Cheers for the quality response! @In Rainbows -- you as well!As @In Rainbows pointed out, Jack Fletcher and James Garner are different types of midfielders in terms of profile. The latter was a “pivot” and the former comes across as a natural “interior” who flanks or operates ahead of the pivot...a graceful lock-picker and intuitive offensive passer (who consistently filters in final balls) with quicker feet in congested space, superior dribbling ability, and commendable ball control to boot — aesthetically, very much along the lines of a young Kai Havertz at Leverkusen or indeed Cole Palmer (who progressed through the same system as Jack, no doubt affected by the simplistic excellence of De Bruyne (and Silva, whose influence as playmaker-in-chief loomed large at the club, before him)). As regards industry and grafting nous out of possession, he puts himself about for the most part, but is not a peak Darren Fletcher-esque workhorse by any means (and we shouldn't expect him to be that type of player, at least for the time being; gradual improvement in that department should come with experience and physical maturation).
Utd bid to sign 16 year old twins from Man City - Darren Fletcher’s sons!
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That compilation didn't even show the best angle of his pass
Reminds me of this Pogba pass in the youth cup finals.
I love the co-commentator here, simply saying "Wow." And it fits perfectly!
For all his technical skills it’s his composure and awareness that have impressed me the most. Never rushed or hurried and clever movement opens up space he vacated. Being on the bigger pitch suited him.
Seems to be another one that obviously won't spend much times at youth levels. He looks mature and physically and mentally ready enough for the U21s already comfortably.
Luckily for him we seem to be giving opportunities when their earned. Exciting times for sure I just hope there’s some movement in this window to keep players progressing.
Jack Fletcher trained with the first team again. Granted a lot of youngsters were involved.
Really good to hear. Would love more of our youth players to break into the first team in the near future.
Bet his U21s debut will come very soon. And I would bet for a first team debut next season.
With our youth players showing to be often times more capable than seniors, it could be something that could save Eric's job.
United's FAYC winning sides have typically produced a handful of first team squad level players e.g. Class of 92; 2010/2011 - Pogba, Lingard, Keane x 2, Ravel, Sam Johnstone; 2022 - Garnacho, Bennett, Forson and Mainoo so far but the likes of Vitek, Gore, Hansen-Aroen, and maybe Oyedele being within grasp in next couple of years.
If this is the best of all those teams, as some people are suggesting, then its conceivable that quite a few will reach the highest level.
Just to add to this point, something like 30% of each team go on to make an impact on the first team.
Well that u18 side had 42 points in 26 games where as this side has 30 points from 10 games thus far. And this current u18 side's best talents (Lacey, Fletcher, Fitzgerald, Amass) are all doing well as 16 year olds, which is a younger age on average than the 2022 FA youth cup winning side that pretty much had Mainoo at that age. The 2022 side was not as talented as the 2019 fa youth cup side (Gomes, Greenwood, Garner, Laird), despite achieving the cup. That 2019 side underperformed against the lesser sides that knocked them out, but a combination of that was due to players like Greenwood starting to get in the first team.
The players people are excited about are the 16 year old core of players, with maybe Ibragimov (15yo) joining that now that he's back from injury.
I've never really found the 2022 side all that talented apart from Mainoo. Garnacho did well and it's hard to argue with what he's done at such a young age for the first team. So Garnacho is added to that. On the other hand, I've never found Hansen Aroen all that great as he hasn't been able to harness his technical skill into anything meaningful despite the hype from people on social media. But then again, maybe he will follow the path of someone like Iqbal. Not everyone develops at the same rate.
Edit: Forgot about Dan Gore
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Imagine we have two fletchers and Mainoo in our future midifeld
Back 4
Mainoo
Fletcher Fletcher
Front 3
Exciting times ahead Mainoo
Fletcher Fletcher
Front 3
Good stat and it could well be that a couple of the current crop go on to be first team squad players, but I still maintain the leap is huge and it will take some time for any of the current crop. I also don’t think this years group will be strong enough to win the FAYC maybe next year as I think the younger lads are the more talented in the group and will need another year. Draw been kind so far though in the youth cup so the deeper we go the belief will grow
You know I was thinking about ages of the FA youth cup sides, and figured I would do the same for biggest talents of our youth cup winning sides to compare.
(Years old.Months)
1992: Beckham (16.11), Neville (17.2), Butt (17.3), Giggs (18.5), Savage (17.6)
2011: Pogba (18.2), Ravel (18.3), Thorpe (18.4), Keane twins (18.4), Lingard (18.5)
2022: Mainoo (17.1), Garnacho (17.10), Gore (17.8), Mcneill (18.8), Bennet (18.7), HansenAroen (17.9), Mather (17.9), Oyedele (17.6), Jurado (18.1)
Age during FA youth cup final if they were to ever get there (BIG IF). Only reason I bring up age is just for an age comparison, not to set some expectation or hype of this group. For all we know, they fail next round and the group will come back stronger as older lads for 2025.
2024: *Lacey (17.1), J. Fletcher (17.2), Fitzgerald (17), Amass (17.2)
*If they play more minutes to be considered part of the team. Lacey should as he's been injured.
So going from this, this group of young players I highlighted for the 2024 side is more similar to the class of 92 core of Butt, Beckham, and Neville in terms of age. Note this isn't about talent. It isn't fair to both sides to make that comparison. This is just about age.
Imagine we have two fletchers and Mainoo in our future midifeld
Back 4Exciting times ahead
Mainoo
Fletcher Fletcher
Front 3
Hopefully a step up from Djemba Djemba midfield
I think you think I'm making the opposite case to the point I was actually making. To re-emphasise, my point was that in United teams good enough to win the FAYC , quite a lot of players will actually make it to the first team or its periphery and that despite the clear gap between U18 and senior football, a surprising portion of players of this calibre will make it either here or at other top clubs (top 2 divisions or equivalent abroad).
No, I was just picking up on your last comment "if this is the best of all those teams" in that post.
The next couple of games for this group 4th place Newcastle away, 2nd place City at home. Them games should be a good opportunity to see quality of this group
What happened to his brother, Tyler? I haven't heard his name ringing as much for the academy as his brother has been doing.
He hasn't gotten a lot of minutes for the u18 because of competition. Fitzgerald is rated more highly, then you have Devaney who is also his age he's competing with, and then there are the older kids like McAllister.
He is so similar to his dad in terms of running style -- a little longer (than normal) stride, languidness, and how his body is before he is about to do a diagonal cross.
Cant say he looked impressive from the little ive seen of him so far. Certainly not close to Jack although he is also a different type of player more similar to his dad
Hip injury at 16. That doesn't sound good.
How many promising youngsters do we sign and then lose for many months due to injury?
It's not just a United thing, for what it's worth.
Both signed their first pro contracts with the club, as expected.
Statistically, 35% of FA Youth Cup players play for United's first team....another 32% play league football somewhere else...and the the remaining 33% either play non-league or stop playing.
So if you play in United's FA Youth Cup team you pretty much have 7/10 chance of making it in the game somewhere. That's very high compared to other clubs.
Is that youth cup winners or just youth cup squad players in general?
The FA youth Cup squads in general.
Can't help feeling there is nepotism at play with these two. Hope i'm wrong and they are both good enough on their own merits.
Jack definitely is.
Why would England pick two players because their father played for Scotland and has no connection to the FA? And how would that then be nepotism?
That’s probably the main reason why he enrolled them first at city instead of United.
If you only look at players who succeed - and not take into consideration how well they succeeded (basically a first-team player and an international are considered equals) - the most successful sides from 1980 to 2010 are:
81/82 United - Blackmore, Whiteside, Garton, Hogg, Hughes and Andy Hill who had a long career including 5 seasons at City
85/86 City -. Hinchcliffe, Brightwell, Moulden, Redmond, White and Lake (Ian Scott even got some matches for City - but just like 20 or so)
91/92 United - no comments necessary
96/97 Leeds - Robinson, Kewell, Smith, McPhail, Woodgate and Alan Maybury had a long career with Hearts and Leicester
97/98 Everton - Jeffers, Dunne, Osman, Cadamarteri, Hibbert and Phil Jevons also had a long career in lower divisions
00/01 Arsenal - Sidwell, Volz, Pennant, Aliadiere, Hoyte - in addition Rohan Ricketts (Spurs and Wolves) and Justin Thomas (Charlton) had long careers in other clubs
02/03 Boro - Turnbull, McMahon, Bates, Davies, Wheater, Morrison (Mostly at WBA), Taylor, Brunt (Mostly at WBA and Sheffield W)
04/05 Southampton - Bale, Walcott, McGoldrick (Sheffield U, Ipswich etc), Lallana, Nathan Dyer, Best (Coventry, Newcastle etc)
I stopped after 2010 because there are still a lot of active players in these FA Youth Cups - so it's hard to compare
Sure but we are the ones who gave them a pro contract not city.
I could care less about England. I'm talking about us signing them to pro contracts. If they've been selected by the national team that's a good sign they are talented though.