And can't get into their team ahead of a 34-year-old Willian, we got lucky Bielsa had a thing for him.
Shame, we wasted that money on Ronaldo instead of buying a midfielder.
We need more players like Dan James
- Thread starter Stig
- Start date
And can't get into their team ahead of a 34-year-old Willian, we got lucky Bielsa had a thing for him.
Shame, we wasted that money on Ronaldo instead of buying a midfielder.
The reason United made a profit selling Dan James was because he was purchased from a Championship club for £16 million. It was a low risk, low reward signing. He's fast and works hard and is good enough for mid table and lower PL clubs so United were able to move him on for that kind of fee.
If Sancho ends up being a flop we won't be getting £90 million pounds by selling him off after 2 or 3 seasons, we'll be getting a fee fitting a player who's only good enough for a mid table PL club, probably £25-30 million, maybe even less because his wages are so high.
If Sancho ends up being a flop we won't be getting £90 million pounds by selling him off after 2 or 3 seasons, we'll be getting a fee fitting a player who's only good enough for a mid table PL club, probably £25-30 million, maybe even less because his wages are so high.
Last edited:
He's an attacking player. His job wasn't to avoid losing games, it was to help win them. Something he was demonstrably terrible at, with his complete lack of end product beyond a purple patch in the first three games:
Our results in 2019/20 can be very neatly split into the first 24 league games of the season (midtable, 1.4 points per game and 1.5 goals per game), and the final 14 games (Champions League form, 2.3 points per game, 2.3 goals per game).
The biggest difference between the two versions, as most people know, was Fernandes. But equally important in my book: James was a constant starter in the first set, and mostly a non-entity in the second one (with Greenwood ready to start PL games by then), coming on in the last ten minutes to close games out - which is about the only thing a Champions League club should be using a player of his ability for.
I think should be more like what Liverpool have done. Developed some semi decent youngsters and sell them for a ridiculous fee.
Wes and Park were talented players. They weren’t in the team because their only quality was hard work.
What we need to do, above all else, is sell players when they still have some value, but before proving to the world that they are not up to it at the top level. A good example is Elanga. He has had some good games, but by and large you can see that he does not have the requisite innate ability. We should sell him and can make a tidy sum off of him rather than persisting with him for many years, only to then finally accept he’s not up to it and lose him for free or at a discounted price, having wasted a few years of everyone’s time.
We don’t, and I’m very happy you’re nowhere near a position of decision making at the club
He played plenty of games where we lacked an edge going forward, partly because of him. He started 26 league games for us in 19/20. That simply wasnt worth making £10 million
Sancho has a lot to do to come close to being worth the long pursuit and overlooked players we could have got instead and then the fee for him. That doesnt mean the James deal was any better, it just means the Sancho deal has been incredibly dissappointing until now. As he was twice the player before we signed him
Sancho has a lot to do to come close to being worth the long pursuit and overlooked players we could have got instead and then the fee for him. That doesnt mean the James deal was any better, it just means the Sancho deal has been incredibly dissappointing until now. As he was twice the player before we signed him
Even Leeds didn’t want him. Does he get in at Fulham?
I wouldn’t say Dan James is the best example, but we should be more willing to take chances on the likes of Caicedo for £4-6m.
Scout fully, bring them in early and then have a clearly defined loan system (places with guaranteed 1st team experience, with teams that will utilise them how we need, in a league that required similar physical output to the PL) to build them up to then integrate to the first team.
I they don’t work out then chances are we’d still make a profit on the relatively small investments.
Scout fully, bring them in early and then have a clearly defined loan system (places with guaranteed 1st team experience, with teams that will utilise them how we need, in a league that required similar physical output to the PL) to build them up to then integrate to the first team.
I they don’t work out then chances are we’d still make a profit on the relatively small investments.
How much wage did we pay him, and after we take if off the profit, how much is left?
Who says we got 10m for him? We had to pay him wages the whole time? So all in all a loss.
He’s on his descent back down the leagues
United make enough money that we shouldn't need to have players around the first team that we intend on selling to mistable clubs for a small profit.
James wasn't United starting XI quality, but he put in a decent shift for us on occasion. In the end, he needed to move on but I have no regret that we took a chance on him.
Well, at 60K/week, James would have cost us 3m a season, 2 seasons mean 6m. Taking out agent fees all that, we are barely recouping our cost. OK we got James for 2 seasons, plus 100s or so on the bench, and he cost us "nothing". That would be much profitable compared with other flops.
But I do agree with you on 1 thing, betting on a young prospects, even if failed, is a much better deal compared with betting on a "sure deal" who turned out to be a flop.
The last thing we need is more players like Dan James. An absolute abomination of a footballer who if it wasn’t for the fact he can run fast would struggle too have made it at professional level. He’s barely a PL level footballer as evident by the the fact Leeds binned him off after just 12 months and he’s now barely getting a sniff at Fulham. Nice lad, worked hard, ran around a lot…but one of the worst players I’ve ever seen play for United.
We're not a selling club, our focus shouldn't be to buy players that we think we can sell later for a fee. We should buy players who'll improve our squad or have the potential to improve it.
No more Dan James please.
No more Dan James please.
So, we made 9 million in two years? That's peanuts for Man Utd. Not worth wasting out time for this.
No, we need more players like Martinez. That guy is everything I want in our players. From ability to attitude, hes the total package. I haven't fangirled over a player of ours in years like I do this guy. Hes awesome! Dan James might have had the determination, but unfortunately he didnt have the ability that we need/needed.
If my memory is right, Dan James came with the recommendation of Ryan Giggs. So Ole took him in.
Let's not forget that 90% of all United-fans are saying that Andreas is shit - and he has been one of Fulhams best players this year. Dan James wasn't shit - used in a specific system he was very efficient. But he lacked the end-product to make it at top-clubs. But in every game where we countered City to pieces - he was quite good. Dan James worked hard, had a decent strike and was quick - so he was ideal in counter-attacks. But if you dominate a game, he isn't good enough.
So true . Like to add that Anguissa and Kvaratskhelia from Napoli would be the kind of deals we should look at. We don't need a bulky global scout team to source deals like Sancho. A competent team should identify us the kind of deals like Caicedo, Anguissa and Kvaratskhelia.
Bringing the right youngsters in for 10-15m if you think they can develop is wise.
Squad fillers for that money who won't threaten becoming regulars isn't at all.
Squad fillers for that money who won't threaten becoming regulars isn't at all.
It will be better if we don’t have to play them…
Malacia is one. I’m all for it if they have enough potential. Dan James didn’t
What in the Football Manager is the OP on about. You don’t buy players cheaply in the hope of selling them for £10mil profit after 50 games, we were fortunate Leeds had a thing for him otherwise he could easily be what Pellestri is becoming.
The club needs to become better at offloading players, those players do not need to be Dan bloody James.
The club needs to become better at offloading players, those players do not need to be Dan bloody James.
Not a thread I thought I’d ever see. Fair play OP. You typed that out and still went with it, I commend the bravery.
I don't think we do, on the contrary, we need players like Dan James to come good, and be an important part of the team. Just because we made a few quids on him does not mean he was a successful signing, he was in fact an indication of our failed scouting and coaching.
We're going to have to have these 15-20m signings come good. We can't assemble an entire squad with 50m+ players.
Don't remember the last time we had a bargain signing do well for us.
We're going to have to have these 15-20m signings come good. We can't assemble an entire squad with 50m+ players.
Don't remember the last time we had a bargain signing do well for us.
If our scouting would have worked, we could have gotten some good players for under 20 mil. But that's not the case, maybe things will turn out in our favor with the new manager.
David Moyes would have told Anthony to be more like Dan James
I think more importantly its about signing players with potential to be one of the best in the world, before they really establish themselves as such. If they move to another big club it's almost impossible to sign them later, unless they come with some baggage. We used to have our pick from most clubs in the league but we can't just take the best players from Spurs, Everton, Villa etc whenever we want anymore, there's plenty of competition to sign them and the fees are astronomical by the time they've had a couple good seasons at that level (Grealish, Richarlison, Modric). We've been farming Dortmund and Ajax the past few years and signings from those clubs are neither cheap, nor a guaranteed to success in the PL. It's not necessarily possible to compete with Dortmund to sign promising teenagers either, as they can afford to give them more playing time with the intention of selling them on later, but perhaps in one off cases we should do more to sign the some of the most promising teenagers, before they have 100 top flight appearances under their belt and a £100m price tag.
We have tended to hold off in the past 10-15 years on signing players who are at that 'nearly world class and potentially so' level, and missed out on some players we may have signed. Signing players and selling at a profit isn't the aim unless you are Dortmund and aspire to be a feeder club, for United its a decent fall back option if the players don't progress. Selling at a profit isn't guaranteed and requires a combination of factors - some luck and timing (Bielsa had a hard on for James), being decisive quickly and selling whilst their stock is still quite high, or taking the opportunity to do so if it arises even if unplanned, the player agreeing to move, a club being able to afford their wages etc. However, we certainly could have been more decisive in moving on players on in the past more swiftly and for better fees. James was a weird one anyway as there were better players in the Championship, he was bought purely because he had a unique skillset which can be useful to a squad. But the likes of Forlan, Hernandez, Nani, Bebe, Zaha, we did really poorly in terms of what we sold them for, and plenty of academy prospects who we keep too long then sell for minimal fees or for free. Selling Garner for a decent fee fairly swiftly may be a sign of change.
You certainly can also sign players who have been discarded by bigger clubs but it's equally risky and you need to be prepared to get burnt, as we were with Sanchez, Di Maria, Lukaku, arguably Mata, Schweinsteiger in a sense despite being free/cheap Bayern were happy to get rid, Varane is doing well but injuries are a concern, Casemiro promising start but let's see in 18 months time. A few such signings who were successful elsewhere though include Yaya to City from Barca, Robben to Bayern from Madrid, Sneijder to Inter from Madrid, Sanchez to Arsenal from Barca.
We have tended to hold off in the past 10-15 years on signing players who are at that 'nearly world class and potentially so' level, and missed out on some players we may have signed. Signing players and selling at a profit isn't the aim unless you are Dortmund and aspire to be a feeder club, for United its a decent fall back option if the players don't progress. Selling at a profit isn't guaranteed and requires a combination of factors - some luck and timing (Bielsa had a hard on for James), being decisive quickly and selling whilst their stock is still quite high, or taking the opportunity to do so if it arises even if unplanned, the player agreeing to move, a club being able to afford their wages etc. However, we certainly could have been more decisive in moving on players on in the past more swiftly and for better fees. James was a weird one anyway as there were better players in the Championship, he was bought purely because he had a unique skillset which can be useful to a squad. But the likes of Forlan, Hernandez, Nani, Bebe, Zaha, we did really poorly in terms of what we sold them for, and plenty of academy prospects who we keep too long then sell for minimal fees or for free. Selling Garner for a decent fee fairly swiftly may be a sign of change.
You certainly can also sign players who have been discarded by bigger clubs but it's equally risky and you need to be prepared to get burnt, as we were with Sanchez, Di Maria, Lukaku, arguably Mata, Schweinsteiger in a sense despite being free/cheap Bayern were happy to get rid, Varane is doing well but injuries are a concern, Casemiro promising start but let's see in 18 months time. A few such signings who were successful elsewhere though include Yaya to City from Barca, Robben to Bayern from Madrid, Sneijder to Inter from Madrid, Sanchez to Arsenal from Barca.
We only sold James for 25 million or whatever because Bielsa was dumb enough to pay that. Dan James was never worth that amount and neither was Firpo worth 15 million.
James is shit, Firpo is shit and we don't need shit players just because we got lucky and made a profit once.
And as a reminder, James only got into the team when Voldemort went 5 months without a goal.
James is shit, Firpo is shit and we don't need shit players just because we got lucky and made a profit once.
And as a reminder, James only got into the team when Voldemort went 5 months without a goal.
Exactly. We need quality whether it comes for 15 million or 70 million. Sign more Dan James' and we'll be a mid table team for the foreseeable future. He was crap.The club was in for Caicedo. But there was too much messing around his agencies and other crap.
Sometimes players like that just don't want to join a big club because they feel they will get more playing time and develop better at a mid table/smaller club and then hope they get that bigger move later on.
Ideally it's the right way to go, or you could take the Madrid route and spend big on the best 18-22 year olds in positions then it's about 10 years before you have to sort it again.
Young player, cheap so its a low risk investment. I agree with the OP, but considering even the smallest clubs have scouts and connections these days, simply stumbling upon a 18-21 year old who turns out to be a undiscovered talent is almost impossible
Yeah, lets buy more mediocre and limited players. Not that we had enough of these over the years
Dan James was a very odd signing tbh. He really didn't look overly amazing in the Championship, and I have absolutely no idea why we bought him. Taking a punt on someone like Eze, Zaha, Bowen, Toney etc. - who all genuinely looked like good talents and had torn the Championship up - is an ok premise, but Dan James doesn't even belong in that category.
Personally I'd say we need more signings like Martinez