Braid
Gaming Video Games With Good Storytelling
- Thread starter dumbo
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The Last of Us (the first one) - I absolutely loved this game and it's story.
Red Dead Redemption 2 - another masterpiece of video game storytelling
Red Dead Redemption 2 - another masterpiece of video game storytelling
Well, it is a shooter. With massive stealth elements, and some RPG elements but still mainly a shooter.
Don't get me wrong, I love Deus Ex. One of my all-time favorite games, and have praised it many times here.
I just played Firewatch and thought it was excellent. Playable in one sitting. A really neat intro and the relationship that is built during the game is exemplary. Naturalistic, never forced and the unintentionally lame dialogue was almost non-existent. Great vibe and atmosphere. My sense of direction is as bad in-game as it is in real life.
Pillars of Eternity
Divinity: Original Sin I+II
Divinity: Original Sin I+II
Good call. A truly terrifying and well acted villain with a good rationale = always a winner
Oh yeah was just thinking about Regis in blood and wine - that voice acting and (spoiler) oration of his on your Choices - wow. Genuinely amazing ending.
Also a great call
I'm going to add to the list:
"The Outer Wilds". Don't read about it just play it if you like a good story.
I'd mention Half-Life & Portal . I like how in both games you have to learn the actual state of the world indirectly, piecing together bits and pieces of information. This is especially evident in Portal where , at the very beginning you wouldn't even recognise that you are in the HL universe at all.
Disco Elysium is a recent example that springs to mind. Not surprising seeing as it was actually written by a novelist.
Most of the Yakuza games have awesome stories. You do need a slight tolerance for Japanese melodrama (people yelling eachother's name loudly in frustration).
I was feeling some sympathy for the argument about fictional replacements, up until the weak attempt to differentiate Dickens from a video game. The failure to do so makes the whole thing feel prejudicial and a bit cowardly. There are things I get from reading a book about character interactions, relationships and human insight that gaming has never been able to replicate. I would even say that of all the arts, gaming is one of the worst at simulating human nourishment and the triggering of the human interaction reward circuitry. If I wanted to experience fictional emotions and relationships and the accompanying dopamine kick then I would turn to literature and the cinema. The affect of the too much time I spend in fictional worlds is something that I've thought about quite a bit.
The "accomplishing something" point, I think, is real, although I would much rather people "defeat and pwn someone" in a virtual world than in real life. But gaming can replace the doing of something and the reward feeling of having done it. Which is a problem for anyone that ties their self worth to action and achievement, as most do - particularly in the west. Which is fortunate for me because I'm much more aligned with the ascetic scepticism of salvation through doing and triumph. I favour more of a Laozi "effortless action" approach.
On the bit about tech-alienation, I would say that just because technology is out to kill us, that doesn't mean that you're not also being paranoid.
As a political argument there is something there but I don't believe gaming to be a unique ontological threat.
Actually I think all Yakuza games post Yakuza kiwami 2 have pretty poor stories. I played religiously through all them after I played Yakuza 0, but my honest opinon is that you're not missing out if you stop at Kiwami 2. All opinon of course.
Yeah I should say I posted it more out of interest rather than as an argument I agree with.Ultimately his issue is with nerd/fan culture above all else, a gamer is really no different than a Star Wars/Marvel fan or a football supporter.
The argument that gaming produces the gamer failed son can and was used in regards to football hooliganism and right now in Disney world people are risking their lives in the name of fan service. Gaming isn't unique in this aspect.
Where I think he does have a point is videogames as the worst of these fan cultures but to me this then brings up the question is this due to the very core fundamentals of gaming(it being an active form of media and not a passive one)or the profit incentive which drives it.
The guy goes into more detail on theory in this "debate" (Its really just a very funny comedy show) here -
Oh no bring on the robot arms and brain hacking!
It is interesting and there is more than a kernel of truth to the idea that gaming has the potential to change us in ways that might be considered harmful. I do think that the initial point that is driving their discussion - that current gaming is replacing meaningful real world interaction, and that it is somehow more pernicious than traditional art forms - is flawed. It's also an on the hoof podcast so I wouldn't consider it their final word on the issue, and arguments can be amended. Also with the advances in technology and game design, it could potentially become an issue in the future. Then again I am a bit of a tech-sceptic too.
On the point about it being the worst fan culture, again I'm yet to be convinced. It's easy to point to examples of misbehaviour but to me you have to somehow demonstrate that the problem lies specifically with the medium, as apposed to it being a result of accompanying behaviours, such as people being cooped up in their rooms for too long, interacting largely online with others. You would have to show me what gaming is doing that Twitter and other online interactions that are not games, are not.
I agree that reduced human interactions is fecking us up, though the long slow death of community precedes popular gaming. I think Capitalism is either at the root of these problems, or has found itself a very close partner with them. Gaming might be an auxiliary affect.
I'll check the other video, thanks.
Agree with Grim Fandago (mentioned earlier). More generally, adventure games are well-placed to feature good story-telling, since they don't have to worry about the game play the same way as more action-focused games. I also liked Star Control 2 for its story-telling actually. That one can be compared to a good fantasy book, where there is a whole universe with its own history, part of which you can uncover (lots of side quests to help with that), but part of which is only just ever referred to without being revealed completely. A little like Lord of the Rings, if you would read it without reading The Hobbit and The Silmarillion. Not quite the highest art in literature, I know, but good story-telling for sure.
Also, I am playing Red Dead Redemption 2 now, and I think the narrative is quite strong - also in how it pulls in the historical context and manages to situate the main characters life and struggles in it. But then I have a strong historical focus (I love that aspect of The Remains of the Day, for example), I am anyway only halfway through the game.
I wonder, though, whence the focus on narrative. (@dumbo) My brother is a game developer and very interested in games as art. He would not consider the narrative in that, though; for him, the art is all about the visuals, sound, and the interaction between the game and the player. I'm not arguing that narrative cannot be part of the art of a video game, but the OP's first sentence mentions artistic merit, to then focus on narrative exclusively. Is that on purpose, or is that just the artistic angle you chose to focus on?
Also, I am playing Red Dead Redemption 2 now, and I think the narrative is quite strong - also in how it pulls in the historical context and manages to situate the main characters life and struggles in it. But then I have a strong historical focus (I love that aspect of The Remains of the Day, for example), I am anyway only halfway through the game.
I wonder, though, whence the focus on narrative. (@dumbo) My brother is a game developer and very interested in games as art. He would not consider the narrative in that, though; for him, the art is all about the visuals, sound, and the interaction between the game and the player. I'm not arguing that narrative cannot be part of the art of a video game, but the OP's first sentence mentions artistic merit, to then focus on narrative exclusively. Is that on purpose, or is that just the artistic angle you chose to focus on?
I agree on both points. I think this is case of correlation <> causation. I would argue that current, new levels of instant connectivity and social media provide the current that's pushing games to their popularity, changing fan culture, and redefining communities (although I would 'credit' socio-economic circumstances for the latter as well); but I would not posit a causal relation between those three points.
I dunno, I guess I see an artist as someone that is trying to convey a concept or idea, and in this case a story. A display of technique or a design doesn't necessarily fall under my definition of art. And it's not that I think technique and design are less important or valuable than artistic expression (often they're not), I just find it easier to define it that way. Visuals, sound, interaction can be expressed as art, and they can not be. Story is the big picture, everything else narrative, plot, characters are the stuffing.
I’m not that serious of a gamer but I’ve always enjoyed Fable. Loved the cut away scenes to like fairytale book where a narrator reads out your journey. The overall story was good as well. Fable2 also good.3 was Meh.
Mass effect 1 and 2 and of course The Witcher. RDR2 probably deserves a mention as well.
Mass effect 1 and 2 and of course The Witcher. RDR2 probably deserves a mention as well.
But then, how do you consider paintings? Or music?
To me, what's interesting artistically about video games, is they include all the aspects of film (story, visual, sound), but add an interactive element to it, both in terms of single-player and multi-player. That adds a whole new dimension which, to me, can be part of the art. Ignoring those dimensions and focusing singularly on story seems to me unnecessarily restrictive. I do agree that narrative is art, though, and it's obviously one element that one can focus on; I just could not see it as the element. For me, for example, I would classify a game like World of Goo as art (or relatively artistically minded, anyway), but it has no narrative to speak of.
So I've just seen that Ghost of Tsushima has a "Kurosawa mode". Only video games can have both the arrogance and stupidity to boil down one of the greatest directors of all time into an Instagram filter.
They've been very open about Kurosawa being their main inspiration for pretty much everything in the game, this mode is meant as a tribute. They even reached out to the Kurosawa estate to get their blessing. You call it arrogant, I call it respectful.
Assume they're going more for his black and white films rather than, say, color films like Ran or Kagemusha ?
I mean the vibrancy of Ran is so, so different to his earlier films. Those reds pop like a Matisse.
Broken Sword : Shadow of the Templars
Broken Sword II: The Smoking Mirror
Two absolute classics play great on mobile to.
Broken Sword II: The Smoking Mirror
Two absolute classics play great on mobile to.
You don't think it was lame? The characters are supposed to be 40+ but act like they're in their mid-twenties. I saw it as a hugely flawed aspect and don't think it was half as convincing as well as similar games of its ilk - Gone Home, Oxenfree, Night in the Woods, etc.
Everybody's Gone to the Rapture was so much better at handling older characters going through personal crisis.
But I'm pedantic as it looked and played nice. I was looking forward to their next game but they got devolved into helping Valve make Half Life: Alyx.
If some guys tell you they are massive fans of you're great grandfather work and they've spent countless hours recreating a tribute to him then you have to a bit of an arsehole to say no. But more importantly I'm guessing you can't just plaster Kurosawa name on to a video game with permission from the estate.
It's no more respectful than a Seven Samurai Funkco Pop.
But it's just a black and white filter, that's it! Was their main take away from Kurosawa really he is the Japanese black and white film dude ? When I think of a film like Throne Of Blood, it's being a black and white film is pretty low on the list of things that stand out. It's such a shallow reading and understanding of one of the worlds greatest artists.
To somewhat keeps this post on topic. It seems whenever video games try to say anything artistic and meaningful, the thing that lets them down is the video game part. Moving a passive form of media(Kurosawa films)into an active one(Ghost Of Tsushima)is only possible if the former is so diluted and striped of any context that it results into Instagram filter.
What a load of pretentious nonsense. It's just a harmless mode for those who like it, I don't get why you're so fixated on it. No one is claiming that they're somehow trying to capturing the essence of Kurosawa's works with it, only you seem to be. Most people can see it for what it is, a bonus mode, without trying to draw some grand conclusions about the developer's lack of understanding or video games' failure to say something artistic or meaningful. Pretty ironic, considering you started this whole argument by accusing them of arrogance.
kl video games are stupid glad we agree.
The whole game could be seen as a nod to great samurai films by Kurosawa, including the regular color graphics. Many kids may see that name for the first time and want to explore his films. It is an odd thing to take issue with.
The real problem is the degraded sound quality in that mode which I’ve heard there is no option for defeating.
The reason I posted in here and not in other ghost of tsushima thread was because I was interested in how games transfer one media into another, potentially the effects of gaming and can video games produce any sort of meaningful art or are they by design always just mindless entertainment
If someone is enjoying the game as a pretty hack and slash then cool but like there's a non "pretentious" thread for giving a shit about what the x button does it or how the map works.
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The Cat Lady
What Remains of Edith Finch was neat. A brief, simple story told with a wide range of techniques, in a variety of different styles. That it plods along, is linear and it holds your hand is not a problem if I'm being immersed in a fresh experience. A bit of motion sickness though, so toggle the settings.
Flashback was great. Very atmospheric.... at times it had vibes of The Running Man and Total Recall. Surely it's time for a quality remake? But again with that 80s futurism.
Surprising shout:
The campaigns in Age of Empires 2
The campaigns in Age of Empires 2
Warcraft 3
Thomas was alone
Love the look of The Last Night.
I really enjoyed Fade to Black too, the follow on from Flashback.
I remember how hard that was on release. Didn't help it ran like crap on my first ever PC and was hard to see the lasers
I might try to get it working again and take it on!
I remember playing Fade to Black on PS1, I always got stuck at a part early on in the game and could never get past it.
For some reason I never played it. Did it finish the saga?
I gave up on Shadow of the Beast after an hour. I was rubbish at it.