[Pogue Mahone]

Do you think there's any melodrama, Pogue?

Or are you saying the #10 in any team shouldn't be the most probing player in the side?

Implying he only attempted a single forwards pass in 90 minutes is melodramatic, yes.

I agree the number 10 should be taking the most risks in terms of their passing but the whole team is extremely risk averse under Van Gaal. Have a look at Herrera's passing graphic against Liverpool. It looks almost exactly the same. For whatever reason, every outfield player in the squad seems unwilling/unable to make progressive passes in the final third.

I suspect Van Gaal is happy with this and Rooney and Herrera were adhering to the game plan. Whether we - as fans - like it or not.

 

[Sarni]

Implying he only attempted a single forwards pass in 90 minutes is melodramatic, yes.

I agree the number 10 should be taking the most risks in terms of their passing but the whole team is extremely risk averse under Van Gaal. Have a look at Herrera's passing graphic against Liverpool. It looks almost exactly the same. For whatever reason, every outfield player in the squad seems unwilling/unable to make progressive passes in the final third.

I suspect Van Gaal is happy with this and Rooney and Herrera were adhering to the game plan. Whether we - as fans - like it or not.

No, he attempted 3 and misplaced 2 of them. Sideways passes at 1 degree angle are not forward passes.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

but he supposedly needs 2,3,4 games to get back to full fitness. So we are told

I don't know if he isn't fully fit, however, the treatment he's receiving is astonishing. What sort of standards are we setting by constantly giving him a free ride? Players such as Herrera, Fellaini, and Young haven't been anywhere near as bad as him, yet none are allowed to start a consistent number of games. Then we have youngsters like Wilson, Pereira and Lingard who could probably do a better job.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There was nothing wrong with the claim that he didn't pass the ball forward yet you had to tackle that with some statistics that don't really prove otherwise when you look at them in detail. Has there ever been a time when you actually admitted Rooney was crap without trying to justify him?

Yes. At least twice this season already.

You probably even have an argument for Martial scoring more away goals than Rooney this calendar year, international goals or whatever.

lol

 

[ZDwyr]

It's very unfair on the rest of the squad that he gets these privileges of keeping his spot. I was just imagining if Herrera, Fellaini, Young or anyone had put in that kind of performance, they probably would have been off at HT.

 

[Sarni]

It's very unfair on the rest of the squad that he gets these privileges of keeping his spot. I was just imagining if Herrera, Fellaini, Young or anyone had put in that kind of performance, they probably would have been off at HT.

Herrera would never be allowed at training ground after some of Rooney performances.

 

[clarkydaz]

if you take a step back you can see this is a new team that is ready to move on without him. He gets moved around the side to shoehorn him in somewhere but doesn't really justify it. There was no international tournament in the summer so was well rested for this start, the league seems to really have caught up with him

 

[Fortitude]

Implying he only attempted a single forwards pass in 90 minutes is melodramatic, yes.

I agree the number 10 should be taking the most risks in terms of their passing but the whole team is extremely risk averse under Van Gaal. Have a look at Herrera's passing graphic against Liverpool. It looks almost exactly the same. For whatever reason, every outfield player in the squad seems unwilling/unable to make progressive passes in the final third.

I suspect Van Gaal is happy with this and Rooney and Herrera were adhering to the game plan. Whether we - as fans - like it or not.

I didn't imply it. It was mentioned a number of times in the thread and I ended my post with: 'if it's true'.

Besides which, from that graphic, it's not far off the truth, so I'm not sure how it could be considered melodramatic.

The goalscoring burden was on Rooney at #9, but now he's dropped into the #10, the onus is on him, more than anyone else, to get the team ticking and moving progressively upfield, it's then a real concern when he's not willing to even attempt to do that.

I'd rather him have passes forward not come off than see him not try them at all. LVG is conservative and pragmatic, but if there's any one player he'll give creative licence to, it's his #10.

 

[RedStarUnited]

technically its forward I guess. But that pass of his is becoming a parody of itself, its embarrassingly predictable

But they are just like What Scholes used to do those passes! Im being sarcastic off course, the guy needs to buck up his ideas.

Implying he only attempted a single forwards pass in 90 minutes is melodramatic, yes.

I agree the number 10 should be taking the most risks in terms of their passing but the whole team is extremely risk averse under Van Gaal. Have a look at Herrera's passing graphic against Liverpool. It looks almost exactly the same. For whatever reason, every outfield player in the squad seems unwilling/unable to make progressive passes in the final third.

I suspect Van Gaal is happy with this and Rooney and Herrera were adhering to the game plan. Whether we - as fans - like it or not.

Not so sure, Basti has played a number of chance creating passes that Rooney has yet to play for us this season. Think of the pass to Mata vs PSV or Memphis yesterday. Where are Rooneys passes like that?

 

[Treble]

There is a simple explanation why LVG plays Rooney despite his poor form. It is not because Rooney is valuable to the team even when he puts in mediocre performances. And it is not because he expects Rooney to become world class again. LVG isn't that stupid. His motivation is related to the history of his failures at Barca and Bayern. When you look at the reasons behind his unsuccessful periods at those clubs, you see that he lost the plot in his relationship with the team. He is a smart guy and has understood his mistake. In order to avoid such a development at United, he regards his relationship with Rooney as key to controlling the team and avoiding the bad scenario from Barca and Bayern. It's about politics. LvG doesn't want to get the sack again because of losing the plot in his relationship with the team.

 

[FC Ronaldo]

In 50 minutes at St Mary's, Anthony Martial scored more away league goals than Wayne Rooney has managed since March 2014. He's played 1,753 fewer minutes.

 

[Adisa]

We really need the crying emoji on this site. It's the only way to describe it.

 

[Bobcat]

Didn't even think his all round game was bad today. The one counter attack pass to Memphis he messed up aside, his passing and touch and all that was good.

His passing and touch was "good" because he played with his back against the goal the whole match and just played it right back to the back four nine times out of ten. If you play as a number 10, you are expected to be the architect who creates chances for your team mates, not just recycle the ball back to the CB's. It's pointless.

Hes been getting a lot of abuse lately, and one might say people have an agenda against him, but most people (me included) are just feed up with seeing him delivering these kinds of lackluster performances, and still be guaranteed a starting spot. That's one thing, but what irks me the most is it seems he can't be arsed these days.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

There is a simple explanation why LVG plays Rooney despite his poor form. It is not because Rooney is valuable to the team even when he puts in mediocre performances. And it is not because he expects Rooney to become world class again. LVG isn't that stupid. His motivation is related to the history of his failures at Barca and Bayern. When you look at the reasons behind his unsuccessful periods at those clubs, you see that he lost the plot in his relationship with the team. He is a smart guy and has understood his mistake. In order to avoid such a development at United, he regards his relationship with Rooney as key to controlling the team and avoiding the bad scenario from Barca and Bayern. It's about politics. LvG doesn't want to get the sack again because of losing the plot in his relationship with the team.

I don't think anyone at the club would really moan about it if Rooney is shown the door but yeah its not worth burning a bridge when the transfer window is closed and he won't have a place to go. One knock to Martial and we'll be depending on him once again.

 

[roykeane19]

In 50 minutes at St Mary's, Anthony Martial scored more away league goals than Wayne Rooney has managed since March 2014. He's played 1,753 fewer minutes.

Silent domination aint no joke bro...........

 

[NJM78]

Rooney has been garbage this season apart from Brugge. Even the latter stage of last season he was the same.
Its unfortunate for him but he is just not the player for club or country that he used to be and I doubt he ever will be again. I think a spell on the sidelines (Captain or not) could reignite his passion which seems to also be lacking though maybe not his talent but even a 50% Rooney of old is still a valuable player to bring on. At the moment he is at about 25% and maybe that is being generous. We really cannot afford to carry players and although Mata was pretty bad against PSV at 10 I would give him a start in his favored role against Sunderland and bring Young on to the right. I think we can batter them and bring on Wayne when Sunderland players are tiring maybe.

 

[K2K]

In 50 minutes at St Mary's, Anthony Martial scored more away league goals than Wayne Rooney has managed since March 2014. He's played 1,753 fewer minutes.

Even Falcao scored more for us away from home in that period..and he's shite.

 

[RaptorSlo]

Martial had two chances all game. One was a pass from a defender, the other was a lucky break of the ball from a defender tackling a clearly offside Juan Mata.

Right now Martial's doing a great job of showing RvP/Falcao/Rooney how to be clinical in front of goal but for all that he's been direct and exciting to watch his addition to our team hasn't made us any more creative as a team, despite the relative goal glut of the last two games. Schweinsteiger playing his way into fitness and Depay's occasional moment of brilliance will hopefully move things in the right direction but we're still not creating nearly as many chances per game as we should be if we're going to have a good season. Martial hasn't changed this at all, unfortunately.

And 2 great runs that ended with 2 free kicks from the edge of the box and more general good play.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

And 2 great runs that ended with 2 free kicks from the edge of the box and more general good play.

Yeah, that doesn't take away from my point. Martial did great but the team still isn't creating enough.

 

[RaptorSlo]

Yeah, that doesn't take away from my point. Martial did great but the team still isn't creating enough.

But at least Martial is playing the game instead of just waiting to get the ball fed to him in the box.

 

[kidbob]

I'm usually a defender of his but this run of form is unacceptable. It's clear that it is quite difficult for forward players to shine in this system but his inadequacies can't be solely blamed on this. What's most perplexing to me is that he seems terrified to receive the ball and turn towards the opposition goal anymore. A lot of times yesterday he passed it back straight away without seeming to realise that there was a lot of space behind him that he could move into. I don't know if this is fear of losing the ball or just him lacking confidence is his ability now. I don't care if he gives the ball away or has the odd bad touch if he is willing to face the opposition and try to make things happen. In fact if he had done this the 3 or 4 times it was possible for him yesterday I would have been at least encouraged that he was trying to do the things needed and trying to play with bravery again.

I din't want to give up on him but he should be dropped for Herrera to give him a kick in the ass. He could still be lethal behind Martial and Depay simply if he grows the balls to run into that space when the opportunity arises. Although I must say I have had the same issue with Herrera at times when he has played the 10 role. Maybe it is just instruction or a fear of losing the ball because Ander has also lost the willingness to turn and drive at the defence when the chance is there. You can't tell me Rooney has lost the ability to run with a ball into clear space. It's a conundrum to be honest and sadly it takes away from the abilities of Martial and Depay because they would thrive off of that bit more directness and it would put the opposition on the back foot much more too.

However anyone talking about him ruining his repuatation and legacy here is a fool. The guy is a club legend regardless of what happens. He gave us at least 10 years of being a huge part of our success and it's quite sad that some here seem to forget or downplay his importance in them times regardless of if he needs to be gotten rid of presently.

 

[Lynty]

He doesn't even have the hunger to win back the ball anymore. Not sure what's up with him.

But at this present moment, i'm 100% certain that I have a better touch and movement than Rooney. For someone who is paid to play football, that is unacceptable.

 

[Summit]

Rooney, Rooney, wherefore art thou Rooney!

I had actually forgotten just how awesome he used to be.

 

[finneh]

He doesn't even have the hunger to win back the ball anymore. Not sure what's up with him.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned his pathetic attempt to dispossess Fonte in the lead up to their first goal. It was a small factor in the scheme of things and doesn't mean he's directly culpable but it infuriated me. Between Rooney and Schneiderlin one of them should have easily closed the space and either tackled the defender or forced him to play it sideways or backwards, but neither of them even attempted to do so; 2 passes later we're 1-0 down.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

But at least Martial is playing the game instead of just waiting to get the ball fed to him in the box.

If anything, Rooney would have scored more goals this season if he did more of that. His main problem as a striker has been coming back too deep to try and get on the ball earlier in the move. It was a problem at the weekend too.

 

[clarkydaz]

shit that was really sad to watch, he isn't a shadow of that anymore

 

[sunama]

It's a strange position we're in, Rooney breaking the England goalscoring record and subsequently (and continually) being well below average in the PL.

He's been well below average for England too.
Those 2 goals he scored (to get the record) were penalties, created by somebody else.
Where Walcott scored 2, against San Marino, Rooney scored a penalty. I'm not sure when the last time it was that he scored from open play, for England. [perhaps somebody can look this up]
Recently, his only good game was against Brugge, who were a side decimated with injury. And the 'b' team which did show up, would probably struggle to play in the Championship, let alone in the EPL.

The issue isn't that he is crap today or for the last week. The issue is that he has been crap for a long time. Last year, it was said that he was crap because he was played out of position.

The other thing I noticed on SKY, post match analysis, is that the pundits refused to say anything negative about Rooney. The fact that he is our senior striker and can't score - this was never mentioned. The fact that our winger (Mata) and a 19 year old have outscored Rooney. The fact that Rooney had no shots on goal, made no assists, no key passes and created nothing. The fact that all our other attackers were attempting to score goals, except Rooney. The fact that Rooney made no contribution whatsoever. All this was never discussed.

I gave Falcao a very hard time last year. I stated that playing with him on the pitch was like playing with 10 men. I now believe that Rooney has taken Falcao's place as the non-scoring striker.

 

[Raw]

I'm not sure when the last time it was that he scored from open play, for England. [perhaps somebody can look this up]

14th of June 2015, scored the winner against Slovenia in 3-2 Euro qualifier win. It was his 48th England goal.

Shown here (2:40)

 

[goin4glory]

It amazes me how some players are poor for 30-45mins and find themselves on the bench for weeks but Rooney is above being benched.

 

[gza the genius]

shit that was really sad to watch, he isn't a shadow of that anymore

I was just going to say the same thing, it's hard to believe that's the same player we have now.

 

[Lynty]

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned his pathetic attempt to dispossess Fonte in the lead up to their first goal. It was a small factor in the scheme of things and doesn't mean he's directly culpable but it infuriated me. Between Rooney and Schneiderlin one of them should have easily closed the space and either tackled the defender or forced him to play it sideways or backwards, but neither of them even attempted to do so; 2 passes later we're 1-0 down.

Damn I forgot about that. Fonte just surged straight through the middle, carrying the ball a good 40 yards without a player challenging him. I was screaming for Rooney to press him. 4 years ago, he would have stuck a foot in a took a yellow card rather than let a defender walk through his space.

 

[sunama]

14th of June 2015, scored the winner against Slovenia in 3-2 Euro qualifier win.

Okay...so not too long ago.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Damn I forgot about that. Fonte just surged straight through the middle, carrying the ball a good 40 yards without a player challenging him. I was screaming for Rooney to press him. 4 years ago, he would have stuck a foot in a took a yellow card rather than let a defender walk through his space.

Four years ago? He got sent off one year ago for doing more or less exactly that to Mark Noble. Which may well have been in his mind at that moment yesterday.

 

[Hed Zitin]

There is zero fire in him. He's coasting.

He doesn't even tackle anymore. I keep watching him close someone down, stick his leg out a bit, but there is zero conviction in his effort to actually tackle anyone.

I could not believe it when he had that clear shot right on the edge of the box and he passed it sideways. That is not Rooney. Two years ago he'd of done that annoying thing where he kept trying to chip the goal keeper from distance or simply had a crack at goal.

I want the lad that plays with an edge back. It's like watching a totally new player now with this mindset. Big mistake making him captain, that's made it worse.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Rooney, Rooney, wherefore art thou Rooney!

I had actually forgotten just how awesome he used to be.

I for one certainly took Rooney for granted during the Ronaldo era. Fantastic player that was clearly over-shadowed by Ronaldo, who was obviously a level above. Still, to have that Rooney again would be glorious.

I definitely find it sad how much he's deteriorated. Just seems his body has used all the gas.

 

[Shark]

Rooney, Rooney, wherefore art thou Rooney!

I had actually forgotten just how awesome he used to be.

It's almost as if we have an imposter playing for us these days.

 

[Adisa]

Watched that video a few weeks ago. Depressing watch. He was an unbelievable player.

 

[Rozay]

Implying he only attempted a single forwards pass in 90 minutes is melodramatic, yes.

I agree the number 10 should be taking the most risks in terms of their passing but the whole team is extremely risk averse under Van Gaal. Have a look at Herrera's passing graphic against Liverpool. It looks almost exactly the same. For whatever reason, every outfield player in the squad seems unwilling/unable to make progressive passes in the final third.

I suspect Van Gaal is happy with this and Rooney and Herrera were adhering to the game plan. Whether we - as fans - like it or not.

You are right about our passing against Liverpool, particularly in the first half, but it should also be noted that Herrera had Fellaini ahead of him, not Martial. The best number 10s would struggle to be sliding passes down the side for Fellaini. His movement as a centre forward is shocking, and he has no pace to stretch whatsoever.

Besides, I don't think it can be argued that Herrera doesn't or cannot consistently attempt and complete forward passes anyway, but yea, he didn't against Liverpool.

 

[Rozay]

If anything, Rooney would have scored more goals this season if he did more of that. His main problem as a striker has been coming back too deep to try and get on the ball earlier in the move. It was a problem at the weekend too.

This is the point, top strikers can do that. Martial wasn't standing in the box waiting for his goal at Liverpool, but it's a goal Rooney wouldn'tbe able to score, as when he does drop back, he doesn't have that physical or technical quality to be a threat.

 

[Adisa]

Mata has 14 shots in the premierleague to Rooney's 8. Mata doesn't even shoot regularly. What's wrong with this guy?