong.

I very obviously never implied that I know more than those journalists, but nice attempt at a straw man. Whatever helps you sleep at night!
 
Sandikan said:
Bruno wasn't shifted wide according to me. He was actually, literally shifted wide.

Some games it may look like genius. But you have to wonder.
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It was done for the benefit of Rashford, currently our only consistent goal threat. To try and make it out to be some sort of problem with Bruno is laugahble in the extreme.
 
lex talionis said:
What we really need is an able backup to Bruno. Bruno himself is fantastic, but he needs more rest than he's gotten this season, and he needs quality players around him so that he doesn't have to be played out of position to make a makeshift squad work.
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You mean we need other players to do his job? You think he is trusted in that position in big games?
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Mate you are twisting yourself up in knots - you are all worked up because I said that despite Bruno playing well at the WC he's an awkward fit for the NT.

You are only digging yourself deeper into the hole of appealing to authority - if pundits are infallible then why do forums even exist? Or are you genuinely trying to say that you've never disagreed with anything those pundits have said ever? Next time one of them talks out of his arse I'll be glad to know you will agree fully because he's a pundit on TV and therefore can't be wrong.

I very obviously never implied that I know more than those journalists, but nice attempt at a straw man. Whatever helps you sleep at night!
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The strawman is yours when there is consensus in portuguese media regarding him being one of the players in the WC. Case in point:



Best player in terms of performance, goals, assists and mom.

https://www.publico.pt/2022/12/10/d...lise-individual-jogadores-portugueses-2030962

Analysis of the best players against Marocco, Pepe, Bruno and Felix with the best scores

https://cnnportugal.iol.pt/videos/q...joao-felix-fernandes/639cad9d0cf27230dc1dedbc

Again one of the best players by CNN Portugal

https://observador.pt/programas/emissao-especial/mundial-2022-as-notas-aos-jogadores-de-portugal/

Again one of the best according to Augusto Inácio. Former Portugal NT player who played WC and Euros, active manager and pundit.

Near consensus that he's one of the top players in our National team. Unanimous regarding the importance. No one bar Magic what his name talks about the fit. Two goals, 3 assists and 5 clear cut chances created in the world cup, the biggest competition national team wise. And you talk of fit and of freaking Leão. Portugal will have plenty of problems without Ronaldo and Bruno Fernandes isn't one of them.

When there's a consensus or near unanimous consensus about a player in pundits, former national team player and managers that destroys the little credibility you have.

Revisionism because of a bad phase is arguing in bad faith and distortion of the truth.

Again I give no credibility or relevance to your claims. You are wasting both of our times and speaking of things you don't know. You have no authority or knowledge of portuguese football or media.
 
His output in the last two seasons isn't good enough to justify conceding midfield control vs good sides by only playing 2 in there as Bruno is a faux forward
 
Sly it's a football forum, you can just disagree with someone and call them an idiot. You don't have to keep saying " YOU DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITAH" "WHO GAVE YOU THE AUTHORITAH" "ON WHAT AUTHORITAH DO YOU SPEAK"
 
Sly said:
The strawman is yours when there is consensus in portuguese media regarding him being one of the players in the WC. Case in point:



Best player in terms of performance, goals, assists and mom.

https://www.publico.pt/2022/12/10/d...lise-individual-jogadores-portugueses-2030962

Analysis of the best players against Marocco, Pepe, Bruno and Felix with the best scores

https://cnnportugal.iol.pt/videos/q...joao-felix-fernandes/639cad9d0cf27230dc1dedbc

Again one of the best players by CNN Portugal

https://observador.pt/programas/emissao-especial/mundial-2022-as-notas-aos-jogadores-de-portugal/

Again one of the best according to Augusto Inácio. Former Portugal NT player who played WC and Euros, active manager and pundit.

Near consensus that he's one of the top players in our National team. Unanimous regarding the importance. No one bar Magic what his name talks about the fit. Two goals, 3 assists and 5 clear cut chances created in the world cup, the biggest competition national team wise. And you talk of fit and of freaking Leão. Portugal will have plenty of problems without Ronaldo and Bruno Fernandes isn't one of them.

When there's a consensus or near unanimous consensus about a player in pundits, former national team player and managers that destroys the little credibility you have.

Revisionism because of a bad phase is arguing in bad faith and distortion of the truth.

Again I give no credibility or relevance to your claims. You are wasting both of our times and speaking of things you don't know. You have no authority or knowledge of portuguese football or media.
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Mate - I literally agreed with you that he was one of the better performers at the WC. I just think he is an awkward fit with Bernardo - and that they played below par vs. Morocco which ultimately cost the Selecao. You are the one who is wasting your time trying to argue against something I never actually said.

I don't think I'm some sort of authority on Portuguese football and never argued as such - the only thing I said was that even the SportingUistas I watched the WC with disagreed that Bruno was the best player. I haven't the foggiest why this has spiraled out of control as some sort of controversial position given all the links you've posted more or less agree with me?
 
Well I wouldn't need to watch match of the day to find out we lost and that Bruno didn't have the best of games.

It's a given as soon as this thread resurfaces.
 
Sly said:
:lol:

OK now I really give no credibility to your post. You know better than Rui Santos, David Borges and Ribeiro Cristóvão. I see that you really know nothing of portuguese football scene. I didn't mention Dani, Abel Xavier or Freitas Lobo. All the pundits I mentioned are veteran journalists with decades following our football. They have much more credibility than you and your so called mates. Don't address me again, got no time to waste with a smart-ass that thinks that knows more than he really knows. Stick to Chelsea. You know nothing of our football scene. Ridiculous post, implying that you know more than those journalists.
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"Spending 100mil on Antony was tragic. I don't have the same faith on this player as I have on EtH"


So you're a rules for me but not for thee type of person, as you were doing what you accused that poster off a few posts back with your, I've no faith in Antony unlike ten hag, so you know more than ten hag ? As I'll take it, you meant the word "in" rather than "on" ?
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Mate - I literally agreed with you that he was one of the better performers at the WC. I just think he is an awkward fit with Bernardo - and that they played below par vs. Morocco which ultimately cost the Selecao. You are the one who is wasting your time trying to argue against something I never actually said.

I don't think I'm some sort of authority on Portuguese football and never argued as such - the only thing I said was that even the SportingUistas I watched the WC with disagreed that Bruno was the best player. I haven't the foggiest why this has spiraled out of control as some sort of controversial position given all the links you've posted more or less agree with me?
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The problem is what you said about Bruno in the national team and his fit. The problem is not him but Bernardo who never reach City level in our National team.

I argue with vehemence regarding Bruno's fit in our National team because I really think he will be one of the best after the Ronaldo eventual retirement. Production, personality says so.

Also took issue with your remark regarding portuguese media/pundits. Sounded condescending crap from a foreigner who doesn't really know what he is talking about.
 
Cascarino said:
Sly it's a football forum, you can just disagree with someone and call them an idiot. You don't have to keep saying " YOU DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITAH" "WHO GAVE YOU THE AUTHORITAH" "ON WHAT AUTHORITAH DO YOU SPEAK"
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:lol:

Tbf he was talking about stuff he clearly has no clue about but I guess I was a bit harsh.
 
Cascarino said:
Fair! the authority just made me laugh, not sure why tbh! :lol:
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I'm a bit emotional tonight. Sporting season ticket holder but with a soft spot for United as seen by the 11k posts since 2013. The 7-0 defeat really ruined my Sunday and Bruno was really poor to make matters even worse as a former Sporting player.
 
Sly said:
The problem is what you said about Bruno in the national team and his fit. The problem is not him but Bernardo who never reach City level in our National team.

I argue with vehemence regarding Bruno's fit in our National team because I really think he will be one of the best after the Ronaldo eventual retirement. Production, personality says so.

Also took issue with your remark regarding portuguese media/pundits. Sounded condescending crap from a foreigner who doesn't really know what he is talking about.
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Apologies if you misunderstood - but my point wasn't that Portuguese pundits are bad specifically, it's that more or less all pundits are bad regardless of where they are from and that they shouldn't be referenced as authorities.

Regarding the bolded, just curious as to Bruno's scoring rate for the NT compared to his club sides?
 
Chances created:
2022/23: Bruno 69 (#3 in the league), Eriksen 25, Dalot 25, Shaw 23, Fred 22, Sancho 21.
2021/22: Bruno 89 (#2 in the league), Sancho 41, Shaw 39, Fred 28, Telles 26, Ronaldo 26, Pogba 24, McTominay 23.
2020/21: Bruno 95 (#1 in the league), Shaw 72, Rashford 43, AWB 31, Pogba 26, Fred 25.
2019/20: Fred 35, Rashford 33, Pereira 32, Bruno 30 (played 14 games), Pogba 30, Martial 30, James 26, AWB 25, Lingard 20

The lot of you that want to bench the guy that I've highlighted, what's your game plan then? How do we win the games? Who's going to create our chances?

Genuine question that. In my eyes Bruno is the only undroppable player we have because no-one is doing what he does, regardless of how frustrating he can be at times.
 
tenpoless said:
Need to be benched and rested.
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Trying to rest Bruno be like

kicking-mad.gif
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Apologies if you misunderstood - but my point wasn't that Portuguese pundits are bad specifically, it's that more or less all pundits are bad regardless of where they are from and that they shouldn't be referenced as authorities.

Regarding the bolded, just curious as to Bruno's scoring rate for the NT compared to his club sides?
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Why take this stance? There are plenty of good pundits in England, Portugal, Spain etc. It's not all black and white. You just have to be careful with who you listen too. That's why I specifically mentioned those names that are regarded as top pundits in Portugal due to experience and knowledge.

You specifically mentioned the state of the Portuguese media tbf reminding me of the condescending crap I usually hear from "expats" (not saying you are one) regarding the state of our country.

But I'm dragging this on and it's getting completely out of topic so we will have to disagree regarding the importance, fit and impact of Bruno at the Portuguese national team.
 
My buddy who was there said the worst takeaway for us was Fernandes antics, not captain caliber.
PSV said:
Chances created:
2022/23: Bruno 69 (#3 in the league), Eriksen 25, Dalot 25, Shaw 23, Fred 22, Sancho 21.
2021/22: Bruno 89 (#2 in the league), Sancho 41, Shaw 39, Fred 28, Telles 26, Ronaldo 26, Pogba 24, McTominay 23.
2020/21: Bruno 95 (#1 in the league), Shaw 72, Rashford 43, AWB 31, Pogba 26, Fred 25.
2019/20: Fred 35, Rashford 33, Pereira 32, Bruno 30 (played 14 games), Pogba 30, Martial 30, James 26, AWB 25, Lingard 20

The lot of you that want to bench the guy that I've highlighted, what's your game plan then? How do we win the games? Who's going to create our chances?

Genuine question that. In my eyes Bruno is the only undroppable player we have because no-one is doing what he does, regardless of how frustrating he can be at times.
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That’s extemely impressive, and I immediately thought of Ronaldo but was he top three in the league for goals- honestly can’t remember.



He is clearly extemely valuable but for me it’s his whining around the pitch, don’t think that’s helpful for us as a team.
 
Sly said:
Why take this stance? There are plenty of good pundits in England, Portugal, Spain etc. It's not all black and white. You just have to be careful with who you listen too. That's why I specifically mentioned those names that are regarded as top pundits in Portugal due to experience and knowledge.

You specifically mentioned the state of the Portuguese media tbf reminding me of the condescending crap I usually hear from "expats" (not saying you are one) regarding the state of our country.

But I'm dragging this on and it's getting completely out of topic so we will have to disagree regarding the importance, fit and impact of Bruno at the Portuguese national team.
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My point is that no pundit is right 100% of the time, no matter how good they are - so therefore citing them as some sort of authority who can't be wrong is shortsighted!

But you are absolutely right - I was needlessly condescending towards the journalism here and that was wrong of me. My sincere apologies if I (understandably) came across as much more of an irritating dickhead than I am on a day-to-day basis!

Se quiser beber umas cervejas, eu pago!
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
My point is that no pundit is right 100% of the time, no matter how good they are - so therefore citing them as some sort of authority who can't be wrong is shortsighted!

But you are absolutely right - I was needlessly condescending towards the journalism here and that was wrong of me. My sincere apologies if I (understandably) came across as much more of an irritating dickhead than I am on a day-to-day basis!

Se quiser beber umas cervejas, eu pago!
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No worries. I'm usually more peaceful but I admit I was in a bad mood due to United's humiliation and some remarks that give me bad memories of certain encounters.

My apologies for the harsh words and reaction.

I'll be having plenty of beers this week tbf since I predict an humiliating defeat by Sporting against Arsenal for the Europa League.
 
Sly said:
No worries. I'm usually more peaceful but I admit I was in a bad mood due to United's humiliation and some remarks that give me bad memories of certain encounters.

My apologies for the harsh words and reaction.

I'll be having plenty of beers this week tbf since I predict an humiliating defeat by Sporting against Arsenal for the Europa League.
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Hah my FIL will possibly be out of town so I hope to be there for that one - and despite my wife's allegiance to Benfica I will definitely do my best Sportinguista impression!
 
PSV said:
Chances created:
2022/23: Bruno 69 (#3 in the league), Eriksen 25, Dalot 25, Shaw 23, Fred 22, Sancho 21.
2021/22: Bruno 89 (#2 in the league), Sancho 41, Shaw 39, Fred 28, Telles 26, Ronaldo 26, Pogba 24, McTominay 23.
2020/21: Bruno 95 (#1 in the league), Shaw 72, Rashford 43, AWB 31, Pogba 26, Fred 25.
2019/20: Fred 35, Rashford 33, Pereira 32, Bruno 30 (played 14 games), Pogba 30, Martial 30, James 26, AWB 25, Lingard 20

The lot of you that want to bench the guy that I've highlighted, what's your game plan then? How do we win the games? Who's going to create our chances?

Genuine question that. In my eyes Bruno is the only undroppable player we have because no-one is doing what he does, regardless of how frustrating he can be at times.
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Eriksen with 25 chances created STILL has more assists than Bruno despite missing the last six weeks. Sometimes less is more. Perhaps Bruno consistently being near the top of these charts every season, despite being absolutely terrible last season for example, isn’t the solution and given the lack of success is perhaps is part of the problem.

Like when Ruud left and we suddenly started winning things because we didn’t have one player hogging the attacking third. More players suddenly had an increase in productivity and the team improved massively
 
Our captain should be Casemiro or Varane. Bruno is not there yet, and he is not emotionally stable. Pathetic performance from the captain when the team needed him the most.
 
PSV said:
Chances created:
2022/23: Bruno 69 (#3 in the league), Eriksen 25, Dalot 25, Shaw 23, Fred 22, Sancho 21.
2021/22: Bruno 89 (#2 in the league), Sancho 41, Shaw 39, Fred 28, Telles 26, Ronaldo 26, Pogba 24, McTominay 23.
2020/21: Bruno 95 (#1 in the league), Shaw 72, Rashford 43, AWB 31, Pogba 26, Fred 25.
2019/20: Fred 35, Rashford 33, Pereira 32, Bruno 30 (played 14 games), Pogba 30, Martial 30, James 26, AWB 25, Lingard 20

The lot of you that want to bench the guy that I've highlighted, what's your game plan then? How do we win the games? Who's going to create our chances?

Genuine question that. In my eyes Bruno is the only undroppable player we have because no-one is doing what he does, regardless of how frustrating he can be at times.
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He definitely has to play. But in the long run I think either he has to adapt or we have to build a squad where we are able to use other options to control games better. There are times when players like DDG, Bruno etc make it impossible to do anything but play on the break.
 
Water Melon said:
Our captain should be Casemiro or Varane. Bruno is not there yet, and he is not emotionally stable. Pathetic performance from the captain when the team needed him the most.
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Yeah absolutely dead leadership
 
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