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Van Dijk has been elevated to absurd levels of praise because the level of defending other than him is generally quite poor right now. He's obviously a very good player but he doesn't need to do as much to stand out as people like Rio/Terry/Vidic did, not only in the PL but on a global level.

In the peak of Vidic/Rio/Terry etc, pretty much every club in the top sides had a very good defender. Liverpool had people like Carragher/Hypia, Chelsea with Terry/Carvalho, Arsenal with Toure/Gallas, Tottenham had people like King/Dawson etc. Now I'm not saying that the level of that selection is World Class but it's a much better spread than we see now.
 
Samid said:


Yeah let's pretend Vidic, Rio, Terry, Campbell never existed. Heck even alien head himself was a monster for years.
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To be fair VVD is right up there with them. His 18/19 is probably the second best full season a defender has had in the PL years (only Rio''s 07/08 was better). Of course he has to do it consistently over a good period of time to truly be ranked amongst the best, but unfortunately I think he'll do it.

Obviously the media have jumped all over him in a way they never have with a defender before so he has become slightly overrated.
 
Although I agree VVD is definitely in the conversation for best PL CB, I think his impact is overstated, Liverpool would still be challenging for titles without him.
 
RyRy11 said:
Although I agree VVD is definitely in the conversation for best PL CB, I think his impact is overstated, Liverpool would still be challenging for titles without him.
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We really wouldn't, specially not with Pep still around. Think City without Laporte and then multiply it by two.
 
People are deluded if you don't include him in the conversation for best ever in the Premier League. He is top 3 easy.
 
SilentWitness said:
What’s your top 3 out of interest?
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To have anyone other than rio Terry and Vidic in some order is wrong imo.

Then you have adams, kompany and Campbell probably.

If vvd keeps it up for 5 6 years he'll break the top 3 but you can put him in there yet
 
Rio was so great he had a run of 17 years without fouling anyone.

Vidić wanted to go to war.

Bruce wrote a novel.

Staam was Dutch.
 
In the peak of their careers, Terry and Carvalho made the best central defensive pair I have ever seen in the Premier League. This was back in those days when Mourinho mattered. And with a United bias, I’d say Ferdinand and Vidic were the next best thing. Terry was a dick, but he did it match after match for nearly a decade in the Premier League. And that is not even mentioning a few really good ones Arsenal have had.
Kompany must be on weed or something.
 
I don't think it's an outlandish thing to say. He is not disrespecting anyone, VVD is a damn good player.
 
Carvalho is the obvious comparison to where VVD is now. Performing great things in a team sweeping up trophies over a short period, but yet to demonstrate the prolonged excellence of a Terry, Vidic or Rio.
 
SilentWitness said:
Van Dijk has been elevated to absurd levels of praise because the level of defending other than him is generally quite poor right now. He's obviously a very good player but he doesn't need to do as much to stand out as people like Rio/Terry/Vidic did, not only in the PL but on a global level.

In the peak of Vidic/Rio/Terry etc, pretty much every club in the top sides had a very good defender. Liverpool had people like Carragher/Hypia, Chelsea with Terry/Carvalho, Arsenal with Toure/Gallas, Tottenham had people like King/Dawson etc. Now I'm not saying that the level of that selection is World Class but it's a much better spread than we see now.
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It's the Stevie G thing again. His rep was hyped by being so much better than everyone in his team. If he'd been in the United or Chelsea of that era would he have stood out as much? We'll never know, but I reckon not.
 
arnie_ni said:
To have anyone other than rio Terry and Vidic in some order is wrong imo.

Then you have adams, kompany and Campbell probably.

If vvd keeps it up for 5 6 years he'll break the top 3 but you can put him in there yet
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A lot of us would have Stam ahead of Vidic.
Every bit as tough, but faster and better on the ball.

A big part of our treble success.

Also intrigued where you'd have Pallister - premier league team of the year 7 times for a huge reason.
 
arnie_ni said:
After 2 years?
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He's played longer than that. Liverpool didn't buy him for £75 million from Southampton because he played poorly there.

I don't know why these comments need to be made. Wait for him to retire to see the broad perspective.
 
MadDogg said:
Terry maintained his level near the top for longer than anyone else, but Rio, Vidic, Stam and now VVD all hit a higher peak when they were at their best. So it depends on how you rate peak or year-after-year consistency.
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To be considered one of the best of premier league history, you have to look across multiple years, 4 5 6, i think.
 
Sandikan said:
A lot of us would have Stam ahead of Vidic.
Every bit as tough, but faster and better on the ball.

A big part of our treble success.

Also intrigued where you'd have Pallister - premier league team of the year 7 times for a huge reason.
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My issue with stam is similar to vvd, longevity or lack therof
 
Snow said:
He's played longer than that. Liverpool didn't buy him for £75 million from Southampton because he played poorly there.

I don't know why these comments need to be made. Wait for him to retire to see the broad perspective.
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He wasn't at that level at Southampton though, thats like arguing Maguire is one of the best based on his fee.

Alot of the fee for both those players wss English to English club and potential.

Your last paragraph is my whole point. Its far to early to be discussing this about VVD, but we are because someone said he's one of the best all time in the league.
 
He obviously top drawer but best ever ask me in 5 years if he keeps up this level.

He's made a huge difference to Liverpool and is the best out there at the moment but I'm getting really sick of all this best ever nonsense which started with city a couple of years ago look at them now and Liverpool the best team ever who's to say next season (if it ever starts) they have serious injury problems(their certainly due a few) and end up 4th would they still be the greatest I think not.

Its all premature truly great teams do it time and again we had a couple of those but hardly gets mentioned anymore.

The media in this country are a joke.

Ps I'd even say Kompany at his best was as good as vvd.
 
SilentWitness said:
Van Dijk has been elevated to absurd levels of praise because the level of defending other than him is generally quite poor right now. He's obviously a very good player but he doesn't need to do as much to stand out as people like Rio/Terry/Vidic did, not only in the PL but on a global level.

In the peak of Vidic/Rio/Terry etc, pretty much every club in the top sides had a very good defender. Liverpool had people like Carragher/Hypia, Chelsea with Terry/Carvalho, Arsenal with Toure/Gallas, Tottenham had people like King/Dawson etc. Now I'm not saying that the level of that selection is World Class but it's a much better spread than we see now.
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Yeah I agree the level of defenders currently is worse.

I think it’s a much worse standard.
 
arnie_ni said:
He wasn't at that level at Southampton though, thats like arguing Maguire is one of the best based on his fee.

Alot of the fee for both those players wss English to English club and potential.

Your last paragraph is my whole point. Its far to early to be discussing this about VVD, but we are because someone said he's one of the best all time in the league.
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Maguire was garnerning interest at Hull of all teams and when Leicester bought him many saw it as a sure thing and wondered why bigger clubs weren't after him. Because bigger clubs didn't buy him other people make up reasons "well maybe he just isn't that good", basically talking out of their ass. Everyone knew that van Dijk was a top player at Southampton. I remember talk about him on the caf from when he was at Celtic and when Southampton bought him you heard the same things said about him as a I mentioned "maybe he's just not that good" and "it's the Scottish league, of course he looks good there" etc. Liverpool simply really needed a top CB like him which is why they paid a lot of money for him but don't think for a second that we wouldn't have been in for him or Arsenal or Chelsea if the fees were more like 10 years ago.
 
arnie_ni said:
My issue with stam is similar to vvd, longevity or lack therof
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Fair enough.

On a run today I had a fantasy football best defenders podcast on, and it was interesting how Vidic didn't get into their top scoring players as he only had a couple of high scorers. Just a game, but found that interesting.
Terry, Lescott (!) and Baines came out their top 3 on having at least 3 top scoring seasons above 160 points.
 
RUCK4444 said:
Yeah I agree the level of defenders currently is worse.

I think it’s a much worse standard.
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There's two things going on - shocking standard of centre backs these days versus the recent past, and also recency bias.

People love to suggest the current is the best. They did it with Man City recently, and now Liverpool.
More than taking a much more balanced view and looking at what did that team win and over how long.
 
We'll know how good VVD was in 5 years time. Rio, Vidic, Stam, Terry, Tony Adams, Campbell, did it for years
 
MadDogg said:
To be fair VVD is right up there with them. His 18/19 is probably the second best full season a defender has had in the PL years (only Rio''s 07/08 was better). Of course he has to do it consistently over a good period of time to truly be ranked amongst the best, but unfortunately I think he'll do it.

Obviously the media have jumped all over him in a way they never have with a defender before so he has become slightly overrated.
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Pallister 1995
Stam 1999
Rio 2008
Vidic 2009

That's just our own players and not counting the likes of Adams in 1998, Campbell in 2003, Terry and Carvalho around 2005, and Kompany himself around 2012.
 
Deffo recency bias, and the fact that you would be hard pushed to name 5 decent CBs in the league. Compare it to times when you had Rio, Kompany, Vidic, Terry all playing at the same time, and you could have a good argument to say who was the best, the CBs now in the PL are no match to that generation.

You have a lot of other decent CBs.

VVD is clearly the best CB in the PL, because there’s no competition, but never would I have him above Terry, Rio, Vidic, Kompany. He’s in the argument with Carvalho, Stam, Campbell, Adams - and I’m sure many others about whether he would be top 10.
 
Sandikan said:
There's two things going on - shocking standard of centre backs these days versus the recent past, and also recency bias.

People love to suggest the current is the best. They did it with Man City recently, and now Liverpool.
More than taking a much more balanced view and looking at what did that team win and over how long.
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Yeah I agree with that also. In fairness I do think VVD is good, definitely the best in the league but that’s a league where there are very few that stack up to past players.

The vast majority of the defenders at the top five clubs wouldn’t get a kick in the era of Rio, Vidic, Terry era. They would be rightly warming the bench.
 
RUCK4444 said:
Yeah I agree with that also. In fairness I do think VVD is good, definitely the best in the league but that’s a league where there are very few that stack up to past players.

The vast majority of the defenders at the top five clubs wouldn’t get a kick in the era of Rio, Vidic, Terry era. They would be rightly warming the bench.
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It'd be quite a struggle to name the best 5 centre backs in the league these days, whereas not long ago the top teams had two a piece.

United have a guy that I reckon i'd have a chance of outpacing and outstrengthing.
 
It's the same talking point at the other end of the pitch where because the out and out striker has pretty much gone by, you'll overrate any current player after a few years of high level play. VVD is a top CB during a time where there is not a wealth to choose from. But then looking at historical PL center backs who have had twice or three times as many top years as VVD is a complete rewrite and disrespect.
 
Remember when there were claims about how nobody ever dribbled past VVD?
Yeah, it's just like this one. Hypes everywhere.
 
SilentWitness said:
Van Dijk has been elevated to absurd levels of praise because the level of defending other than him is generally quite poor right now. He's obviously a very good player but he doesn't need to do as much to stand out as people like Rio/Terry/Vidic did, not only in the PL but on a global level.

In the peak of Vidic/Rio/Terry etc, pretty much every club in the top sides had a very good defender. Liverpool had people like Carragher/Hypia, Chelsea with Terry/Carvalho, Arsenal with Toure/Gallas, Tottenham had people like King/Dawson etc. Now I'm not saying that the level of that selection is World Class but it's a much better spread than we see now.
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:p was pretty average
 
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