Stam was my pick of best (beast) defenders in the PL. Had everything including the look to make you wilt in front of him.
Virgil van Dijk | Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) look forward to a new life under Ruben Amorim. What system will we be playing? What players will impress? and how will it all go? We also say goodbye to Ruud Van Nistelrooy and review United's 3-0 win at home against Leicester City.
Stam was my pick of best (beast) defenders in the PL. Had everything including the look to make you wilt in front of him.
I thought he was pretty shit defensively today. In few situations where their keeper saved them he was nowhere near the situation, looked clueless.
But hey, goals win you games!
But hey, goals win you games!
Van Dijk's durability is a real asset, especially as compared to a few other defenders mentioned in this thread. Being able to count on a player like him to start 30+ league matches every single season is massive, both in terms of the quality you get vis-a-vis a squad player and also just in terms of the continuity you have in the spine of your side. Other than the year he lost to the ACL injury he has been ridiculous in terms of durability.
I think Vidic's top level was probably better but he started more than 25 matches only three times in his 8 full PL seasons.
I think Vidic's top level was probably better but he started more than 25 matches only three times in his 8 full PL seasons.
A lot of that was down to Fergie rotating him out for winnable PL fixtures so he could bed in the likes of Smalling, Evans and Jones. I don't recall Vidic having fitness issues at United. He picked up that one major injury in the 2011/12 season but that's about it.
What a valiant effort. He's an inspirational leader. Best defender if his generation.
He missed a big chunk of 09/10 and id say it cost us the league that year, nearly all of our losses were in games he didnt play.
An absolute leader of men captains performance. Not only was he strong at the back, not only did he guide all those youth players through extra time to maintain their nerve, but he also popped up with the winner when his team needed it most.
Rarely get captains of this grade these days but he's certainly been up there this season.
Rarely get captains of this grade these days but he's certainly been up there this season.
Not a clue what game you were watching, he was outstanding defensively.
Well he’s the only defender to win UEFA’s best player award and one of only 2 defendere to win PFA Player of the Year award in the PL era.
He will be in PFA Team of the Year for his fourth season this year, and good chance for his 4th FIFA and ESM World teams of the year. Not bad again for a player who only had one good season.
He's been good this season(not as good as he was in 2018-2019), but some of his defending at times is comical. Even in the cup final, I didn't think he was great defensively.
The media never criticize him though.
The media never criticize him though.
Most of these things are driven by lobbying and hype, there are players that figure in them that don't make much sense, in the same way that less hype-worthy players will just never figure in them.
He's been good again this season, not quite as good as some are making out - I guess it's over-compensation after a meh spell - with some great performances but some obvious mistakes too (that are never picked up on), and clearly some weaknesses to his game.
If you could insert his Liverpool performances since his debut into Utd’s you surely would?
He’s been worth his price tag. One of the very few these days.
He’s been worth his price tag. One of the very few these days.
Good for him. I'm not a huge fan, but he gets way too much stick in the Dutch press. Most of our country thinks he's an overrated blowhard and while I realise the caf thinks this as well, you lot have the excuse of being United fans.
I do get massively annoyed by the never being dribbled past stat. If you never actually try and let people just shoot it past you I suppose it's correct, but eeeeeeeh.
I do get massively annoyed by the never being dribbled past stat. If you never actually try and let people just shoot it past you I suppose it's correct, but eeeeeeeh.
He’s cartoonishly arrogant. Like how Disney have the snooty bad guy act. When that little melee Bradley triggered happened there was a Chelsea player trying to diffuse the situation and he had his hand on VVD’s arm while he chatted to him and VVD looked down his nose at his arm and stared at it as if he just couldn’t believe a peasant dared touch his royal arm.
Every small mistake he makes is picked up here and magnified to be fair. And when you're man of the match in the Champions League final for example, that's going to boost your profile.
There are lots of metrics you can rate Van Dijk on, for example on WhoScored since 09/10, he has the best average rating of any defender in the Premier League with over 200 games. Again that doesn't suit the narrative of the people claiming he only had one good season.
No one has said he's had one good season, except this straw man you're weirdly arguing with?
People have said he's had one or two top level/world class seasons, and other ones with varying levels (good to meh). So there's nothing about "suiting an argument".
As for "mistakes being taken apart" on here, that's obviously not I was referring to and is entirely irrelevant when discussing the player's standing in the game. It was very clearly meant to be about the media.
There are 143 pages in this thread, various posts about him having "one good season" or a very short peak. Just think some of the stuff in this thread would be laughable for a neutral, RAWK-ish style denial we'd be making fun of for his standing as one of the best defenders of his generation.
What, why? I'd have thought the Dutch would be proud of his the kind of player he's become.
Same reason we think Frenkie de Jong is an overrated backpass merchant, Ruud can only score, but not much else, Seedorf is overrated and Van Persie never scored enough for Holland to be considered great.
We suck.
Who is well rated then, Robben? Sneijder? The guys who won Euro 88? Probably your results haven't helped the impression of Van Dijk but also it's arguably the worst selection of players you've had in 30 years has coincided with some of his time.
I think what gets overlooked when contextualising VVD in relation to other premier league greats is that you're asked to do a lot more now as a centre-back now than you had to do even 10 years ago. It's harder being a defender in the era of high lines and building out from the back.
The counter argument to that is that the level of attackers/CFs is not as high as it was some time ago, and their job is made easier by that.
I also think this idea of "modern football" putting a lot more on defenders is overblown. Building from the back is more prevalent than it was in the past, but I'd say the increased pressure is mostly felt by middling/smaller clubs, who would've by default played another way 15/20 years ago. Top clubs have usually, even in the past, got their CBs to be involved in the build up.
I mean I obviously haven't read the whole thread religiously, but the way you are framing it is that it's an overarching assessment of him - which I strongly disagree with. I don't believe that's the tone of people's assessment of him at all, in general.
Robben and Sneijder are definitely rated (though we moan Sneijder's peak was too short, which it kinda was I suppose). The Cruijff era players ('74-'78) are all rated highly, as are the '88 team and the late '90s team (Bergkamp, Stam, Kluivert, Overmars etc).
It's probably through that Van Dijk isn't rated because we're rather poor as a team and very unexciting to watch, but that's more down to our attacking draught. More than anything we're just starved for more great attackers or at least attacking midfielders. The nation's hope's all on Xavi Simons.
Is the level that much worse than the mid-2000s? The record for goals in a season was untouched from the 1990s but has been broken twice since VVD has been in the league, while Kane has been an ever-present. More goals are being scored than ever which, in part, comes from the rule change but also stems from the expectations of higher risk, higher reward defending that asks a lot of the defenders.
Although teams played out from the back, they never played at this level of high line in an out of possession. The high-line made Terry - a unanimous top 5 best defender in league history - look totally shot the one season AVB tried playing it with Chelsea.
Now this goes both ways, it's not fair to judge a defender from the 1990s based on their ability to play in a defensive system that never existed, but the kind of scrutiny that Van Dijk gets put under, with comments about his passivity repeatedly mentioned, often doesn't take into account the totally different demands that centre-backs face in the modern game.
Yes.
The 2000s CBs had to face the likes of RvN, Ronaldo, RvP and peak Torres week in week out. VVD had to face Lukaku and Bobby No goal (in training).
He played lukaku twice. Say rather Kane, Haaland, Aguero,
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Rock of Ages.
The GOAT of PL CBs la
The GOAT of PL CBs la
He's hard la. The likes of Vidic and Ferdinand didnt have to act like a disney protagonist, they flew into tackles and ended up with a bloody face and made no big deal out of it. This guy doesnt have the balls to do that so he has to pratice the stare down method as if trying to scare kids. Just a few weeks ago Martinelli did him dirty while he looked unsure and scared.
Why leave out Haaland, Kane, Aguero, Son, Aubameyang, Vardy
Has to be said, if the trajectory of this thread itself is anything to go by - VVD is a donkey, a "worse defender than Phil Jones" > He's a good defender but he's not a top 5 defender in the league > He's a good defender but he's not the best in the league > He's a very good defender but he's not the best in the world > Ok, he's the best in the world currently but he's not as good as past legends - then we're about 50 pages from this discussion being a more serious one.
I think out of those only Aguero could be seen as a constant danger
Haaland he faced only recently when he's already old
Kane and Son played in an inconsistent team
The rest aren't world class strikers
Ronaldo wasnt a striker for United was he? At least, not in his first stint.
Even if you include them they still aren’t anywhere near as good as the 2000s lot.
Haaland is definitely better than Ruud van Nistelrooy
Doesn't suit the narrative.
Those 2000s CBs played in a far more compact, defensive low block system with much more protection and more accomplished partners.
Van Dijk defends on the half line in a hyper attacking high line system with minimum protection.
He started playing upfront in 2007/2008 I think. But he was a goal threat even as a winger.