Vinicius Junior

Ludens the Red said:
@IFC 1905 posts are quite telling because they show you exactly how black players or people in general are viewed by a significant number in countries like Italy and Spain.
Basically if you’re black, stay in your lane, know your role. Don’t show any personality, don’t be provocative, don’t celebrate goals, don’t react to anything. If you do any of the above, expect racist abuse. The other black players who happen to not do any of these things will not be racially abused, which tells you the problem is the before mentioned black players. That is basically the mentality in these nations.
That’s why you get the constant victim blaming. It’s imbedded in them that black folk are inferior and have to behave in a certain way and essentially shouldn’t step out of line. They are aware racist abuse is wrong but they don’t hold any sort of empathy for the person abused because they can’t relate to that person and they see that person as inferior. You know there’s a gigantic problem in your countries with racism when anytime a footballer gets racially abused, leading professionals in the game react with either of the following
A) He was provocative
B) he shouldn’t have reacted
C) other black players don’t get abused
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Well said. I know we are not perfect here in the UK but we can be proud to be a damn sight better in this regard. Vinicius and other fellow black players targeted for such abuse should strongly consider coming to the Premier league and I think maybe he will.
 
wangyu said:
As if there is no racism in the UK or anywhere else. Brazil had a racist president not so long ago. That said he is more than welcome, one of finest players of recent times.
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Yes, because so many posters in this thread suggested that there is no racism in the UK or anywhere else.

A player got racially abused in Spain. Are we not allowed to condemn that without talking about racism around the world?
 
wangyu said:
As if there is no racism in the UK or anywhere else. Brazil had a racist president not so long ago. That said he is more than welcome, one of finest players of recent times.
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What has this got to do with anything?
 
I personally get the impression that his desire to speak very loudly about the shit he's getting is partly because he's actually keen to stay in Spain and wants La Liga to change. I'd be surprised if he'd be all that thrilled at the 'bin it off and come to England' shouts.
 
ekestubbe said:
Throughout the years I have seen many players get abused by posters on this forum based on their looks, and nobody seems to care about it at all. Luis Suarez, Francis Jeffers, Rooney, Dirk Kuyt, Anthony Gordon, Tevez, Peter Crouch come to mind.
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Yes, because it’s absolutely the same thing. And there’s no such thing as black people being oppressed for hundreds of year because of their skin colour.
 
frostbite said:
Why is it strange? He said that he was repeatedly racially abused in Spain. We cannot do anything to change Spain. But we can use this to sign him. And this is nothing new, teams do anything they can do to get players to become unsettled and make it easier to sign them. If he is really unsettled at Real, if it is not us it will be someone else who signs him.

Real stole Ronaldo from us. Vinicius is one of the top talents today, we should do everything we can to get players like this. And there are not many of them available (see De Jong case last summer).
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I don't think we're a great candidate tbh looking at the type of racial abuse the likes of Rashford, Pogba, Martial and Young got from our own fans. He'd be a prime target here during our 1 in 2 shitshow seasons.
 
top1whoisman said:
How the feck do you know that the first reaction by everyone is being disgusted? Plenty of posters have said no such thing and their first reaction has been about signing him.
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How the feck ? what you saying that i'm naive or stupid to think that of united fan base ? That the instant reaction is V Jr treatment is not one of empathy for awful treatment he got ? Ok then. I kinda thought that reaction wouldn't need highlighting before going on to speak about him. Anyways
 
The stupid thing is, La Liga is full of players that revel in "the dark arts" - hidden fouls, trash talk, faking injuries, time wasting, etc. Almost all Spanish teams play that way and to a degree that you could almost say it is something institutional. Yet Vinicius is singled out as being provocative. It is so stupid. Even if you believe he is a cnut, it should be clear that this is the worst time to point that out.

On a sidenote, we really need to get rid of all the old white men that run institutions such as football clubs, associations and leagues. Tebas deserves to be punched in the face for that kind of shit.
 
ekestubbe said:
Throughout the years I have seen many players get abused by posters on this forum based on their looks, and nobody seems to care about it at all. Luis Suarez, Francis Jeffers, Rooney, Dirk Kuyt, Anthony Gordon, Tevez, Peter Crouch come to mind.
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What’s that got to do with race?
 
It is a genuinely awful look for the league as a whole when this type of thing not only gets tolerated but is actually endorsed by the person running it.
I would not be surprised in the least if sponsors started reconsidering their positions in light of this. Sad as it is, if the money starts drying up, that may be the motivating factor for someone to say enough is enough.
Its like travelling back in time 50 years.........
 
This thread is the epitome of to how lure our Racists and Racisms sympathizers out in open
 
glasgow 21 said:
How the feck ? what you saying that i'm naive or stupid to think that of united fan base ? That the instant reaction is V Jr treatment is not one of empathy for awful treatment he got ? Ok then. I kinda thought that reaction wouldn't need highlighting before going on to speak about him. Anyways
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Well I know what my visible first reaction would be, as a person who is disgusted by racism. To a black player getting racially abused.

It would not be the ”no need to highlight anything about racism, wonder if he’d be interested in joining United.”

To each their own as said but I’m afraid your method won’t end racism any time soon.
 
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I don't know what you can do to fix it, its a bigger problem than football that's for sure, but it speaks volumes the response from LaLiga. They're clearly not going to risk the gravy train to support him or anybody else.

Has any team ever walked off the pitch in response? I know Courtois said he would if Vinicius wanted to. That would probably be the biggest statement and actually get something done, especially a club the size of Madrid.
 
Spain has serious problems. I really dislike Vini Jr and I totally get why he is the most hated player with his constant whining, flopping and begging at referees to give yellows and reds to oppossition players but if he's so rent free inside the fans' heads that the first thing they think of is making monkey noises then I don't know what to say. Honestly, game should have been called off right at that point. In the Netherlands they'll call off games just for throwing an empty cup on the field just to make a statement and try to discipline fans. Will it work? We don't know yet, but these Spanish fans shouldn't be allowed to get away with this and they should be thrown out and banned from stadiums.

Someone above called Ancelotti a don, but I think he should have done more yesterday. It was full on chaos for 60mins and he just stood there with a blank stare. Not even calming down his players. If the game meant that little to him, might as well insist to strike IMO.
 
Nori- said:
Not bollocks at all, I've seen it first hand about 15 years ago. At a Villa game, John Carew was getting some nasty stick from a fan that got racist, police were called over and the guy was taken away.

How often do you hear racism at British football matches? Hardly ever, not because there are no racists, because they know in the UK its not as accepted as places like Spain and if the person was to act up on those thoughts, there would be consequences. 99% of the time.
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You saw it first hand 15 years ago and that equates to 99% of the time?

It's absolutey bollocks. There's a reason we barley have any players coming out as gay and it's because of the fans. If the terraces were even half as tolerant as you think they are, this wouldn't be the case.
 
11101 said:
I don't know what you can do to fix it, its a bigger problem than football that's for sure, but it speaks volumes the response from LaLiga. They're clearly not going to risk the gravy train to support him or anybody else.

Has any team ever walked off the pitch in response? I know Courtois said he would if Vinicius wanted to. That would probably be the biggest statement and actually get something done, especially a club the size of Madrid.
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I remember Kevin Prince walking off one time when something like this happened but that was a preseason friendly against some lower division Italian team. I don't remember anyone walking off in an official league game in any of the top 5-7 leagues in Europe.
 
DOTA said:
I personally get the impression that his desire to speak very loudly about the shit he's getting is partly because he's actually keen to stay in Spain and wants La Liga to change. I'd be surprised if he'd be all that thrilled at the 'bin it off and come to England' shouts.
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I'm sure he looks forward to his name being dragged through the mud when he does a bit of skill.
 
frostbite said:
Why do you think I ONLY care for this? I care for his well-being first and foremost. And I hope he will move to United because it will be better for him.
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Because this is literally your first on him whilst discussing the racial abuse he's recieving:

Ask Casemiro to contact him! We need such a player! Sell Sancho.
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WeePat said:
I remember Kevin Prince walking off one time when something like this happened but that was a preseason friendly against some lower division Italian team. I don't remember anyone walking off in an official league game in any of the top 5-7 leagues in Europe.
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I can't see how the league could just dock them the 3 points and pretend all is well if a big team did walk off. They would have to respond.
 
Ludens the Red said:
@IFC 1905 posts are quite telling because they show you exactly how black players or people in general are viewed by a significant number in countries like Italy and Spain.
Basically if you’re black, stay in your lane, know your role. Don’t show any personality, don’t be provocative, don’t celebrate goals, don’t react to anything.
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Facts. You have to be meek/humble and/or be perceived like say - Kante is, to not be racially abused. If not, the abuse is justified. Unbelievable stuff, really.
 
I know social media is different but the abuse that Saka etc got from fans after missing a penalty in the World Cup was shocking. Because people are getting away with it online it’s now got worse in ‘real’ life too. There is no comeback or consequences seen so the racist and trolls are coming out front under their rocks. This is a society issue not just confined to football and I believe it’s got worse since post-covid. Many people dont give a bollocks anymore and I hate the way society is trending
 
ekestubbe said:
Throughout the years I have seen many players get abused by posters on this forum based on their looks, and nobody seems to care about it at all. Luis Suarez, Francis Jeffers, Rooney, Dirk Kuyt, Anthony Gordon, Tevez, Peter Crouch come to mind.
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My god shut the feck up,I'm clearly talking about the colour of his skin and not the asthetics of his face. You're comparing calling Rooney Shrek to actual racism.
 
TsuWave said:
Facts. You have to be meek/humble and/or be perceived like say - Kante is, to not be racially abused. If not, the abuse is justified. Unbelievable stuff, really.
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Along the same lines of “she got raped because of the way she dressed”. No, she got raped because of some cnut who thought he could do what he wants and get away with it. There is no excuse for racism regardless.
 
golden_blunder said:
I know social media is different but the abuse that Saka etc got from fans after missing a penalty in the World Cup was shocking. Because people are getting away with it online it’s now got worse in ‘real’ life too. There is no comeback or consequences seen so the racist and trolls are coming out front under their rocks. This is a society issue not just confined to football and I believe it’s got worse since post-covid. Many people dont give a bollocks anymore and I hate the way society is trending
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This is so true. And a thing all these ”free speech warriors” don’t seem to get when they say shit like ”words can’t harm anyone”. Of course they probably do get it but just don’t care.
 
DOTA said:
I personally get the impression that his desire to speak very loudly about the shit he's getting is partly because he's actually keen to stay in Spain and wants La Liga to change. I'd be surprised if he'd be all that thrilled at the 'bin it off and come to England' shouts.
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Perhaps. Or his plans don’t come into it. He’s a straight shooter with broad shoulders, a dislike for injustice and a manager he knows will stand fiercely behind him. He’s just calling it out where he sees it.
 
Zehner said:
The stupid thing is, La Liga is full of players that revel in "the dark arts" - hidden fouls, trash talk, faking injuries, time wasting, etc. Almost all Spanish teams play that way and to a degree that you could almost say it is something institutional. Yet Vinicius is singled out as being provocative. It is so stupid. Even if you believe he is a cnut, it should be clear that this is the worst time to point that out.

On a sidenote, we really need to get rid of all the old white men that run institutions such as football clubs, associations and leagues. Tebas deserves to be punched in the face for that kind of shit.
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I wholeheartedly agree and also think, that Carlo missed an opportunity yesterday by not having Real leave the pitch.
 
ekestubbe said:
Throughout the years I have seen many players get abused by posters on this forum based on their looks, and nobody seems to care about it at all. Luis Suarez, Francis Jeffers, Rooney, Dirk Kuyt, Anthony Gordon, Tevez, Peter Crouch come to mind.
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Yikes
 
The front page of AS, one of their biggest sports dailys literally has as its main news that Vinicius is looking at a very long suspension for his violent conduct. Racism from the Valencia fans halfway down the page and doubted on.

I know the head of that paper hates Florentino Pérez and wants to bring him down as RM president, but still.

Vinicius not only must not back down, he must double up. No change is going to come unless the sponsors start pulling out from that cesspool of provincialism and Tebas forced to step down.
 
DutchSerb said:
Someone above called Ancelotti a don, but I think he should have done more yesterday. It was full on chaos for 60mins and he just stood there with a blank stare. Not even calming down his players. If the game meant that little to him, might as well insist to strike IMO.
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I kinda agree with this, if RM were properly serious about this then they'd have all walked off the pitch with Vinicus. Footballers shouldn't have to keep going in those circumstances. What choice will those cnuts at La Liga have then if the world's biggest football club literally walks off the pitch anytime there's racist abuse?
 
All I am saying is that those that think he’d be better of playing in England should think twice.
 
My opinion- The non English speaking countries still haven’t caught up because they don’t see the condemnation the receive for it (here, twitter, english news outlets etc) Not enough is done to stamp it out in Spain, Italy, Greece, Croatia. It’s absolutely rampant but racist sentiment is still the accepted majority voice because they’re threatened by African refugee’s. It wasn’t this bad until the late 90’s. There was bugger all racism in the 80’s in Italy.
 
fecking hell, never look at Facebook comments. So many dipshits saying that it's his fault for reacting to it all of the time, or folk saying "he got frustrated but it's understandable after the crowd were heckling him" as if he wasn't actually fecking racially abused.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
fecking hell, never look at Facebook comments. So many dipshits saying that it's his fault for reacting to it all of the time, or folk saying "he got frustrated but it's understandable after the crowd were heckling him" as if he wasn't actually fecking racially abused.
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We don’t have to. We’ve got those here on the Caf too.
 
DOTA said:
I'm sure you're right about Sub-Saharan Africa but a pretty large amount of the broadcast money comes from countries I think probably take anti-black racism even less seriously than Spain.
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This makes sense. Commercial incentive is usually the greatest way to encourage a change in behaviour from the top-down.
 
Anyone who's response involves something along the lines of 'but what about...' or 'he doesn't help himself' is clearly part of the problem. Sad to see this including the head of the league and some of the media. I don't watch La Liga so I'm not exactly sure of the apparent issue with Vinicius but even if he's a complete arse it's no excuse. If anything it's more understandable why he'd react to situations when the abuse of him appears to happen regularly without consequence.

The BBC article has a list of 7 incidents this season alone where he's been subjected to racist abuse. There's clearly a major problem here and until Spain as a country accepts that then it'll only get worse.
 
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