No. Rooney is younger and the player I thought he'd end up becoming was better than Van Persie is today. So I'm still hoping
Or are you asking me whether I'd swap Rooney with teen Rooney?
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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No. Rooney is younger and the player I thought he'd end up becoming was better than Van Persie is today. So I'm still hoping
Or are you asking me whether I'd swap Rooney with teen Rooney?
I'm just pissed because ever since the Euro's Rooney's contribution last season has been undermined on here IMO.
With Drogba gone now I think Rooney is the #1 striker in England. RVP hasn't accomplished anything and his fitness record is awful. Yes his scoring rate is ridiculous and he had an amazing season but Rooney is simply the better all around footballer.
Big matches usually mean big teams, not games that we just feck up in. He scored twice away to city in the cup but in the league with lineup we came out with we had no hope to snatch anything in that game. In most of the big games last season Rooney excelled in, and stepped up his game.
No. Rooney is younger and the player I thought he'd end up becoming was better than Van Persie is today. So I'm still hoping
Or are you asking me whether I'd swap Rooney with teen Rooney?
I would definitely swap Rooney with teen Rooney.
Rooney is simply the better all round footballer yet Van Persie was the best footballer in England last season?
The accomplishment line is silly. In that case no Arsenal player is better than any United player.
Not to mention Rooney has had a fantastic scoring record for us. One that can match any striker in England these past few years.
Scored against City in FA Cup, Scored against Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs.
Basel he was garbage but so was the rest of the team and the tactics and selection. City away Fergie went for the draw. Wigan away he was bad but was amazing the next game against Everton.
We would be fecked without him. No question about that.
No. Rooney is younger and the player I thought he'd end up becoming was better than Van Persie is today. So I'm still hoping
Or are you asking me whether I'd swap Rooney with teen Rooney?
No, was talking about RVP vs Rooney.
I just think the younger Rooney is overrated here. He was an exciting talent but people tend to exaggerate how good he was. I still think he'l get better now and there's no way i'd have RVP ahead of him. Cracking last season aside, Rooney is the better all round player. There are fitness issues too obviously.
Exactly.
Well I don't. He is a better player today but as good as he is, going on that potential I thought he'd be even better. The way he used to run at defenders, bulldozing past them, monster of a shot etc I expected the finishing and maturity to come anyway. Huge expectations, I know, but that's how exciting a talent he was.
Lets' put it this way, I expected him to match Henry's level.
His last season was exceptional, i doubt he'l be able to repeat it though. Has never had a season like that before either. Injuries are his main problem though, if he stays injury free, he'd always bang them in. I still rate Rooney's overall game to be better than RVP though. A fit RVP is the better goalscorer and pure striker though. Rooney has more to his game.
Anyways, exam tomorrow.
Nah, he was more exciting to watch then but he's definitely a better player now. Unless you're talking about swapping him for being entertained.
His goal output is better, but we already have Hernandez who does well as a poacher. What else has improved?
Entertain being the appropriate word. Rooney is definitely the better player now, people (including me) just miss the excitement he provided with his bullet shots and dribbling as a teenager.
Messi and Ronaldo are less exciting than they used to be as well (still pretty fecking exciting though), they've also taken aspects out of their game in order to score more goals.
The Ronaldo of 06/07 for example was far more enjoyable to watch than the Ronaldo of now, despite not being as good/effective a player.
Messi and Ronaldo are less exciting than they used to be as well (still pretty fecking exciting though), they've also taken aspects out of their game in order to score more goals.
The Ronaldo of 06/07 for example was far more enjoyable to watch than the Ronaldo of now, despite not being as good/effective a player.
Pace - Draw
Strength - Rooney
Dribbling - RVP
Hold Up - Rooney
Passing (short) - RVP
Passing (long) - Rooney
Passing (through/creative) - Rooney
Pitch intelligence - Rooney
Movement - Rooney
Finishing (long range) - Rooney
Finishing (inside box) - Draw
Heading - Rooney
Free kicks/penalties - RVP
How many top-notch performances has RVP done against the top teams in top competition? Yes a few, like against Chelsea in the league last year.
Rooney has a significant amount more - AC Milan on more than 1 occasion, Chelea in the CL, Arsenal in the CL, Bayern in the CL, Roma in CL, and plus Rooney scored against perhaps the greatest team in our generation in the CL Finals.
While Rooney did most of these RVP was sitting in a hospital somewhere.
I think I know what player I would rather have.
His goal output is A LOT better, though. To have a striker scoring over 30 goals in 2 out of the last 3 seasons is a big deal. That in itself is better than Rooney as a kid. On top of that he is more mature whether it comes to both behavior and overall play.
He wasn't even that entertaining. Brilliant on his day but much much more inconsistent than he is now.
People seem to remember him as this unstoppable force of nature during his debut season. In reality, he had a few very good games and a lot of average to poor ones. Which explains why he only scored 17 goals.
It's the nature of memory though. We remember players/seasons gone by as highlight reels, deleting all the boring/underwhelming stuff.
Another myth that winds me up about Rooney is how he used to score loads of long range screamers and never does any more. I'll bet any money that he scored more goals from outside the box in the season just gone than in any previous season with United.
3 years ago people were complaining that Rooney is inconsistent. Now he's one of the most consistent goal scorers on the planet. Welcome to the caf.
Yeah, but with Ronaldo it doesn't matter because the guy scores 60 goals in a season. If he scored 30, it would be talked about a lot more. Like I said, Henry is the level I thought he'd be at. Of course his own level is also awesome.
It's just an example of another player who took 'exciting' aspects from his game in order to become a more consistent player overall. Players progress, the club obviously wanted Rooney to become more of a goalscorer, especially when Ronaldo left, and that's what he's transformed into.
His dribbling skills as a teenager are very overrated here. He was never a brilliant exciting dribbler. Same with those long range bullets that people tend to remember him scoring, rare occurrences. He makes much better use of the ball now
It's a bit like Anderson. An impressive debut gets fans all hyped over a player and the warm fuzzy feeling makes them immune from criticism for the whole season, if not one or two seasons after that. Even if, in reality, they're extremely inconsistent and often quite poor. Then, a few years later, when the player doesn't quite reach the dizzy heights first predicted people start insisting he's regressed as opposed to just not quite turning out as good as first hoped.
The crucial difference being that Rooney has come a hell of a lot closer to fulfilling all the hype than our big-boned Brazilian. And there's better still to come.
Don't know about just United but taking his time at Everton also into account I remember him having a ferocious shot when he was a teenager. Then he stopped doing them for a fairly long time only to score a few last season. But I think if my memory seves me correctly his shots from distance were a lot more consistently threatening back then.
Again, I'm not suggesting he was this all conquering force that blew everyone away. But the potential was of that sorts. I think it's understood that when it's a young player you'll have moments of bad decision, inconsistencies and such things.
If his shooting from distance really was "more consistently threatening" wouldn't that translate into goals?
I think it's much more likely that it felt more threatening because we were all so excited about him and - in reality - goals like that screamer against Newcastle were extremely few and far between.
Not to mention since that single glorious chip against David James he's felt the need to try a bazillion of them in every match and not scored a single one since.
There's only one facet of Rooney's game that has gotten worse with age and that's his ability to 'break away' from defences. He used to be freakishly fast for his build, and if a ball was put through he'd outpace everyone - something he definitely can't do anymore.
Other than that he's developed from an occasionally awe-inspiring, temperamental, inconsistent talent to one of the top 5 players in the world. I'll take it.
Other than that he's developed from an occasionally awe-inspiring, temperamental, inconsistent talent to one of the top 5 players in the world. I'll take it.
Again, noone said he was as talented dribblers as the best in Europe. But combining his ability and his strength he was a scary proposition when he used it. The goal he set up for Ruud who took the ball on his chest and scored. The France game where was running at players brilliantly. The goal against Arsenal for Everton which was not spectacular but the confidence with which he took on defenders is no something you see these days.
The best Rooney we have seen IMO is the Rooney at the end of the 09 season and the end of the 2011 season. Perfect combo of playmaker and scorer.
My memory of Rooney in his earlier years with us is that he was good/promising in his first year with us, but genuinely about 5x the player in his second season. He brought so many different aspects of his game together all at once, yet wasn't a consistent goalscorer. Now, he's a consistent goalscorer and a better passer, yet with less directness and inferior dribbling ability. In general, it strikes me that he's more hesitant and not as good on the ball in general to be honest, although he's still a cracking player.
One of the main differences now is that he doesn't really even look to beat his man (or doesn't look serious about doing it), and for me it shows in his overall play. It doesn't seem quite so dangerous in some ways. Fergie pretty much acknowledged this when he highlighted how during his earlier days he was one of the best players he'd ever seen for turning on a man and running at him; now, he's far more likely to spread it out wide to Valencia or Young.
I don't know which Rooney is better. My head says this one is, and it also says we need this type of Rooney more. I don't know if I'm just saying that because I'm scared of trusting my memory of how good a player was 6 years ago though because, from what I remember, Rooney of 05/06 was amazing. We would've been absolutely fecked without him.
One of the main differences now is that he doesn't really even look to beat his man (or doesn't look serious about doing it), and for me it shows in his overall play. It doesn't seem quite so dangerous in some ways. Fergie pretty much acknowledged this when he highlighted how during his earlier days he was one of the best players he'd ever seen for turning on a man and running at him; now, he's far more likely to spread it out wide to Valencia or Young.
I don't know which Rooney is better. My head says this one is, and it also says we need this type of Rooney more. I don't know if I'm just saying that because I'm scared of trusting my memory of how good a player was 6 years ago though because, from what I remember, Rooney of 05/06 was amazing. We would've been absolutely fecked without him.
That's because defenders double up on him.
It's the same reason people keep saying Ronaldo can't dribble as well as he used to. Much easier to isolate and beat defenders when the opposition doesn't have specific tactics to nullify you.
messi and iniesta still take the piss when it comes to beating a man no matter how many line up to try.It's not just that. You actually believe he's as good with the ball at feet as he used to be? Degrees of difference is arguable but I'd be surprised if you think he's just as good.
For example, Ronaldo gets marked much more but he clearly was so much better at dribbling when he was younger. He just scores about 5 times as much as he used to so noone gives a crap. Although he still does take players on.
You think Ronaldo has somehow lost the ability to manipulate the ball with his feet as well as he used to? Despite having the benefit of several years more elite coaching and experience of playing football at the highest level? Why would that happen?
They're both better at dribbling than either Ronaldo or Rooney ever was.
There's a clear difference in Rooney and Ronaldo's approach when it comes to dribbling now as opposed to in their earlier years, in my opinion. They are marked more heavily granted, but it's very apparent how much more willing they were to take on their men in similar situations when they were younger. The difference in Ronaldo now and Ronaldo in 06/07 is massive...it surely cannot be contested.
I doubt they've randomly just become worse at dribbling in a technical sense; it'll be a mental thing. Rooney may have lost his spontaneity when we curbed his aggression, and Ronaldo might have suffered as a result of a shift in priorities (turning his focus more towards goalscoring, rendering dribbling less natural).
These two are such clear examples in favour of the thinking behind that 'attacking the space' thread. Neither were dribblers of the very highest level, yet they always had the drive to take the initiative and drive forward when the opportunity presented itself. It takes confidence and a specific mentality to do that, and I'm guessing these two have less of that now (in regards to dribbling).
I doubt they've randomly just become worse at dribbling in a technical sense; it'll be a mental thing. Rooney may have lost his spontaneity when we curbed his aggression, and Ronaldo might have suffered as a result of a shift in priorities (turning his focus more towards goalscoring, rendering dribbling less natural).
These two are such clear examples in favour of the thinking behind that 'attacking the space' thread. Neither were dribblers of the very highest level, yet they always had the drive to take the initiative and drive forward when the opportunity presented itself. It takes confidence and a specific mentality to do that, and I'm guessing these two have less of that now (in regards to dribbling).
I have no idea but he definitely has. Torres has elite coaching too but he's turned into a pile of turd.
I'm interested in knowing why you think their dribbling decline has occurred in different ways. How do we know Ronaldo wasn't curbed by Ferguson somewhere between 2007 and 2008, or that Rooney shifted his priorities?
He did take them on more often, agreed but he wasnt a good dribbler. He used to use his speed to hustle past them. He tries them now too at times but in general tends to play a more refined game as he has got more tools now.
He has changed his style and must have changed his training methods to optimize his present game. I doubt he spends as much time as he used to practicing his dribbling because it has certainly gotten worse.
I don't particularly think that Ronaldo's dribbling and all-round ability on the ball is worse now. He's largely changed his game at Real Madrid and has almost turned into a more direct goalscorer at times, but when he wants to dribble he's still as good as he ever was, if not better.
He did look pretty good at for Portugal this summer.
Nani, however, should be factored in when discussing the best dribblers in Europe.
Rooney should be nowhere near the topic.
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