We don't talk about Bruno...

There’s probably a perception that we’ve dragged Bruno down to our level. He was on fire for ages but when the team declined so did he. He’s not been very good but then neither has anybody else. I think the reverse is true as well, and if we find some form under Ten Hag then he’ll be back in the thick of it.
 
He's living off his first year at the club.

To be fair, everyone know he's been rubbish of late, but it would be nice to have a team that doesn't collectively surrender games against average teams. But in a team of Mctominays and Dalots, the focus is naturally less on him.

Long term, I'd say he is a worry unless he can tighten up his game.
 
JPRouve said:
His performance thread hasn't been bumped since monday. The OP has a point.
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We haven’t played since Saturday. Luke Shaw and Fred’s haven’t been bumped since then either. Their names don’t fit the title of a song that has drifted into insignificance.
 
acnumber9 said:
We haven’t played since Saturday. Luke Shaw and Fred’s haven’t been bumped since then either. Their names don’t fit the title of a song that has drifted into insignificance.
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Tbf I think it has become the biggest Disney song ever.
 
Check his performance thread, Bruno gets hammered on here with the usual Redcafe mix of fair criticisms of his current form, bizarre rewriting of history about his previous form and a smattering of oddly personal attacks on his character.

If he gets dropped going forward it wouldn't be unfair given his form, but I don't think his presence in the team is him getting special treatment, it's just a lack of viable alternatives. Eriksen might be a better shout there, but pushing Eriksen up puts us right back into the the old McTominay/Fred pairing in midfield, and ETH clearly wants a decent passer in there.
 
Never thought he's good enough for a top team, and nothing I've seen has changed my mind.

Any half-decent number 10 can pull the numbers he has pulled, if they were given the license to try as many Hollywood passes as Ole gave him.

Petulant and blames his teammates when messes up as well. Just the fact that the rest of our squad is so shit has meant he's not been given too much attention, but he is not the answer.
 
Jacob said:
To be fair, if we only renewed contracts for players in form, we wouldnt have any players left.
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But if we got into the habit of ignoring red flags and renewing non-performers we'd end up with a squad full of deadwood and overpa...you know what, nevermind.
 
acnumber9 said:
We haven’t played since Saturday. Luke Shaw and Fred’s haven’t been bumped since then either. Their names don’t fit the title of a song that has drifted into insignificance.
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Would you say that Bruno has been as crticized as Fred and Shaw in other threads? Let's say shaw because Fred was a poor example on your part since he has his own bashing Fred alongside McTominay.

I don't think that Bruno is ignored but it's clear that he is getting a far easier ride than most players even though he has been as bad in the past 18 months.
 
JPRouve said:
Would you say that Bruno has been as crticized as Fred and Shaw in other threads? Let's say shaw because Fred was a poor example on your part since he has his own bashing Fred alongside McTominay.

I don't think that Bruno is ignored but it's clear that he is getting a far easier ride than most players even though he has been as bad in the past 18 months.
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I dont think he gets a far easier ride than other players, he does get alot of criticism.

Also, some players get less because of the credit they have built, Bruno went 12 months based on the credit he had, this season you can see that the credit is running dry and he is getting it as much as others.

In contrast, other players have not had any credit
 
romufc said:
I dont think he gets a far easier ride than other players, he does get alot of criticism.

Also, some players get less because of the credit they have built, Bruno went 12 months based on the credit he had, this season you can see that the credit is running dry and he is getting it as much as others.

In contrast, other players have not had any credit
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But doesn't your second sentence indicate that he gets an easier ride?
 
He's getting a huge free pass while others take the flak. His performances have been absolutely woeful all year. The new contract was a joke.
 
No he hasn't. Not from me anyway. He is not in my team for Liverpool.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Your implication is that this easier ride is not merited. The point being made to you is that, yes, he's not as reviled as the most unpopular players in our squad but there's a good reason for that.
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No, nothing is implied.
 
He has really showed his limitations over the past 12 months, his finishing has also been lacklustre.

He's lucky that fans have targeted Maguire, Scott, Rashford in front of him.
 
He’s a bum. Awful player.

United has been so shite for so long most fans wanted a hero and went with this guy despite him not being very good. Now some folks don’t want to walk it back. Still remember saying we would soon regret his new deal when it was announced and people jumped on me for it.
 
I have been bashing him a lot. McFred + Bruno midfield has been worst combination to offer any build up play or control in midfield
 
JPRouve said:
But doesn't your second sentence indicate that he gets an easier ride?
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No, he got an easier ride last season. This season, its quite clear that he is not.

His performance thread shows it.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’d say your implication in this post is pretty clear.
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Quote the first post that you disagreed with. I clearly stated that I'm under the impression that Bruno is judged fairly. Now where the OP has a point is that in comparison to other players he has an easy ride, if you want me to imply something it will be that other players are treated unfairly, they shouldn't be bashed because as I already stated and you quoted, it's not the thing to do.
 
romufc said:
No, he got an easier ride last season. This season, its quite clear that he is not.

His performance thread shows it.
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So he got an easy ride then. The OP didn't limit that point to this season as far as I can tell.
 
JPRouve said:
So he got an easy ride then. The OP didn't limit that point to this season as far as I can tell.
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I am not going to sit here and assume what the OP meant/ didnt mean.

For me its clear the OP is talking about now. Not previously. If you want to assume what he means up to you, I could then say he isn't limiting it for 18 months.
 
romufc said:
I am not going to sit here and assume what the OP meant/ didnt mean.

For me its clear the OP is talking about now. Not previously. If you want to assume what he means up to you, I could then say he isn't limiting it for 18 months.
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Dude you are assuming what the OP is talking about, so don't pretend that it's just me doing it. And I don't see why the OP would only be talking about the past two games when he mentions his performances over more than a year.
 
JPRouve said:
Dude you are assuming what the OP is talking about, so don't pretend that it's just me doing it. And I don't see why the OP would only be talking about the past two games when he mentions his performances over more than a year.
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Okay, lets fit your agenda and say he gets a free pass. if that helps you sleep at night.
 
romufc said:
Okay, lets fit your agenda and say he gets a free pass. if that helps you sleep at night.
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I don't have an agenda. I already said that he was judged fairly, you are the one seemingly not happy with that.
 
Not anymore. People have finally woken up that he is actually a net negative for the team. Plus he’s such an annoying character and a diver too.
 
Most overrated song Disney have put out in years. Its not even the best song from its own film
 
JPRouve said:
Would you say that Bruno has been as crticized as Fred and Shaw in other threads? Let's say shaw because Fred was a poor example on your part since he has his own bashing Fred alongside McTominay.

I don't think that Bruno is ignored but it's clear that he is getting a far easier ride than most players even though he has been as bad in the past 18 months.
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Bruno will not be scrutinized to the same degree because a lot of people went in deep early forcing him into conversations he had no right to be in (new Cantona etc) and it would damage their credibility to backpedal and call him out after they had crowned him as the messiah. They went through all kind of mental gymnastics to justify his shit form be it fatigue to poor players to Ronaldo affected him to he'll be back in a possession system before finally accepting he is just shit.

Its easier to not to give McFred a free ride because nobody put them on that kind of pedestal.
 
Like quite a lot of our players, he started pretty well, but is completely useless by now. Feels like he manages to destroy every attacking move he gets involved in by passing the ball go knows where, just not to any of his teammates.
 
Canagel said:
Bruno will not be scrutinized to the same degree because a lot of people went in deep early forcing him into conversations he had no right to be in (new Cantona etc) and it would damage their credibility to backpedal and call him out after they had crowned him as the messiah. They went through all kind of mental gymnastics to justify his shit form be it fatigue to poor players to Ronaldo affected him to he'll be back in a possession system before finally accepting he is just shit.

Its easier to not to give McFred a free ride because nobody put them on that kind of pedestal.
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That's a minority. In general I think that people are fair with him, they criticize him when he is poor and don't when he isn't.
 
Canagel said:
Bruno will not be scrutinized to the same degree because a lot of people went in deep early forcing him into conversations he had no right to be in (new Cantona etc) and it would damage their credibility to backpedal and call him out after they had crowned him as the messiah. They went through all kind of mental gymnastics to justify his shit form be it fatigue to poor players to Ronaldo affected him to he'll be back in a possession system before finally accepting he is just shit.

Its easier to not to give McFred a free ride because nobody put them on that kind of pedestal.
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Why was Bruno put on a pedestal that McFred never managed? What kind of collective mental illness prevented fans from seeing he was just as shit as them?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Why was Bruno put on a pedestal that McFred never managed? What kind of collective mental illness prevented fans from seeing he was just as shit as them?
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The stats, of course.
Bruno minus the stats is a bigger hindrance to the team than Fred or McTominay.
 
He is useful when he is more disciplined with this game and positioning but he is more detrimental to the team when he is not.
 
JPRouve said:
Would you say that Bruno has been as crticized as Fred and Shaw in other threads? Let's say shaw because Fred was a poor example on your part since he has his own bashing Fred alongside McTominay.

I don't think that Bruno is ignored but it's clear that he is getting a far easier ride than most players even though he has been as bad in the past 18 months.
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Probably not but as has been pointed out by others, Bruno has more credit in the bank. I would say that his form definitely hasn’t been ignored and that goes back as far as the end of the season we finished second.

People will naturally feel less inclined to pile in on a player they like even if they agree with the perception he has been shit for a long time. There remains a hope that he will return to the player he was. In other players cases, they never were good enough.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Why was Bruno put on a pedestal that McFred never managed? What kind of collective mental illness prevented fans from seeing he was just as shit as them?
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It's in United fan's nature to want a hero/messiah tbh, and people wanted to believe he was that guy. It's even happened (prematurely IMO) with the manager since his appointment was announced.

I mean, there was seemingly a 'collective mental illness' in Bruno's early months from many football watchers who continuously drew comparisons with 'another United number 18', despite the fact that the two players could not be more different and there was never any indication of Bruno being the new Scholes. Football opinions are often formed lazily and sold wholesale. Many people seemingly don't have the capacity to watch a football match, or a series of football matches, and trust the fact that they have watched hundreds of them over the years and form their own opinions. It seems as if people don't even know what they think about something until they read twitter.

And then also, a large part of that laziness is distilling football to a pure statistical analysis. Bruno had great numbers. Common sense would ordinarily tell anyone that you cannot determine the quality of a player based on how many penalties he scores, but that was absent, and it was just a constant presentation of numbers. Others, I feel, actually took the time to watch the game and analyse a performance.

It's all about perspective. It is not that the things that are being complained about now were not mentioned then. It was just that people's need for a hero saw them choose to wilfully ignore things that they have been proven to not like. We've all been on here for many years. People don't actually like when players, particularly midfield players, give the ball away a lot. At the time, they said that they didn't mind because at least Bruno was 'trying things'. I knew, and said, that it will be almost all of a sudden that those same people will start to mind because the reality is they don't actually like it. We just needed the initial period to pass before we could get to a more objective analysis.

You mentioned a pedestal that McFred has never managed, but you can go back to earlier McTominay threads and see that was not the case. In fact, I believe even yourself was a great champion of his a while back. From the very beginning, I was concerned about his poor passing. I remember coming into performance threads right after he had displayed terrible passing, and voicing this, only for the conversation to be totally different because at the particular time - people were seemingly no yet ready to simply assess him as a footballer. It was mixed with the hope of what they wanted him to be. He was definitely elevated massively, people said he was worth £80m, in the top few midfielders in the league, and one of the best players to ever come from our academy. The thing is, he could not pass the ball then either. It's only that people, all of a sudden, care that he cannot - so it is only now reasonable in their eyes to criticise it, whereas anyone who did so before was just being contrarian.
 
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