We can still start a back 4 that played under Ole’s first season.

Josep Dowling

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Shaw - signed by Van Gaal
Maguire - signed by Ole
Lindelof - signed by Jose
Dalot - signed by Jose
AWB - signed by Ole

I find it crazy that we can still play a back 4 of players signed in the summer of 2019 or before. This doesn’t even include Evans whose best years with us were 15 years ago!

This sums up perfectly why we aren’t progressing. Player turnover is too slow. I’d argue all those players aren’t good enough. Maybe Shaw at a push but his injury records means he missed half the season every year.
 
Yeah, genuinely depressing. What are we doing (or not)?

Recruitment was supposed to have been revolutionized.

Just hoping we pull something out of the bag soon.
 
But they have been replaced except Dalot and Shaw who everyone still thinks are class.

-------------Onana----
Dalot----Yoro----Martinez---Shaw

is very different to

-------------De Gea
WB---Maguire---Lindelof----Shaw

Add Malacia and maybe De Ligt/Mazraoui and that's a lot of change. We need to stop making excuses and just get on with actually playing well
 
The Irish Connection said:
Yeah, genuinely depressing. What are we doing (or not)?

Recruitment was supposed to have been revolutionized.

Just hoping we pull something out of the bag soon.
Click to expand...

What in a few weeks since Sir Jim took over?

Have Labour fired the UK after years of Tory destruction?

Some of you need to get a grip
 
Josep Dowling said:
Shaw - signed by Van Gaal
Maguire - signed by Ole
Lindelof - signed by Jose
Dalot - signed by Jose
AWB - signed by Ole

I find it crazy that we can still play a back 4 of players signed in the summer of 2019 or before. This doesn’t even include Evans whose best years with us were 15 years ago!

This sums up perfectly why we aren’t progressing. Player turnover is too slow. I’d argue all those players aren’t good enough. Maybe Shaw at a push but his injury records means he missed half the season every year.
Click to expand...

So are we just not bothering with Martinez now?
 
McGrathsipan said:
What in a few weeks since Sir Jim took over?

Have Labour fired the UK after years of Tory destruction?

Some of you need to get a grip
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What?

Sir Jim has been here for nearly 8 months. And we have a new recruitment team in place starting with Wilcox since a few months ago.

Forgive me for wanting the club to be ambitious and make the necessary recruitment in time for the first game of the season.
Forgive me for wanting to be excited about my team challenging for a top 3 spot which should be the standard for such a prestigious club.

It’s been 10 years and counting.
 
TBF the only one of them I'd ship off is Lindelof.

Shaw and one of Dalot/Bissaka would be part of our starting 11 as they're the only fullbacks in our squad.

Dalot was one of our most reliable players last season and Shaw is one of our best players when fully fit. Maguire and Bissaka are about as good as you'll realistically get in terms of back up players.

So it really isn't that depressing.
 
Tbf, the context is that only two of those five now make our on-paper first choice starting eleven. Those two being players people generally think are good, Dalot and Shaw.

And we're currently negotiating to replace one of the five, and also buy someone who will push two who don't play even further down the pecking order.

If it highlights anything in that time, I would say it's primarily the failure of the Varane deal. A high-profile signing who was outlasted at the club by players he came to dislodge. Other than that I'm not sure I'd particularly have expected that much more turnover.

Especially as other players in those positions left across that period. If we're using Summer 2019 as the reference point then all of Darmian, Smalling, Ashley Young, Valencia, Marcos Rojo, Bailly and Telles left the club from that point on.
 
The player turnover has been far too slow for such an underperforming group. But none of them want to leave haha.

Best way forward is to just not buy any duds.
 
The Irish Connection said:
What?

Sir Jim has been here for nearly 8 months. And we have a new recruitment team in place starting with Wilcox since a few months ago.

Forgive me for wanting the club to be ambitious and make the necessary recruitment in time for the first game of the season.
Forgive me for wanting to be excited about my team challenging for a top 3 spot which should be the standard for such a prestigious club.

It’s been 10 years and counting.
Click to expand...
10 years of Glazernomics doesn't count.

This is the first transfer window with the new recruitment team. Recruitment is one thing but sifting thru the wreckage and legacy of a decade of mismanagement is going to take more than a few months and will be quite the challenge.

Do you just expect them to sell all the deadwood in one window and replace the whole lot? How?

We all want success to return but it ain't happening fast. Certainly not in one window.
Be patient
 
So Dalot isn’t good enough now just to suit your agenda and never pointed out Martinez will probably start Friday week while we have signed Yoro who is injured . Carry on though
 
McGrathsipan said:
10 years of Glazernomics doesn't count.

This is the first transfer window with the new recruitment team. Recruitment is one thing but sifting thru the wreckage and legacy of a decade of mismanagement is going to take more than a few months and will be quite the challenge.

Do you just expect them to sell all the deadwood in one window and replace the whole lot? How?

We all want success to return but it ain't happening fast. Certainly not in one window.
Be patient
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Hang on a sec, I never said I wanted them to sell everyone and replace everyone in one window.

There’s a difference between that and expecting a few first team additions to be in before the first game of the season.

Yoro is a prospect, with huge potential, and Zirkzee is a squad player.

I’m delighted that the Glazers aren’t hands on with football matters anymore and that Ratcliffe has put money into the club, but the recruitment has been poor so far given all the talk.
 
The Irish Connection said:
Hang on a sec, I never said I wanted them to sell everyone and replace everyone in one window.

There’s a difference between that and expecting a few first team additions to be in before the first game of the season.

Yoro is a prospect, with huge potential, and Zirkzee is a squad player.

I’m delighted that the Glazers aren’t hands on with football matters anymore and that Ratcliffe has put money into the club, but the recruitment has been poor so far given all the talk.
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You're expecting revolutionary Recruitment within a few weeks of a new team in place.

Recruitment is still poor but we've no idea how hamstrung the new guys are with the existing deals and contracts in place.
It'll take time
 
It's the first window with trying to end the Woodward tax on purchases and getting rid of the unwanted that are on OTT salaries is easier said than done obviously. Daft UEFA rules haven't helped recruitment either. Of course we could have just given in to Everton and splashed the £70m+ on Branthwaite to keep folk happy. We're in a new era and although frustrating I'm glad we're taking the first steps to undo the mess the Bristol Uni banking lot got us in to.
 
UpWithRivers said:
But they have been replaced except Dalot and Shaw who everyone still thinks are class.

-------------Onana----
Dalot----Yoro----Martinez---Shaw

is very different to

-------------De Gea
WB---Maguire---Lindelof----Shaw

Add Malacia and maybe De Ligt/Mazraoui and that's a lot of change. We need to stop making excuses and just get on with actually playing well
Click to expand...
This. If we get played off the park by teams coming 16th every week, which happened last year, these excuses sound ridiculous.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
ETH has signed 3 defenders, 150m spent. He also resigned Evans.
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You are about £20m over there and that includes all the add ons.

Martinez was £48.5m rising to £57m.
Malacia was £13m with £1.7m add ons so £14.7m.
Yoro was £52m with an extra £7m in add ons. Total £59m.

Base fees were £113.5m with add ons possibly bringing that to £130.7m.

I don't think many add ons have been achieved for Martinez and Malacia given the games they’ve missed.
 
Even more unbelievable a player Alex Ferguson managed is still in our first team
 
McGrathsipan said:
You're expecting revolutionary Recruitment within a few weeks of a new team in place.

Recruitment is still poor but we've no idea how hamstrung the new guys are with the existing deals and contracts in place.
It'll take time
Click to expand...
I have to disagree with you. And I’m not expecting revolutionary anything. Just two or three first 11 players ready for the first game of the season.
I think you’re making excuses.
Let’s see how the end of the window goes, but there’s no doubt it’s been poor so far.
 
To be fair, Dalot and Shaw are the only first choices in that list and they are both good players. And they are only 25 and 29 years old. That being said, Shaw's injuries are a big problem. If it wasn't for the fact that we have more pressing issues then I'd sell him this summer.
 
The Irish Connection said:
I have to disagree with you. And I’m not expecting revolutionary anything. Just two or three first 11 players ready for the first game of the season.
I think you’re making excuses.
Let’s see how the end of the window goes, but there’s no doubt it’s been poor so far.
Click to expand...

Your post literally says recruitment was meant to be revolutionised.

So humor me here and tell me how the new men are meant to deal with the inherited financial situation?
The mega wage deals the likes of Sancho etc are on can't be torn up.
The days of paying stupid money for 29 year old players on the wane are over.

What exactly do you want them to have achieved?
 
People say “you can’t sign 5 players every summer” you absolutely can and for how shit we are, our turnover isn’t nearly high enough
 
McGrathsipan said:
Your post literally says recruitment was meant to be revolutionised.

So humor me here and tell me how the new men are meant to deal with the inherited financial situation?
The mega wage deals the likes of Sancho etc are on can't be torn up.
The days of paying stupid money for 29 year old players on the wane are over.

What exactly do you want them to have achieved?
Click to expand...
Get rid of them for a start
 
To be fair their wages make them very difficult to shift. This transition at the club will take years as we’re stuck with so many overpaid players, we have only just got rid of Martials £250k per week whilst the likes of Antony and Casemiro have multiple years on their massive contracts. .
 
McGrathsipan said:
Your post literally says recruitment was meant to be revolutionised.

So humor me here and tell me how the new men are meant to deal with the inherited financial situation?
The mega wage deals the likes of Sancho etc are on can't be torn up.
The days of paying stupid money for 29 year old players on the wane are over.

What exactly do you want them to have achieved?
Click to expand...
When I used the term I was paraphrasing all the talk and hype from Ineos. I.e. Ratcliffe saying that the recruitment needs to be way better and prioritised. He said that once top people in recruitment positions were brought in things would improve.
At the moment, our recruitment this summer has been as bad as any Glazer one.

For one, I would say that we could have accepted the 20m plus add ons for Mctominay.

By all accounts, the losses that we had made after Covid are now gone from the PSR accounts, so we should be able to spend, especially after Greenwood was sold.

Are you telling me we should be happy with the recruitment so far?
At the end of last season, were you happy to accept that we wouldn’t have signed any first 11 players by the first game of the next season? After all the hype over a new recruitment team and ownership wanting to get us back to the very top?

By the way, I’m delighted that the Glazers are away from the football decisions, but it doesn’t mean we should just accept more mediocrity because new staff are in place.

Again, even though ineos heavily implied it, I’m personally not expecting a revolution. But a new midfielder wouldn’t be asking too much I don’t think.
 
It is what it is. Hopefully Dalot will keep his form from last year, Shaw will have one of his good seasons.

I remember last season in a 1-0 defeat to Newcastle we had 8 players starting that day that had been here 5 years or longer. I know people say "well a good manager should be able to get players playing well regardless" or "it's obviously not the same squad as before" which can be fair comments but it's hard when every fan wants the team to progress and feel as if we can move forward yet you keep seeing a lot of the same old faces. Even as squad options it can be a bit disheartening.

I don't even dislike him or think he's a bad defender, but how is Lindelof-for example- on his eighth season now!? It just feels quite stagnant.
 
The Irish Connection said:
When I used the term I was paraphrasing all the talk and hype from Ineos. I.e. Ratcliffe saying that the recruitment needs to be way better and prioritised. He said that once top people in recruitment positions were brought in things would improve.
At the moment, our recruitment this summer has been as bad as any Glazer one.

For one, I would say that we could have accepted the 20m plus add ons for Mctominay.

By all accounts, the losses that we had made after Covid are now gone from the PSR accounts, so we should be able to spend, especially after Greenwood was sold.

Are you telling me we should be happy with the recruitment so far?
At the end of last season, were you happy to accept that we wouldn’t have signed any first 11 players by the first game of the next season? After all the hype over a new recruitment team and ownership wanting to get us back to the very top?

By the way, I’m delighted that the Glazers are away from the football decisions, but it doesn’t mean we should just accept more mediocrity because new staff are in place.

Again, even though ineos heavily implied it, I’m personally not expecting a revolution. But a new midfielder wouldn’t be asking too much I don’t think.
Click to expand...

I still think your missing the point.

I'm not overjoyed at all. process is slow but I expect it to be slow as its going to take time to get the ship sailing in the right direction again. I don't buy into hype.
I'd love if Antony and Co were fecked off quickly but that's difficult as he's got a beautiful deal and he'll hold on to it. That has a knock on effect on finances and future forecasts. Lots of deadwood have Beautiful deals. They'll want to keep them.

The only way I'd be pissed off with the new regime is if they were working with a clean slate and a big budget and even then you've to expect that some players United will want just won't want to join United.

Its going to take 3/4 years
 
This is neither a new point nor one that hasn't already been spoken about as nauseam for ages in loads of threads.
 
We can still play somebody who played for United under Fergie too.
Change may be afoot but it certainly is not going to happen overnight.
I think people have to be realistic and patient.
 
Josep Dowling said:
Shaw - signed by Van Gaal
Maguire - signed by Ole
Lindelof - signed by Jose
Dalot - signed by Jose
AWB - signed by Ole

I find it crazy that we can still play a back 4 of players signed in the summer of 2019 or before. This doesn’t even include Evans whose best years with us were 15 years ago!

This sums up perfectly why we aren’t progressing. Player turnover is too slow. I’d argue all those players aren’t good enough. Maybe Shaw at a push but his injury records means he missed half the season every year.
Click to expand...

And the counter argument is that we finished 3rd. Yes in a season where our rivals fell off and competition wasnt that fierce but the fact remains we did.

So yes they are all good enough for a team that finished 8th trying to push up the table towards 4th. However we do need to look at condition, form and contracts

Condition? Shaw's injuries put a big question mark next to him. Lindelof's form last season wasn't good and he isnt that good. Dalot was good. AWB was mostly good but fell off towards the end of the season and his contract is coming up and doesnt seem to be signing a new one so obviously we need to resolve that
 
McGrathsipan said:
I still think your missing the point.

I'm not overjoyed at all. process is slow but I expect it to be slow as its going to take time to get the ship sailing in the right direction again. I don't buy into hype.
I'd love if Antony and Co were fecked off quickly but that's difficult as he's got a beautiful deal and he'll hold on to it. That has a knock on effect on finances and future forecasts. Lots of deadwood have Beautiful deals. They'll want to keep them.

The only way I'd be pissed off with the new regime is if they were working with a clean slate and a big budget and even then you've to expect that some players United will want just won't want to join United.

Its going to take 3/4 years
Click to expand...
I think we should expect a bit more than two squad players added for the first game of the season from the new ownership.

No other big club would accept it, R Madrid, Bayern, Barcelona. And we should be aiming for that. At the very least we should be expecting top 4, not consolidating 8th, which at the moment we're well on course for.

I get your point, but there should be balance. I'm not content waiting 4 years to challenge.
 
I still don't understand why Jose signed Lindelof. He is the complete opposite to his profile of players, big, strong, fast, athletic etc
 
RaddyRed said:
I still don't understand why Jose signed Lindelof. He is the complete opposite to his profile of players, big, strong, fast, athletic etc
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Wasn’t that under Woodward though? A guy that signed fellaini because we failed on Thiago.
 
The Irish Connection said:
Yeah, genuinely depressing. What are we doing (or not)?

Recruitment was supposed to have been revolutionized.

Just hoping we pull something out of the bag soon.
Click to expand...
I mean we where never going to rejuvenate the squad in 1 summer after what 15 years of bad recruitment ( id argue the rot started before fergie left) we simply don't have that amount of money.

We have gone out and bought a Striker and some one who seems to be considered to be the best young center back in Europe (yes its sad he got injured but these things happen). We have engaged with other clubs to get options incase we manage to raise more funds/reduce the current massive squad size. Not sure what else you expected?
 
Dalot has earned his place. As has Shaw but hes been plagued with injuries. Martinez walks in, and Yorro was unlucky. Varane has moved on, so Maguire and Lindelof are back in contention. It's not as bad as it looks
 
The Irish Connection said:
Yeah, genuinely depressing. What are we doing (or not)?

Recruitment was supposed to have been revolutionized.

Just hoping we pull something out of the bag soon.
Click to expand...
What can you actually do if previous management put them on obscene wages that no one else would offer. A deal was signed and they wont budge as they’ll never get anything close to that anywhere else.
 
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