US Presidential Election: Tuesday November 6th, 2012

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I had someone just post a rebuttal on FB to my quip about the bubble letter (previous page). Wow. Completely missing the point.

My post was in response to two posters, one that claimed I was in denial and another talking about killing babies and prisoners receiving education (of which the latter I have no idea how that is linked to Obama).

Me: The author is cherry picking some talking points, inserting nonfactual talking points, and outright lies in some talking points.
Prisoners have been able to receive education while incarcerated long before President Obama took office. I leave abortion up to a woman - it is her body. I believe the rich should pay higher taxes, but people like Romney will continue to find tax loopholes and havens.
President Obama hasn't sent the US into an unnecessary war (Iraq) that cost the US 4486 lives of military personnel and another 31965 wounded. That's just the top of the iceberg.
I like GWB as a person but as a president he was terrible (and I supported him twice only to be let down). His unfunded wars and tax cuts lead to the economic meltdown.

Nutter: Pulling the Iraq card huh? We came in and they loved us. Saddam was a problem and we took care of that. Too bad we had to deal with the insurgents(mostly Iranian/Syrian), that screwed the our entire efforts up in the region. GWB did a much better job than Obama has so far.
 
they do live in am alternative universe. many don't understand basic economics. They mention certain expenses as the reason why the defecit is so large without knowing actual numbers.

Like Romney saying he wants to get rid of PBS(Big Bird) which is almost nothing in teh total scheme of things.

For me the bigger take away from these elections is that the Democrats if they turn out, we simply win.

If the GOP remains where they are or move further right...God Forbid..while it will be good for the Democrats...in the long run it will be very bad for the country.

The nation cannot be strong unless it is united. For that to happen, people need to be told the truth about where we are as a country. Be invited into an honest dialogue of how to solve the problems we face as country.

But the right wing media still finds it profitable to be dishonest.
 
Read some of the comments in The Republican Bubble link on the previous page (takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/09/the-republican-bubble/).

This poster hit it spot on.

--Studies of cults found that they are most vocal, driven and extreme _after_ their world view is disproved. Doomsday cults who sat up together all night on the predicted day watching the clock thinking "Why has the world not ended yet?" usually rationalize it somehow and then go on a recruitment spree. They've invested too much to move on, but their position is untenable, so they push all their energy into a desperate mission. After a few years, this slowly, slowly fizzles out and eventually they move on - unless somehow the recruitment binge is successful and they can create a distracting affirming echo-chamber.--
 
MrMarcello said:
Nutter: Pulling the Iraq card huh? We came in and they loved us. Saddam was a problem and we took care of that. Too bad we had to deal with the insurgents(mostly Iranian/Syrian), that screwed the our entire efforts up in the region. GWB did a much better job than Obama has so far.
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Your friend's a moron. They certainly did not 'love' them, most insurgents were actually Iraqi (none of the insurgents were Iranian/Syria), and their efforts were screwed the second the neocons decided it would be a swell idea to start a war there. But I don't need to tell you any of that...why did I even feel the need to reply to that :lol:
 
The republicans are still strong at local levels, even if the presidency will be harder for them to retake. In this supposedly liberal part of California, the rural part of the county only a few miles away just elected a county supervisor from the tea party. And that is to me the biggest electoral divide of all: rural/urban, even more than the racial or gender or age differences in voting patterns.
 
Judging by the comments on FB in regards to that letter to the editor, the GOP may not be able to change their platform in four years. Too many of its supporting base agree with that bubble view. The GOP will need to keep that vote in their pocket so they will probably keep pandering to the religious crowd, the racist sect, the uber rich, etc.
 
Noticed this in a new Axelrod interview [http://www.politico.com/playbook/]:

POLITICO: When did you realize the auto bailout would be politically helpful?

AXELROD: “I was in the room when we made the decision. And I got to tell you, I had the polling data in front of me: Even in Michigan, people were opposed to the auto bailout. I wasn't trying to influence the President's decision, but I felt it was my obligation to tell him what the politics were. In fact, I always joke that I like him so much because he listens to me so little. There are so many decisions on which the polling said one thing and he said another, and this was one. And he said, ‘We're in the middle of the worst recession since the Great Depression. How do you just let the American auto industry collapse? There are a million or more jobs you're going to lose. As long as there's a plausible way forward that has a reasonable chance to work, we ought to pursue it.’ And he did. ... By last spring and summer, [you saw] a real resurgence, ... and you realize this really was a great decision. ... One in eight jobs in Ohio is related to the auto industry, and that was an incredibly important decision for those Ohioans.”

POLITICO: What did the data tell you at the time?

AXELROD: “People were jaundiced about bailouts. ... [The polling] said it would be a disaster.”

POLITICO: Did you tell the President that?

AXELROD: “I was very plain with him. I said, ‘Mr. President, even in Michigan, people are opposed to this, so you need to know that.’ My great and deep admiration for him is in part rooted in the fact that he never turned to me first. I always had to sort of force my way into the conversation, and invariably, he would be polite and listen and then he would go his own way. ... t's not as if he has suicidal political instincts. He's not unaware. ...

“[Similarly, on health care,] in the summer of 2009, when all the demonstrations were going on at the town hall meetings and the numbers were very, very clear that we were taking on some water, I went in to report on this. He had just gotten back from a trip. I'm standing in the Oval Office. He listens to me very respectfully, and then when I'm done he said, ‘Look, I know you're right. I'm sure we're taking on water on this. But I just got back from Green Bay, and I met a woman who was 36 years old, two small children -- her husband and she both have jobs. They have insurance. But she has Stage IV breast cancer now. She's hit her caps. And she's just terrified that she's going to leave her family bankrupt -- that she's going die and leave her family bankrupt. That's not the country we believe in, so let's just keep on fighting.”
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Awesome.
 
And yet half the nation are led to believe universal healthcare, no worry about existing conditions, and not going bankrupt on medical bills are a very bad thing that only leeches and moochers desire.
 
“[Similarly, on health care,] in the summer of 2009, when all the demonstrations were going on at the town hall meetings and the numbers were very, very clear that we were taking on some water, I went in to report on this. He had just gotten back from a trip. I'm standing in the Oval Office. He listens to me very respectfully, and then when I'm done he said, ‘Look, I know you're right. I'm sure we're taking on water on this. But I just got back from Green Bay, and I met a woman who was 36 years old, two small children -- her husband and she both have jobs. They have insurance. But she has Stage IV breast cancer now. She's hit her caps. And she's just terrified that she's going to leave her family bankrupt -- that she's going die and leave her family bankrupt. That's not the country we believe in, so let's just keep on fighting.”
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:lol: so obviously never happened. That's a campaign speech not an actual event.
 
Sorry if it's already been posted, but here's the amount of bias toward either presidential candidate for the major polls.

Sadly Gallup, the most well known, was the most biased.

fivethirtyeight-1110-accuracy2012-1-blog480.png
 
I think all the pollsters underestimated turnout by young people, and minorities. Thus the extreme bias by pollster towards Republicans.

I think Gallup got things wrong badly by voter turnout, and Rasmussen need to include cells phones.
 
gooDevil said:
Has to make you wonder a bit that so many were leaning towards Romney, or maybe I'm paranoid.
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Everyone said 08 was a one off - special circumstances, a young Black man going for the Presidency. A ton of hate for Bush and the republicans etc etc.

4 years later, the pundits thought the 'novelty' had worn off, and a lot of those 1st time voters wouldn't come back this time around - they were wrong.

Like others have said, and the pundits + media have finally started to realize, Obama had his shit down. He kept the core of the 08 election campaign going and added to it in the last 4 years. The entire party machination was geared towards this, and their confidence in retrospect makes perfect sense.
 
Neutral said:
Everyone said 08 was a one off - special circumstances, a young Black man going for the Presidency. A ton of hate for Bush and the republicans etc etc.

4 years later, the pundits thought the 'novelty' had worn off, and a lot of those 1st time voters wouldn't come back this time around - they were wrong.

Like others have said, and the pundits + media have finally started to realize, Obama had his shit down. He kept the core of the 08 election campaign going and added to it in the last 4 years. The entire party machination was geared towards this, and their confidence in retrospect makes perfect sense.
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Then what about the 'likely voters', the fact Nate Silver's meta-poll was dead on, it seems to me the pollsters had the tools to get it right.
 
Fox and Friends were full of conspiracy talk about Petreaus this morning. I caught a few minutes of the show while sitting in the lobby awaiting my doctor's appointment. Doing whatever FNC can be do to link Obama to a coverup.

Has our media always been so conspiracy and witch-hunt driven?
Is it a reflection of our society?
 
MrMarcello said:
Has our media always been so conspiracy and witch-hunt driven?
Is it a reflection of our society?
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Ever since the coming of the 24 HR news channels I reckon.

Simply on an average day there isn't 24 hours worth of news to talk about. So they have to gin up every issue and analyze it from all angles to even have enough to talk about in every cycle.
 
Eventually Fox will become a parody of itself, at which point the propaganda is counter-productive. With all those liberals watching it for the entertainment value, will it evolve anyway? The advertisers will want to reach the whole audience, whoever they are.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Ever since the coming of the 24 HR news channels I reckon.

Simply on an average day there isn't 24 hours worth of news to talk about. So they have to gin up every issue and analyze it from all angles to even have enough to talk about in every cycle.
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Spot on. That's also why it devolves into voyeuristic coverage of things like car chases and the like. It becomes a matter of ratings. It's strange how, for all the time they have in the day, they actually do so few in depth programs. They've got the opportunity to really educate people, but don't seem interested in it.

I could be wrong though. I gave up on 24hr news channels quite a while ago.
 
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