From what I understand he is the reason Austria were so good in 54. Nothing in comparison to Neeskens or Varela though.
WC All Stars Chain Draft QF - Arbitrium vs Tuppet
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
From what I understand he is the reason Austria were so good in 54. Nothing in comparison to Neeskens or Varela though.
Agreed regarding the Maradona part. If your attack was sorted out, it would probably be much more closer.
That’s true, I doubt that would be allowed.
I don’t think it needs as much sorting out as you suggest. Those versions of Pele and Kocsis have joy against anyone. And Hagi with that kind of quality around him in the Romania side goes from WC all star to potential WC winner.
Cheers, great insight that. I really liked the parts about Schiaffino and Andrade. Those two were known from the 1950 edition, but no big stars in Europe like the Hungarians so nice to see the German pundits giving them big praise. I also have to read up about Julinho now, he is nowhere to be seen in this draft.
From what I could gather, Ocwirk was seen as the second best midfielder after Bozsik. Sadly, there was no comment about his performance. I am still torn about how to rate him against other All-Time greats.
Consider it like this. In order to accommodate Facchetti, tuppet had to drop Gerson who was known as the brain behind the 1970 Brazil squad. Gersons WC was better than Facchettis, and facchettis was probably better than ocwirks. So in the context of this draft, there’s a better WC performer than him on the bench.
@idmanager
Where would your vote have gone then? Wouldn’t there still be the same issue with Kocsis?
Swap tardelli and Neeskens
Where would your vote have gone then? Wouldn’t there still be the same issue with Kocsis?
Swap tardelli and Neeskens
Its not just the world cup performance though but more of a tactical thing. I didn't drop Gerson to fit Facchetti, I got Facchetti after I had decided to drop Gerson since I already got Maradona. Once you get Maradona 86 you want him as the primary playmaker and Gerson's playmaking is not that important to the side. Ocwirk offers better defensive protection and more mobility in general, while losing some of the playmaking. He just fits better in the team.
As for good WC performance sitting on bench you don't have to look farther than Zico, who sadly had to be sacrificed to get the best possible out of Maradona.
@idmanager
Where would your vote have gone then? Wouldn’t there still be the same issue with Kocsis?
Swap tardelli and Neeskens
I already said I don't mind Kocsis mate. I have seen managers (@Lord SInister ) win drafts with him in the same formation with these same voters. Better wingbacks attacking wise would have made it perfect though. Especially when Pele has a great header in him as well.
That midfield 4 would have made it very difficult for me to vote against you.
Yeah I wondered if you would keep 4 at the back and shove Zico where I put Hagi In my last game. Think your attack looks better for it, although a little extra distraction for my midfield might not have been the worst thing.
Yeah I just felt that as a three and staying true to World Cup form, the lineup I went for made more sense. Both potential front 3’s scored 20 goals between them, and I made the trump card the fact that I could play 3 all stars.
I did feel lizarazu was unfairly floated over thanks to the promotability of Roberto Carlos (remember the Nike commercials at the time)
Don't try dumping on my Bobby Carlos!
Does anyone have anything that shows how many assists Pele had in 58? I can only make out one from any of the videos I’ve watched but only seen one game.
What sub?
Careca on for Hagi and shove Pele into the time machine. Just to make it more interesting.
Ok. Go ahead and post here directly.
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I would have preferred to see Pele at the hub of things in the 10 role, with Hagi playing as the free-roaming attacker pulling wide to serve crosses for Kocsis.
Kudos to Tuppet for keeping Lato on the park - not the sexiest name in a GOATfest but his WC credentials are second to none.
Kudos to Tuppet for keeping Lato on the park - not the sexiest name in a GOATfest but his WC credentials are second to none.
I just didn’t know what to do with Hagi when I abandoned 4231. Tried to keep the players to playing as closed to their position in the relevant WC’s
@Šjor Bepo @idmanager @harshad @ctp @Jim Beam
Won’t tag the rest of the tuppet voters but this is the new formation, mainly so we can actually have 1970 pele v 1986 Maradona[/QUOTE]
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@Arbitrium If the game started like this i wouldnt have voted in this game.
Substitution
1994 Hagi replaced by 1986 careca (5 goals at that WC)
Careca moves up front, 58 Pele ages 12 years and reverts to 1970 Pele as a pure number 10 at the tip of what is almost the perfect diamond.
1994 Hagi replaced by 1986 careca (5 goals at that WC)
Careca moves up front, 58 Pele ages 12 years and reverts to 1970 Pele as a pure number 10 at the tip of what is almost the perfect diamond.
Reminded me of the one from 4-4-2 that I've seen just yesterday
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ranked-25-best-world-cup-players-ever?page=0,2
Klose 3rd, Cafu 6th, Yashin is the only keeper in the list (okay, this is not that outlandish) and Milla and Lineker as the final touch. No Charlton, no Didi, no Djalma...
That’s okay, I’d just like some discussion Instead of talking to myself, it’s a fascinating match up and it’s a World Cup draft with now arguably the two best individual World Cup performances in history on the field.
Yeah like all lists they are mega subjective.
I watched a tv show here yesterday with the top 50 goals of season 17/18 across Europe.
This was number 1
Ronaldo v Juventus was #8
Which would you consider his best world cup ? I remember you mentioning in a previous game that Djalma 62 was too old and got a torrid time from Gento (No shame in that though) and in 58 he only played the final game. I am not sure if he deserves the greatest world cup right back medal thats often pinned on him.
Only one player takes that mantle
Who's that, Cafu ? FIFA themselves posted an all time world cup XI and selected Djalma Santos as the right back of the team - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Cup_All-Time_Team
Although it also seem a pretty bullshit list as well. No Maradona, Zico, Matthaus instead they picked Puskas & Platini.
Arby, we don't update subs in OP as usual. Only tactical changes.
I only watched 1958 final from that World Cup (thankfully there are Didi's and Nilton's compilations from different games already on YouTube), didn't even remember that he missed the rest of the tournament
Even against Gento you could've seen his defensive quality though. His approach was interesting, very aggressive — he knew that if Gento were to receive the ball running, he is done — so he tried to prevent Gento from getting the ball at all (and obviously a few times that risky tactic backfired, leaving him beaten and Gento running full speed at the free space).
Looks like @Arbitrium destroyed his neat frontline to contain Diego, only for the midfield to get bypassed down the flanks.
Inclined to agree with @Tuppet that Kocsis thrived off crosses. In 1954 it was only once Andrade got injured in ET that he chipped in with a brace. Even in a diamond I would have kept Pelé 70 upfront over the 58 one.
But then Tuppet can't spell Schnellinger.
Inclined to agree with @Tuppet that Kocsis thrived off crosses. In 1954 it was only once Andrade got injured in ET that he chipped in with a brace. Even in a diamond I would have kept Pelé 70 upfront over the 58 one.
But then Tuppet can't spell Schnellinger.
Yeah no issue with any of this, I’m just happy that I ended up with a midfield that could actually do well against Diego, that in itself is an achievement.
There are much better all round teams than mine and I’m keen to see some of the reinforcements.
Didn't the op say that in matches you state the year of the WC? Maybe not crystal but the implication I took was you pick your players' year (and that's it)?
Subs are permitted this draft. Also you can change the year of the player.
There’s a program on tv just now covering the 74 and 78 World Cup
[/QUOTE]
@Šjor Bepo @idmanager @harshad @ctp @Jim Beam
Won’t tag the rest of the tuppet voters but this is the new formation, mainly so we can actually have 1970 pele v 1986 Maradona
Not that a switch of votes would matter much, but that does look like the best midfield of the draft so far.
As I mentioned in the first game, that defense still doesn't work for me though.
Can't see Passarella getting too much attacking output from this game, while him and Silva is still a very identical pair.
With a Faachetti/Cafu sort of flank, that would have been one of the best and more balanced attacks of the draft as well.
As you mentioned earlier, sometimes reinforcements don't work in your favor.
Maradona-Faachetti vs Varela-Kocsis is never going to be the same.
Lucky that you already had Pele.