Well, seeing the scoreline...there really is nothing to argue about.
WC All Stars Chain Draft Round 1- E/S/P vs Sjor Bepo
- Thread starter 2mufc0
- Start date
I do agree with EAP to an extent though. If it was Maldini/Zagallo against a better flank like Baggio/Nilton or Meazza/Cafu, I'd be worried and something that might need an upgrade.
He is hard working, but I don't think capable of helping winning a flank or providing the right balance in a formation that is similar to a zona mista even with Maldini in it.
He doesn't have too much to worry about here from the opposition attack on that side though.
He is hard working, but I don't think capable of helping winning a flank or providing the right balance in a formation that is similar to a zona mista even with Maldini in it.
He doesn't have too much to worry about here from the opposition attack on that side though.
Suurbier is an expert at attacking from the deep. He is a constant menace down that flank and despite his workrate, Zagallo will not be able to defend consistently and even if he tries, his attacking output will drop greatly. Suurbier was excellent in '74 in this role and a back 3 will only enhance his effectiveness. The difference is that Suurbier is in his element and playing to his strengths, Zagallo is not.
Yet another landslide, which is quite surprising (especially since here it's so close) — so far all first round games went that way.
Sweet feck...looks like I owe @Edgar Allan Pillow a public apology for telling him that Thuram in his 1998 form is great at RCB 
. In a draft where by necessity we're plonking players from the 1930s and 50s into modern setups I've got to say I'm amazed that placing Thuram in a role he was arguably the best in history at playing has attracted this much criticism. I can only assume that his Croatia heroics are making people remember him as some sort of peak Dani Alves in that tournament. He did a manful job at providing some width in a dour, extremely narrow France team and galloped forward well enough, but first and foremost he was simply a rock of a defender. The stats say that he attempted 15 crosses in the entire tournament - we're willing to forego that and keep his defensive output instead.
Prior to the final, France's knockout stage performances were possibly the least expansive of any soon to be champions at a WC; a 1-0 golden goal win against Paraguay, a penalty shootout win against Italy after a 0-0 draw, and that win against Croatia courtesy of Thuram. They effectively relied on a rock solid defence, with Thuram as it's finest performer, desperate rolls of the dice by unexpected players (Blanc vs Paraguay, and Thuram scoring his only international goals ever vs Croatia), and a fair slice of luck. Even in the final they maintained a really narrow attacking structure, with Thuram playing a largely defensive role and France generally eschewing using the wings to build up their attacks:
The one thing I would have readily conceded is that we're diminishing the chances of any Croatia-like heroics by playing Thuram at RCB, but then in a fantasy match with this calibre of player on both sides you'd hope that you wouldn't find yourself depending on Thuram for your goals.
. In a draft where by necessity we're plonking players from the 1930s and 50s into modern setups I've got to say I'm amazed that placing Thuram in a role he was arguably the best in history at playing has attracted this much criticism. I can only assume that his Croatia heroics are making people remember him as some sort of peak Dani Alves in that tournament. He did a manful job at providing some width in a dour, extremely narrow France team and galloped forward well enough, but first and foremost he was simply a rock of a defender. The stats say that he attempted 15 crosses in the entire tournament - we're willing to forego that and keep his defensive output instead.Prior to the final, France's knockout stage performances were possibly the least expansive of any soon to be champions at a WC; a 1-0 golden goal win against Paraguay, a penalty shootout win against Italy after a 0-0 draw, and that win against Croatia courtesy of Thuram. They effectively relied on a rock solid defence, with Thuram as it's finest performer, desperate rolls of the dice by unexpected players (Blanc vs Paraguay, and Thuram scoring his only international goals ever vs Croatia), and a fair slice of luck. Even in the final they maintained a really narrow attacking structure, with Thuram playing a largely defensive role and France generally eschewing using the wings to build up their attacks:
The one thing I would have readily conceded is that we're diminishing the chances of any Croatia-like heroics by playing Thuram at RCB, but then in a fantasy match with this calibre of player on both sides you'd hope that you wouldn't find yourself depending on Thuram for your goals.
Going to throw my Baggio World Cup profile up here and then feck off and enjoy the sunshine:
ROBERTO BAGGIO:
Roberto Baggio's World Cup pedigree is such that he could feasibly have been selected for this draft in no less than three different tournament incarnations. He announced himself on the world stage in 1990 with some fine performances and highlight reel moments, including this missile-like cross onto the head of Nicola Berti, an act of larceny on venerable old Peter Shilton that would give poor Robert Karius flashbacks, and of course the goal of the tournament against Czechoslovakia.
Baggio started Italy's opening match in 1998 against Chile and provided a sumptious assist, but as he subsequently found himself benched in favour of a woefully out of sorts Del Piero, his tournament was more redemptive than dominant. Four years after an injury-stricken Baggio missed the decisive penalty in the WC final against Brazil that would ultimately, cruelly, define his career, he summoned immense reserves of courage and nerve to score two penalties in 1998, the first against Chile and the second in the penalty shootout loss to France. He made the most of what minutes Cesare Maldini did grant him, scoring this Yorke and Cole-esque give-and-go goal against Austria, nearly returning the favour to Inzaghi courtesy of a dribble reminiscent of his 1990 goal against the Czechs, and then coming agonisingly close to eliminating the hosts and soon-to-be champions France before that ill-starred penalty shootout.
His undoubted zenith, however, was the 1994 World Cup. It remains one of the great World Cup tournaments registered by any attacker. It falls short of Maradona's seminal 1986 performance of course, as Baggio's tournament only truly caught fire in the knockout stages and lacked the joyous denouement. If there are similarities between the relatively workmanlike supporting casts they had, a crucial difference is that Argentina were built around Maradona's stupendous gifts, whereas Baggio was always an uneasy fit for Sacchi in his rigid and rapidly aging conception of the 4-4-2. Baggio's tournament wasn't that of a Cruyff in 1974 or a Pele in 1970 either, although it can be mentioned in the same breath as both. That Baggio's tournament was marked more by staccato bursts of match-deciding brilliance rather than the regal, consistent control of matches exhibited by Cruyff and Pele in their finest performances can hardly be held against him too much. Whereas Cruyff and Pele were the brightest stars in two exquisite teams that were perfectly attuned to their playing styles, Baggio was forced to shoulder much of the creative and goalscoring burden himself in an incoherent and often listless Italian side.
That World Cup can be seen as microcosmic of Baggio's career: an uneasy relationship with a distrustful manager (never more vividly illustrated than when he was hauled off after twenty minutes against Norway), a system that was ill-suited to fully utilising his talents, a constant, grinding battle with injury concerns, yet still he managed to harness his formidable gifts to leave an indelible mark on the competition.
If his impact on the knockout stages in 1994 is unquestionable, I'd argue that his group stage performance was rather better than typically acknowledged:
I haven't got around to making an all-touches compilation vs Mexico, or for any of his subsequent matches in the knockout stages due to my general laziness and ineptitude, but someone has made ones of his performances vs Bulgaria and Spain pleasingly.
ROBERTO BAGGIO:
Roberto Baggio's World Cup pedigree is such that he could feasibly have been selected for this draft in no less than three different tournament incarnations. He announced himself on the world stage in 1990 with some fine performances and highlight reel moments, including this missile-like cross onto the head of Nicola Berti, an act of larceny on venerable old Peter Shilton that would give poor Robert Karius flashbacks, and of course the goal of the tournament against Czechoslovakia.
Baggio started Italy's opening match in 1998 against Chile and provided a sumptious assist, but as he subsequently found himself benched in favour of a woefully out of sorts Del Piero, his tournament was more redemptive than dominant. Four years after an injury-stricken Baggio missed the decisive penalty in the WC final against Brazil that would ultimately, cruelly, define his career, he summoned immense reserves of courage and nerve to score two penalties in 1998, the first against Chile and the second in the penalty shootout loss to France. He made the most of what minutes Cesare Maldini did grant him, scoring this Yorke and Cole-esque give-and-go goal against Austria, nearly returning the favour to Inzaghi courtesy of a dribble reminiscent of his 1990 goal against the Czechs, and then coming agonisingly close to eliminating the hosts and soon-to-be champions France before that ill-starred penalty shootout.
His undoubted zenith, however, was the 1994 World Cup. It remains one of the great World Cup tournaments registered by any attacker. It falls short of Maradona's seminal 1986 performance of course, as Baggio's tournament only truly caught fire in the knockout stages and lacked the joyous denouement. If there are similarities between the relatively workmanlike supporting casts they had, a crucial difference is that Argentina were built around Maradona's stupendous gifts, whereas Baggio was always an uneasy fit for Sacchi in his rigid and rapidly aging conception of the 4-4-2. Baggio's tournament wasn't that of a Cruyff in 1974 or a Pele in 1970 either, although it can be mentioned in the same breath as both. That Baggio's tournament was marked more by staccato bursts of match-deciding brilliance rather than the regal, consistent control of matches exhibited by Cruyff and Pele in their finest performances can hardly be held against him too much. Whereas Cruyff and Pele were the brightest stars in two exquisite teams that were perfectly attuned to their playing styles, Baggio was forced to shoulder much of the creative and goalscoring burden himself in an incoherent and often listless Italian side.
That World Cup can be seen as microcosmic of Baggio's career: an uneasy relationship with a distrustful manager (never more vividly illustrated than when he was hauled off after twenty minutes against Norway), a system that was ill-suited to fully utilising his talents, a constant, grinding battle with injury concerns, yet still he managed to harness his formidable gifts to leave an indelible mark on the competition.
If his impact on the knockout stages in 1994 is unquestionable, I'd argue that his group stage performance was rather better than typically acknowledged:
I haven't got around to making an all-touches compilation vs Mexico, or for any of his subsequent matches in the knockout stages due to my general laziness and ineptitude, but someone has made ones of his performances vs Bulgaria and Spain pleasingly.
Agree to an extent on Thuram. But I wouldn't say he overlapped as much as your typical attacking full-back from today's game. Not that he hung about solely at the back either as we saw when he single-handedly won the semi-final. Every member of France's back four took turns to push into midfield, so that four fluidly turned into a three. Blanc did it regularly, Desailly often did it as well (getting sent off in the RW position in the final against Brazil no less) and Lizarazu was probably the most notionally advanced of them all.
Sweet feck...looks like I owe @Edgar Allan Pillow a public apology for telling him that Thuram in his 1998 form is great at RCB
Prior to the final, France's knockout stage performances were possibly the least expansive of any soon to be champions at a WC; a 1-0 golden goal win against Paraguay, a penalty shootout win against Italy after a 0-0 draw, and that win against Croatia courtesy of Thuram. They effectively relied on a rock solid defence, with Thuram as it's finest performer, desperate rolls of the dice by unexpected players (Blanc vs Paraguay, and Thuram scoring his only international goals ever vs Croatia), and a fair slice of luck. Even in the final they maintained a really narrow attacking structure, with Thuram playing a largely defensive role and France generally eschewing using the wings to build up their attacks:
The one thing I would have readily conceded is that we're diminishing the chances of any Croatia-like heroics by playing Thuram at RCB, but then in a fantasy match with this calibre of player on both sides you'd hope that you wouldn't find yourself depending on Thuram for your goals.
Nail on the head post.
Sweet feck...looks like I owe @Edgar Allan Pillow a public apology for telling him that Thuram in his 1998 form is great at RCB
Prior to the final, France's knockout stage performances were possibly the least expansive of any soon to be champions at a WC; a 1-0 golden goal win against Paraguay, a penalty shootout win against Italy after a 0-0 draw, and that win against Croatia courtesy of Thuram. They effectively relied on a rock solid defence, with Thuram as it's finest performer, desperate rolls of the dice by unexpected players (Blanc vs Paraguay, and Thuram scoring his only international goals ever vs Croatia), and a fair slice of luck. Even in the final they maintained a really narrow attacking structure, with Thuram playing a largely defensive role and France generally eschewing using the wings to build up their attacks:
The one thing I would have readily conceded is that we're diminishing the chances of any Croatia-like heroics by playing Thuram at RCB, but then in a fantasy match with this calibre of player on both sides you'd hope that you wouldn't find yourself depending on Thuram for your goals.
Good post. Agree with it. People get too hung up on who played where in exact terms. I think playing 1970 Pele in his 1958 role would be more of a problem than Thuram's role here.
Think, Team ESP just ended up with a bad match up here. They have a good team but their oppo has similar formation with some better players at key position - namely Baresi, cafu and Meazza. Unfortunately Baggio and Bozsik are getting a bit overlooked too.
Sweet feck...looks like I owe @Edgar Allan Pillow a public apology for telling him that Thuram in his 1998 form is great at RCB
Prior to the final, France's knockout stage performances were possibly the least expansive of any soon to be champions at a WC; a 1-0 golden goal win against Paraguay, a penalty shootout win against Italy after a 0-0 draw, and that win against Croatia courtesy of Thuram. They effectively relied on a rock solid defence, with Thuram as it's finest performer, desperate rolls of the dice by unexpected players (Blanc vs Paraguay, and Thuram scoring his only international goals ever vs Croatia), and a fair slice of luck. Even in the final they maintained a really narrow attacking structure, with Thuram playing a largely defensive role and France generally eschewing using the wings to build up their attacks:
The one thing I would have readily conceded is that we're diminishing the chances of any Croatia-like heroics by playing Thuram at RCB, but then in a fantasy match with this calibre of player on both sides you'd hope that you wouldn't find yourself depending on Thuram for your goals.
Yeah, but the counter argument to that is @Arbitrium said no, so
I’m basing my comments and votes around the performance in question. It’s my own method but when a guy had an other worldly performance as a traditional right back (France weren’t that narrow) then he should be played there, not a position he spent zero minutes playing the entire World Cup. The performance against Croatia was just the culmination of great full back play the whole tournament and then Thuram taking the game by the balls.
I’m basing my comments and votes around the performance in question. It’s my own method but when a guy had an other worldly performance as a traditional right back (France weren’t that narrow) then he should be played there, not a position he spent zero minutes playing the entire World Cup. The performance against Croatia was just the culmination of great full back play the whole tournament and then Thuram taking the game by the balls.
I get it. That’s the good thing about the drafts, things can be discussed with different peoples interpretations of set up, roles etc.
It can be frustrating when people don’t see your “vision” as I’m sure everyone has experienced at some point, but it opens up some good discussions.
If this were an all time draft, I’d probably have gone with EAP.
Something about Zagallo in that formation seems just off @Šjor Bepo . At least to me. He was an industrial left winger in that WC, but I'd rather draw comparisons with Rivellino 10(or so) years later, compared to having Nilton behind him.
Both teams counter the attacking threat pretty well. Maldini, Gentile and Baresi on one hand but then the other way around Kohler, Thuram and World Cup Willi does it pretty well.
To me Socrates would have a great game here.
The midfield two's would battle it out cancelling each other which would leave some space for Socrates to operate in.
IMO @Šjor Bepo only needs to fix that left wing of his and has potentially draft winning side, especially with that defensive base.
Both teams counter the attacking threat pretty well. Maldini, Gentile and Baresi on one hand but then the other way around Kohler, Thuram and World Cup Willi does it pretty well.
To me Socrates would have a great game here.
The midfield two's would battle it out cancelling each other which would leave some space for Socrates to operate in.
IMO @Šjor Bepo only needs to fix that left wing of his and has potentially draft winning side, especially with that defensive base.
If you have 10 minutes to spare check the video of Zagallo i posted on the first page, you will see both positioning and movement of a classic modern wingback.
Regarding Socrates, those are usual 1v1 comparisons i dont particularly like as in football they are very rarely relevant. Both Coluna and Tigana have immense engines and are great defensive wise, both in a 1v1 game and more importantly in part of the game where you use your head - decision making, positioning and movement so Socrates will very rarely have time and space but lets play your game, if Socrates will have time and space to operate in because midfields cancel each other out then surely the same applies to Meazza....golden ball that lead his team to the WC gold medal.
Spot on. For what it's worth, this is what I'd prepared previously for the last tournament draft, but never used it:Sweet feck...looks like I owe @Edgar Allan Pillow a public apology for telling him that Thuram in his 1998 form is great at RCB
Prior to the final, France's knockout stage performances were possibly the least expansive of any soon to be champions at a WC; a 1-0 golden goal win against Paraguay, a penalty shootout win against Italy after a 0-0 draw, and that win against Croatia courtesy of Thuram. They effectively relied on a rock solid defence, with Thuram as it's finest performer, desperate rolls of the dice by unexpected players (Blanc vs Paraguay, and Thuram scoring his only international goals ever vs Croatia), and a fair slice of luck. Even in the final they maintained a really narrow attacking structure, with Thuram playing a largely defensive role and France generally eschewing using the wings to build up their attacks:
The one thing I would have readily conceded is that we're diminishing the chances of any Croatia-like heroics by playing Thuram at RCB, but then in a fantasy match with this calibre of player on both sides you'd hope that you wouldn't find yourself depending on Thuram for your goals.
France '98 defensive structure:
Nominally either a narrow back four or a back three with one defender higher up the park:
Or a back three with one defender up the park:
Some specific examples:
Desailly gets sent off in France's right-wing position, as France's highest player:
Lizarazu high as France defend a long Italian ball as a tight back three:
Blanc leaving defence to overload the midfield:
Blanc abandoning his defensive post to overload the attack and grab the winner against Paraguay:
Thuram scoring against Croatia:
Further reinforced in the final when Petit played centre-half after Desailly was sent-off. Yet Petit still managed to score the third goal from his central defender position.
Zonal Marking on France '98 said:
Bar Zidane's headed double in the final, it was France's defenders who scored all of their knockout goals.
- In extra time v Paraguay, Laurent Blanc stayed up front to finally overload the heroic Paraguay back line and score the golden goal.
- In the semis v Croatia, Thuram takes matters into his own hands to score a second-half double.
- And in the final, the centre-half Petit made a 100-yard run to score the third goal.
Socrates.
Well that settles it for me lads
Well that settles it for me lads
Spot on. For what it's worth, this is what I'd prepared previously for the last tournament draft, but never used it:
France '98 defensive structure:
Nominally either a narrow back four or a back three with one defender higher up the park:
Or a back three with one defender up the park:
Some specific examples:
Desailly gets sent off in France's right-wing position, as France's highest player:
Lizarazu high as France defend a long Italian ball as a tight back three:
Blanc leaving defence to overload the midfield:
Blanc abandoning his defensive post to overload the attack and grab the winner against Paraguay:
Thuram scoring against Croatia:
Further reinforced in the final when Petit played centre-half after Desailly was sent-off. Yet Petit still managed to score the third goal from his central defender position.
Bar Zidane's headed double in the final, it was France's defenders who scored all of their knockout goals.
But it wasn't a free-for-all. They deployed a clear back three to allow the fourth player to join the attack as the opportunity arose.
- In extra time v Paraguay, Laurent Blanc stayed up front to finally overload the heroic Paraguay back line and score the golden goal.
- In the semis v Croatia, Thuram takes matters into his own hands to score a second-half double.
- And in the final, the centre-half Petit made a 100-yard run to score the third goal.
Great post Gio. I can't help but wonder if people are conflating France's 1998 team with their Euros-winning side two years later, where they attacked with far more verve and fluency, with Zidane at his absolute best and Henry hitting his stride as a replacement for the lamp post Guivarc'h. The 1998 side relied first and foremost on supreme defensive organisation and quality, and inched towards the trophy by way of some moments of quality from Zidane/Djorkaeff and decisive interventions from unlikely sources. They weren't playing champagne football all the way through with Thuram camped out in the opposition half.
I’m basing my comments and votes around the performance in question. It’s my own method but when a guy had an other worldly performance as a traditional right back (France weren’t that narrow) then he should be played there, not a position he spent zero minutes playing the entire World Cup. The performance against Croatia was just the culmination of great full back play the whole tournament and then Thuram taking the game by the balls.
They were one of the most narrow successful teams that I can remember, especially from the right wing. Aside from Thuram's second goal (his first came from winning a tackle infield), they only created one other goal from open play from the right wing, and that was via a dreadful fumble from the Saudi Arabia keeper from a tame cross. There was even some very ropey-looking academic papers published about the importance of "Zone 14" in football in the aftermath of France's victory, as they attacked so centrally.
this was a walkover until pat joined the party, edgar come back! 
Sensational drafting really from @Šjor Bepo though. Hell knows how you all let him snap up Meazza in round 8 of the snake.
A lot has been said about how good my defence is but attack is almost as good and pretty much guarantees goals even though 3 stooges have a pretty good defence.
Rivaldo
Moment of magic against Belgium in round of 16
Scoring against England in QF
Nice assist for Ronaldo and goal from penalty after he initiated a mistake via pressing against Turkey in SF
Did the whole compilation for his final game, heavily involved in both goals.
Stabile
Silver ball and golden boot after missing out the first game of the tournament! Guy scored 8 goals in 4 games.....
Meazza
Absolute star of the WC 34, went game by game in his summary so check that out in my OP
and while they have Thuram with his only international goals on his tournament i have the same case with Tigana who scored his only goal for france in 86' and what a goal it was!
Rivaldo
Moment of magic against Belgium in round of 16
Scoring against England in QF
Nice assist for Ronaldo and goal from penalty after he initiated a mistake via pressing against Turkey in SF
Did the whole compilation for his final game, heavily involved in both goals.
Stabile
Silver ball and golden boot after missing out the first game of the tournament! Guy scored 8 goals in 4 games.....
Meazza
Absolute star of the WC 34, went game by game in his summary so check that out in my OP
and while they have Thuram with his only international goals on his tournament i have the same case with Tigana who scored his only goal for france in 86' and what a goal it was!
cheers mane, reckon people were more comfortable with tournaments where there is a proper footage. Check Stabile on paper and realistically he should be more then fine almost until the final if not there as well but i will need to upgrade him if i win this because nobody gives a flying feck about him. Defensive players like Monti or Nasazzi will maybe get the credit but offensive ones are screwed in general.
Aye, I kept looking at his lineup looking for a player with questionable credentials that we could pick apart but the selfish fecker didn't even give us that to work with
.Same for us with Ademir. Excellent credentials but realistically he's already doing us no favours whatsoever and its unrealistic to expect him to get much credit in comparison to someone like Muller. May as well throw up our writeup on him:
Ademir:
Although not exactly a household name these days, Ademir de Menezes Marques, alias Queixada ('The chin') was a truly extraordinary footballer. Top scorer at the 1950 FIFA World Cup in Brazil, he is said to have been one of the great Pele's role models. One thing is for sure, this out-and-out attacker was perhaps the earliest example of a 'Samba-style' artist capable of incredible feats of agility.
A slightly built, even fragile figure with a prominent chin, meticulously slicked back hair and dandy little moustache, he hardly seemed cut out for the world of football. But when he stepped onto the pitch, as if by the wave of a magic wand, he was transformed into a magnificent marksman, an elegant performer capable of mind-blowing skill, surging runs and equipped with a formidably powerful and accurate shot. By dint of the imagination and poise he displayed on the pitch, Ademir was one of the earliest exponents of the now legendary Brazilian attacking flair. He was equally conspicuous in footballing terms, blessed with supersonic speed, skilful, formidable in the air and boasting considerable power in both feet.
A truly versatile player who often oscillated between Centre Forward and Inside Right, he could pop up in any attacking position to equally devastating effect. This ability to appear from nowhere and rip holes in the tightest rearguards forced opposing coaches to develop new defensive combinations in their efforts to thwart him. Ademir, in his era, was the greatest player in the world. When he shot on goal, he didn’t fail.
Jair, Ademir's team-mate for Vasco and Brazil, said: “He would appear in midfield and out wide, and his incredible speed made him impossible to mark. And he could score in so many different ways. He was one of the greatest players Brazil has ever seen.”
Scorer of 8 goals in 6 appearances at the 1950 World Cup, Ademir was part of a fearsome Brazilian attacking trident that was only denied the trophy by an inspired, desperate Uruguayan defensive effort in one of the biggest upsets in WC history. The venerable sportswriter Brian Glanville wrote of that final:
It was, according to Glanville, Ademir's conversion from inside forward to centre forward that precipitated Brazil hitting their dazzling peak in 1950:
@Pat_Mustard yeah, i was speaking in general not just for my players.....you can read as much as you want about offensive players but they cant compete with the guys you watched play.
Aye, agreed. I love researching the older fellas. That draft where I picked the likes of Labruna, Pedernera, Moreno and Sastre is one of my favourite ever, but ultimately its crazy frustrating that you'll never see any footage of them, and as a neutral I find at a certain point that it becomes difficult to give them the benefit of the doubt over their modern counterparts.
The pre-footage players seem to be getting a better than usual reception in this draft so far though, which is fecking annoying for me as we were potentially balls deep in the 1930s after the Ademir pick but I told Edgar to use a break as they wouldn't get any credit
.EDIT: Actually that might be bullshit, as GS fielded Piola, Ghiggia and Andrade Sr and was undeservedly pummelled despite having Maradona, and the oldies largely cancelled each other out in the other matches including Ademir/Stabile here.
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For me this is why
and when I look at this video its hard for me to imagine Meazza in 1934 actually being better than Socrates with the way play in this Cup was described. It was like Rugby.
Will check it out mate and follow up the discussion.
I really like Coluna and Tigana in a midfield two and if you had a wingback in that system other than Zagallo I don't think a designated #10 would pose a problem for you, especially when you have Baresi stepping up.
As things stands tho I'd expect Maldini to cover that left side in the defensive phase and Baresi will have to stay put and hold the line.
It's a fresh approach at Zagallo, but IMO a more specialized LWB would make your formation tick and free up your players to take it to another level.
I'd look at Meazza's exploits with a pinch of salt as it was done at home in Italy in the middle of fascist regime and from what I've read Italy had a lot of help all throughout the tournament.
@oneniltothearsenal yeah that's what I meant.
In the SF as well Sindelaar received plenty of abuse and really couldn't play his game for example.
In the SF as well Sindelaar received plenty of abuse and really couldn't play his game for example.
its a fresh approach because we almost never use this type of formats where its a one tournament peak but IIRC @Tuppet used Zagallo in the same role as me here in the international draft. When we play all-time draft, reserve draft anything where there is a prolonged or a normal peak obviously Zagallo is a winger but in this specific tournament he played exactly as modern wingbacks play + he has only Suurbier to worry about so Maldini wont have much to cover anyways. If he was against a GOAT wingback or in a 2v1 situation id agree that he isnt the greatest fit at this level but that isnt the case here.
Regarding Meazza and that WC, i dont know tbh there is no footage available and you can find articles for both sides, that it was fair and that was unfair, reality is we will never know but to dismiss the whole WC and what a certain player did on the same is not just ludicrous its actually stupid. Shall we dismiss Maradona performance because he scored an obvious goal with his hand that refs didnt see or they didnt want to see? Shall we dismiss the whole 98 WC because Platini himself admitted they used tricks to gain some advantages....
It was a different time, game was more physical and IMO id give anything if we could go back to that criterias regarding fouls and stuff because this current crap is just turning me away from football. The second player feels a contact he goes down, contact that cant take down a child but an athlete built like an tank falls down like he was shoot in the head, feck that game.
I'll check the compilation and get back to you on that mate. But just to add on - Ademir was also an excellent winger in his time and could easily peel off wide to provide the advantage on that wing.
Yeah I'm not entitling others to my opinion but to me 1934 was by far the most "fishy" WC ever. I mean it wasn't one of the wisest decision to go along with it during that time and that regime.
It's not just of the style - I agree with you and would welcome a bit more physical contact without getting the softest of fouls every time, but usually all of the decisions at that time went into Italy's favor.
When I was researching Meazza for the remake draft I went into that WC (and in 1938) and whilst he of course was a fantastic footballer, there are various reports putting a bit of an asterix to that WC win. Not doubting his quality of course, and not really his fault, just sharing my thoughts.
What happened?
@Enigma_87 yes, in John Foot's book Calcio he mentions that Meazza against Spain and against Austria there were complaints of obvious fouls specifically by Meazza. In that video I posted you can even see an Italian elbow the keeper right in the face on the play that the goal results from. Its pretty widely accepted from what I have read from multiple countries that Italy received a lot help from refs in that World Cup.
I agree that it was fishy, in fact it was more then fishy it was a stupid decision to give them a WC in that time but nothing we can do about it now and it would be stupid if we dismissed everything what happened on the pitch because of politics. Even if tournament was rigged, players had nothing to do about it so performances stay the same(maybe czechoslovakians win the tournament but thats not important here) and where ever i read about the tournament Meazza was fantastic in all games and lets not forget, Meazza himself was injured on the tournament and even played injured in the final but still managed to inspire and produce for his team.
Good luck @Šjor Bepo all the best ahead.