We’ve criminally underused Matic and Mata these past few seasons

Mata is an incredibly underrated player.

People say his legs have gone, yet he is just as fit now as he always has been.

Stunning player on the ball, with amazing awareness.
 
hobbers said:
Yes in the sense that McTominay, Lingard, Rashford etc are absolutely dismal footballers yet Ole tried to build a team around them.

Matic is vastly superior to McTominay, minus the pace, and Mata is vastly superior to the latter two, minus the physicality.

Obviously neither Mata or Matic have been good enough to be starting games for a top four or title winning side the last two years. They're just too slow and Mata is far too weak for top level football.
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Sums it up. Matic and Mata in their prime were incredible, but their legs have long gone.

Matic played quite a bit in 20/21 and was brutal every time he set foot on the pitch
 
Both have been at the club long enough and had enough chances to establish themselves and there’s a reason neither did that. Mata was behind Perreira and Lingard at one point because he wasn’t good enough when he played. But a couple of end of season cameo’s and suddenly it’s the clubs fault. Matic has always been good off the bench but over 3/4 games drifted to diabolical. Had this weird thing if running 30 yards to a player and passing it five yards. Putting more pressure on us. He’s the type of player we’ve needed but he hasnt been good.

Threads more a popularity contest than a performance appraisal.
 
Agree to an extent

key thing last night was the lack of Brentford pressing

Still think they should have played more though
 
Mata I think has been underused at times, not so convinced about matic. Brentford never really showed up last night they were on the beach somewhat and the game lacked intensity and aggression. So I wouldn't read too much into last night.

Mata is a strange one underused by both Ole and mourinho who both had a bit of a thing for physical players which mata definitely isn't. But his technique is top draw and he has got a bit of fight and aggression in him and that sometimes is more important than just having physical attributes. Definitely underused in the last couple of seasons.
 
have to say Mata look miles better than Pogba and we looked a bit more balanced with him there. I wish we could have got more out of Matic, at his best he's a class player but I guess (and this is also true of Mata to an extent), he had his best years at chelsea
 
So many times last night Mata had found the space to receive the ball, make a turn and then look to shift the ball on forwards. Even his sideways passing is in the 90's Ajax mould of five to ten yards in front of the player to encourage movement up the pitch.

An end of season home game against Brentford should have been an easy game for McTominay to shine in. Instead he was anonymous and were talking about two players leaving who are supposed to be past it.
 
I’m not unhappy either player is leaving but there is no doubt in my mind that, over recent seasons, in certain games, we were crying out for a Mata type. Good ball retention and good movement to find spaces when playing against two banks of four. Previous managers just didn’t want or know how to utilise him.
 
1 or 2 good games and all are forgiven. That’s the modern United alright.
I just hope ETH has longer sight.
 
antsmithmk said:
So many times last night Mata had found the space to receive the ball, make a turn and then look to shift the ball on forwards. Even his sideways passing is in the 90's Ajax mould of five to ten yards in front of the player to encourage movement up the pitch.

An end of season home game against Brentford should have been an easy game for McTominay to shine in. Instead he was anonymous and were talking about two players leaving who are supposed to be past it.
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I though McT had a pretty good game. He does a lot of the "non-glory" stuff that I think gets missed on TV. I do wish Sky would bring back tactics cam so we could see
 
Mata is a player who can pick a short or a long pass and his movements off the ball is good. But for that to work he needs players who sees the space. Furthermore he also needs a very good DM behind him. He gets pushed off the ball too easily and also he can't defend because he is too slow.
 
The Corinthian said:
Thread title says it all.

Persisted too long with overhyped and careless on the ball Pogba when Matic should have played more. Bruno has been too reckless, and maybe it’s because we always expect the Hollywood pass from him, but having Mata on allows us to build up and progress up the pitch waiting for the moment to pass.

Matic and Mata are two seasoned, experienced and calm heads. They play intelligently. Imagine some of the games in the last year or two where we get nervous and it shows in our play. Ole should have used their experience way more.

This thread isn’t to say they should stay, but there’s obviously something still there that many of our other players lack.
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Matic could have played more, but we really needed a more defensive minded player alongside him, his marking of players making runs into our box is poor, and he has no pace at all, but he is one of the best at moving the ball forward from a deep position.
I agree that Mata should have been one of our main stays since he signed, but I think managers probably regarded him as too lightweight.
 
It's not a problem that we have used them very little, the problem is what we have used instead. Matic and Mata should be long gone, yet we play even worse players
 
I think we could’ve gotten in top four this season with a bit smarter use of the squad. Especially in some home games against the bottom of the table they should often be starters. And of course it says a lot of the state of our squad and recruitment that we have to count on these dinosaurs.
 
mitchmouse said:
I though McT had a pretty good game. He does a lot of the "non-glory" stuff that I think gets missed on TV. I do wish Sky would bring back tactics cam so we could see
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So you’re praising him for doing things no one can actually see him do? The strangest praise I’ve seen. Is passing a “non-glory” thing? The guys crap, you don’t watch Liverpool & say Fabinho looks crap but he’s doing stuff we can’t see. Same with Rodri or any other decent midfielder. He’s crap, time to admit it & move on.
 
Leftback99 said:
Let's not get carried away over Mata. We've seen a few of these good performances against poor opposition where he's given loads of time on the ball. Then we've played him next game and he's been completely dominated.
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Agreed. They were both good but Mata usually gets pressed/bullied off the ball and Matic can't be relied upon to play to they level in a run of games either.
 
Kostov said:
It's not a problem that we have used them very little, the problem is what we have used instead. Matic and Mata should be long gone, yet we play even worse players
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Ain't that the freaking truth. I guess that's what happens when you try for years to build a team around two (basically) second strikers with limited vision and movement who only think about their end product. And then double down by adding out-and-out forwards as the final piece of the attacking trident. You spend seasons watching this and, all if sudden, a player whose movement generates triangles and helps others in a dead rubber game looks like a prime KdB/Silva. It doesn't matter that his first touches (when closed down) are almost always backwards or sideways. We are so thirsty for some proper football. When you think about it, it's the same reason Lingard's "movement" had become mythical at some point. What does he offer, you were asking... "he moves" was the answer you were getting.

Matic, in his prime, was one of the best midfielders to play in the PL. Absolutely pivotal in Chelsea's last two league titles. Unfortunately, his prime wasn't with us. And during that time, he didn't need a partner to do the running for him in the centre of the park. He was fine with Fabregas alongside him. Think about what forced Solskjaer to bring him back into the fold during Project Restart: A pretty much stagnated build-up with a GK who's afraid of the ball, a RB who treats it like a hot potato and midfielders who are, for different reasons each, a calamity with a ball in those areas. In comes Matic dropping between the CBs and picking a pass through the lines (although he has the most misplaced passes leading to goals too) and he looks like Beckenbauer.

We are such a badly designed team, seeing too much potential in younger players and too much ability in senior ones. No wonder our wage structure is the provably the biggest joke in the football world these days.
 
Matic - not really.

Mata - yes, but how much difference would it have really made.
 
Pointless end of season game, but I get the point.

Just goes to show how players with a bit of composure can look so much better than the likes of Fred and McT just by being able to control the ball and pass it.

I also think Mata has been wasted by every manager he's had at the club. I'd love to know what genius decided he was a right winger.
 
Both were probably overlooked as they were not deemed to be physically capable of providing what the team needed.

The difference with them in the team now is that when the team are trying to play with more possession and control, they have the technique and football intelligence that so many more used players do not. McTominay, Rashford, Fred to a lesser extent, they all have good moments but over the course of a game do not show good football intelligence, often choosing poor passes, not making movement into space, poor technique etc. To me that's the main difference and a big part of why we've had a poor season.
 
Leftback99 said:
Let's not get carried away over Mata. We've seen a few of these good performances against poor opposition where he's given loads of time on the ball. Then we've played him next game and he's been completely dominated.
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Exactly. I've said this a number of times. Mata is the wrong type of player for the football we have played over the past god knows how long at United and hes too lightweight, too slow, poor at retaining the ball under pressure and never gets fouls when he is dispossessed. Love the guy. One of my favourite players and if I could keep him as a mascot I would but hes not played a lot for a good reason.

Last night just suited him perfectly. Against a more energetic and pressing team he falls to pieces because we don't play in a way that would allow him to offload the ball quickly and use his skills.

As you say, he will have a random good game, everyone fawns over him and says "why isn't he playing all the time" and then next game he gets completely taken advantage of and mothballed again for 6 months.
 
Squad rotation and utilisation on the whole has been poor.

I agree with those who say Matic has shown he needs using with care, but sure he can do a job still. Looked very good last night. Controlled the midfield beautifully.

I can’t believe last night was Matas first start of the season. He’s looked so good lately, you can see what has been missed by not using him. Hope they both go on to better things next season - fully deserved.
 
The Corinthian said:
There was a period Mata was out the first team squad for personal reasons. I think it was later revealed that he lost a parent during covid times.
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yeah I know that and after that we convinced him to stay and played him even less than last season

mental
 
Well, it highlights what Ralf Rangnick has been talking about for the last few weeks doesn't it...

At United there's a mixture of two types of players...

1) Those with quality but not physical attributes (Ronaldo/Mata/Matic/De Gea/Sancho/DvdB/Martial/Pogba...possibly Fernandes)
2) Those who lack quality but do have at least one standout physical attribute (Rashford/Fred/McTominay/AWB...possibly Elanga)

Clearly, we need players with both. You can't have snails like Mata and Matic playing regularly, even if they do have that touch of class which is useful against a half-cooked Brentford side at OT.

Likewise, you can't just have runners like Fred and McTominay in key areas because it makes progressing the ball through the lines really difficult. It only takes one weak link or one badly-weighted pass and move after move will break-down.
 
Withnail said:
Agreed. They were both good but Mata usually gets pressed/bullied off the ball and Matic can't be relied upon to play to they level in a run of games either.
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Short memories here. People have clearly forgotten that before Bruno, Mata used to get a lot of starts and was physically dominated every game. He was a complete liability. I remember a game at Stoke where it felt like we were playing a 13yo boy the amout of times he got dispossessed.

He has been physically cooked since 2017/18. There is clearly a reason for his lack of playing time.
 
Bit of revisionism here.

Matic has played well recently but it wasn't always the case. He had stretches over the last few years where he was absolutely awful and a complete passenger.

Mata again can play well in games that suit, like last night but with most games in the PL the tempo is too high for him. He just gets bullied off the ball.

It is mental though that Mata was 25 when he joined us and it feels like he hardly ever got going.
 
People talking about Mata being physically garbage etc. which is why he failed - he was never physically exceptional but it didn't matter. At Chelsea he had the players around him to compensate for that with their work rate and exceptional physical qualities - Lampard, Ramires etc. At United you had nowhere near that level of quality in that sense and didn't do anything to address it either.

It's unfortunate that a player who would have helped that - Fred - came with a manager that seemingly didn't rate Mata.
 
After watching players like McT steal a living at our club you can't really disagree with this statement.

Mata hasn't been exceptional for us, but it's easy to see how intelligent he is on the ball.
 
Matic has been really inconsistent but at his best he has put in the best performances in his position since Carrick.
 
While I don’t think Mata could’ve been a world beater over the past couple of years, he definitely deserved more minutes than Lingard. There has been a misguided preference towards players ‘who can run more’.

If anyone observed the pattern of our play yesterday and compared it with any of our recent games, we usually used to keep the ball and slowly used to get pressed till Lindelof passed it to De Gea who would hoof it up. Yesterday, due to Mata’s clever movement and being in the right pocket of space, even if we moved back, he would make himself available to influence the overall direction of play. Another example for Mata was last season against Newcastle away, when he combined with Bruno and Van De Beek and put in the through ball for Rashford for the goal that made it 2-1.

I don’t think he could’ve had like 40 starts a season for us. But he could’ve added quality as an option from the bench especially when Bruno has had many awful games.
 
Champ said:
Mata is an incredibly underrated player.

People say his legs have gone, yet he is just as fit now as he always has been.

Stunning player on the ball, with amazing awareness.
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He didn't look like his legs had gone last night.

Not the fastest, or the biggest, but has other attributes which would have served us well.

As for it being 'only Brentford' maybe he would have made a difference then against all those 'lesser' teams we've struggled against as those speedy physical players haven't exactly been turning it on.

We've been struggling for goals a lot of the season - maybe more attention should be paid to finding intelligent players with a flair for creation, not just those who are a cross between a headless chicken and Mr Muscle.
 
Livvie said:
He didn't look like his legs had gone last night.

Not the fastest, or the biggest, but has other attributes which would have served us well.

As for it being 'only Brentford' maybe he would have made a difference then against all those 'lesser' teams we've struggled against as those speedy physical players haven't exactly been turning it on.

We've been struggling for goals a lot of the season - maybe more attention should be paid to finding intelligent players with a flair for creation, not just those who are a cross between a headless chicken and Mr Muscle.
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Mata is a good player but not sure he was ever a top Premier player. Could we have got more out of him, yes, but as others noted he needs a strong foundation to play off. Same is true of Pogba and the likes of Eriksen. We have not had that foundation nor often a manager who would utilise them to their strengths. Mata was not a Mourinho style player, nor did he suit Ole's fast counter game. Classic example of square pegs and round holes, and more generally the club's incoherent transfer strategy.
 
Mata was a pleasure to watch in yesterdays game. Always moving and ready to get the ball. He made all around him better. Unfortunate that he was not used more in earlier games.
He is a player leaving United that I really wish all the best for. for me a true United legend.
 
Both are class players coming toward the end of their careers.
Mata has always been a good passer. But especially lately can be over run physically.

Matic gives you a strong physical presence in midfield. He has never had much pace and is frequently criticised for that.
But I like him. He is a good solid professional with a good attitude and work rate and will be a very good addition to his next club.

For both, it is the right time to leave for their own sakes. But I had hoped that Mata could become part of the coaching setup and teach the next generation how to pass and find space properly.
 
Gordon Godot said:
Mata is a good player but not sure he was ever a top Premier player. Could we have got more out of him, yes, but as others noted he needs a strong foundation to play off. Same is true of Pogba and the likes of Eriksen. We have not had that foundation nor often a manager who would utilise them to their strengths. Mata was not a Mourinho style player, nor did he suit Ole's fast counter game. Classic example of square pegs and round holes, and more generally the club's incoherent transfer strategy.
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Don't you find it bizarre that players come to us with a good reputation and far too many of them don't live up to expectation for whatever reason, and it's happened too many times for us just to put it down to the players themselves.

Pogba has let us down far more times than Mata, but how many people suggest that he's not a top Premier player. I'd sooner watch Mata with his effort and his creativity than watch Pogba and just wait for him to show us what he's capable of. And wait, and wait...
 
Maybe Mata. But Matic has had plenty of chances and generally never looked good enough. I certainly would have had Mata ahead of the likes of Lingard, though.
 
You have such short memories. Both of them have had strings of poor performances. I swear, all it takes is one dead rubber match against Brentford where they play well for everyone to go crazy saying that they've been the answer all this time. Mental.
 
The Matic cycle: Plays really well, everyone asks why he hasn’t been getting more minutes, gets more minutes, plays shite, is dropped. We’ve just witnessed it’s final iteration thank feck.
 
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