I will reserve my judgement for now. Still wondering what he is going to offer us that blind doesnt give us at CB or LB ( RB in this case).
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Not what the discussion revolved around, but feel free to jump in. The discussion was weather TFM had better passing ability than our new Swede. Thoughts?
Just want to add that it’s thinking like the bolded part that’s holding us back from evolving as a team. Thankfully Mourinho seemed to be looking at exactly those things you so easily dissmiss in a CB when Lindelöf was brought in. I like to see Lindelöf trying to keep the ball in the team most of the time, inviting to one-two’s and generally trying to find team mates before going for the easy kick up field, or out of touch. If he’s good enough, or can become good enough to be that ball playing CB for us obviously remains to be seen.
Edit: I don’t buy in to the binary thinking that a club such as ours should have to make a choice between one or the other. We should aim to buy (or preferably develope) CBs who can do it all on a relatively high level as befitting Manchester United.
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Victor reminds me of another player wich Mourinho had at Inter: Cristi Chivu. An CB turned into a FB, in his case LB, with good passing, good fk and a total lack of pace. I hope it works out for Lindelof the same way it worked out for Chivu.
I think Lindelof is indeed better.
The problem is Mourinho doesn't really do the whole build up slowly from the back type of play. That's Pep's thing. Mourinho's modus operandi, as we all know, is to soak up the pressure and hit on the counter. To be able to soak up pressure, you need the traditional English centre back. John Terry, ricky Carvalho, Ivanovic, Cahill - these are Mourinho type defenders.
And I've absolutely no hesitation about getting the best defenders like Rio who can do it all. Unfortunately I don't think Lindelof falls in that category. So, we need to manage his strengths and weaknesses accordingly.
Fair enough, and like I said, it remains to be seen wrt Lindelöf.
The point about building up play slowly from the back is somewhat of a paradox, because whenever Smalling, Rojo and, to a lesser extent, Jones have the ball and are tasked with starting play we are slower and more laboured than most. Better handling of the ball and passing ability, could be a remedy for this.
The bolded sentence is also very interesting, and begs the question; do you think we are good at soaking pressure and counter-attacking? In most games we have the most possesion, and face two banks of four parked from the oppos 18 yard box and out.
I feel that's only true when we play the lesser sides. Midtable and above, it seems to me we prefer to be 'defensively organised' and focused.
I'm gonna stick my neck out here and say i've never noticed an issue with Rojo, Jones, Blind or Bailly with their ball passing skills. The only one who isn't as comfortable as the others is Smalling, and even then I don't think he's that bad. Smalling keeps it more simple than the rest, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
I wouldn't be surprised to eventually see him as a DM.
None of those are bad, it’s true. The issue is more that none of them are good, certainly far from great at it. Smalling the obvious weak link when takling about passing and technique, and you’re being very generous towards Smalling here, I have to say.
It’s just that imo it all falls into the pattern of why we struggle to keep control even against mid table sides. You say we prefer to sit back against those around that level, I say with the current personnel we have no choice.
It wasn't pretty at times (if it'd been one of the the young kids with that performance, we'd be saying "he just needs time to settle in, that's all"), but he certainly threw himself into it fully -- no hesitation.
I was at the City game in December and it's clear as day that if you pressure Rojo the man can't pass.
It's always been his downfall that he's got a bit of the old wooden leg. He just hoofs it every single time.
What Lindelöf brings is a composure and the ability to strike these passes at long and short distances. Personally, I can't wait until Bailly returns to the fold as I really would like to pair him up with Lindelöf in the long run.
We will know for sure in Russia how good he really is or how bad he is.
I think the course of the season is a better indication than 3 tournament games. Don't think it would change much for me either way. Based on Euros Martial is a nothing player.
If we sign Sanchez as a right wing forward, I think we'd need another playmaker on that side of the pitch and a rightback who supports the attack as opposed to being the attack. For me, Lindelof should become our first choice instead of Valencia.
It's fine to only have direct players in the final third, but that would necessitate there being reliable passers in the team elsewhere. Lindelof might not be the best defender, but he's great in possession and has a brilliant range of passing. I'm a big fan of Valencia, but with a front 3 of Martial/Lukaku/Sanchez, he wouldn't give us the best balance in terms of transistions.
It's fine to only have direct players in the final third, but that would necessitate there being reliable passers in the team elsewhere. Lindelof might not be the best defender, but he's great in possession and has a brilliant range of passing. I'm a big fan of Valencia, but with a front 3 of Martial/Lukaku/Sanchez, he wouldn't give us the best balance in terms of transistions.
Lindelof is the most comfortable with the ball followed by Bailly, Rojo, Jones and then Smalling. Blind I don't consider him a CB.
Tournaments are poor indicators of a player's level. In the last World Cup, Ron Vlaar, Martins Indi etc. looked like world beaters in their teams. If Sweden play very defensive & physical then naturally Lindelöf will look great. It's what he brings to United that should matter
Lindelöf is not close to Valencia as a right back.
If Man Utd sign Sanchez then he should primarily compete with Lukaku, Martial, Lingard and Rashford. He's not a lefty, so why play him on the right flank?
Never understood the desire in trying to convert central defenders who are comfortable with the ball into other positions. They are central defenders, not defensive midfielders, not full backs.
Not even on the bench today...
Still think it would have been better to have Tuanzebe higher in the squad instead of him
Being good in one system doesn't guarantee being good in another. The only place he can prove himself for us is playing for us.
Should have included him in a swap transfer somehow.
Such a baffling transfer to me, I'd love to know who's idea it was to go after him and what the reasoning behind it was. He's not better than our senior CBs and he's not a bigger talent compared to TFM and Tuanzebe who are also very capable ball-playing and versatile players.
Think it was because of all our injuries in our defence... Was no guarantee Rojo would return the same player after his injury last season, Jones injured every other monday, which pretty much left us with Bailly and Smalling as the only "real" CB's in the squad.
The original idea might have been to play with three at the back, in which case it might have made sense. But I agree it's a huge waste of money.
(Off-topic but Mourinho have mostly made bad deals. Matic is the only transfer that have played most matches and done it well. Pogba and Bailly have performed well but missed a lot of matches.
Mkhitaryan, Lindelöf in the freeze box. Ibrahimovic good in the first season but got injured, shouldn't have gotten a contract extension.)
Pogba played 51 games for us last season. That is a high total.
If we need a CB to come in we have Rojo who can deal with Burnley’s aerial threat. Lindelof is young and is a good signing for the future, no need to overreact.
So now Jose gets blamed for players getting injured?
Bailly is our best defender. Ibrahimovic was a great signing and he was free! As mentioned above Pogba played 51 games last year and is probably our best player. Mkhitaryan is about to be exchanged for world class Sanchez. Lindelof needed time to settle but he has improved recently and time and age is on his side.
Stop being unnecessary negative.
Things will work out eventually, but some of his transfers have been wasteful.So now Jose gets blamed for players getting injured?
Bailly is our best defender. Ibrahimovic was a great signing and he was free! As mentioned above Pogba played 51 games last year and is probably our best player. Mkhitaryan is about to be exchanged for world class Sanchez.
Stop being unnecessary negative.
But your examples of him wasting money were bad ones?
£30 million for a young talented ball playing CB is not a waste of money. It also shows planning for the future.
I assume people who keep complaining about this signing weren't the ones moaning about our defense injury crisis before ?
We started the season with Rojo out for a ACL injury. During the season we got multiple injuries to Jones and Bailly. It was a no brainer for us to sign a first team defender. We have seen for our eyes for years now how we struggle to put a main defensive pairing because of injuries but people complain about us strengthening our defense to avoid this crisis that happens almost every season, and instead we should depend on a youngster ?
We started the season with Rojo out for a ACL injury. During the season we got multiple injuries to Jones and Bailly. It was a no brainer for us to sign a first team defender. We have seen for our eyes for years now how we struggle to put a main defensive pairing because of injuries but people complain about us strengthening our defense to avoid this crisis that happens almost every season, and instead we should depend on a youngster ?
That's a weird argument.
What future though? We already had 4 first team CBs before we signed Victor. The oldest of which is only turning 29 this year, with another two CBs who looked ready for more first team opportunities in Tuanzebe and TFM.
The question marks surrounding our cm, right wing and both full back positions make it all the more frustrating.
I seriously can't understand the reasoning for buying a 300 million player and not even putting him on the bench. It's not as if he has been given a good run of matches to acclimatise himself or prove himself either?
Anybody still think he is our future CB?
Given that Bailly will return i don't see how. But we need a proper Valencia cover. Somebody who can attack, cross like any proper full back nowadays.
Given that Bailly will return i don't see how. But we need a proper Valencia cover. Somebody who can attack, cross like any proper full back nowadays.
When we play 3 at the back. Jones and Smalling never stay fit. TFM might not even play at CB.
30 mil. Maybe he's injured or has a knock. He's been steadily improving, so I think he has a bright future at the club.
In a back three he certainly qualifies, we shouldn't need 7 CBs to utilize a back three... We've had Bailly and Rojo gone for a big chunk of the season and still Lindelöf has been completly redundant.
Not really. Mourinho have zero faith in him. Remember that you have other issues to consider as well. He's not going to keep his spot in the Swedish XI when he's not playing more than 1 game per month. Probably lost his WC spot by joining Man Utd, although it wasn't likely back when he joined that Sweden would qualify.
My guess is that he'll leave in the summer on a loan with a buyout clause of around 20 million.
Wasn't he supposed to be "a starter by next season" a couple of pages back?
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