We need 2 new CMs. Who do we sign?

aeh1991 said:
Reading that Milan had lined up Man-u Koné as the first alternative if Fofana's deal fell through and that Gladbach would be willing to let him go for €20m. Would be ideal if we can somehow sell Eriksen+Ugarte. He's tall, can defend but is also strong in build-up, playmaking and is press-resistant. Just a bit inconsistent and has had some injuries (although I reckon less so than Eriksen). Still worth a try.

Alternatively I have always been vocal about us bringing Angel Gomes back (he'd also cost below 20m with 1y left on his contract). His technical aspect and composure is what our midfield lacks. Could be the ideal backup/competition to Mainoo.
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No rumours about Kone? Is he not linked to us or will he in the next days….
Hopefully, he is good and a steal for that money in addition to ugarte
 
croadyman said:
Will die on that Ugarte and Rabiot hill, however just can't see us signing more than one midfielder
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I think Ugarte will definitely get done ( even though I'm not totally convinced by him). I would prefer we get Rabiot as well but I think that only happens if we manage to offload both Eriksen and McTominay.

Regardless of whether it's Rabiot or someone else, we definitely will need to sign a 2nd CM if Eriksen and McTominay both leave. Just sincerely hope it's not Amrabat.
 
Not sure why everyone is convinced we need 2 CMs?

6 - Ugarte/Case/Collyer
8 - Mainoo/Mount/Case -
10 - Bruno/Mount/Zirkzee
 
UpWithRivers said:
Not sure why everyone is convinced we need 2 CMs?

6 - Ugarte/Case/Collyer
8 - Mainoo/Mount/Case -
10 - Bruno/Mount/Zirkzee
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Because the assumption was that Casemiro would be off to Saudi this summer. If he doesn’t, I agree we can probably do with just one signing but I still wouldn’t mind us getting Rabiot in as Mount doesn’t seem like a suitable 8 when Bruno is in the 10 role, even if he says that’s where he likes to play.
 
UpWithRivers said:
Not sure why everyone is convinced we need 2 CMs?

6 - Ugarte/Case/Collyer
8 - Mainoo/Mount/Case -
10 - Bruno/Mount/Zirkzee
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Even lookimg at your list, I can see one player's missing. It's rather:

6 - Ugarte/Case/Collyer
8 - Mainoo/CM/Case
10 - Bruno/Mount/Mainoo

Mount is not an 8. Zirkzee I see as a 9.
As for the CM I'd ideally have Kone or Gomes. But realistically Eriksen stays.
 
aeh1991 said:
Even lookimg at your list, I can see one player's mkssing. It's rather:

6 - Ugarte/Case/Collyer
8 - Mainoo/CM/Case
10 - Bruno/Mount/Mainoo

Zirkzee I see as a 9.
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Zirkzee can play both 9 and 10 and has done so for bologna last season.
 
aeh1991 said:
Even lookimg at your list, I can see one player's missing. It's rather:

6 - Ugarte/Case/Collyer
8 - Mainoo/CM/Case
10 - Bruno/Mount/Mainoo

Mount is not an 8. Zirkzee I see as a 9.
As for the CM I'd ideally have Kone or Gomes. But realistically Eriksen stays.
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We bought Mount for 55 million as an 8. Then we gave him the 7 shirt. And now he cant even be back up to Mainoo.
 
UpWithRivers said:
Not sure why everyone is convinced we need 2 CMs?

6 - Ugarte/Case/Collyer
8 - Mainoo/Mount/Case -
10 - Bruno/Mount/Zirkzee
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For the deeper positions that would be Ugarte, Casemiro and Mainoo as the rest aren't suited to 6/8. I don't think it's wise to include Collyer as he's not yet broken through. So I think going into the season with 3 options for two positions would leave us a bit short. We'd probably make do, but it wouldn't be ideal.
 
aeh1991 said:
because he is not an 8. simple
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ETH says otherwise. Thats the point. He was his key signing as an 8 last year. You cant just dismiss what the manager wants. I get what you are saying. But he should at least be considered as a back up if that's what the manager wants
 
Bright_Eyes said:
For the deeper positions that would be Ugarte, Casemiro and Mainoo as the rest aren't suited to 6/8. I don't think it's wise to include Collyer as he's not yet broken through. So I think going into the season with 3 options for two positions would leave us a bit short. We'd probably make do, but it wouldn't be ideal.
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As I said above. ETH considers Mount as an 8. Zirkzee can play 9 or 10. Collyer is just an emergency if all sht hits the fan or just a couple of games to give him minutes like the rest of the youngsters i.e. Amass. So 4 players for the deeper positions - Mount, Mainoo, Ugarte, Case then we might have McTominay and/or Eriksen if they dont leave. Then at a stretch we can play Bruno as an 8 alongside Case/Ugarte and Zirkzee as a 10.
We have loads of options. We just don't have good options in the 6 role hence Ugarte.
 
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Realistically, we're prolly not getting 2 CMs this window

But just for fun, my ideal 2 CMs this window would be 2 DMs in Ederson & Ugarte

Think they complement each other - where one lacks in aerial ability & passing, the other can compensate.

Played together, they can free up Mainoo to play higher up or be benched for some much needed rest.

And in games against easier opponents or in the event of injury, they can substitute each other seamlessly.
 
Fulham game made me realise we also need ball players. Guys that can create because majority of teams will set up the way they did and aim to hit us on the counter.
 
UpWithRivers said:
Not sure why everyone is convinced we need 2 CMs?

6 - Ugarte/Case/Collyer
8 - Mainoo/Mount/Case -
10 - Bruno/Mount/Zirkzee
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Because, we just finished 8th last season (deserved to finish lower) and our midfield was absolutely dreadful. So the idea that 1 signing is enough to spark the sort of improvement we need is optimistic.

We play with 3 midfielders on any given match day, so we need 6 quality senior first team midfielders for depth. Quality depth even more important this season as there's extra European games.

Eriksen and Mctominay are just wasted spots. One of them can't run, and the other is way below the technical standard required to play for this club.

We have no DM with any legs in the squad. We have no reliable high volume passer to partner the DM, we lack a player reliably progressing the ball from deep, other than Casemiro's hollywood passing. There's definitely room for us to sign 2 midfielders who can deliver these qualities that we're missing.
 
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UpWithRivers said:
We bought Mount for 55 million as an 8. Then we gave him the 7 shirt. And now he cant even be back up to Mainoo.
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UpWithRivers said:
ETH says otherwise. Thats the point. He was his key signing as an 8 last year. You cant just dismiss what the manager wants. I get what you are saying. But he should at least be considered as a back up if that's what the manager wants
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Well, if he plans on playing Casemiro-Mount-Bruno as a midfield 3 again then we can kiss top 4 goodbye. It was pointed out last summer that it wasn't a good idea but the club went ahead with it anyway, and it took almost everyone about 2 games to figure out it's not going to work.

You can't compound the mistakes of previous windows by pretending they weren't mistakes, and thereby continuing to suffer from those mistakes.

ETH may have thought Mount would be a good 8, he isn't. It's time to relegate him to back-up number 10 and start giving Bruno some rest in the cup games and easier games.

Mount can cover 8 in case of emergencies, but it should not be our primary plan to rotate Mainoo and Mount for that position. Mainoo needs some serious alternative for his role as he's still young and we're going to play a lot of games throughout the season.
 
I go full Ralf mode-4-2-2-2, do you guys think it will work?

Based on the situation, Mount/Mainoo/Case can form 3 man midfield and Garancho/Zirkzee/Bruno swapping front 3 places.

Rashford/Amad/Hojlund/Antony/Yoro/Dalot/New-CM on bench or starting based on form

-----Zirkzee------------------Garancho-----------
------Bruno-------------------Mount----------------
------Mainoo-----------------Casemiro-----------

--Shaw-----Lisandro------Deligt------Maz-------
 
Dominos said:
Because, we just finished 8th last season (deserved to finish lower) and our midfield was absolutely dreadful. So the idea that 1 signing is enough to spark the sort of improvement we need is optimistic.

We play with 3 midfielders on any given match day, so we need 6 quality senior first team midfielders for depth. Quality depth even more important this season as there's extra European games.

Eriksen and Mctominay are just wasted spots. One of them can't run, and the other is way below the technical standard required to play for this club.

We have no DM with any legs in the squad. We have no reliable high volume passer who can partner the DM, we lack a player reliably progressing the ball from deep, other than Casemiro's hollywood passing. There's definitely room for us to sign 2 midfielders who can deliver these qualities that we're missing.
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I think a big reason as to why our midfield was so poor was massively down to the system and how exposed they were. Ten Hag went with more of a single pivot last season, which differed from the double pivot in his first season, when we finished 3rd.

This season, ten Hag has gone back to a double pivot, and so hopefully that makes us less vulnerable in the midfield, but time will tell.

Based on pre season, the Community Shield and our first game against Fulham, we've looked better as a unit. There's definitely room to improve but last season was a bit of a mess when it came to our tactical set up, which I'm glad Ten Hag has addressed.

Mainoo, Mount, Casemiro and what will most likely be Ugarte, should be fine.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
I think a big reason as to why our midfield was so poor was massively down to the system and how exposed they were. Ten Hag went with more of a single pivot last season, which differed from the double pivot in his first season, when we finished 3rd.

This season, ten Hag has gone back to a double pivot, and so hopefully that makes us less vulnerable in the midfield, but time will tell.

Based on pre season, the Community Shield and our first game against Fulham, we've looked better as a unit. There's definitely room to improve but last season was a bit of a mess when it came to our tactical set up, which I'm glad Ten Hag has addressed.

Mainoo, Mount, Casemiro and what will most likely be Ugarte, should be fine.
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Our last 3 games (FA cup final + 2 games this season), we have to remember we've played 4 midfielders. So it's not surprise we've looked a bit more solid as we've not played with any striker and had an extra midfielder on the pitch, but that's not a long term solution. At some point a striker will have to come back into the team and we'll revert back to 3 midfielders.

It's really a question if we're happy going into the season 50/50 on whether we finish top 4 or we really want to be confident our squad makes us favourites. Between United, Liverpool, Spurs, Newcastle, Chelsea, Villa, you really have 6 teams who could finish anywhere between 3rd and 8th. Competition is fierce.

I mean, watching the Fulham match I wouldn't be particularly happy with the control we had (or lack of) against a lower half team at home.

Casemiro-Mainoo as our first choice double pivot has some qualities between them, but it's also missing some attributes, and to not even have 2 quality alternative players is a major weakness.
 
A young Casemiro and young Michael Carrick would be the ideal. Who they might be I haven’t the foggiest.
 
Dominos said:
Our last 3 games (FA cup final + 2 games this season), we have to remember we've played 4 midfielders. So it's not surprise we've looked a bit more solid as we've not played with any striker and had an extra midfielder on the pitch, but that's not a long term solution. At some point a striker will have to come back into the team and we'll revert back to 3 midfielders.

It's really a question if we're happy going into the season 50/50 on whether we finish top 4 or we really want to be confident our squad makes us favourites. Between United, Liverpool, Spurs, Newcastle, Chelsea, Villa, you really have 6 teams who could finish anywhere between 3rd and 8th. Competition is fierce.

I mean, watching the Fulham match I wouldn't be particularly happy with the control we had (or lack of) against a lower half team at home.

Casemiro-Mainoo as our first choice double pivot has some qualities between them, but it's also missing some attributes, and to not even have 2 quality alternative players is a major weakness.
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Playing with four midfielders has nothing to do with us looking more solid. Off the ball, we set up in a 442, which has been the same, regardless of who we've played up top.

I do agree with the lack of options or quality, though. Ugarte and Casemiro sharing the "ball winner" is ok. I do worry about the more creative role with just Mainoo. Ten Hag will use Mount and Eriksen there, but it would have been nice to bring in a ball playing midfielder.
 
@Bobby_2024

Think that's the formation that suits us best. Cos to me, our wingers are all crap & we don't cross much anyways.

Front 2:
Zirkzee + Hojlund
Subs: Rashford, Garnacho, Wheatley, Obi-Martin
Sell: Sancho

Attacking Midfield 2:
Bruno + Mainoo
Subs: Mount, Amad, Antony, Gore
Sell: Eriksen, McTominay, Pellestri

Defensive Midfield 2:
Ugarte + Casemiro
Subs: New CDM, Collyer, Mainoo, Martinez
Sell: Mejbri

Just that even if we got 2 CDMs this window, we would still be at least another CDM light in the event of an injury to either Ugarte or Case. May end up having to play Licha there as a last resort

Downside is this set-up may be too narrow as will be heavily reliant on Shaw/Maz/Dalot to keep the width & stretch defences
 
UpWithRivers said:
Not sure why everyone is convinced we need 2 CMs?

6 - Ugarte/Case/Collyer
8 - Mainoo/Mount/Case -
10 - Bruno/Mount/Zirkzee
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Some fans seemingly want us to emulate Chelsea's roster building methods.

You simply don't need 6 high quality midfielders. It's too many guys, and a waste of money that could be used to add top players next summer. If Mount / Case aren't even quality enough to be backups, we shouldn't have spent £110M buying them. Them two with Ugarte, Mainoo, and Bruno is plenty.

Similarly, buying Zirkzee for £40M and then immediately making him third string a few weeks later with another striker would be incompetent roster management.

We only need one midfielder unless the second one is some cheap emergency option. Blowing £50M between fee + wages on some player who's not even going to see the field most of the time doesn't make any sense. Thankfully it seems management understands that.
 
bb8 said:
Some fans seemingly want us to emulate Chelsea's roster building methods.

You simply don't need 6 high quality midfielders. It's too many guys, and a waste of money that could be used to add top players next summer. If Mount / Case aren't even quality enough to be backups, we shouldn't have spent £110M buying them. Them two with Ugarte, Mainoo, and Bruno is plenty.

Similarly, buying Zirkzee for £40M and then immediately making him third string a few weeks later with another striker would be incompetent roster management.

We only need one midfielder unless the second one is some cheap emergency option. Blowing £50M between fee + wages on some player who's not even going to see the field most of the time doesn't make any sense. Thankfully it seems management understands that.
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You say that, but that's what Fergie used to do. That's what City and Real Madrid have.
 
aeh1991 said:
Matheus Fernandes just moved for €18m to Southhampton.. Can't help but feel we should have signed him as a backup to Mainoo if he was that cheap.
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I actually can't believe that one. Absolute bargain.
 
In Rainbows said:
You say that, but that's what Fergie used to do. That's what City and Real Madrid have.
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I don't know Madrid's roster well enough, but don't agree on City. They don't stack depth at all. They've gone the opposite in investing huge money in a few of the world's absolute elite players.
  • Who's the backup to Haaland? No particular other striker to speak of. We've got two big money signings in the last 12 months and people are still clamoring for Toney. If Hojlund and Zirkzee aren't good enough, we'd have been far better off paying a bit more to get 1 guy who actually addresses the position. You'd be spending more than it costs for Haaland/Mbappe for all three of these guys.
  • At winger they've got three total returning contributes and added Savinho
  • In midfield it's basically four players: Rodri, KDB, Silva, Kovacic. They bought world class guys rather than spreading the money around. One other sizeable signing in Nunes, who hasn't shown much. Folks here want us to spend big on a sixth midfielder
  • In goal they just have Ederson
  • Defense is deeper than the rest of the team, that's maybe the closest with 7-8 contributors
 
UpWithRivers said:
ETH says otherwise. Thats the point. He was his key signing as an 8 last year. You cant just dismiss what the manager wants. I get what you are saying. But he should at least be considered as a back up if that's what the manager wants
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Initially he did think that, but the recent usage of Mount on the 10 (forcing Bruno to play false nine) pretty much implies that Ten hag has realized Mount is not efficient as a no.8.
 
aeh1991 said:
Even lookimg at your list, I can see one player's missing. It's rather:

6 - Ugarte/Case/Collyer
8 - Mainoo/CM/Case
10 - Bruno/Mount/Mainoo

Mount is not an 8. Zirkzee I see as a 9.
As for the CM I'd ideally have Kone or Gomes. But realistically Eriksen stays.
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6 - Ugarte / Casemiro
8 - Mainoo / Eriksen or McTominay
10 - Bruno / Mount

Obviously with these players you could also play Casemiro - Ugarte or Mount as an 8 etc.

Personally I would keep McTominay for another year as a homegrown high energy utility player. He earns half as much as Eriksen who turns 33.
 
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