Barring Bailly who played for us half dozen games, sure
Virgil Van Dijk
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yes on the ball not with his overall ability..
hence why i posted that, pay attention
You make some good points.
Opposition fans can be a better measuring stick of a players ability than bias and blinded ones. I doubt the majority of football fans around the country have united themselves in some conspiracy to dislike Smalling, fact is he's just a bog average defender and nothing more. Being the best defender in a side which finished 5th and whose keeper was player of the year is a case of being the tallest midget.
It's Southampton so it's pretty likely that we'll bid for him at some point. We'll see who else is after him when January comes but I think it's far more likely that he stays until the summer.
How much do we think Southampton will get for this one? £30 million? More?
How much do we think Southampton will get for this one? £30 million? More?
They'll probably push to get close to what Everton got for Stones.
And the vast majority of those same fans will overrate their own players with the same bias and blindness you speak of. The truth is opposition fans don't even see enough of other players week in week out to make honest and accurate overall opinions. Smalling got deserved praise last season but im sure you think he was just being overrated because it doesn't suit your opinion on him. Opposition fans mostly only watch him for 90 minutes against their teams twice a season (if he even plays those specific games) or in a few other big games out of interest.
The last part is rubbish BTW. United had the most clean sheets last season and conceded the least number of goals with Spurs. Smalling was a large part of that, whether or not De Gea got the player of the year award or not. Put a weaker set of players in front of him and De Gea was not going to get the vote, so give Blind and Smalling their props. Also, De Gea faced less shots than the majority of keepers in the league, but obviously the great saves he made makes people think he was out there like a one man defence
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Am I the only one quite happy with our CB's? I like Smalling & Bailly as our first choice, and Blind is good and Jones OK for back-up.
Not just fans' player of the season, but players' player of the season as well.
On squawka he also was one of the highest rated players and they take passing into account unlike whoscored.
Yes plenty of fans do overrate their own players, you're doing it right now with Smalling. I have no agenda vs Smalling in particular there's a number of players I think are bang average or could be easily upgraded on.
United kept the most clean sheets in large part due to the terribly negative style of football we played. We conceded the least number of goals but also scored the least of any United team in the last 20+ years.
@goin4glory one more thing. Schmeichel won player of the season in 95/96 with the best defenders in the league in front of him. Does that take away from Bruce, Pallister, Irwin and Parker?
Smalling was United's best CB last season. Thats not overrating him that's stating a fact. LVG and Mourinho have made him vice captain for a reason. Also, the fact United didn't do very well on the offensive side has nothing to do with the debate. We're talking about the defensive side of things no matter what general tactics were employed by LVG
Im with you
Smalling was United's best CB last season. Thats not overrating him that's stating a fact. LVG and Mourinho have made him vice captain for a reason. Also, the fact United didn't do very well on the offensive side has nothing to do with the debate. We're talking about the defensive side of things no matter what general tactics were employed by LVG
Im with you
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If we ever sign Van Dijk you'll see why he's no better than Smalling. Blaming it on negative football and LVG tactics is just a cop-out when he was genuinely impressive in the first half of last season, it wasn't outrageous to say then that he was on the verge of being world class had he maintained that form which he very well might regain. They're both too similar IMO to bother swapping or starting both together when we have Bailly.
Liverpool have been freshly linked with him. I think these stories are all rubbish, same as the Winston Reid stories ever since WC 2010 linking him to United and other big clubs only to end up at West Ham (and he's continually linked to bigger clubs with nothing ever coming to fruition)
No it is not a fact he was our best CB, it's your opinion. Appealing to authority argument doesn't really work when LVG was widely criticised for his "my captain shall always play" and other nonsense approaches. Mourinho's opinion of smalling this season has hardly been a glowing endorsement and I'll be surprised if he's sill first choice next season.
Of course the style of play influences the debate, Tony Pulis consistently plays some of the most 1 dimensional negative football you'll ever see but his sides regularly put up very good defensive numbers because they focus on that aspect more then attacking.
No one barring a few blinded United fans would ever consider Smalling close to world class, probably the same ones who thought we should have gave Fabio a chance when he couldn't even make the QPR team or still argue to this day Rooney is a good player. You quite clearly have no idea what you're talking about saying there's no point in playing/swapping both because VVD plays as a LCB so could easily play together.
Then everyone must have been absolutely blinded when they were saying just that because he was putting CFs in his pocket for fun the caf were gushing over his performances. He looked like a top CB then and looked the part even the season before. It has nothing to do with something that never happened like Fabio who never got over his injuries and never came good or the denial of those who still think Rooney is good and you'd have to be thick to think so as this actually happened only 12 months ago. Smalling and Bailly will be our 2 cbs so there's no need to sign Van Dijk for a big fee as he is very similar to Smalling and is going to be under even more scrutiny than he is at Soton now which will probably be when people like you will realize he's not as good as he looks for a lesser team where he can make mistakes without being slated for it. If we are signing anyone for cover we could have signed Fonte for much cheaper but we should look to promote from within IMO.
That is your opinion and i respect it. I myself would take Van Dijk over Rojo in a heartbeat. Since I've been watching most of Southampton games these last 2 years I've seen the qualities that Van Dijk possess.
Rojo only played okay these last couple of games but he still had few questionable decisions, but before that he was the utter shiiit that I'm wondering till this day how is that he got to wear UTD shirt at all.
Van Dijk has size, very good pace, ability on the ball, isn't panicking and he reads the game very good, he's better in every aspect than Rojo IMO.
I like Van Diijk, he's tall, strong, good on the ball and solid defensively. But I'm atm happy with Smalling and Bailly. The reason we were conceding quite a few goals in earlier games with them was more down to the lack of cover the CB's had when we had a 2 man midfield of Pogba and say Herrera. With the system Mourinho played against Arsenal, with Carrick playing, the CB's will get the cover they need and we won't struggle to pass the ball from the back.
He is a very good player and would be a superb signing for most clubs. He is better (and by quite a bit) than any defender Man Utd has currently imo.
I strongly disagree with this. Smalling has shown that he can play on the highest level and he's greatly underrated player whilst Bailly has shown some great talent and potential since he joined us. Van Dijk is certainly better than Rojo and Jones tho but he's nowhere near better "by quite a bit" than the former duo i mentioned, that is if he's better at all.
Yeah I like Van Dijk but that's total exaggeration.
The problem with Smalling is that he lacks a football brain. He's big, strong but a bit dumb and need someone to keep him in place and not allowing him to commit brainfarts. We also need a CB because Jones is a crock and Rojo is not very good.
Well we can agree to disagree on this I guess, Smalling is a very limited player imo and Bailly looks raw with a lot to prove (although he could be very good, it's far too soon to judge him either way). Van Dijk has been performing much better than either of them for a longer period of time. That is why I believe he is better than any of them. It's just my opinion of course.
It's pretty obvious that Bailly has the potential to be one of the best CBs around. I personally wouldn't swap him for van Dijk -- the rest of our CBs, sure.Barring Bailly who played for us half dozen games, sure
I think that was the case in the past, but I'd argue that last season he really improved dramatically when it came to stupid challenges (bar the FA cup final). Van Dijk has a fair few brainfart moments himself (arguably more than Smalling has). The real problem with a Bailly-Smalling CB partnership would be the passing from the back and it especially shows when Carrick isn't playing. So for me, I'd rather sooner get a Carrick replacement than another CB. Saying that, I want us to sell Rojo, so we would need another CB.
Nah its not just about the past. He was unwatchable against Newcastle last season and Chelsea this season. The boy is the typical EPL defender ie he's big, strong, powerful and dumb. He needs someone like Rio or Bonucci to think for him which would then allow him to do what he's best in, ie the donkey work
I haven't watched Van Dijk enough to give an opinion but we do need a leader at the back and Smalling is not one.
van Dijk is the same, with less pace but more ability on the ball. Similar concentration lapses and brainfarts.
I have a feeling we'll go for someone else.
I know swap deals never happen, but I reckon Jones would be a good fit for Southampton.
We are probably the only club in pursuit of Van Dijk that can offer a cb in return for Southampton who will be able to play for them to a satisfactory level.
We are probably the only club in pursuit of Van Dijk that can offer a cb in return for Southampton who will be able to play for them to a satisfactory level.
It would be a nice situation but unless Southampton have been living under a rock they know that Jones has only played a handful of games in the last 2 years.
Yh because they will see Jones as a solid, dependable and long term CB...
We should just persuade them with Caf logic, he statistically was the best young defender in the world after all.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/phil-jones-is-the-best-young-defender-in-europe-the-manchester-united-man-is-better-than-raphael-10226613.html
(Not that I'd really want Jones swapped at all, I personally love the guy, am quite convinced he'd be a monster of a centre half now if it weren't for his injury problems, which he unfortunately probably will never really overcome)
I agree - love the guy. He is a loveable moron and I hope he stays fit but the odds aren't in his favour. Given his relationship with Mou, Smalling swapped with Van Dijk would be much more likely and probably about evenly sized fees...
I don't know man, I actually think Mourinho quite likes Smalling, or at least I don't really see a reason why he wouldn't like him, given he was more than happy with someone like Cahill at Chelsea, and based on the fact he also praised Smalling for trying to play against Chelsea with injury (instead of the focus on his criticism after the Swansea game).
Based on what? His 'commitment' comments which were proven to be baseless since Smalling was indeed injured? Mourinho did praise him for playing through the pain barrier against Chelsea. Smalling has not been singled out like Shaw and Mkhitaryan for instance. Keep telling yourself Mourinho doesn't rate him if it makes you comfortable. He wouldn't be captain if he didnt, he wouldn't have dropped Blind for him if he didn't and paired him with Bailly once he got match fit again, he wouldn't have made him a starter he would've played Jones or Rojo instead. Once Smalling gets match fit he's going to reclaim his place in the starting 11.
I remember when that 'report' came out. That CIES football observatory is really laughable. I think they valued Sterling at 90M and had Lovren in the top 15 defenders in the world and N'Koulou from Lyon in the top 10 ahead of Hummels
A Liverpool mate of mine thinks that Smalling is brilliant. People see things differently
Only sums up how overrated Van Dijk is. I'll see him live on Thursday, will watch him closely although Sparta is not a big contest for him...
Anytime I think of him I immediately think of how Martial sat him on his arse before he scored at St. Mary's last season.
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