We are moving towards being a team who are known as weak in the air. Spurs played to that today with their set pieces
United's Endless Set Piece Struggles - 22/23 Edition
- Thread starter bosnian_red
- Start date
Set Pieces? What are they?
Not something our coaching staff have heard of anyway.
Honestly, our corners and free kick plays are brutal, the ball rarely clears the first man and defensively we always appear out numbered and out muscled in our own box.
Not something our coaching staff have heard of anyway.
Honestly, our corners and free kick plays are brutal, the ball rarely clears the first man and defensively we always appear out numbered and out muscled in our own box.
Behave, Martinez is actually one of the few players i can remember scoring with his head from a set piece. The fact one of our tallest players Rashford never goes into the box for set pieces incase he has to head it. Taking the " elf and safety " briefings too serious.
Sure, but we also don't need to be top in set pieces. Preferably not being relegation standard would improve us a feck ton. Newcastle made top 4 last season almost entirely on set piece impact. Set piece attacking and defending difference is basically the reason why Arsenal is a borderline title challenger and not a top 4 challenger, and they aren't even a big team.
Well, whatever Eric Ramsay's done since joining the club hasn't worked, clearly. I still think defending set pieces largely boils down to things besides coaching though.
Sure. But both Arsenal and Newcastle have a bunch of players who are very good in the air. We have literally nobody. Other than Casemiro anyway. Maybe Varane, at a push?
EDIT: Not Varane. 59th centile for aerials won.
I'd expect McTominay to be decent and thought we handled set pieces better after he came on. I think dalot comes out as above average last time i checked his stats.
We used to be really dependent on Matic too.
I never thought I'd miss the days we had Phil Jones on corner duty.
I'd honestly just get our defenders to stay back in our own half and take the corner short, becsuse we're more likely to get hit on the counter and concede from our corners than we are to actually score from one. Still have nightmares thinking about that Demba Ba goal in the CL a few seasons ago and we somehow managed to concede almost exactly the same goal against Forest this season. As a club we really just don't learn.
I'd honestly just get our defenders to stay back in our own half and take the corner short, becsuse we're more likely to get hit on the counter and concede from our corners than we are to actually score from one. Still have nightmares thinking about that Demba Ba goal in the CL a few seasons ago and we somehow managed to concede almost exactly the same goal against Forest this season. As a club we really just don't learn.
There isn't much more to it I'm afraid. Bruno set pieces are not only not accurate, but also the ball moves so slowly that it's just easy to defend against.
Also, seems like we have three players that can actually head the ball - Casemiro, McTominay and Maguire (and this fella can't even shoot). I think the rest of our defense is alright at it, but if you they keep facing great set-pieces like today, it's inevitable to lose a duel every once in a while.
The midfield of Mainoo, Eriksen and Bruno is one of the weakest in the league physically.
Rashford shies from duels, and I don't remember when was the last time I saw Hojlund or Garnacho heading a ball.
And people complain about coaching?
The back 5 is not a problem IMO, it's the rest of the team that are piss poor in the air. We'll be better with Casemiro and Martinez. And possibly with Mount taking corners, if he ever gets back that is.
That's weirdly low for Varane, his whole career he was absolutely elite with that. Maguire too, who has played plenty this season. It's also a reason why I guess Mctominay has been in this season. Last season. 92nd percentile. Going to guess it's small sample size and some weird situations related as that's always been a strength of his.
Looking at Arsenal's team last season.. did they really have much better players in the air than us? Gabriel and Saliba vs Varane and Casemiro as the main 2... Partey vs Weghorst... Not like Saka, Martinelli, Odegaard, Zinchenko do anything from set pieces. I don't think they have anything special in terms of players for aerial duels. It's coaching focus IMO why they've consistently very good with set pieces at both ends.
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Mainoo is actually very good in the air - 88th percentile among midfielders. He's also physically very strong. Casemiro in for Eriksen will obviously help. Martinez in for Evans will definitely not help us from set piece defending, as good as he is that's not his strength and it is a strength for Evans.
Hojlund is fine. Garnacho and Rashford don't even play key defensive roles, Garnacho is on the edge of the box and Rashford is often waiting for a counter. You don't need all 11 guys in the box.
Dalot is very good in the air for a full back, Shaw is good, Varane, Evans, Maguire all excellent in that aspect, Casemiro excellent, McTominay decent enough from a "getting his head on the ball" aspect. We have enough guys who are good in the air individually where our stats should not be relegation standard. Its 100% coaching as the reason why a team like Arsenal is among the strongest in the league with set pieces and why we are in the bottom 3 in all metrics.
Just looking at defensive stats, how many dead ball passes have ended in shots this season for opposition teams. We are 19th in the league, Spurs are 20th, Arsenal are top, City 2nd, Brentford 3rd, Brighton 4th. Do what you want with anything else, until we fix our coaching on set pieces, we will struggle to improve
Being shit at set pieces, particularly in attack, goes right back to Fergie's time. Maybe we've just had too many former players coaching and they don't know any better, maybe that's bollocks, but whatever the reason, shit we are, and have been for a long time.
We have a squad of many shorter players. It's not a coincidence.
We have had 134 corners this season. If we were even average at them we should have scored 20 or so goals. The goals to corners ratio is 13% I believe.
But our piss poor return reflects the biggest problem we have with this current team in my opinion ie lack of guts, desire, passion for the club.
It takes guts to get your head on the end of a corner in a meaningful way. Remember Steve Bruce? Robbo? Keane? Pally? Kevin Moran?
It also helps if your delivery is fast and accurate. And if you actually practice the set piece which I highly doubt.
Paul Scholes and Patrice Evra scored from corners for us. Not the the tallest guys I'm sure you will agree.
But our piss poor return reflects the biggest problem we have with this current team in my opinion ie lack of guts, desire, passion for the club.
It takes guts to get your head on the end of a corner in a meaningful way. Remember Steve Bruce? Robbo? Keane? Pally? Kevin Moran?
It also helps if your delivery is fast and accurate. And if you actually practice the set piece which I highly doubt.
Paul Scholes and Patrice Evra scored from corners for us. Not the the tallest guys I'm sure you will agree.
Recruitment and having a distinct style. Spurs were a lot more aggressive than us without half their team. It’s worrying to see us getting bullied around the pitch. Hopefully Casemiro and Martinez bring back some stability
Set pieces? We are absolutely shocking! I only really realised how crazy it is Rashford not being in around the box on a set piece is! Doesn’t he want to score goals? Rebounds and whatnot? I also despise the out-swinging corners. When did Bruno’s delivery get so bad? We need another big strong player or two who aren’t McT and that’s not including replacing Varane and Casemiro when they go. Constant rebuild… I bet this Ramsey lad would go to another club and look like a genius. There’s just something broken here.
Corner success rate is something like 2-4%... 20 goals from corners is absurd
That's one of those things where everyone "thinks" they are shit at set pieces, but in reality we were consistently pretty decent at them under Sir Alex in terms of output and defending. There will be a few elite clubs at them who focus exclusively on them, a few shit clubs and then a big chunk who rotate around based on variance. That's fine to be in that group. That's where we were under Sir Alex. Right now we are in the relegation tier with them which is unacceptable.
Bruno just wastes so many free kicks in good positions with ridiculous balls. Can’t remember him ever scoring but tons of balls over the bar, out of play, hit the wall etc. No way he should still be taking shots from free kicks, it’s just a waste of an opportunit.
I admit I questioned the stat myself. My point stands nonetheless.
The problem is our players defend like they've seen the stat that corners are a sub 5% success rate so they don't bother jumping
Weak in the air and weak on the ground. Just weak and soft everywhere with a loser mentality. Our arsenalification is complete.
Said this before but don't mind mentioning it again.
We even struggled in aerial battles when we had this lot
Smalling 6'4 Ibra 6'5 Pogba 6'3? Fellaini 6'4 etc.
Can only be lack of desire and effort and doesn't look like changing anytime soon.
We even struggled in aerial battles when we had this lot
Smalling 6'4 Ibra 6'5 Pogba 6'3? Fellaini 6'4 etc.
Can only be lack of desire and effort and doesn't look like changing anytime soon.
There used to be a line on the old Football Manager games used to describe the traits of certain players that said "lacks the mentality to win aerial duels" or something to that effect and its applicable here.
Being tall is meaningless if you hesitate as the ball is delivered or you half-heartedly attack it. We have nobody that I would describe as actually good in the air, bar maybe Maguire and Dalot.
McTominay and Varane are perfect examples of players who win some headers because they are tall, but are not "good" in the air.
Being tall is meaningless if you hesitate as the ball is delivered or you half-heartedly attack it. We have nobody that I would describe as actually good in the air, bar maybe Maguire and Dalot.
McTominay and Varane are perfect examples of players who win some headers because they are tall, but are not "good" in the air.
Hojlund is a big lad, Rashford is talk too. There’s no excuse.
wazza has time on his hands, get him in there to work on headers with the strikers.
wazza has time on his hands, get him in there to work on headers with the strikers.