If they weren't great passers they wouldn't have been key midfielders at top clubs.
Wayne Rooney, The Midfield General? Mourinho Says No.
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Fast as in pace/speed. Distinct from passing/creativity.
The point is them being slow/not fast didn't matter because they were magical passers of the ball (particularly Pirlo and Scholes). Rooney passes like a second striker (which is what we was all throughout his career) - inventive/assist-worthy at times, but not reliable and accurate on a consistent basis in comparison to top midfielders.
No midfielder gets as much praise for hitting long balls as much as Rooney does. Then again, no midfielder attempts as many of those passes as Rooney does. Look at the elite level midfielders (Kroos/Modric/Iniesta etc) and tell me one who plays as many diagonals as Rooney. And its those damn diagonals that make people think he is a great midfielder.
Having a player that is good at switching the play is very important, but I would like to see him play more vertical passes.
He's been good in the Euros.
I thought he misplaced too many passes in the FA Cup/end of the season, but I'm in a minority I think.
My view is that the first round of the Euros is like playing in the Championship. The Premiership is a different level.
Can Rooney be a top class midfielder? Maybe he is showing some signs, but the jury is still out. But perhaps it was wrong to expect excellence right from the beginning of someone who is changing positions.
I thought he misplaced too many passes in the FA Cup/end of the season, but I'm in a minority I think.
My view is that the first round of the Euros is like playing in the Championship. The Premiership is a different level.
Can Rooney be a top class midfielder? Maybe he is showing some signs, but the jury is still out. But perhaps it was wrong to expect excellence right from the beginning of someone who is changing positions.
Thats the point im making. Kroos is more than capable of playing those switches but varies his passes. Its not a slight on Rooney, Kroos is a midfielder through and through.
There have been a number of successful midfielders a la Robson, Baraja, Ballack (and yes Gerrard) etc who are blessed with neither exceptional pace nor genius passing. I'm not saying Rooney is at par with them or that he currently is a midfield general, but I certainly think he has sufficient skills to have a successful 2nd stint in the midfield. And he can be that without aspiring to be the next Pirlo or Xavi.
Maybe he will vary is passing a bit more as he gets used to playing this role. I'm sure Jose will make sure of that if he plays Rooney in a deeper position.
Again, Robson, Gerrard, Ballack, had a completely different level of physicality,drive and in some cases, defensive/tackling ability, to what Rooney does now.
Rooney isn't going to be a top CM as he doesn't have the engine and defensive acumen nor passing quality of a top DM/Box to box midfielder, or playmaking CM, respectively.
What he can do is be a "good" midfielder for us next season. That's my expectation from him. But like I've said before, him being our best midfielder would be a complete and utter disappointment given I don't rate him as a midfielder very highly. His engine, passing, defending etc. are all pretty ordinary for a central midfielder. The main area where I see him contributing extra is in inventive moments, given he's been a fine player for us in the final third over the years.
So all in all - hope he's good for us, if he's our main CM our midfield isn't great and he should never ever be an "automatic starter" again.
Modric is one of the best around; neither the other 2 played same role as Rooney. However if you want to compare, Rooney is playing only his second international in that role against Iniesta (one of the best of all time) and Kroos (did nothing special against Poland or a very poor Ukraine which is not unusual imo.
Someone mentioned Rooney is better than Morgan, despite the fact Rooney's only played as a cdm once.... Also, Rooney has been key to why we have been so poor. For the first half the season, the two central midfielders/defenders did there job in possession but the front four apart from Martial played poorly, losing the ball continuously.
We didn't create much because the front 4 and the full backs simply where poor in the final third, go back and watch our games from last season, before you deny I'm wrong. Rooney didn't do his job as a striker last season by holding the ball up well while others moved up the pitch, he made poor decisions continuously with his passing and he couldn't beat a man to save his life and the same goes for Mata. Rooney, also didn't show discipline in his position by always dropping into midfield to get more of the ball and he didn't make much use with it. And Rooney was the only player who had time to get inform because LVG, gave him chance after chance.
Rooney in had decent games against Bournmouth, Aston Villa and Everton but also, played poorly at West Ham and Norwich (Which he had been doing all season). And the funny thing is two of those games we won where against teams in the bottom 5 of the table and in those decent games he had, the rest of the teams played decent as well but it was nothing more than that.
Rooney's not had one outstanding game in midfield to suggest he should be that man in midfield for us next season. He can be a squad played in that role but he ain't what we should be aiming for in our starting line in the central midfield role.
Cabaye, Danny Drinkwater and Cleverly can all play those balls as well.
He's had issues with teams who know how to compress the midfield all season, but mainly as a striker who drops back and it may well continue to happen just from a deeper role if he's our midfielder.
Am I the only one who thinks he's incredibly one dimensional? He never passes through the lines or tries to link up with others. He just plays the same diagonals over & over again. Wasn't that what Gerrard used to be criticized for?
EXACTLY!!!!
Not as good as Rooney though.
You're not the only one. Bizarrely, how limited his "creative" passes are tends to get overlooked by a lot of posters. His first instinct, without fail, every bloody time he gets the ball, is to look to the right flank to see if the diagonal is on. Doesn't glance to the left flank, doesn't look if he can break a defensive line with a crisp ball through them. Nope. Be it Valencia or walker, that's his go to pass. We should go all out for Alves if he's going to be our CM next year.
Lol, do you have any evidence to back up what you're saying?
We need midfielders, who are capable of making those passes in between the lines and that's what Rooney really doesn't have. And it's something we must improve if we want to be tight challengers instead of challenging Arsenal for their trophy.
Lol, do you have any evidence to back up what you're saying?
I don't need to provide evidence. Rooney is clearly far better than Cabaye, Danny Drinkwater and Cleverly.
Not as a midfielder...
In my opinion he is.
No, I made that remark after the first game.
He can switch the play but can he find those gaps in between the line? If so, can anyone provide me clips of him doing so while playing in the midfield role.
I think Rooney's range of passing has been good in the Euros so far.... I do wonder if he will be able to control his frustration though... he might match Scholes in the wrong way
He can switch the play but can he find those gaps in between the line? If so, can anyone provide me clips of him doing so while playing in the midfield role.
A long, long time ago...
The pass to Carrick at 1:10s
He doesn't keep the ball well. He misplaces far too many simple passes.
This thread title makes the Caf' look mental. Just saying.
Rawk-level delusion.
Rawk-level delusion.
In my opinion, if Wayne Rooney ends up as our midfield general next season then we will not be competing for the league.
He can switch the play but can he find those gaps in between the line? If so, can anyone provide me clips of him doing so while playing in the midfield role.
He has only just started playing in midfield, but if I remember rightly he played one or two fantastic vertical passes against Palace. I agree that he needs to do it more often though.
Agreed with OP. Rooney is a midfield in general.
@love mufc You've made your point clear. Still, If you have more to add to the discussion, do so. Don't quote posts without adding anything to the thread.
not at all, its a big part why there are so many Rooney threads on here and why many don't want him as our midfielder. What ive found is early first half he looks bright and sharp, pinging balls early on, gets the commentators gasping, fades in the second half but doesn't matter as he has the credit banked looking good early on
That says it all.
It just feels that standards have fallen so much in the last 3 years, that we say "player x, although not good enough for our rivals, is good enough for us".
We should not make allowances for Rooney - if he isn't good enough, he should not play.
IMO, by putting all of his eggs in Rooney's basket, LVG lost his job. I hope that Jose does not fall into the same trap.
Not last season he wasn't.
But it's really easy for all us armchair managers to say that, which i completely agree with, but it's quite another to actually follow through with your principles when you're the manager and you have one of the most iconic football names on the planet raking in 300k/week on your books.
The shoehorn it simply has to be, at least until Rooney so embarrasses himself as a midfielder and the club that Mourinho will have cover, if you will, to drop Rooney into a supporting role. You're absolutely right that in a better world meritocracy wins but football above all is a business, the business of entertainment in particular, and the fans expect to see Rooney play until it becomes clear that he can no longer compete at this level. That's been clear to most of us on the caf for several seasons now but because we've been in a transition -- a transition that has lasted longer than any of us though it would last and we're going into Season Four now -- the previous two managers who presided over this transition didn't have any better ideas than to continue to play Rooney every match.
Well, we're now into our fourth manager in five seasons and this manager, we all believe, has the balls of steel we expected of Moyes and Van Gaal. There's zero chance that Mourinho will begin the season with Rooney on the bench, absent injury, so we're left with speculating where he will play Rooney and for how long. That's basically what this thread is all about. We armchair managers can only speculate but my speculation is that the physical toll on Rooney over 14 seasons of non-stop football will become more evident and that he'll have to have his minutes managed more carefully than Moyes and Van Gaal ever considered. We have all seen that Rooney has acquitted himself adequately as a midfielder against relatively weak Russia and Wales sides, who are about on par with lower half premiership clubs and I expect Mourinho to give Rooney a shot in a similar role until it no longer is tenable for him to do so.
But he is a better player.
look no one is arguing for Rooney as a striker. He is bad as a striker, we all accept that. And idk who said Rooney is a CDM, purge him!! The matches you are mention that have his bad matches (West Ham - Norwich) it is arguable that everybody had a bad match in those, so I don't think its just to take those matches and say Rooney can not reinvent himself as a good midfielder. If he can, LET HIM PEOPLE. Until he proves otherwise then don't be so harsh. Heck we could be harsh on Martial because we don't know if he'll be good playing against Real Madrid or Bayern or Barca etc....but based on what we've seen we aren't. Why can't we apply the same level of thinking with Rooney.
My post from a couple of days ago.
I'm not football expert but from my years of watching this sport, the quickest and best way to create a chance is from a pass through the middle down the channels to either the striker or winger. Rooney almost never looks at this option even if there is space.
It's overlooked how much influence this simple issue can have on a teams attacking play.