We need 2 new CMs. Who do we sign?

antohan said:
At that price point, for rotation and with potential upside in mind you could take a punt.

However, he is nowhere near ready to be a regular starter in the Premier League, let alone for us.

Flamengo took a punt and hardly played him. He has gradually earned a place as a starter for Palmeiras and the NT, but the downside of his background is quite evident.

You have to remember futsal is played in tiny pitches at high intensity in two 20 minute halves. So yes, he will go all guns blazing and manages tight spaces very well, but by the 60' mark is completely knackered.

I only watched him in three Copa games and he got subbed off in all of them.
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Can he be a bench option and for games against smaller teams in cups?
 
Very interesting profile. He's 1.85, so could be the ideal upgrade to McTominay.
 
Reading the links to various midfielders and it seems to be that there isn't a player out there that can satisfy everything we need to make a perfect midfield composition.

Now I'd say Mainoo and Bruno are amongst our best players, but to complete a midfield next to them is extremely tough. With those 2 as a starting point we are basically lacking...
  • A dictator from deep (I personally believe Mainoo could develop into this, but it might be idealism as he seems to be deployed higher by both Ten Hag and Southgate)
  • A shielder of the defence (Someone to sit in front of the defence and win the ball back constantly)
  • A player that can progress the ball through the lines with ease (Basically ties into the dictator part, but they need to be less limited on the ball than simply recycling it)
Besides Rodri I'm not sure that player exists in world football at the moment so the question for me this summer is which of those traits do we most desire.

For me with Yoro coming in, Martinez not missing as much football and Mainoo hopefully developing more we have got a lot of the dictating games coming from within the squad, but we lack that great defensive powerhouse. Ugarte has a lot of those qualities, but my main worry with him isn't him being limited on the ball, but rather the fact he's a terrier that chases high, rather than just a shield in front of the back line. I think I'd rather we sign a pure defensive midfielder and allow the team to develop the areas we are lacking in.
 
P-Nut said:
Reading the links to various midfielders and it seems to be that there isn't a player out there that can satisfy everything we need to make a perfect midfield composition.

Now I'd say Mainoo and Bruno are amongst our best players, but to complete a midfield next to them is extremely tough. With those 2 as a starting point we are basically lacking...
  • A dictator from deep (I personally believe Mainoo could develop into this, but it might be idealism as he seems to be deployed higher by both Ten Hag and Southgate)
  • A shielder of the defence (Someone to sit in front of the defence and win the ball back constantly)
  • A player that can progress the ball through the lines with ease (Basically ties into the dictator part, but they need to be less limited on the ball than simply recycling it)
Besides Rodri I'm not sure that player exists in world football at the moment so the question for me this summer is which of those traits do we most desire.

For me with Yoro coming in, Martinez not missing as much football and Mainoo hopefully developing more we have got a lot of the dictating games coming from within the squad, but we lack that great defensive powerhouse. Ugarte has a lot of those qualities, but my main worry with him isn't him being limited on the ball, but rather the fact he's a terrier that chases high, rather than just a shield in front of the back line. I think I'd rather we sign a pure defensive midfielder and allow the team to develop the areas we are lacking in.
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Yeah like you say unfortunately we didn't have the right people in place when City activated Rodri release clause for €63m (grrr absolute bargain). So we will need to sign a pure DM and find that high volume passer who can dictate the tempo too. No doubt finding the latter is going to prove very difficult indeed.

I wonder if Ugarte as the destroyer DM and this Rios in a playmaker role could work for now,however feel we would still need to find that passing tempo controller as well.
 
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a CM of Kobbie, Ugarte, Bruno, McT and Richard Rios sure looks a hell of a lot better than
a CM of Kobbie, Eriksen, Bruno, McT and Casemiro

assuming we keep McT
 
With the serious lack of talent/legs in our midfield, I would love to see us bring in both Rabiot and Guido Rodriguez as rotational options, in addition to a starter DM. My perfect midfield for the upcoming season:

Ugarte/Guido Rodriguez
Mainoo/Rabiot
Bruno/Mount

Double cover for all three midfield positions, with Collyer as backup and Zirkzee who can play as a nr. 10. Sell the rest.
 
THere's only one Club in the whole world that has Rodri, and that Club doesn't dominate the Europe. Also Spain in Euro Final didn't miss Rodri an awful lot. So it's obvious that we don't need Rodri's type and/or class to win top trophies.
 
Isotope said:
THere's only one Club in the whole world that has Rodri, and that Club doesn't dominate the Europe. Also Spain in Euro Final didn't miss Rodri an awful lot. So it's obvious that we don't need Rodri's type and/or class to win top trophies.
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It's not so much needing a Rodri, its getting the balance in midfield right. Madrid have a multitude of options, but the thing they have is they can all pass a ball through the lines. It makes the rest easier to knit together. If a midfield featuring Bruno and Mainoo is ever going to truly flourish it requires Mainoo to develop his game to pass between the lines better. Otherwise you replace Bruno with someone capable of doing so and allow Mainoo to build his game around his dribbling skills.
 
Dannn411 said:
Three completely different profiles and styles of midfielder.
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Yeah I was just thinking that myself,should get Rabiot when we move Eriksen on irrelevant of bringing in a DM but don't see it happening.
 
P-Nut said:
Reading the links to various midfielders and it seems to be that there isn't a player out there that can satisfy everything we need to make a perfect midfield composition.

Now I'd say Mainoo and Bruno are amongst our best players, but to complete a midfield next to them is extremely tough. With those 2 as a starting point we are basically lacking...
  • A dictator from deep (I personally believe Mainoo could develop into this, but it might be idealism as he seems to be deployed higher by both Ten Hag and Southgate)
  • A shielder of the defence (Someone to sit in front of the defence and win the ball back constantly)
  • A player that can progress the ball through the lines with ease (Basically ties into the dictator part, but they need to be less limited on the ball than simply recycling it)
Besides Rodri I'm not sure that player exists in world football at the moment so the question for me this summer is which of those traits do we most desire.

For me with Yoro coming in, Martinez not missing as much football and Mainoo hopefully developing more we have got a lot of the dictating games coming from within the squad, but we lack that great defensive powerhouse. Ugarte has a lot of those qualities, but my main worry with him isn't him being limited on the ball, but rather the fact he's a terrier that chases high, rather than just a shield in front of the back line. I think I'd rather we sign a pure defensive midfielder and allow the team to develop the areas we are lacking in.
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Joao Neves fits the ball. He was heavily scouted by us last year but it seems we’ve been priced out of the race for him.
 
luke511 said:
Joao Neves fits the ball. He was heavily scouted by us last year but it seems we’ve been priced out of the race for him.
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Heart-breaking the state the Glazers have put the club in.
If it wasn't for the ridiculous debt situation, I'm sure players such as Neves, Wharton, Branthwaite, Ugarte and De Ligt could all be here by now, ready for the new season.
In the words (almost) and passion of Marlon Brando, "we could have been a contender..."
Ah well.
 
Michael T said:
Heart-breaking the state the Glazers have put the club in.
If it wasn't for the ridiculous debt situation, I'm sure players such as Neves, Wharton, Branthwaite, Ugarte and De Ligt could all be here by now, ready for the new season.
In the words (almost) and passion of Marlon Brando, "we could have been a contender..."
Ah well.
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Yeah along with the £115m wasted on Antony and Van De Beek just to add more pain
 
In an ideal world we would swap Ugarte with Sancho or sign him on loan with buy option/obligation and sign Zubimendi with the money we saved. But we will likely get one of them.
 
aeh1991 said:
In an ideal world we would swap Ugarte with Sancho or sign him on loan with buy option/obligation and sign Zubimendi with the money we saved. But we will likely get one of them.
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Yeah that would give us two different midfield profiles but seems little desire to sign more than one. Absolutely convinced we enquired about terms of Rabiot deal and walked away after hearing them.
 
P-Nut said:
Reading the links to various midfielders and it seems to be that there isn't a player out there that can satisfy everything we need to make a perfect midfield composition.

Now I'd say Mainoo and Bruno are amongst our best players, but to complete a midfield next to them is extremely tough. With those 2 as a starting point we are basically lacking...
  • A dictator from deep (I personally believe Mainoo could develop into this, but it might be idealism as he seems to be deployed higher by both Ten Hag and Southgate)
  • A shielder of the defence (Someone to sit in front of the defence and win the ball back constantly)
  • A player that can progress the ball through the lines with ease (Basically ties into the dictator part, but they need to be less limited on the ball than simply recycling it)
Besides Rodri I'm not sure that player exists in world football at the moment so the question for me this summer is which of those traits do we most desire.

For me with Yoro coming in, Martinez not missing as much football and Mainoo hopefully developing more we have got a lot of the dictating games coming from within the squad, but we lack that great defensive powerhouse. Ugarte has a lot of those qualities, but my main worry with him isn't him being limited on the ball, but rather the fact he's a terrier that chases high, rather than just a shield in front of the back line. I think I'd rather we sign a pure defensive midfielder and allow the team to develop the areas we are lacking in.
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I am nowhere near an expert on him but I watched the Uruguay v Brazil Copa America QF (I think? maybe a semi-final?) and Ugarte was definitely defensive-oriented and wasn't chasing high at all. It looked to me like he was a destroyer, snapping into tackles and winning the ball back, then passing it quickly forward.

I was convinced that he would be excellent for us. I am not smart enough to know if he alone could come in and close the gapping hole right in the middle of the park that constantly appeared last season, or if maybe its a result of TAH's formation/tactics, but I am certain he would be a big improvement on what we had last year on the defensive side.
 
Zubimendi, Ugarte, Neves.

Problem is knitting this player in with Bruno and Mainoo. We can't leave that massive empty space between attack and defense this time, whichever midfield upgrades we get hopefully have more positional discipline.

We've got Mount, whose role is still amorphous. Collyer looking to be a 6 understudy. Still have McT, Eriksen, and Case on the books.
 
if we don't get our midfield sorted out in this window we are going to properly struggle again in the first half of the season....our midfield is clearly our weakness right now
 
Out; Casemeiro, Hannibal, Eriksen, McTominay, Sancho... no AMrabat deal.....£80-90m

Eziquiel Fernadez (Ugarte for 1/4 of the price)
Zubimendi
Desire Doue

£110-120m

Think theyg iveus most options in terms of variety of player profile and versatility:

6: Zubimendi - Fernandez - Collyer
8: Mainoo - Fernandez - Mount - Doue- Oyedele
10: Fernandes - Manioo - Mount - Doue - Amad

LW: Rashford - Garnacho - Doue - Mount
RW - DOue - Amad - Antony

Trims the squad, trimstheaverage age, seriously trims the wages and we have just as many if not more options for each positionwhilst retaining if not improving on the energy, passing, techniqueand individual ability....all we lose is experience.

Rebuilt our midfield and improved our options on the flank....allfor an outlay probably underthe Neves release clause
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Zubimendi, Ugarte, Neves.

Problem is knitting this player in with Bruno and Mainoo. We can't leave that massive empty space between attack and defense this time, whichever midfield upgrades we get hopefully have more positional discipline.

We've got Mount, whose role is still amorphous. Collyer looking to be a 6 understudy. Still have McT, Eriksen, and Case on the books.
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Would be over the moon with one of the first two alongside a free agent like Rabiot (don't see us pursuing) or Guido Rodriguez.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
The midfielders are being linked with are quite boring tbh.
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Might be something to do with the fact we can't offer Champions League and no money either. Maybe if those circumstances were different we would have signed Neves maybe bought Olmo too
 
As Neves seems to be heading to PSG, let's hope they will now lower their demand for Ugarte. I also wouldn't mind Fabian Ruiz. I have always wanted him here since he was at Napoli.

We could go for Wharton next summer.
 
Orange Tree said:
As Neves seems to be heading to PSG, let's hope they will now lower their demand for Ugarte. I also wouldn't mind Fabian Ruiz. I have always wanted him here since he was at Napoli.

We could go for Wharton next summer.
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It will be Ugarte and Amrabat in a cheap loan. We just don't have the money for anything else other than de ligt.
 
croadyman said:
Yeah like you say unfortunately we didn't have the right people in place when City activated Rodri release clause for €63m (grrr absolute bargain). So we will need to sign a pure DM and find that high volume passer who can dictate the tempo too. No doubt finding the latter is going to prove very difficult indeed.

I wonder if Ugarte as the destroyer DM and this Rios in a playmaker role could work for now,however feel we would still need to find that passing tempo controller as well.
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If memory serves me right Rodri was nowhere near the player he is today when City activated his release clause. He developed into elite level at City and is playing at very high level almost all of the time now. But he was not so sought after when they bought him?
 
we need to sign two CM's....that should be the only priority at the moment. if you don't have a proper engine room, the rest of the team will struggle and we clearly don't given our performances from last season

don't understand why we are fecking about and not just getting deals done
 
bosskeano said:
we need to sign two CM's....that should be the only priority at the moment. if you don't have a proper engine room, the rest of the team will struggle and we clearly don't given our performances from last season

don't understand why we are fecking about and not just getting deals done
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Because signing two or three CMs isn't the priority for the club, apart from on this thread. Priority is de ligt and Ugarte plus a right back if they can shift AWB.

Deals aren't getting done, because
a) we need to shift players out, but they are all on stupidly good wages and don't want to take pay cuts to play elsewhere.

b) we need to generate sales for UEFA FSR and PL PSR rules before we can buy.

c) we are playing hardball with clubs in their asking price as we know need to make sales in order to get the players in they want.

All of this takes time. The transfer window is open for months and the two players who we want both played international football and are on their summer breaks. So what's the rush?
 
dinostar77 said:
Because signing two or three CMs isn't the priority for the club, apart from on this thread. Priority is de ligt and Ugarte plus a right back if they can shift AWB.

Deals aren't getting done, because
a) we need to shift players out, but they are all on stupidly good wages and don't want to take pay cuts to play elsewhere.

b) we need to generate sales for UEFA FSR and PL PSR rules before we can buy.

c) we are playing hardball with clubs in their asking price as we know need to make sales in order to get the players in they want.

All of this takes time. The transfer window is open for months and the two players who we want both played international football and are on their summer breaks. So what's the rush?
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The rush is probably because our current midfield is very poor, we are pretty desperate for at least two players in midfield. Unfortunately it’s very likely we will be starting the season with a weak midfield but by the time the window shuts I’m expecting us to be in a better position.
 
Roboc7 said:
The rush is probably because our current midfield is very poor, we are pretty desperate for at least two players in midfield. Unfortunately it’s very likely we will be starting the season with a weak midfield but by the time the window shuts I’m expecting us to be in a better position.
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Yeah can't afford to be dropping silly points in first few games because we couldn't get players signed
 
dinostar77 said:
Because signing two or three CMs isn't the priority for the club, apart from on this thread. Priority is de ligt and Ugarte plus a right back if they can shift AWB.

Deals aren't getting done, because
a) we need to shift players out, but they are all on stupidly good wages and don't want to take pay cuts to play elsewhere.

b) we need to generate sales for UEFA FSR and PL PSR rules before we can buy.

c) we are playing hardball with clubs in their asking price as we know need to make sales in order to get the players in they want.

All of this takes time. The transfer window is open for months and the two players who we want both played international football and are on their summer breaks. So what's the rush?
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if these football guys don't see the midfield as the weakness and the most important part of the squad then we're fecked....our midfield was over run last year in damn near every match and they are just getting older so how is it not a priority???
 
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