Wayne Rooney, The Midfield General? Mourinho Says No.

[Mindhunter]

I am actually a ROONEY fan and hate the stick he gets here sometimes because he was clever enough to negotiate a high wage.

He is no central midfielder let alone a general. His positioning, movement and reading of the game is simply not good enough. Yes, he has a good long pass on him but he clearly lacks the vision. The only reason he looked good in the last two games was because they were against Russia and Wales. Both the teams did not have good midfielders who could challenge Rooney. He has all the time and space in the world to pick his passes as the opponents were standing off and playing very deep.

He won't be half as effective against a team who press high and have proper midfielders.

 

[Treble]

Before last season Rooney fans told us that he would score 20+ goals and lead us to glory. We didn't make the top 4. Now Rooney is a top midfielder...

Rooney isn't liked by many fans on here because he epitomises everything that is wrong with United right now: there's a significant gap between the reputation and the financial state of the club/player and what is being shown on the pitch.

On reputation and finances United is a top 3 club in the world, on the pitch it isn't even close to that. Similarly, Rooney is treated and paid as one of the big stars of the game but his performances are miles off those of the best players in his position, be it in attack or midflied. Nevertheless, his fans still try to convince us with all sort of meaningless stats that he should play a central role at United. We won't be back to being one of the big boys in Europe with Rooney having an important role in this team. Not even Mourinho can sort that out.

 

[red4ever 79]

I am actually a ROONEY fan and hate the stick he gets here sometimes because he was clever enough to negotiate a high wage.

He is no central midfielder let alone a general. His positioning, movement and reading of the game is simply not good enough. Yes, he has a good long pass on him but he clearly lacks the vision. The only reason he looked good in the last two games was because they were against Russia and Wales. Both the teams did not have good midfielders who could challenge Rooney. He has all the time and space in the world to pick his passes as the opponents were standing off and playing very deep.


Almost the same as I commented. Two great minds and all that

He won't be half as effective against a team who press high and have proper midfielders.

 

[settembrini]

If we can sell him we should but imo he will start next season for us in midfield. How he performs and how Mourinho reacts to those performances will be pivotal in how our season turns out. He played reasonably well at the end of last season and has had one good and one average game so far in the Euros. If this is his level as a midfielder then Mourinho should try to slowly phase him out the team with an eye to bringing in a top playmaker next summer. If he plays better then he should be kept in the team but if he's worse then he has to be dropped and dropped quickly, don't repeat the mistakes of Van Gaal.

 

[ivaldo]

They don't want him to be good at it, because that would mean they can't then bash him at every opportunity.

Not at all. I think Rooney has been a fantastic servant for the club and that he'll go down as one of our best ever players. But I'm not going to pretend he's still great just because he's Rooney.

Rooney used to play anywhere for the team. Now he'll play anywhere just to get in the team. He's detrimental, he takes the place of players far better than him justice can give him a go. He's a central midfielder at the moment, how long before he decides he's a defensive midfielder again? Or a striker? Or an attacking midfielder? Maybe he fancies having a go in goal.

 

[Fortis Mente]

Pogba if we really want him? He's expensive but we got cash to burn.

I'm not sure he would want to come back here.

 

[arthurka]

Name a top notch CM that we could get?

Kroos, Kanté, Matuidi, Veratti.. Rooney has 300k/w so thats 15m a year.. So just pay what they want.

 

[Adisa]

He's been in decent form lately. But the constant optimism about the reinvention of Rooney, or the "Rooney will be back" mantra is a bit like the Liverpool "this is our year". For our sake I just hope he does well cause he isn't going anywhere it seems.

 

[Vilev]

It all depends on what his role is, what are his partners are, etc. For example Dier was a CB before his spurs move, and as a DCM he is not exactly great in distributing the ball or carrying it etc. But if there are suitable partners around him, he can be great. As he was for Spurs this season.
Rooney is creative player, it's just stupid to dismiss it, in terms of assists he is one of the leading players in PL, even this year he did alright considering our dire play, i think he was our top player in terms of assists in PL and in chances created per game as well. So the right question is what sort of formation and tactics will allow it and would it be better to do it that way with Rooney or have something alternative without him.
For example, if we are talking 4-4-2 (with wings) there is no place in midfield for Rooney, i don't think he can play as a CM in two-man midfield. But diamonds, three-man midfield and so on - that a different story.

Right now in this England set up he does look like he belongs and put in good performances.

 

[dichinero]

Before last season Rooney fans told us that he would score 20+ goals and lead us to glory. We didn't make the top 4. Now Rooney is a top midfielder...

Rooney isn't liked by many fans on here because he epitomises everything that is wrong with United right now: there's a significant gap between the reputation and the financial state of the club/player and what is being shown on the pitch.

On reputation and finances United is a top 3 club in the world, on the pitch it isn't even close to that. Similarly, Rooney is treated and paid as one of the big stars of the game but his performances are miles off those of the best players in his position, be it in attack or midflied. Nevertheless, his fans still try to convince us with all sort of meaningless stats that he should play a central role at United. We won't be back to being one of the big boys in Europe with Rooney having an important role in this team. Not even Mourinho can sort that out.

Not at all. I think Rooney has been a fantastic servant for the club and that he'll go down as one of our best ever players. But I'm not going to pretend he's still great just because he's Rooney.

Rooney used to play anywhere for the team. Now he'll play anywhere just to get in the team. He's detrimental, he takes the place of players far better than him justice can give him a go. He's a central midfielder at the moment, how long before he decides he's a defensive midfielder again? Or a striker? Or an attacking midfielder? Maybe he fancies having a go in goal.

Close thread!

 

[red4ever 79]

We made a mistake last season believing his boast he was going to score 20+ goals and fire us to the title. Such was the confidence in him, that we allowed a host of attackers to leave. This culminated in one of our worst season in term of goals for.

Now he proclaims to be a midfielder. Let's not make the same mistake and assume he will provide the level of quality in that position to fire us to the title

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Doesn't matter what Rooney does, I have a feeling that some of our fans will never be convinced, but who gives a feck what they think, eh? The ultimate decision will be down to the manager. If he feels Rooney is the right player to play that role, then so be it.

I will say, though, the last couple of years, Rooney's best performances have arguably come in centre midfield.

Rooney vs Newcastle 14/15 - Centre mid - 2 goals 1 assist

Rooney vs Bournemouth 15/16 - Centre mid - 1 goal 1 assist

As well as getting goals and assists, his general play was excellent in both of the games mentioned above, and he's continuing to show that.

People need to realise he's just making the transition from striker to centre midfield. He still has things to learn, but he will only do that by playing more games there.

As I've mentioned before, the big decision for Mourinho, if he is going to play Rooney in centre midfield, is putting him next to a player that compliments his style.

 

[cyberman]

When did doing the same thing again and again and again become creative? You spread the ball for a reason, it's to change the angle of attack, not to look pretty. When you know that every single time Rooney gets the ball he's going to try and pick out our right back, before looking to get the attacking midfielder or even the striker on goal, what does it achieve?

Isn't that better than passing it back? Its not as if he's turning down a key pass forward to spread it wide.
I want to see him doing this in a proper side. He did it today and v Russia and brought Walker into the game when the left side became overloaded. Especially for United our strength is on the wings.
Why should he force something through the middle against the amount of sides who sat back and flooded the middle of the park last season?
Rooney trying to spray the ball around over the last 2 years is better than the 2 yard sideways nonsense we suffered through under LVG. If that's what people want then just play Cleverley.

 

[Zoo]

Yes he can do it. The biggest issue is staying fit and sharp consistently, no more ups and downs. Hopefully Mourinho can help with that.

 

[BennyBlanco]

We made a mistake last season believing his boast he was going to score 20+ goals and fire us to the title. Such was the confidence in him, that we allowed a host of attackers to leave. This culminated in one of our worst season in term of goals for.

Now he proclaims to be a midfielder. Let's not make the same mistake and assume he will provide the level of quality in that position to fire us to the title

What? Did Rooney tell Van Gaal to sell off all our forwards and wingers? You're blaming the fact under Van Gaal we struggled to create more than 1 shot on goal a game on Rooney?, even during the long period Rooney was out we created absolutely feck all under his "philosophy"

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Just another excuse. So it's either you are admitting that he is not a midfielder or should not be regarded or treated as one. So when do we start to compare him with rest of his peers? After another 4 years in the midfield. He is an experienced midfielder by all accounts and if people are happy to call him a midfielder then be ready to use the same yardstick that are used for midfielders in the world of football.

Not really an excuse, but it's something you have to take into consideration. Having said that, if I had never watched Rooney before, I wouldn't have known he was a striker. He looks like a natural in midfield. Certainly doesn't look out of place anyway.

 

[MrBest]

OK guys, lets have this out!

Quiet a few posters seem to feel that Rooney can't become a midfielder, hasn't got the abilities of a midfielder and is terrible at passing the ball. Recently, I rebutted a poster in another thread who said that he can't pass, he can't dribble and has no vision to be a midfielder. For me, he has now for three games dominated the middle area of the pitch (FA Cup Final and two England games at the Euros), spraying accurate passes around the field and occasionally taking a pot shot at scoring. With each game his confidence and influence is growing and today (versus Wales), he added a new dimension to his armoury by making excellent crosses from corner-kicks and free-kicks.

His command of the middle of the park was so impressive that established English midfielders were all second-rate to him. He was MOTM vs Russia and arguably vs Wales too.

What does the forum think?

Palace, 2nd string Russian team and Wales. Says it all about your theory.

Second of all, not sure if u call that bossing the game, have you ever seen a real midfielder boss the game? Yaya Keane Scholes Vieira Davids Nedved, I can go on. Rooney is very very far from that standard. Switching the ball continuously to the right is not bossing the midfield.

 

[Fortis Mente]

Kroos, Kanté, Matuidi, Veratti.. Rooney has 300k/w so thats 15m a year.. So just pay what they want.

Kroos and Verratti are just not getable in my opinion, no matter how much money we throw at them. I would love us to get Kante, but he's not really a deep-lying playmaker is he? He's more of a ball winner that keeps his passing simple.

 

[JackXX]

His recent run in midfield is the best he's played for a long time.

 

[RedDevils23]

This is probably the funniest OP in a while. I'm genuinely baffled in regards to how people seem to think that a player who sprays balls out wide constantly is automatically a good passer. It takes more than that to be considered a creative and efficient CM. Further, against an actual midfield (in the CL, or vs. a top 4 side) he would be slaughtered out there. He doesn't have the legs, and yes, he can't dribble. Sure, he had that one run vs. Palace in the FA Cup final, but let's not kid ourselves. If we're settling for Rooney in central midfield, our standards as a club have dropped significantly.

 

[VeevaVee]

He's not even been standout there in a team of England kids against crap opposition. He's just not been the usual Rooney bad.

Also, hasn't this been done before? Wasn't everyone begging for him to be put back up top because he stifled our midfield? Is this some kind of Mandela Effect or is everyone just ignoring it?

 

[ivaldo]

Isn't that better than passing it back? Its not as if he's turning down a key pass forward to spread it wide.
I want to see him doing this in a proper side. He did it today and v Russia and brought Walker into the game when the left side became overloaded. Especially for United our strength is on the wings.
Why should he force something through the middle against the amount of sides who sat back and flooded the middle of the park last season?
Rooney trying to spray the ball around over the last 2 years is better than the 2 yard sideways nonsense we suffered through under LVG. If that's what people want then just play Cleverley.

You're right, he shouldn't force anything through the middle, he also shouldn't force the ball out to the right religiously either.

He should be looking to play the best pass, not the pass he thinks he's best at. Watch when he receives the ball to feet, his first thought is 'can I get it out wide?' there could be a striker standing on his own on the left and Rooney would have no clue. He just doesn't have the awareness and intelligence to play that role. Lampard was a great example of how to play the role. His head would constantly be on the move, he'd check 4 or 5 times where players were around him before he'd even receive the ball, before he had it at his feet he already had 2 or 3 options worked out in his head. Rooney can't do this, what made Rooney a great player was his instictiveness and aggression, he plays with neither now, he's watched how Giggs and Scholes reinvented themselves and thought 'i can do that'. Instead he's become a parody of Scholes.

 

[Devil may care]

Do I want to see Rooney try to be a midfield playmaker or buy a proper proven playmaker? The latter obviously, but Rooney is gonna be shoehorned into our first 11 no matter what, and I'd rather see him in the deeper role than trying to be be a striker or #10.

 

[villain]

Not at all. I think Rooney has been a fantastic servant for the club and that he'll go down as one of our best ever players. But I'm not going to pretend he's still great just because he's Rooney.

Rooney used to play anywhere for the team. Now he'll play anywhere just to get in the team. He's detrimental, he takes the place of players far better than him justice can give him a go. He's a central midfielder at the moment, how long before he decides he's a defensive midfielder again? Or a striker? Or an attacking midfielder? Maybe he fancies having a go in goal.

I don't think that's necessarily true, SAF said Rooney will eventually go to the midfield role as his career progresses and we're seeing that.
I'm not sure who's place he's taking in midfield? Wilshere, Henderson, Milner?
Or at United, Herrera? Mata? Schweinsteiger?

I think he's one of the few players who plays with his heart on his sleeve and doesn't go hiding. 90mins into a match he'll still run the entire length of the pitch if it means stopping the opposition from getting into our box.
And he's still capable of a moment of brilliance which not many of our players have.

I think there's certainly a select following, particularly on here, who don't like him to the extent that any good he does do, still isn't good enough and that's more the point I was making.

 

[The red panther]

Pogba if we really want him? He's expensive but we got cash to burn.

good one, you are funny !

 

[Dante]

Mourinho will be unbiased and judge his players based on their ability. Of course Rooney will be in the team. It's only internet posters lacking in football intelligence who would leave him out.

 

[AndyJ1985]

Could he be (or become) a decent midfield option in our squad? Sure. But we already have several decent midfielders.

Could he be (or become) a great midfielder to rival the great midfielders in Europe? No.

So my question that follows is: why accept mediocrity? For years we had a shockingly poor midfield, it was the cause of much frustration amongst supporters. 40 year old Giggs, Scholes out of retirement, Cleverley, Gibson, Anderson... But it seems our midfield continues to be a problem area despite heavy investment. But here we are again, we find ourselves in a position where a declining striker is being put forward as the answer to our midfield woes. I have to ask: when will people learn?

I watched Iniesta absolutely dominate midfield for Spain, and it's not a one off, he does it for Barcelona time and time again, and I find myself wishing we had somebody even remotely close to that level in midfield. I don't expect us to find the next Iniesta, but I expect us to at least attempt to build a technically proficient and hard working midfield, rather than the static, as-creative-as-a-business-studies-student midfield we've had for the last few years. You can be sure of one thing; whilst we shoehorn Wayne Rooney in to midfield we aren't going to be competing with the very best teams around. But no matter how many times I say it I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall, because for some unfathomable reason there is still a number of fans who keep insisting he can reinvent himself to play in X position, and that spraying long balls to the flanks is somehow evidence that he's good enough to be a great midfielder. Sorry but I just ain't seeing it.

 

[BigDunc9]

I must admit his last 2 performances have made me look silly. I was gutted that it looked like he was going to be played out of position in midfield this tournament but he has played really well both games. He does have fantastic vision.

 

[Powderfinger]

As an Arsenal fan, I'd love it if Mourinho played Rooney as his midfield general next season.

I'm not sure how you could look at the match today and think he performed well as a midfielder. England could do nothing whatsoever in possession in the first half simply with Wales pressuring starting at the halfway line and Rooney was a huge part of that. Over and over, he picked up the ball deep and literally had no clue what to do with it other than to work it to one of the fullbacks to hopefully carry forward. In the second half, Wales dropped extremely deep and largely stopped pressuring, so Rooney could spray a few passes around. When you think of all the qualities that make a great deep lying playmaker - ability to weight both long and short passes, close control in tight spaces, quick change of direction to lose his marker, ability to confidently dribble past a man if necessary, great tactical understanding of the position - Rooney really possesses none of them.

 

[Speak]

I'm not an anti-Rooney person, but he's really not a particularly good midfielder.

You don't feel confident that he'll control the ball well every time, or pass it effectively/accurately every time.

The very best midfielders are out-balls for their team (despite being in congested areas.) Less gifted players should be able to chuck any ball at any speed/height at their midfield general, and he should control it with the same ease every time. Think Scholes, Modric, Carrick of three years ago.

Rooney doesn't provide that. He has to slow the game down to testimonial pace (and position himself in acres of space) just so that he can get a foothold. He hesitates on the ball.
He always looks like he's doing a mediocre Kroos impression. He's desperate to be that sort of player, but it's clearly just not natural to him.

 

[cyberman]

You're right, he shouldn't force anything through the middle, he also shouldn't force the ball out to the right religiously either.

He should be looking to play the best pass, not the pass he thinks he's best at. Watch when he receives the ball to feet, his first thought is 'can I get it out wide?' there could be a striker standing on his own on the left and Rooney would have no clue. He just doesn't have the awareness and intelligence to play that role. Lampard was a great example of how to play the role. His head would constantly be on the move, he'd check 4 or 5 times where players were around him before he'd even receive the ball, before he had it at his feet he already had 2 or 3 options worked out in his head. Rooney can't do this, what made Rooney a great player was his instictiveness and aggression, he plays with neither now, he's watched how Giggs and Scholes reinvented themselves and thought 'i can do that'. Instead he's become a parody of Scholes.

But for Rooney to play a cross field pass he has to be on the left side. He will have the picture of whats in front of him so knows there is nothing on.
The reason he spreads it right to Valencia is because our play goes through Martial. Our right option is Mata who drifts inside so Valencia has all the space to run into. It's not as if Rooney is doing this on a whim.
Lampards options was to slide it out wide and get into the box himself or hit Drogba for the lay off. Lets not pretend he's this master schemer now. That was a very direct side with very direct options

 

[ivaldo]

I don't think that's necessarily true, SAF said Rooney will eventually go to the midfield role as his career progresses and we're seeing that.
I'm not sure who's place he's taking in midfield? Wilshere, Henderson, Milner?
Or at United, Herrera? Mata? Schweinsteiger?

I think he's one of the few players who plays with his heart on his sleeve and doesn't go hiding. 90mins into a match he'll still run the entire length of the pitch if it means stopping the opposition from getting into our box.
And he's still capable of a moment of brilliance which not many of our players have.

I think there's certainly a select following, particularly on here, who don't like him to the extent that any good he does do, still isn't good enough and that's more the point I was making.

Fergie last tried his best to get rid of Rooney because he knew he wasn't good enough. Fergie was a master of letting players go before they nosedived, he was right in his instance aswell.

Equally there's a select following who praise him whenever they can, for the smallest of things. He's played above average against Wales and Russia! Both of whom sat off him completely and allowed him to play at his own leisurely pace, and now he's a general!?

 

[SirAF]

good one, you are funny !

What? Surley you are not disputing that Pogba is a superior CM to Rooney?

 

[itso 7]

Doesn't matter what Rooney does, I have a feeling that some of our fans will never be convinced, but who gives a feck what they think, eh? The ultimate decision will be down to the manager. If he feels Rooney is the right player to play that role, then so be it.

I will say, though, the last couple of years, Rooney's best performances have arguably come in centre midfield.

Rooney vs Newcastle 14/15 - Centre mid - 2 goals 1 assist

Rooney vs Bournemouth 15/16 - Centre mid - 1 goal 1 assist

As well as getting goals and assists, his general play was excellent in both of the games mentioned above, and he's continuing to show that.

People need to realise he's just making the transition from striker to centre midfield. He still has things to learn, but he will only do that by playing more games there.

As I've mentioned before, the big decision for Mourinho, if he is going to play Rooney in centre midfield, is putting him next to a player that compliments his style.

True but there comes a point where the question has to be asked; will he ever transition himself into midfield to reach the standard of a player we require in such a position? The level of player we require in that role is your Modric, Gundogun, Pogba etc so the question is a clear no given what we already know about him. So the club needs to decide whether they are willing to lose more ground whilst he 'adapts' or invest in a player that can do better in the role he is having to learn at thirty.

 

[Oneunited26]

Exactly my point.. Why would a club like us need to give him time to figure that out? Just buy a top notch cm. Problem solved.

We said that, for how many years? and the club for years have dropped the ball, the scary thing is? the midfield buys have been so bad, apart from carrick we have not done great buying anyone. And then we went to the other extreme where fergie decided to buy no one, going into season's no better than the last or weaker. 2015 could have been good, but the manager never got the best out of the players. Playing rooney in midfield is just another case of square pegs round holes, like allot of the last decade we have had to endure

 

[Americano]

Yes, for LA Galaxy.

 

[villain]

Fergie last tried his best to get rid of Rooney because he knew he wasn't good enough. Fergie was a master of letting players go before they nosedived, he was right in his instance aswell.

Equally there's a select following who praise him whenever they can, for the smallest of things. He's played above average against Wales and Russia! Both of whom sat off him completely and allowed him to play at his own leisurely pace, and now he's a general!?

I'm not claiming he's a midfield general. But he has a good game, and it's really that simple. It seems impossible for some to just acknowledge that he played well today.

 

[ivaldo]

But for Rooney to play a cross field pass he has to be on the left side. He will have the picture of whats in front of him so knows there is nothing on.
The reason he spreads it right to Valencia is because our play goes through Martial. Our right option is Mata who drifts inside so Valencia has all the space to run into. It's not as if Rooney is doing this on a whim.
Lampards options was to slide it out wide and get into the box himself or hit Drogba for the lay off. Lets not pretend he's this master schemer now. That was a very direct side with very direct options

But he doesn't, we saw a few times today. The worst of which was when he was completely robbed of the ball by Ramsey in the first half, he had no clue Ramsey was even there, he'd basically stopped and, yup, you guessed it, was lining up a cross field pass to the behemoth that is Sterling.

Lampard was 10 times the midfielder Rooney will ever be, I'm sorry but that's not even up for debate. Rooney started dropping deep and hitting that pass long before this season past.


Not the best example but you get the picture.

 

[Dec9003]

I don't see why Rooney couldn't play as an advanced midfielder provided it's a three man midfield. He has been playing well for months now. He can play the ball reasonably well and he's good at beating his man and driving the ball forward, plus he can finish better than a lot of midfielders can.
I don't think he'll neccesarily be the best midfielder in the world don't get me wrong, but he's got the engine, the work rate and more importantly the ability to play a box to box/ "attacking midfielder" role. I'm sure Mourinho will be able to see the obvious qualities he possesses as well.

 

[ivaldo]

I'm not claiming he's a midfield general. But he has a good game, and it's really that simple. It seems impossible for some to just acknowledge that he played well today.

OK that's fine and I never said you did. But you said that fans in here will slate him whenever they get the chance, well this thread is evidence of how ridiculous it also is on the other side of the scale.