Update to the MUFC Fans share scheme…

It depends upon whether it comes with a commitment to offer regular share releases which would enable supporters to increase ownership stake over time, and to a level that would eventually reach a significant stake. It also needs to ensure that actual fans are buying the shares and not speculators and pension fund managers etc

It's right to be sceptical - I am myself, but we do not yet have enough details.
 
Rood said:
Lots of cynicism here, which I can understand since the Glazers have never done anything before apart from look after their own interests

But as usual with the business side, most of the naysayers don't actually understand what is on offer here. I bet most posting negative comments haven't even bothered to read the statement.
It's actually great news that the fans will be offered shares with the same voting rights as the Glazers - these are much more valuable than the shares currently available in the US stock market and will give the fans some say in what's happening at the club

Yes it's a small amount but I see this as a first step towards something bigger

Still it's early days and we await details of how much these will be sold for and how exactly they will make sure these are only sold to fans

If you are interested in knowing more of the real details then register here: https://www.signforunited.org/
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Love this. So because people can see it as the token gesture that it is, they don't understand it.

What control would anyone have with a tiny share percentage? This is just another avenue for them to offload their holdings since we saw that when one of them sold a substantial chunk recently, it has to be at a discount.

There's nothing concrete in there much more beyond what we already know. At the same time, the football club is going down the drain and every year of inaction will mean more money is needed in the future to catch up.

That capital investment can come from such share sales but we know the Glazers will grab and dash once they've reached the point at which the decline has set in permanently.
 
Rightnr said:
Love this. So because people can see it as the token gesture that it is, they don't understand it.

What control would anyone have with a tiny share percentage? This is just another avenue for them to offload their holdings since we saw that when one of them sold a substantial chunk recently, it has to be at a discount.

There's nothing concrete in there much more beyond what we already know. At the same time, the football club is going down the drain and every year of inaction will mean more money is needed in the future to catch up.

That capital investment can come from such share sales but we know the Glazers will grab and dash once they've reached the point at which the decline has set in permanently.
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Well I could quote half the posts in this thread which prove that many either didnt read or didnt understand the statement - obviously that doesnt go for everyone

And yes there is new and very positive concrete info:
" The proposed share scheme would involve a new class of fan shares each with the same high-vote rights as the B shares held by the Glazer family."

But it is fair to be sceptical and until we see the details Im not getting too excited
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Like clockwork.

Given the DoF rumour can't reignite now Murtough has a similar role, you can expect something about 'Ole searching for an experienced tactical coach to add to his backroom staff' to be released soon, then something vague about OT extension and the railway bridge and then Carrington upgrades.
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Carrington upgrades were anounced in September,

Meetings were held in October to discuss the potential for new stadium improvements, including possible expansion.

These things have been discussed and worked on for ages, don't think theres anything particularly nefarious about the timing to release information about these things to be honest, considering alot of the work onm these things has altready been done!
 
Champ said:
Carrington upgrades were anounced in September,

Meetings were held in October to discuss the potential for new stadium improvements, including possible expansion.

These things have been discussed and worked on for ages, don't think theres anything particularly nefarious about the timing to release information about these things to be honest, considering alot of the work onm these things has altready been done!
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They were also done many times before that, that's the point. It's usually around periods of discontent and bad form. DoF rumour was their go-to but that one is done now.
 
Not sure what positive people are finding here. The value of the shares is less than half the value of the dividend Glazers pay themselves from the club's coffers. It is just another token symbolism.

If he is really has the club's best interests in mind, he should do an FPO which I am pretty sure will be oversubscribed and invest in Old Trafford. He wouldn't do that because that would dilute his shared without much hope for an upside.

People saying that this is a good first step is nonsense. If he really cares, that's the path he would take. Not give alms to fans and then charge them for it.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
They were also done many times before that, that's the point. It's usually around periods of discontent and bad form. DoF rumour was their go-to but that one is done now.
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Whilst I don't deny the owners would release 'good' news in times of struggles, that stands to reason,

With this case, in September when the Carrington upgrades were announced (and bearing in mind planning applications were already submitted suggesting work was already ongoing), we were riding high and unbeaten!

So this isn't always the case,
 
Champ said:
Whilst I don't deny the owners would release 'good' news in times of struggles, that stands to reason,

With this case, in September when the Carrington upgrades were announced (and bearing in mind planning applications were already submitted suggesting work was already ongoing), we were riding high and unbeaten!

So this isn't always the case,
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Yep, which is why I said usually. I guess it's more noticeable with our club given we've not been where we wanted to be for some time.
 
MUFC OK said:
Unbelievable isn't it.. :lol: I do wonder how much of that is just putting on a brave face in front of Liverpool and City fans though.
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Those Yankees love it when some of our fans are still singing his name despite being mocked to buggery
 
Rood said:
Well I could quote half the posts in this thread which prove that many either didnt read or didnt understand the statement - obviously that doesnt go for everyone

And yes there is new and very positive concrete info:
" The proposed share scheme would involve a new class of fan shares each with the same high-vote rights as the B shares held by the Glazer family."

But it is fair to be sceptical and until we see the details Im not getting too excited
Click to expand...
Fair enough
 
So how does someone become a member of MUST in order to buy shares out of curiosity?
 
Rood said:
Well I could quote half the posts in this thread which prove that many either didnt read or didnt understand the statement - obviously that doesnt go for everyone

And yes there is new and very positive concrete info:
" The proposed share scheme would involve a new class of fan shares each with the same high-vote rights as the B shares held by the Glazer family."

But it is fair to be sceptical and until we see the details Im not getting too excited
Click to expand...
High vote rights or not, if the fans own so few of the overall shares with voting rights, what actual voice do they have? Sounds like they might get to raise an agenda item at the AGM at most.
 
MUST update -


As you might have seen, the Club issued an update yesteday on progress towards setting up the Supporter Share Ownership scheme. Their update is HERE and it was covered by Sky News HERE.

As you all know, the setting up of a scheme to allow supporters to build up a stake in the club we love has been the number one objective of MUST since day one. Because no-one loves this club more than our fans do, and we know that the fans are the best custodians of its future.

Since the summer, we have been involved in lengthy and detailed discussions with the club about what the scheme ought to look like. It's fair to say that this process has taken longer than expected - this is partly because the issues are complicated, but also partly because we are determined to drive a hard bargain. We have been clear from day one, for instance, that supporter shares must have the same voting rights as Glazer shares. That's a red line for us, and we have never wavered from it.

As the club said today, we've made good progress on those discussions and they're now well advanced. They've also confirmed that they see the potential for this to be an ongoing scheme which builds over time. Because there is no point in having a one-off issue of shares and then never again. In fact the size of that first issue isn't the most important thing. What we want is a long-term programme to allow fans to buy a progressively greater stake in our club. The first share issue will be about setting the precedent, demonstrating that the demand is there, and showing the 'proof of concept' works.

We all see some of the silly nonsense on social media about this share issue claiming it means MUST has 'sold out' or even that the organisation will profit from the scheme. What rubbish. A supporter share scheme has been our number one ask since the day dot. Securing just what you're after is not selling out - it's called meeting your objectives. And the idea that either any individuals or the organisation will profit from the scheme is completely, categorically untrue.

We're not quite there yet with the club. There are details to be ironed-out. But we are getting there. And if we do get there, this will be a historic moment in the story of our club. We will be in the process of restoring a stake in the ownership of Manchester United back to the people who care about it most - us, the fans.

Finally, if a scheme is agreed, the decision-makers on whether this happens is not the MUST Board. It is you, the Members. We will hold a Members Ballot and abide by the result. We will propose a scheme to you, but it is your call as to whether it goes ahead or not.

As soon as there is further news, we will be right back in touch with an update.
 
A couple of clarifications, as far as I understand it:

1. the publicly-traded shares are Class A, while these would be Class B - with 10x the voting rights, same as Glazer shares. So this is an attempt to partially address the issue created by having two share classes.

2. All share classes share equally in the economic rights of the club. So if dividends are paid, all shares receive a proportional share.

3. A share sale does not create revenue or dividends. Instead this is a sale of a part ownership in the club. If it is Glazer stock being sold, then the Glazers will receive less of a payout when they do eventually sell the rest. If it is new stock being sold, then the cash goes to the club, increasing the cash assets that the club owns, but proportionally diluting the percentage ownership of all pre-exisitng shareholders.

Share Dilution Example: If Company is worth $10 million (for example it has $10 million in the bank and no other assets or liabilities), and has 10 million shares issued, each share is worth $1. If Company issues another 10 million shares at $1 each, then Company now has $20 million in net assets, but also now has 20 million shares issued. No value has been created or lost by either party PROVIDED that the share sale has been done at a fair price.

4. Unrelated, but was hoping to dispell once and for all the notion that material announcements can only be made when the stock market is open. In fact, the only rule is that material announcements have got to be made to everyone, enabling everyone to be aware of that information before trading. Usually that means that material information is actually announced when the stock market is CLOSED, giving everyone sufficient time to see it. But in fact, if you announce to "everyone" simultaneously, especially to public spaces, then you can even announce it during the trading day. This routinely happens for companies that, like MUFC, trade in a time zone that is different from the operational base, or that trade on multiple exchanges. In those cases, posting to the SEC website is fine, making announcements on a public call while the stock is trading is fine, or even posting only to the company's investor relations site can happen.
 
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What is the highest percentage of the overall shares that the club would be willing to allow the fans buy, and is there a way to make them stick to that promise legally?

Sorry I have no idea how this works, but feel like if these two factors aren't confirmed then this scheme is not worth it, to me anyway.
 
Speako said:
MUST update -


As you might have seen, the Club issued an update yesteday on progress towards setting up the Supporter Share Ownership scheme. Their update is HERE and it was covered by Sky News HERE.

As you all know, the setting up of a scheme to allow supporters to build up a stake in the club we love has been the number one objective of MUST since day one. Because no-one loves this club more than our fans do, and we know that the fans are the best custodians of its future.

Since the summer, we have been involved in lengthy and detailed discussions with the club about what the scheme ought to look like. It's fair to say that this process has taken longer than expected - this is partly because the issues are complicated, but also partly because we are determined to drive a hard bargain. We have been clear from day one, for instance, that supporter shares must have the same voting rights as Glazer shares. That's a red line for us, and we have never wavered from it.

As the club said today, we've made good progress on those discussions and they're now well advanced. They've also confirmed that they see the potential for this to be an ongoing scheme which builds over time. Because there is no point in having a one-off issue of shares and then never again. In fact the size of that first issue isn't the most important thing. What we want is a long-term programme to allow fans to buy a progressively greater stake in our club. The first share issue will be about setting the precedent, demonstrating that the demand is there, and showing the 'proof of concept' works.

We all see some of the silly nonsense on social media about this share issue claiming it means MUST has 'sold out' or even that the organisation will profit from the scheme. What rubbish. A supporter share scheme has been our number one ask since the day dot. Securing just what you're after is not selling out - it's called meeting your objectives. And the idea that either any individuals or the organisation will profit from the scheme is completely, categorically untrue.

We're not quite there yet with the club. There are details to be ironed-out. But we are getting there. And if we do get there, this will be a historic moment in the story of our club. We will be in the process of restoring a stake in the ownership of Manchester United back to the people who care about it most - us, the fans.

Finally, if a scheme is agreed, the decision-makers on whether this happens is not the MUST Board. It is you, the Members. We will hold a Members Ballot and abide by the result. We will propose a scheme to you, but it is your call as to whether it goes ahead or not.

As soon as there is further news, we will be right back in touch with an update.
Click to expand...

Clearly in bed with the clubs owners to believe anything positive will come from this
 
Yeah, I don't trust MUST. It also sounds like nothing's agreed and the club is trying to make this out to have progressed a lot more than it actually has. Quelle surprise there.
 
Rood said:
Lots of cynicism here, which I can understand since the Glazers have never done anything before apart from look after their own interests

But as usual with the business side, most of the naysayers don't actually understand what is on offer here. I bet most posting negative comments haven't even bothered to read the statement.
It's actually great news that the fans will be offered shares with the same voting rights as the Glazers - these are much more valuable than the shares currently available in the US stock market and will give the fans some say in what's happening at the club

Yes it's a small amount but I see this as a first step towards something bigger

Still it's early days and we await details of how much these will be sold for and how exactly they will make sure these are only sold to fans

If you are interested in knowing more of the real details then register here: https://www.signforunited.org/
Click to expand...

Agreed, cheers for the link. Hadnt seen that posted here, have signed up now.
 
Robertd0803 said:
So how does someone become a member of MUST in order to buy shares out of curiosity?
Click to expand...

MUST have their own website which I'm sure you can find (I think they even have a free membership option for those who just want to get newsletters) but this is the specific one for those interested in the shares
https://www.signforunited.org/


Dans said:
High vote rights or not, if the fans own so few of the overall shares with voting rights, what actual voice do they have? Sounds like they might get to raise an agenda item at the AGM at most.
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Which is already better than the current situation

The new Fan's Forum will actually give fans more voice than the shares which is more a long term plan
 
croadyman said:
Those Yankees love it when some of our fans are still singing his name despite being mocked to buggery
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It's funny how some perceive the 'real fans' to be the ones who don't call out standards or have a burning desire to win things. This club will always be about winning to me. When it's not good enough - I'll always say.
 
I don't know too much about the shareholding of Man United but I just assume that your owners will never dilute their overall control to less than 75% so there's pretty much no point in fans buying the shares, unless they want to treat it as a proper personal investment opportunity and look to make a profit if the club eventually gets sold and receive any dividends that are issued.
 
Who would be able to buy shares? Season ticket holders fans? MUST registered fans? Manchester United forum users? Redcafe muppets?
 
P-Ro said:
I don't know too much about the shareholding of Man United but I just assume that your owners will never dilute their overall control to less than 75% so there's pretty much no point in fans buying the shares, unless they want to treat it as a proper personal investment opportunity and look to make a profit if the club eventually gets sold and receive any dividends that are issued.
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The money raised goes to the club and it’s use gets approved by the fan advisory board - I’d argue there is a point in taking 25% of the club off the glazers, put into the hands of the fans and seeing the money raised not go to the glazers but instead be invested into the club. Now, the initial filing is only for 0.4% of the club and 1.1% voting rights, it’ll be interesting to see how much more they’re willing to cede but it’s definitely a start.
 
Mickeza said:
The money raised goes to the club and it’s use gets approved by the fan advisory board - I’d argue there is a point in taking 25% of the club off the glazers, put into the hands of the fans and seeing the money raised not go to the glazers but instead be invested into the club. Now, the initial filing is only for 0.4% of the club and 1.1% voting rights, it’ll be interesting to see how much more they’re willing to cede but it’s definitely a start.
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Sounds like asking the fans for some charity money with conditions attached. Give us a load of money which we aren't prepared to spend ourselves and we'll allow you control over how you spend it.
 
Mickeza said:
The money raised goes to the club and it’s use gets approved by the fan advisory board - I’d argue there is a point in taking 25% of the club off the glazers, put into the hands of the fans and seeing the money raised not go to the glazers but instead be invested into the club. Now, the initial filing is only for 0.4% of the club and 1.1% voting rights, it’ll be interesting to see how much more they’re willing to cede but it’s definitely a start.
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Depends - let’s say we buy the full amount, does that count as profit for the club and therefore allow the Glazer’s to withdraw a larger dividend?
 
P-Ro said:
Sounds like asking the fans for some charity money with conditions attached. Give us a load of money which we aren't prepared to spend ourselves and we'll allow you control over how you spend it.
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What? I didn’t realise when I give to the Red Cross I own part of the Red Cross. What an insane take. The alternative is the money goes to the owners.
 
Mickeza said:
What? I didn’t realise when I give to the Red Cross I own part of the Red Cross. What an insane take. The alternative is the money goes to the owners.
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***With conditions attached***

The insane take is that you seem to think that this is progress.
 
Mickeza said:
The money raised goes to the club and it’s use gets approved by the fan advisory board - I’d argue there is a point in taking 25% of the club off the glazers, put into the hands of the fans and seeing the money raised not go to the glazers but instead be invested into the club. Now, the initial filing is only for 0.4% of the club and 1.1% voting rights, it’ll be interesting to see how much more they’re willing to cede but it’s definitely a start.
Click to expand...
The money going to the club may easily be the money going to pay off their own debt. It is still going to the club but serving a purpose, I suppose, most do not put into their top 3 of how to spend that money...
 
P-Ro said:
***With conditions attached***

The insane take is that you seem to think that this is progress.
Click to expand...
What? The glazers giving up part of the club, it going into the hands of fans and them not earning a penny from it? Yes. Of course it’s fecking progress. Go wank over your new billionaire owner in front of your Roman poster.
 
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