Don't see many defending Rooney these days and except for the media/pundits most realise he's past his best. Well they probably do too but don't want to go there yet.
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 41
- Goals
- 15
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Status
Exactly. Still a few hardcore ones though who get a sneaky comment or two in in other threads. I guess it he's earned these fanatics after so many years of service, like the breaking traces in your boxer shorts that just won't wash out.
reminds me of Darmian saying how impressed he was with Rooney losing possession but always trying to get it back
its embarrassing all these punters (his mates) defending the England captain leading to the Euros. When the summer is over he will be slaughtered
So Rooney ends 2015 with:
5 PL Goals from open play
1 PL Assist
2841mins in the PL
1 Goal every 568mins
1 Assist every 2841mins
1 Goal+Assist every 474mins
Oh dear.
That's really sad. I swear if we put any of our defenders in his shoes he would have better numbers. He wouldn't probably be any worse in his all around play either.
That's really embarrassing, if we don't try our best to sell him or even plan our next season(even this so far is one big farce) without him as a starter then this club is truly run by idiots, I seriously can't see how anyone can think otherwise. Absolutely pathethic.
I actually used to be one of those people who backed him using statistics.
but now that he can't contribute to our team by scoring goals at least, so there's nothing to defend him for any longer. therefore I've jumped the ship.
christ, he's worse than falcao was last season and falcao was pretty bad last season!
You deserve nothing when your "main man" is present day Wayne Rooney.
I wonder if this is how they speak in the dressing room, still treating Rooney as if he's this great player, and pretending to think highly of him. I imagine it would be slightly uncomfortable for a few to do that, and I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't sometimes become an issue.
Funnily enough, as things stand, 20-year Martial is our talisman and the one we really rely on.
I can't click that link, but I seriously cannot believe that Smalling would say that out of nothing. I reckon they asked him if Rooney is a good captain or something like that so of course you can't expect him to criticise him, because I saw many of similar interviews from our other players praising Rooney like that. Surely they aren't that stupid and that's just PR bullshit, I wouldn't be surprised if our club is forcing it too making players to say things like that.
However, it's sad.
The hosts on talksport have just Destroyed him to be fair to them. First time ive seen the press swing against him.
About time. What did they say?
They had a go at him before with Collymore's show.
I heard Jason Cundy say Waynes legs had gone and that next summer there might not be any justification in taking him to the Euros.
Wayne Rooney PL Stats (Minus Pens):
2012 - 13 Goals, 9 Assists - 115mins per contribution
2013 - 13 Goals, 12 Assists - 92mins per contribution
2014 - 15 Goals, 5 Assists - 119mins per contribution
2015 - 5 Goals, 1 Assist - 474mins per contribution
2015 not a year to remember for Wayne despite it being the most mins he's played in the PL in all 4 years. His average mins is 2516, yet he managed 2841 this year.
Wayne Rooney PL Stats (Including Pens):
2012 - 21 Goals, 9 Assists - 84mins per contribution
2013 - 14 Goals, 12 Assists - 89mins per contribution
2014 - 16 Goals, 5 Assists - 114mins per contribution
2015 - 5 Goals, 1 Assist - 406mins per contribution
A pretty grim downward curve, although 2012 to 2014 stats aren't too shabby. Either Van Gaal has destroyed Waynes confidence in the final third or that's it for Rooney as a striker. I'll do a quick summary of those years but with Manager breakdowns shortly.
2012 - 13 Goals, 9 Assists - 115mins per contribution
2013 - 13 Goals, 12 Assists - 92mins per contribution
2014 - 15 Goals, 5 Assists - 119mins per contribution
2015 - 5 Goals, 1 Assist - 474mins per contribution
2015 not a year to remember for Wayne despite it being the most mins he's played in the PL in all 4 years. His average mins is 2516, yet he managed 2841 this year.
Wayne Rooney PL Stats (Including Pens):
2012 - 21 Goals, 9 Assists - 84mins per contribution
2013 - 14 Goals, 12 Assists - 89mins per contribution
2014 - 16 Goals, 5 Assists - 114mins per contribution
2015 - 5 Goals, 1 Assist - 406mins per contribution
A pretty grim downward curve, although 2012 to 2014 stats aren't too shabby. Either Van Gaal has destroyed Waynes confidence in the final third or that's it for Rooney as a striker. I'll do a quick summary of those years but with Manager breakdowns shortly.
In I the only one that thinks even his "good" years were very standard for a so called elite player. I mean 21 goals and 9 assists is pretty meh considering the numbers the likes of Henry before him and Suarez now are outputting.
Stats taken from 2012 onwards
Wayne Rooney PL Stats (Minus Pens):
Sir Alex: 18 Goals, 12 Assists - 116mins per contribution
Moyes: 13 Goals, 10 Assists - 103mins per contribution
Giggs: 2 Goals, 0 Assists - 45mins per contribution
Van Gaal: 13 Goals, 5 Assists - 230mins per contribution
Wayne Rooney PL Stats (Including Pens):
Sir Alex: 26 Goals, 12 Assists - 91mins per contribution
Moyes: 15 Goals, 10 Assists - 94mins per contribution
Giggs: 2 Goals, 0 Assists - 45mins per contribution
Van Gaal: 14 Goals, 5 Assists - 218mins per contribution
Now whats interesting about Van Gaals stats is that if you remove 2015 terrible stats then it actually reads as 109mins per contribution. Which is a bit worse than Moyes but not by much. So to conclude, the issue for Rooney comes from his 2015 stats and doesn't seem to be an issue with Van Gaal given that his first 6 months under Van Gaal was bang on his normal form.
Wayne Rooney PL Stats (Minus Pens):
Sir Alex: 18 Goals, 12 Assists - 116mins per contribution
Moyes: 13 Goals, 10 Assists - 103mins per contribution
Giggs: 2 Goals, 0 Assists - 45mins per contribution
Van Gaal: 13 Goals, 5 Assists - 230mins per contribution
Wayne Rooney PL Stats (Including Pens):
Sir Alex: 26 Goals, 12 Assists - 91mins per contribution
Moyes: 15 Goals, 10 Assists - 94mins per contribution
Giggs: 2 Goals, 0 Assists - 45mins per contribution
Van Gaal: 14 Goals, 5 Assists - 218mins per contribution
Now whats interesting about Van Gaals stats is that if you remove 2015 terrible stats then it actually reads as 109mins per contribution. Which is a bit worse than Moyes but not by much. So to conclude, the issue for Rooney comes from his 2015 stats and doesn't seem to be an issue with Van Gaal given that his first 6 months under Van Gaal was bang on his normal form.
He got away with it because there was always somebody else to carry the load, RVN early on, Ronaldo outshone him for years, Tevez contributed, Hernandez, RVP. Once RVP went he has been found out.
Are those 2015 statistics correct btw? Surely he's statistically one of the worst players in the entire league with those stats?
For instance what are Danny welbecks goals and assists for 2015?
For instance what are Danny welbecks goals and assists for 2015?
For years people have been banging on about his work rate and the fact he is all over the pitch, and to some degree that is a good thing, but to me it has always smacked of positional indiscipline. I want my 10 or 9 to be in the final 3rd creating or scoring, not at left back. Had he been more disciplined over the years he would have had more impressive stats.
Depending on how irritated I am on any given day by the spud faced chancer I either put it down to an unselfish willingness to work for the team or a case of Stevie me syndrome and wanting to do it all himself and be Roy of the rovers.
Im on a facebook United group with mostly older United fans and those guys won't hear a bad word about Rooney. The delusion is incredible. Red tinted glasses
He was never an "elite" player. Was a level below even at his peak.
This is truth that has always been hidden from him. Fans, media and pundits alike has continually feed him and his convoy that he is in the same breath as the top players. His success has mainly hinged on the fact that he was a young prodigy and his goal count is as a result of his long career. United fans have fallen into the false that Rooney was one the top players. He was very good in his pomp but not as good as it was exaggerated. I believe his fellow pros dont help when they keep saying that Wayne Rooney is currently among the world's best. Yaya Toure said he's the 3rd best player in the world. This will only feed his ego.
It's times like this I really wished we gave Fergie more credit. He was aware that Rooney could not lead the attack but be a support act at best, which is not a bad tag. Rooney always had superior attack leaders ahead of him while he flourished as a support player and team player. RvN, Saha Ronaldo, RvP et al come to mind. Any wonder why Fergie consistently brought in more forward players to the club since Rooney joined the club. Smith, Diouf, Manucho, Rossi, Hernandez, Berbatov and many others were brought in quickly to lead the attack of United. Fergie realised that the spearhead didn't have to be the best player but a player that was able to be the point of attack, Rooney did not fit that profile.
I am aware that there were two seasons where he bagged at least 30 goals (and sadly we came second), he still didn't look comfortable in the aforementioned role as attack leader. Fergie was quick to attack this problem but I feel Rooney must have believed that it was time to be promoted into the exclusive role. This is where the problem got worse IMO. Rooney had been heralded as the "white Pele", now been mentioned alongside Ronaldo and Messi who were leading the attacks of their respective clubs, he was now closing in on the English and United scoring records. Fergie just knew, I believe he could not shoulder that burden but Rooney being the new " big man" begged to differ. If he could have accepted that he could not bear that burden but continue as a support player we could have brought in a major striker IMO. What Rooney is currently suffering from is trying to be the team leader and attack leader at the same time. It's too much for him.
United (regardless of who we bring in) and England will continue to suffer IF they keep thinking that Rooney is the guy to "lead" attacks. He needs to humbly accept that it's too big for him. I appreciate Rooney the United team leader but I think Rooney the United attack leader is about championship level IMO. If he really wants to be the team player in my books, he needs to drop this silly pride and play for the forward progression of the team. Of course, the media, pundits and fans must help him along with the truth. Fergie was truly a genius.
For the last 3-4 years, definitely. He transformed into a player who would put up decent numbers but put in ordinary performances. Plenty of us would criticize him for it, because it was evident that, despite his goals, his overall game has degenerated big time. Funnily enough, that mirrors the situation with our football team as well. Just like Rooney went from end product masking other issues, United went from trophies masking other issues.
Having said that, he's never been as good as Henry or Suarez.
A goal or an assist every 84 mins is 'pretty meh' now? Are you taking the piss?
Did he get away with it when he scored 34 goals twice then? He had his best individual season after Ronaldo left. Just because he's struggling now past his peak doesn't mean he wasn't great before.
Not all elite players have to be the main striker. That's like dismissing Di Maria's contributions in his final season at Madrid because Ronaldo scored all the goals, or dismissing Ozil's contribution to Arsenal this season because he's the one assisting and not scoring, it's ridiculous. Rooney made a fantastic contribution to United from 2006-2012 where he was a top 10 player in world football with some of those seasons pushing top 5.
I can understand people criticising the current Rooney, but I don't understand how United fans can underrate his contribution during his peak. He wasn't Messi or Ronaldo but he was an elite player.
He was an excellent young player and between ages say 23-26 he was one of the best in the world. Never the best but worthy of his reputation.
That's really not true isn't it?
In 2006 he was nowhere on the list for Ballon d'Or, in 2007 he finished 26th, 2008 - 13th, 2009 8th, 2010 not even in top20, 2011 5th, 2012 15th.
Ballon d'Or list doesn't have to be crucial argument, but it probably helps him more than not considering he was one of our best players during that period, is Englands best player and worldwide he is one of the most famous players, and we all know that's more important for Ballon d'Or than his qualities as a footballer.
I'd argue these awards favour the main goal scorers rather than the support act. Also he came 17th in the 2006 FIFA World Player of the Year and 13th in 2007 but I wouldn't really use these lists as a crucial argument like you've said.
I'm more inclined to say in my argument that:
In 06/07 he was a key player in a team that won the prem and got to the semis of the CL, earned praise from Carlo Ancelotti after he scored a brace against AC Milan who claimed that United don't just have one special player in Ronaldo but also Rooney.
In 07/08 he was a key player in a premier league and champions league winningteam.
08/09 he was a key player in a team that won the prem and reached a CL final, he also won golden boot in the CWC that we won as well
09/10 34 goals, he was voted best player in the premier league
10/11 shit first half but his second half was some of the best football we've seen from him
11/12 34 goals for us in a season where we finished level on goal difference with the champions, had one of the best big game scoring records in Europe.
So yeah I'd say he was an elite player from 2006-2012 and in my opinion he was a top 10 player in the world during that time. I'd say he was top 5 in 09/10 and top 5 during the second half of 10/11 and start of 11/12.
Your argument is even more filmsy that the balon d'or one.
He was nowhere near the top 5 after 2010...that's just laughable....especially considering the form of Barca, Real players at the time, with Sneijder , the Bayern players.
Consider that he wasnt even the best in the league either since then...or in the top 3 at any of that time.
I'll give him 2009/10 as he was sensational around that year, but he's been just a good player other than based on any tangible metric.
It's not laughable at all, we reached the CL final with him being the key player. He also scored in the CL final. Pretty sure he came 5th in the Ballon D'or because of that form.
Isn't it a bit sad that he reached his peak at that age when most players have yet to reach theirs?
Most players weren't as good as him at a young age though.
That is likely what SAF was taking into account when he wanted rid. Wayne started playing really early so it was a possibility that he would go downhill earlier than most.
Herein lies the problem. The qualitative description of the modern footballer is so broad and the distinctive lines have become so blurry. It used to be bad, good and world class. The English media is particularly to blame for this, calling every Tom, Dick and Boris that puts in a "surprisingly" good shift world class. For me, I had to use the following distinct category to make it clearer.
Poor
This is a PL footballer who has no business being on the pitch or on the bench. He will barely be a regular player in a Championship side. Usually a player that comes into the league via a promoted side or a very young and inexperienced player. He may thrive in other leagues but the PL is too huge a step for him. Tyler Blackett.
Average
This is the MINIMUM requirement IMO for a squad player in a low to mid table PL club. He should be able to do the basics of football well enough that should warrant a starting place in any Championship side. This is also the minimum requirement for a youth player coming into a top PL side. Paddy McNair.
Good
This is where it gets interesting. This PL player should be able to stand out in the Championship with ease. This is the minimum requirement for the squad player for a top PL side. The PL should be vastly populated with this calibre of player. Ashley Young.
Very Good
This is where I believe a lot of fans begin to exaggerate. A very good PL player is one that stands out in the PL in quality and consistency. This PL has the ability to put in world class performances once in a while but that will not stand out amongst the best of his peers. A lot of players that are called world class are really just very good players. Chris Smalling
World Class
World class players are players that can stand shoulder to shoulder with their peers in their respective positions. They may not make the World XI but will hardly upset the balance of the World XI side if they replace another in the line up. For me they are usually limited to the best 3-5 within their respective position. De Gea
Elite
Elite players are simply players that set new boundaries within their footballing discipline. They are consistently in the WXI even without hitting top form every season. Messi & Ronaldo (Lahm and Neuer are close IMO)
With the above, Rooney has never been elite and has not always been world class in his prime. An average player may put in the odd world class performance but that does not make him a world class player. It's called hitting a purple patch. Rooney is the typical very good player that could put in world class shifts. He will always be remembered as a the world class footballer but never the world class forward IMO. Rooney has never been as good as Henry, Suarez, Aguero, Ruud (and these guys have just been world class IMO) as a forward so how can he be called elite. Right now, Rooney is just a good player and won't be long before he becomes average is his decline is continuing at this rate.
Well I just assumed you meant world class by elite. For me he was a world class footballer during that period. Aguero and Ruud are/were better strikers than Rooney but I'll have peak Rooney as the better footballer or at least on a par with Aguero. He's also not just been great in the PL but also in the CL, hence a lot of players abroad have a lot of respect for him + top managers like Ancelotti and Guardiola. Peak Rooney is a tactical dream for any manager, passing range and work rate to drop back into midfield when needed in big games, able to be shifted out wide if a 433 is needed and you still get work rate + attacking quality. That's probably why Jose really wanted to manage him.
I'm not totally disputing what you are saying here but I submit to you that a lot of recommendations are a result of hype and marketability Rooney's main hype is drawn from the fact that 1) he came onto the scene as a child, 2) sold to the biggest club for a record breaking fee for a teen, 3) he is English (believe it or not, this makes a big impact on how people view players unfortunately), 4) he has been at United for a relatively long time, 5) he has won a lot in that time, 6) he was really good at football too. Now, this is not to discredit Rooney past, he has been a great servant to United and to football but a lot of times their is more hype than fact when it comes to Rooney, which is a common trend for many English players. The combination of English and Manchester United is very very marketable. Other foreign managers say what they say about Rooney when questioned by the English media and not voluntarily. Do you really believe it when a top player still says that Rooney is amongst the top 5 players in the world? I don't. If Rooney was from San Marino and played for Juventus (for the sake of it) , he wouldn't have as much attention attached to him.
No doubt about it, Rooney was one of the few players that epitomized being a "team player with a fighting spirit". Rarely will you find a player that couples that with a good technical and attacking attributes. This is what makes him stand out. He was a dream for any manager because he ticked many boxes and was good at them, making him a desirable footballer but he never stood out at any one thing.
He's gonna cost van Gaal his job.
Actually I feel quality English and Manchester United players are generally underrated in our own country but rated appropriately abroad. Rio Ferdinand for me is one of the best centre backs I've ever seen, but it doesn't seem like he gets that amount of credit. Michael Carrick seems to be rated more by people from abroad than in England. Paul Scholes has only recently got the credit he deserves. And for me, I feel Rooney has been underrated in recent years because England blame him for all their failures.
Not having it that Van Nistelrooy was obviously better than Rooney. He scored a lot of goals in a team that didn't actually win very much, and this at a time when there was no oiled up Chelsea and City (i.e. less competition).
I'll take Rooney's talents and contributions to the United cause every day of the week.
I'll take Rooney's talents and contributions to the United cause every day of the week.
Man Utd 2:1 Swansea
I think there's been a few signs of him turning this around. I think he's been very unfit this season, more than usual. Seeing him today he looks a lot better than before. I think a lot of our players have been looking awfully unfit, like Schweinsteiger, Depay, Carrick to name a few. There's a chance it's down to Van Gaals training methods. Sometimes these sort of things pans out during a season or LVG just upped the doze of training in the past month and that's why they've been looking so tired recently. I think it's 100% sure W.Rooney will come back strong in the second half of the season.
Some will say he's played better again today but for me, it's just a lowering of standards.
He offers so little as a striker (his job is to score goals) and he never looks a threat. It's a blunt forward line. We have to batter the ball over the line to score because Rooney offers zero finesse.
He offers so little as a striker (his job is to score goals) and he never looks a threat. It's a blunt forward line. We have to batter the ball over the line to score because Rooney offers zero finesse.
He's been alright today. He hasn't fecked up an attack with a shit touch so far and one of his hollywood passes even came off. Progress.
- Status