Wayne Rooney | Having medical

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@sunama

dichinero said:
I'm going to assume that you don't follow the MLS much to come out with such a statement. Just because it's MLS, it doesn't make it a league full of handicaps. They have players like Bradley, Giovinco, Villa, Dose Santos, Kaka and more recently Keane who just retired. Your overestimating of Rooney is just because of reputation. It may not be the most technical team but the physical levels fitness wise is not a joke. If Rooney joins the MLS or China, he will not be the best player in either league, not even top 3.
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I live in Chicago. We have season tickets to the Fire at work. I run a sports facility and we show most MLS games. I've seen a lot of it, though will admit I'm not much of a fan.

You listed a bunch of players who are either well over the hill, or just not that good in the first place, and all have been superb by MLS standards. Rooney would have no problems whatsoever in MLS and he'd instantly be one of the best players in the league.

I appreciate my opinion isn't a popular one, but I think the hyperbole surrounding his decline is exaggerated. For the record, I absolutely do not think he is good enough to start for United, and I have no objection to him leaving. But I bristle at the suggestion that he would struggle to get in a mid or lower table Prem team, or not good enough for the MLS. Because in my opinion that's just over the top.

I do not rate him highly at all anymore, but I believe he still has many useful qualities that are both under appreciated by fans accustomed to a much higher level, and which would be valued by lesser sides than ours. People are obsessed with pace and power, and while they are very important, they aren't the only qualities to be relevant. The top end of football performance is clearly beyond Wayne at this point, but I just don't see the abject shell of a man, who can't trap a ball, that so many fans froth at the mouth about.

I am also going to venture to put out there, that Rooney has come in for some fierce criticism from fans of England and Utd alike, and regardless of whether that is merited - and ignoring the size of his contract - must still have a deleterious effect on his confidence. I mean, he's just a person after all. At this point, I hope he can go on to have a successful denouement to his career elsewhere - because the terms he gets talked about around here, are frankly atrocious.
 
stevoc said:
No point mate people will believe what they want to believe. Point out the obvious and someone will dig up a quote from 10 years ago where Ferguson spouted a lie.
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Pretty much.

simonhch said:
I live in Chicago. We have season tickets to the Fire at work. I run a sports facility and we show most MLS games. I've seen a lot of it, though will admit I'm not much of a fan.
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:lol: Comprehensively settled then. Great post. The strength of the MLS differs between each user and their type of argument. Crap for good players, good for crap players.

People are viewing Rooney's career from back to front, not front to back. When he finally calls it a day we will be able to witness the scope of his career and agree that it was a fine one. You're bang on about the useful qualities and being underappreciated.

It seems just yelling "SHUTUP, HE'S FINISHED" counts for an argument these days. It is more nuanced than that and with Jose calling the shots, I trust him to do the right thing. If that is keep him around then so be it, if it is jettison then so be it.
 
Ashley R1+O said:
Pretty much.


:lol: Comprehensively settled then. Great post. The strength of the MLS differs between each user and their type of argument. Crap for good players, good for crap players.

People are viewing Rooney's career from back to front, not front to back. When he finally calls it a day we will be able to witness the scope of his career and agree that it was a fine one. You're bang on about the useful qualities and being underappreciated.

It seems just yelling "SHUTUP, HE'S FINISHED" counts for an argument these days. It is more nuanced than that and with Jose calling the shots, I trust him to do the right thing. If that is keep him around then so be it, if it is jettison then so be it.
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Thank you. Agreed.
 
simonhch said:
You listed a bunch of players who are either well over the hill, or just not that good in the first place, and all have been superb by MLS standards. Rooney would have no problems whatsoever in MLS and he'd instantly be one of the best players in the league.
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My opinion on Rooney's football ability has little to do with contract or reputation. I don't care for his past exploits and achievements when I'm consider him now. The current Wayne Rooney is not good enough imo to be the best player MLS. His saving grace is his reputation, had a lesser known player put in the same performances that he has in the last couple of seasons, he would have been sold off ages ago.

We should be able to judge players without sentiments and blind hope sometimes, and call it for what it is. He will not walk into most teams in the PL, certainly not in the top 8 teams. The man can barely move, keep himself fit regularly, declined seriously technically. What makes him good enough to shift Arnautovic or Shaqiri or even Berahino at Stoke or Lanzini, Feghouli, Carroll at West Ham, Tadic, Long, Austin etc at Soton?

To be the best in the MLS, he will need to keep up with the pace. Ok, maybe not everyone needs pace but he is nowhere the levels of Kaka and Pirlo in terms of spatial awareness. He will need to be fit week in week out. Sadly I don't see any of these. He will be amongst the good to top players but not the best imo. He will pull out the odd spectacular now and then but he will never match the consistency the likes of Keane, Martins and Giovinco showed in the MLS.
 
dichinero said:
My opinion on Rooney's football ability has little to do with contract or reputation. I don't care for his past exploits and achievements when I'm consider him now. The current Wayne Rooney is not good enough imo to be the best player MLS. His saving grace is his reputation, had a lesser known player put in the same performances that he has in the last couple of seasons, he would have been sold off ages ago.

We should be able to judge players without sentiments and blind hope sometimes, and call it for what it is. He will not walk into most teams in the PL, certainly not in the top 8 teams. The man can barely move, keep himself fit regularly, declined seriously technically. What makes him good enough to shift Arnautovic or Shaqiri or even Berahino at Stoke or Lanzini, Feghouli, Carroll at West Ham, Tadic, Long, Austin etc at Soton?

To be the best in the MLS, he will need to keep up with the pace. Ok, maybe not everyone needs pace but he is nowhere the levels of Kaka and Pirlo in terms of spatial awareness. He will need to be fit week in week out. Sadly I don't see any of these. He will be amongst the good to top players but not the best imo. He will pull out the odd spectacular now and then but he will never match the consistency the likes of Keane, Martins and Giovinco showed in the MLS.
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You, and others, consistently insult the intelligence of other posters by insisting that any appreciation of Rooney - however limited - is solely due to his reputation. The hyperbolic negativity typically reaches a nadir in the match day thread, where drama queens start frothing at the mouth at the first sign of a bad pass or touch.

It's become a tiresome subject, to be frank. We'll have to agree to disagree. Or whatever. I'm not trying to single you out, but threads like this, people just keep doubling down on nonsense to try and ram their point home. Leading to arguments where people are suggesting that a 31 yr old Rooney wouldn't be able to achieve the consistency of Obafeckingfemi Martins in a third rate league.
 
I'm not a big Rooney fan but I think a lot of people are doing him massive disservice.

Just because he can't do it at United doesn't mean he wouldn't make it to any other premiership team.

I remember that people said the exact same thing about Darren Fletcher. That he wasn't good enough to even play in the SPL and should just retire. Now he is a mainstay in a very good premiership team playing every game.

Rooney has enough natural ability than many players in this league. Even at his advanced age. Time to time that quality still shines through. He was MOTM in the FA cup final less than 12 months ago.
 
While I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of flogging Rooney to China per se (and yes, before you start saying I disrespect him, he's been a great player for the club and so forth), I do think the timing of the sale is wrong.

We need bodies for the rest of the season, to rotate players and for backup. Rooney's not much worth for us as a starter in important matches these days, but he's still got his use, and we're not that heavily stacked in terms of squad size if you consider the four tournaments and the sheer amount of matches we're still going to play.
 
His wages affect our chances of doing well with Man Utd when we play Football Manager.

Let's everyone just admit it.
 
The reason why I wouldn't expect him to stand out in the MLS is simply because, I think he's physically shot.
 
Dante said:
His wages affect our chances of doing well with Man Utd when we play Football Manager.

Let's everyone just admit it.
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Haha no one wants to fecking buy him on those wages, pisses me right off.
 
simonhch said:
You, and others, consistently insult the intelligence of other posters by insisting that any appreciation of Rooney - however limited - is solely due to his reputation. The hyperbolic negativity typically reaches a nadir in the match day thread, where drama queens start frothing at the mouth at the first sign of a bad pass or touch.

It's become a tiresome subject, to be frank. We'll have to agree to disagree. Or whatever. I'm not trying to single you out, but threads like this, people just keep doubling down on nonsense to try and ram their point home. Leading to arguments where people are suggesting that a 31 yr old Rooney wouldn't be able to achieve the consistency of Obafeckingfemi Martins in a third rate league.
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That's your opinion and it's allowed. Your point was that he will be the best player in the MLS which is based on nothing more than hope. I couldn't care less if anyone player can have one or two good moments over the course of the season but whether a player can be consistently good throughout the season to stand out as the best.

I don't how you've found differing opinions insulting, it's the same way there are posters that still cream over a diagonal pass. Only a few weeks ago, one poster said that the goal against Newcastle donkey years ago is enough reason why he should still be at United. I'm not going to have a moan about that am I? Am I wrong to say that many are still not living on his reputation?

It's clear for all to see, whether you love him or loathe him, he is past it physically and is struggling to keep himself fit which is the bare minimum to play football, whether in a third rate league like MLS or the PL. It's not hate as some people have made themselves to believe, the player can't cut based on what we are seeing or have been see lately, black and white. The only reason anyone will believe he will waltz into a team whilst been physically shot is nothing but reputation and hope. Torres lost it but was still fit enough to compete, different case with Wayne Rooney.
 
Is he even watching with the team today?
 
K2K said:
I'm not a big Rooney fan but I think a lot of people are doing him massive disservice.

Just because he can't do it at United doesn't mean he wouldn't make it to any other premiership team.

I remember that people said the exact same thing about Darren Fletcher. That he wasn't good enough to even play in the SPL and should just retire. Now he is a mainstay in a very good premiership team playing every game.

Rooney has enough natural ability than many players in this league. Even at his advanced age. Time to time that quality still shines through. He was MOTM in the FA cup final less than 12 months ago.
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It's forum football fans.
Players are either amazing, or the worst ever.

I cannot understand people thinking he wouldn't easily cruise into most other teams.
Cue someone coming on and saying, well he aint gonna get past Hudderstone for Hull, or (add some chimpy name)for Bournemouth etc.
It's silly talk
 
simonhch said:
@sunama



I live in Chicago. We have season tickets to the Fire at work. I run a sports facility and we show most MLS games. I've seen a lot of it, though will admit I'm not much of a fan.

You listed a bunch of players who are either well over the hill, or just not that good in the first place, and all have been superb by MLS standards. Rooney would have no problems whatsoever in MLS and he'd instantly be one of the best players in the league.

I appreciate my opinion isn't a popular one, but I think the hyperbole surrounding his decline is exaggerated. For the record, I absolutely do not think he is good enough to start for United, and I have no objection to him leaving. But I bristle at the suggestion that he would struggle to get in a mid or lower table Prem team, or not good enough for the MLS. Because in my opinion that's just over the top.

I do not rate him highly at all anymore, but I believe he still has many useful qualities that are both under appreciated by fans accustomed to a much higher level, and which would be valued by lesser sides than ours. People are obsessed with pace and power, and while they are very important, they aren't the only qualities to be relevant. The top end of football performance is clearly beyond Wayne at this point, but I just don't see the abject shell of a man, who can't trap a ball, that so many fans froth at the mouth about.

I am also going to venture to put out there, that Rooney has come in for some fierce criticism from fans of England and Utd alike, and regardless of whether that is merited - and ignoring the size of his contract - must still have a deleterious effect on his confidence. I mean, he's just a person after all. At this point, I hope he can go on to have a successful denouement to his career elsewhere - because the terms he gets talked about around here, are frankly atrocious.
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Really good thoughts on the subject.
 
dichinero said:
My opinion on Rooney's football ability has little to do with contract or reputation. I don't care for his past exploits and achievements when I'm consider him now. The current Wayne Rooney is not good enough imo to be the best player MLS. His saving grace is his reputation, had a lesser known player put in the same performances that he has in the last couple of seasons, he would have been sold off ages ago.

We should be able to judge players without sentiments and blind hope sometimes, and call it for what it is. He will not walk into most teams in the PL, certainly not in the top 8 teams. The man can barely move, keep himself fit regularly, declined seriously technically. What makes him good enough to shift Arnautovic or Shaqiri or even Berahino at Stoke or Lanzini, Feghouli, Carroll at West Ham, Tadic, Long, Austin etc at Soton?

To be the best in the MLS, he will need to keep up with the pace. Ok, maybe not everyone needs pace but he is nowhere the levels of Kaka and Pirlo in terms of spatial awareness. He will need to be fit week in week out. Sadly I don't see any of these. He will be amongst the good to top players but not the best imo. He will pull out the odd spectacular now and then but he will never match the consistency the likes of Keane, Martins and Giovinco showed in the MLS.
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Rooney has always been better than Kaka. His passing is better, his shooting better and his passion higher.
 
simonhch said:
You, and others, consistently insult the intelligence of other posters by insisting that any appreciation of Rooney - however limited - is solely due to his reputation. The hyperbolic negativity typically reaches a nadir in the match day thread, where drama queens start frothing at the mouth at the first sign of a bad pass or touch.

It's become a tiresome subject, to be frank. We'll have to agree to disagree. Or whatever. I'm not trying to single you out, but threads like this, people just keep doubling down on nonsense to try and ram their point home. Leading to arguments where people are suggesting that a 31 yr old Rooney wouldn't be able to achieve the consistency of Obafeckingfemi Martins in a third rate league.
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Forget martins, hr cant even consistently trap a ball and make consistent 10 yard pass
 
He can't even walk properly. During matches he uses robotic legs.

It's true because I've said it.
 
He might not get into a top 6 side but he could still do it in the Premier League for a team like Everton, West Ham and the like.

He just can't hack it at United anymore. The standards are higher and we have better players in his position. Simply put. I'd rather he went to the Chinese League and became the face of that franchise though. It would be good for him. And if we can get a crazy transfer fee from them, even better.
 
I imagine that, in an ideal world, we'd have let him go this window, albeit we'd have gotten a replacement first. As it stands, you'd think whatever offer we could get now won't substantially drop in a few months, so letting him go when we need all hands on deck for a top 4 push could be dicey. Even more so now he plays in midfield (or at least ahead of a midfield two) where we don't have great cover.

All that said, I think it'll be a pretty amicable goodbye come the summer. I could see us foregoing much of a fee to allow him to move to MLS. He'll know the wind has changed and he's unlikely to play every week for us. Whether he has the appetite to go play for a lesser team in England, Everton apart, is questionable. I also suspect that Jose has been very honest with him in terms of his future prospects (albeit, his use of Rooney as his go to sub in the last couple of months might mean that's not right either).
 
Ogden, another one saying he could be off this month. I have a feeling the club would entertain the idea of selling him for big bucks this month, but Rooney isn't keen.
 
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K2K said:
I'm not a big Rooney fan but I think a lot of people are doing him massive disservice.

Just because he can't do it at United doesn't mean he wouldn't make it to any other premiership team.

I remember that people said the exact same thing about Darren Fletcher. That he wasn't good enough to even play in the SPL and should just retire. Now he is a mainstay in a very good premiership team playing every game.

Rooney has enough natural ability than many players in this league. Even at his advanced age. Time to time that quality still shines through. He was MOTM in the FA cup final less than 12 months ago.
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Good post; he's no longer as great as he once was for sure, but he's not as bad as many make him out to be
 
Adisa said:
Ogden, another one saying he could be off this month. I have a feeling the club would entertain the idea of selling him for big bucks this month, but Rooney isn't keen.
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I wouldn't be too; he should leave or stay on his terms. He's earned that at least
 
No way he's leaving this month, and not to China. Colleen seems quite close to her family and I suspect she wouldn't want to be that far away from them.
 
It feels a bit depressing know he's finally going to be off. Hopefully we have some dead rubbers he can play and score a couple of more goals before he does leave.
 
I know that Rooney doesn't often get acknowledged for his intelligence but I think even he can see that his time as a first team regular is up. Seeing Zlatan scoring and still being in the kind of physical condition he's in must make him realise that he's simply not capable of competing at the required level to challenge him, also probably aware that he'll face even further competition with any new summer signings during the summer.

For me Jose has played the whole situation perfectly. Kept the player onside by praising his achievements publicly, utilising him in the right way and for the benefit of the team, all while gently getting the message across that if he's not happy that it will be the player, not the manager who instigates a possible move.
 
Solver said:
I wouldn't be too; he should leave or stay on his terms. He's earned that at least
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I agree. The club won't force him out. The club will try to make it as amicable as possible.
 
If there's a massive offer on the table the club would be stupid not to at least try to get this done now, no real place for sentiment at this point, personally I would be pleased to see him leave now, rather than have it rubble on in the summer.
 
wr8_utd said:
It feels a bit depressing know he's finally going to be off. Hopefully we have some dead rubbers he can play and score a couple of more goals before he does leave.
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Agree. The Rooney chapter is soon over and it's a little sad as he's been at the club as long as I've supported United.
 
He is definitely leaving in the summer. He will continue to extend his scoring record, plus the club need him as a squad player, they would also like to give him the opportunity to sign off with some silverware.

His 300k a week contract is the main reason the club will look to get rid of him. That is too much money for a squad player to receive.

Rooney will end up in China as that is the only place where they will pay him the crazy wages he will want. He would prefer the MLS, but one of the Chinese clubs will make him the highest paid player in the world.
 
If Rooney was motivated he'd be comfortably the best player in the MLS.

Pop him in midfield with runners around him and he'd coast it. His intelligence is ahead of those who are perhaps superior athletes.

He's nowhere near our level anymore though, I think a big thing that's missing with him is the passion, the desire. He used to be so aggressive, but he's lost that a bit.

Maybe a move would rekindle his spirit and he'd be great at a premier league side. I don't think so though.
 
K2K said:
I remember that people said the exact same thing about Darren Fletcher. That he wasn't good enough to even play in the SPL and should just retire. Now he is a mainstay in a very good premiership team playing every game.
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I don't believe Rooney is good enough to play in the EPL, however, you have a good argument, there.
 
Should take a paycut and go to Everton in the summer. He cant win or do anything at United anymore after his record. Use him until the summer and then a last game in the summer for a nice goodbye and let him join Everton for another few years.
 
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